Linux for iPod Matures 469
elinenbe writes "The Linux on iPod Project has just crossed a milestone. Currently their firmware works on all ipod models other then the new mini. Sound plays and for many people it has more features then the original iPod firmware!"
There's even a port of the 2.6 kernel... (Score:5, Informative)
Wired has an article [wired.com] on this, too.
Re:There's even a port of the 2.6 kernel... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There's even a port of the 2.6 kernel... (Score:5, Funny)
Everything else appears th be just fine though...
Re:There's even a port of the 2.6 kernel... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There's even a port of the 2.6 kernel... (Score:3, Funny)
A tcsh prompt.
Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:3, Informative)
Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess Jobs was right in saying that Apple's competetiors don't "ge
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Interesting)
Why? Because I walk everywhere I go, and the mini is small enough that it fits (when clipped into my jean pocket) above my pager and cell phone. Plus, it's just damn cool. And 4 days of music is more than i need on me at any one time.
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:5, Funny)
if programming actually pays your bills, you're not a typical
(ducks)
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Insightful)
The iPod, like most things, is not priced based on it's use or exchange value, just it's sign exchange value.
Look at the ads for the iPod. They're just a bunch of silhouettes of girls and guys with hip hair cuts holding their iPods over a background of nouveau-retro-colo
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, and even Joe Satriani digs that Darkness tune.
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:4, Interesting)
I've heard some Satch(at least, I have Live in San Fran buried somewhere, I think I've heard more), but he's hardly a true artist is the musical sense. He's more a guitar acrobat. Perhaps he makes an art out of his acrobatics(or some music-acobatic hybrid), but I wouldn't say he makes much of an art out the music itself. There's a world of difference in relation to the art of the actual music between someone like Mr. Satriani and, say, Pere Ubu. I would stress the difference between musicianship and musicality. And I've never heard the Darkness, actually.
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:5, Insightful)
And all without having to switch batteries or analog tapes.
If cost was all anyone cared about, Mercedes would be out of business.
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:5, Insightful)
Harley Davidson.
The CEO of harley davidson once said "we are not a motorcycle company, we are a fashion company". People don't buy harleys because they want a good bike they get one because they think it makes them cool and rebellious. This despite the fact 99% of harley owners are doctors, lawyers, assorted actors and politicians. What the heck put on a harley shirt, harley leathers, harley helmet, get on your harley and go to sturgis and hang out with all the other people wearing the exact same clothing and riding the same bikes to prove you are different and cool.
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Funny)
People don't buy harleys because they want a good bike they get one because they think it makes them cool and rebellious.
Fuck that belt-driven piece of shit. So much power loss, and it makes the single part that connects the engine to the drive wheel a regular maintenance replacement. Give me anything else, a chain, (preferably) a shaft, but not that belt. Harley owners are frequently proud of that belt. Can't figure out why, it's the single most annoying point of failure on those bikes.
I can make an
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Interesting)
No, you can't make any bike sound like a Harley, unless you don't know what the Harley sound is. A big chunk of that sound is from the angle seperating the clinders, and the sound is copyrighted. You are breaking teh law if you ever sell that bike that you made to "sound like a harley", which probaly just means "loud" to the non-mechanic's ears (even a quiet Harley sounds like a Harley).
Regarding the "belt-drive" - well, if you like a harsh ride on your "comfy cruiser" then sure, go with a ch
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Informative)
You're right on all those technical points but...
I'm sorry to say that the Harley Davidson company doesnot hold a copyright on the sound. They did try to Trademark it back in the 90's but gave up on that for two reasons.
1. its pretty much impossible to trademark a sound
2. The metric cruisers didn't really try to copy the sound (they produced engines than were in tune) and so lost the commercial incentive to protect the "sound".
But right on abou the belt
Rethin
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as a biker, riding a Harley is a unique experience.
Its powerfull, its loud, it shakes the earth.
And people get out of your damn way.
Now, if you don't ride, you can't understand the value of that, but normal bikes are ignored by cars, they change lanes to a lane where you are, they
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Its all about aesthetics (Score:3, Insightful)
Karma? Oh woe, oh woe (Score:5, Informative)
Once I RMA this sucker for the 3rd time I will sell it and pick up the iRiver iHP-120 [iriveramerica.com] 20 gigs of OGG, WMA, MP3, WAV, plus a remote with LCD, FM radio tuner, and can record into WAV or MP3 in realtime from a built-in mic or stereo line-in. Pretty kickass. Sure the Karma is about $75 cheaper, but for a unit that WORKS, it's worth it.
Plus, the Karma only has a 90 day warrantee. The iRiver has a 1-year warrantee.
Re:Karma? Oh woe, oh woe (Score:5, Informative)
I just got back my third karma today, and it had a sticker saying, "We will respect your initial warranty, but this unit does not come with an additional warranty." Of course, by this point they've had my karma longer than I have (it took 1.5 months to get the second replacement), and the original warranty has expired. Plus, I think it's illegal not to give a warranty on RMA'd products.
I like that the Karma supports oggs, and it's a fairly nice device, but it's pretty fragile (two external moving parts), and the RMA service is _horrible_!
A mini Karma Review (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of people are getting Hard Drive errors with their Karmas. I just got mine back from Warranty replacement (after a month-and-a-half wait and plenty of complaining). Mine broke after 2 weeks of use. Apparently, according to the folks at the Riovolution Forum [riovolution.com] a lot of people have had this problem (in the same time frame) and are currently going through Hell getting a replacement. I'm surprised I got mine so quickly.
Aside from that, I'm liking the Karma a lot. I just hope my rep
try reading the FAQ (Score:2, Informative)
The Tremor player is running at about 80% real-time. Apparently an update is on the way so hopefully that will provide some speed-up.
Re:Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh man that tickles my linux bone (Score:5, Funny)
If only they could get the OGG player to play at 150% speed, then all music would be chipmunk music...
Command line? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Command line? (Score:5, Informative)
How do you use a command line interface on an ipod?
If you read the documentation, it says when the iPod boots the Linux kernel it will automatically configure its local ethernet device (ethernet over firewire/IEEE1394) and then starts inetd so that network connections via telnet may be made.
The default configuration is for the iPod to use 192.10.1.2 and to allow telnet connections. The default address may be changed by editing the /etc/rc script.
Re:Command line? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Command line? (Score:2)
Re:Command line? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Command line? (Score:4, Interesting)
I use Linux on a server for FLAC/MP3 serving with Slimserver from slim devices. The UI in that case is a simple web interface, no command line required. It does the job it's supposed to do, and I don't much have to care what else it does. Windows in that situation would be too complicated and perhaps not capable of the very long uptimes my Linux box gets.
On the iPod, it's a lot like the Apple iPod UI - task oriented, simple functions that do one thing well - or at least it will be when it's polished. Which is fine, I don't much care if Apple patent or copyright or sue or whatever. As long as I get to have menu items like "Capture from CF" and "Record" without buying garbage like the Belkin accessories that enable those functions (the Belkin CF reader should NOT be sold. It is incomplete, useless with RAW images). To think that Linux is going to let me use my iPod in more useful ways is awesome.
It's the first Linux project I've ever thought I could be interested in contributing to. Well done guys! (and let's not forget the ucLinux people, who have been working for quite some time to get where they are.)
Just dandy... now I can...? (Score:2, Insightful)
Honestly, I know this projects are mostly for shits & giggles, but the iPod seems to be about the least-appropriate MP3 player to port Linux too. You're paying a premium for software design & integration with the iPod. Linux on the Dell version would seem to be a more natural fit.
Re:Just dandy... now I can...? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Just dandy... now I can...? (Score:5, Funny)
Back in my day, we had no fancy shmancy ipods to wear around the house. We just turned the volume on the stereo up.
Re:Just dandy... now I can...? (Score:5, Funny)
And with the AAC announcment... (Score:4, Funny)
Sighs... (Score:5, Funny)
On an MP3 player, the ability to run EMACS is not a feature. The lack of music-playing ability also seems like a pitfall.
Re:Sighs... (Score:4, Funny)
(ducks)
Say what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Seems to me everything is very basic, unless you count the ability to browse by file a new feature, but the datbase accessibility of the original firmware is conspicuously missing.
Still...I like it. The iPod has a usb bus. A firewire bus. Throughput is an issue, but I imagine some hotplug devices will get support.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Say what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux on an iPod? (Score:5, Funny)
Linux on an iPod? Er, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux on an iPod? Er, why? (Score:2)
Re:Linux on an iPod? Er, why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Linux on an iPod? Er, why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Linux on an iPod? Er, why? (Score:3, Interesting)
* add SIDPLAY and MOD/XM support so that one can enjoy the full MOD galore without first going through the arduous task of converting them to AAC or MP#
* implement a pitch control with the wheel (so I can do some actual dj'ing on the device, or, rather, on 2 devices
what's more? there must be a lot more features I want to have. from file formats to fixing stupidities of the existing software
Lots of possibilities (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lots of possibilities (Score:2, Funny)
You are gonna need one hell of an firewire extension cord when you are on the go...
Web servers (Score:2)
Re:Lots of possibilities (Score:2)
It is like turning a G4 Cube into an aquarium, only worse. No, maybe it is like running Linux on a iBook. Or having the leather seats in your Porche replaced with vinyl. It is one of those things that is so bad, the whole "because I can" argument doesn't even hold up.
Re:Lots of possibilities (Score:2)
Also the last Zaurus I saw was $600. How much are they now?
Re:Lots of possibilities (Score:4, Insightful)
1) The iPod does not have any networking capabilities. You'd have to plug it in to a slave device to get this functionality, and in doing so you'd still have little more than a hard drive.
2) If you really want to waste your time making a palm sized file or webserver, you'd be much better off with a pocket PC or miniATX machine. Seeing as these already operate as a web/file server in the palm of your hand, really you add nothing by doing the same with an iPod.
3) WTF do you want a portable file server for in the first place? File servers are supposed to be STATIONARY. That's why they're servers...so they can efficiently deliver you files without you having to get up! If the fucking thing is a portable hard drive already, you'd be much better off just copying files from it. The extra overhead and memory cost are just going to slow down the transfer, which would be inefficient to start with considering the kludges you'd have to pull to get the thing on the network (without slaving it to a PC).
4) Anybody who thinks that an inefficient, clunky interface podged onto an MP3 devices just to make it a webserver is cool should really consider devoting some of their energy to real problems in computing.
Re:Lots of possibilities (Score:2, Funny)
Two Words - Stereo Recording (Score:5, Interesting)
Who put Tux into that little box? (Score:5, Funny)
Next generation power for iPods.. Tux running on an exercise wheel?
Re:Who put Tux into that little box? (Score:3, Funny)
Why not use these skills for something useful ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux on an Ipod is basically pointless. Especially on this very device, which is what hip people [penny-arcade.com] buy in the first place (don't get me wrong, I have one). That doesn't mean people can't tweak with it, but it's not that useful, since the geek population using iPods is outnumbered by the common consumers.
On the other hand, what about making a file browser that allow you to go through the files you stored on your pod ? I usually store isos, books, games, and the like on my 30Gb, and I really would like to be able to rename, delete, transfer to my comp directly from the iPod...
Of course, I could move my ass, but I'm not a techie. My 2 cents.
Regards,
jdif
Linux on something that small? (Score:2)
When they start putting linux in toasters, that will be useless, but this could actually evolve into something interesting as an "iPod customization pack"
Re:Linux on something that small? (Score:2, Informative)
ipodLinux is based on uClinux [uclinux.org], which is a version of Linux that runs on processors without an MMU (Memory Management Unit).
The research group [uq.edu.au] where I work is quite involved in embedded linux work. Last year I ported the Linux kernel [uq.edu.au] to an FPGA-based processor called Microblaze. I'm now doing all sorts of fun stuff involving dynamically self-modifying hardware and other bizarro stuff. All good fun.
uClinux is running in something like 20 million devices, r
Linux in a shoestring! :) (Score:2)
You just wait.
It'll be able to download settings for all your foods and intelligently decide what you're giving it, and how long to cook it.
It isn't as far-fetched as it sounds.
Obligatory Emacs Comment (Score:2, Funny)
An Excellent Idea, But... (Score:2)
Until then it'll be just us regular Slashdotters and geeks who will have any interest at all in this sort of thing. I still won't put it on, for the pure fact that it won't serve me well in day-to-day purposes, though it is cool.
it plays SOUND? .... wow, what's next? (Score:4, Insightful)
don't even read this, just mod me flamebait, but isn't playing sound (perferably music) the entire purpose of a mp3 player? What exactly did the Linux on iPod do before? Display a cute penguin and nothing else? Forgive me if I don't consider playing sound a milestone.
Firmware replacements are the way to go (Score:5, Insightful)
For an example of what a replacement third party firmware can do for an audio player, check out RockBox [rockbox.haxx.se]. It turns the obsolete Archos Jukebox 6000 series models into machines capable of playing music much better than the stock firmware, and also capable of doing other stuff as well.
The bottom line: iPodLinux is a work in development. When it reaches production quality, it WILL have more features than the stock firmware, and will support more formats as well. (ogg, anyone?)
It may just be me... (Score:5, Funny)
Misdirection... (Score:3, Insightful)
My microwave oven doesn't run linux yet; can someone get hacking on that?
Seriously, with all of the real projects that need coders, this falls way off the map into the "There be Dragons" category.
"Linux: We don't have a real UI yet, but it doesn't matter because your garage door opener doesn't need it."
[shakes head sadly]
Re:Misdirection... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right. Coders have an obligation to provide their skills free of charge to a project that "needs" it, rather than one they enjoy working on...
What happened to the NetBSD port to iPod? (Score:3, Funny)
Why It's Useful (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason to have an alternative operating system for the iPod is to add new features! There are so many great things that can be done with the hardware in the iPod, that Apple is only beginning to scratch the surface of (or not even considering at all).
Not to mention adding features to the 1G and 2G iPods that are only available on the 3G firmware... I would run Linux on my 2G iPod if it provided functionality similar to the On-The-Go playlists on the newer iPods. Open-source firmware could even improve on these features, such as having the ability to name and save a playlist you've made away from your computer.
Finally, feature additions such as these might keep Apple on their toes - they couldn't let their own firmware become stale, because the alternative would always be improving. I think the Linux on iPod firmware is a great idea, and I wish the developers the best of luck.
Limitless (Score:4, Interesting)
- - How about using it to hold ISO's of your latest distro that you could use as a more direct form of data transfer
.....
Just to name a few ideasThis can be alot cooler than some of you are even starting to scratch the surface
iRiver? (Score:3, Interesting)
More Features (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the "Better features is a bust but the future holds promise"
iPod meshing would be cool to tie into your buddies iPod and access his files and maybe someone could make aftermarket jackets that would let the usb port power a 1xRTT or 802.11x card which could turn the iPod into a digital media device over a network.
With Linux the possibilities are endless!
It does MP3, OGG, WAV and more (Score:4, Informative)
User Tools
The full uClinux distribution contains many basic tools (including Busybox) already patched for use with uClinux.
MAD is a MP3 player that does not require a FPU.
Tremor is an OGG player that does not require a FPU.
SoX is an audio processing application capable of playing a variety of music formats (.WAV is probably the most interesting here).
Intel's IPP package and IPP MP3 Sample program. Intel's IPP is a highly optimised set of libraries that includes MP3 processing. The sample program seems to work fine under uClinux.
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:2, Insightful)
"1.2 Why would you do that?
A number of reasons, but mainly because its there."
But I think you're right overall - this seems a mostly pointless exercise to me
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:5, Informative)
Why would one run linux on an ipod?
So that you can put an OGG player on there and not have to convert your OGGs whenever you wanna listen to them on the go.
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:2, Informative)
Will it transparently sync with itunes or will it be syncable the hard way only ?
Straight from the site's FAQ: Probably. At this point the software support is still very immature. I haven't tried any of the software available for accessing the iTunes database under Linux.
If someone donates me an iPod, I'll gladly try it out and tell ya if it works. ;)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd like to know how to add a remote display and simple button-driven UI to an iPod, for instance. My old PC-based car MP3 player [qsl.net] is too big and clunky to fit in my current daily driver, and I'd like to come up with a way to interface its LCD and track-selection buttons to an iPod, using a microcontroller to do the dirty work rather than a whole PC. I'm about to go surf their tech notes to see if they offer any clues, even though I have no intention of running Linux on the iPod (if I can help it).
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:2)
I couldn't agree more, actually. That's why I want to stick with a proven UI that requires almost zero "pilot workload."
Using an actual iPod while driving ought to be punishable by thirty days in Driver's Ed.
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Im sorry if i don't quite get it (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why?? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Enough With The Forced Database Access (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Enough With The... + Some Ideas (Score:5, Interesting)
Who is going to go making playlists for every one of their folders and then update those playlists every time they add new folders? I see a problem here, one where the ipod playlists become a pain in the ass to keep up - why keep the same data in two places where they will surely fall out of sync without tedious manual synhronization?
I also use folders to make a custom nested format which separates songs by language, style, and year. You can't do that with playlists. A final plus for me is that browsing by folder avoids using ID3 tags, many of which aren't present on the the thousands of foreign language mp3s I have. The original ipod firmware lists a lot of songs as Unknown for me - I have to play them to figure out what the songs are - how useful is that?
The parent's response is similar to the many I saw on the ipodlounge forums. When people asked about browsing by folder, a bunch of apple zealots would shoot em down saying apple's way is better and that they should use it because it is easier. Well not in my case.
-----Some Ideas for the Ipod Linux
A neat thing that has been overlooked - wait till someone replaces the drive with a wireless CF card! We'll get an mp3 player that can be used anywhere around the house to stream music over the local network. We'll have to wait till the Linux firmware can actually play mp3s without skipping though, something the original article submission kinda implied could be done. It appears this is because they are relying on the processor to decode mp3s rather than whatever proprietary hardware mp3 decoder/encoder hardware is in there. Hopefully soon, if they do it at all, they will reverse engineer how to control the mp3 chip in there.
Another idea - what about streaming HDTV over the network and through through the firewire port? A TV with firewire port can do the decoding! Streaming mpeg2 to a firewire equipped HDTV wouldn't require the ipod to do any decoding, so it appears there should be enough procesing power to do this. It'd be nice to see an ipod docked next to the HDTV, and able to play video content from the PC. Didn't Netflix just announce downloadable rentals? Write a program that transcodes the rental into mpeg2 in real time and streams it through the IPOD onto a big TV screen. Pretty neat.
You know nothing, and presume everything. (Score:4, Insightful)
iTunes' smart playlists are automatically synchronized with the iPod, and boast features that your "custom nested format" wouldn't ever dream of achieving.
You can have:
Normal, every-day playlists, with playback order sorted by name, artist, time, album, genre, last played, rating, or random.
Or, you can have DYNAMIC, automatically synced playlists that update themselves based on any combination or exclusion of the following criteria:
Album, artist, song BPM, bitrate, comment, compilation membership, composer, date added, modified, genre, grouping, kind, last played, my rating, play count, sample rate, size, song number, time, track number, year.
That's a few more options than your "separates songs by language, style, and year" now isn't it?
The grouping and contextual modifiers are the following: contains, does not contain, is, is not, starts with, ends with.
This is presented as an arbitrary number and combination of graphical pull-down menus, easy enough for a novice user to use, yet powerful enough for someone versed in a language like SQL to understand and exploit to its fullest capabilities. What iTunes is doing is abstracting the presentation of your songs from the storage, which is what an mp3 player SHOULD do. The filesystem isn't smart, it isn't dynamic, and it isn't flexible. If you don't agree with this, then you're in denial. The very existence of playlists is proof positive that the abstraction is appropriate.
Your "case" is a strawman argument. You made this wild scheme of organizing mp3s because your software had no decent way of organizing music and organizing your playlists. Now that you have this half-baked limp solution for organization, you don't realize that better functionality has been designed into other players from the beginning. You're in the dark, buddy. Step into the 21st century. You want to browse by folders? Browse the Library on disk and double click to play your selected mp3. You want it organized some other way? Use dynamic smart playlists.
As far as ID3 tags go, it's nobody's fault but your own that your mp3s don't have that information in them. Another strawman argument. All of my mp3s have up-to-date ID3 information, either from CDDB or me typing in the info when I import something. Just because huge amounts of pirated mp3s don't contain correct information isn't a valid argument against the use of a useful technology like ID3.
There's nothing ironical about it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Except he was WRONG, it has the exact functionality he wanted, plus the functionality he said DIDN'T exist.
Does this make any sense to you at all? My god. To recap:
iTunes functionality includes his "custom" scheme of presentation, as well as MUCH MUCH more. He was complaining that iTunes' organizational functionality EXCLUDED the way he does things.
Of course you can dream up of some inefficient, inflexible custom bullshit solution and complain that your solution doesn't exist in commercial software. That's the very definition of a strawman argument, which is what I'm trying to expose here.
I'm not going to berate your old school ways of doing things (I wrote perl and bash scripts to parse and organize my mp3 library back in.. uhh, maybe 1998, but I've moved on from that morass of bullshit and settled down in the modern world now) but I _AM_ going to correct assumptions made that are totally wrong!
Re:Enough With The Forced Database Access (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Enough With The Forced Database Access (Score:3, Informative)
Oh right, you rather navigate through the nested folders to find your music!
You are the perfect candidate for Linux on iPod that proudly proclaims it plays MP3.
Re:What about NetMD? (Score:2)