Just What is a Custom Configured Server? 318
djhanson wonders: "I just got back from a small claims court proceeding against Apple Computer. They successfully won their argument in front of the court that selecting additional memory and disk drives for a computer/server at the time of purchase, off of their website, constitutes a 'custom configured computer built to the customer's specifications'. Said computer is therefore not eligible under the company policy to be returned. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? As near as I can tell, Apple is the only company that has such a restrictive policy. I called both IBM and HP, and neither of those companies has such a policy. Am I the only one that thinks there is something terribly wrong with a policy like this?
Any opinions? Suggestions? Comments? Whatever?"
Is this for real? (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm a fan of Apple designs, but I really hope they stay a niche in the market. If Apple ever overruns Redmond, we'll all look back on Microsoft as comparatively benevolent.
-Jerald Hams
Re:You've been stung (Score:2, Insightful)
where does it say that they aren't supporting the machine? all that was said is Apple won't accept "customized" orders as returns. it's actually perfectly understandable. when you "customize" a system, such as a different size hard drive, more ram, dvd burner, etc, it would be hard to sell the machine to someone else. who's to say someone else would want the same exact options? as for 'removing' the customizations, how would you like being sold something as new but was actually taken from a returned 'customized' item. those customized items can no longer be sold as new. they would have to take a percentage off every part they sold you in your customized form and that would be a big hassle for both parties.
uh.... apple treats their employees bad eh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple treats their employees great. if you dissagree, your one of those "the grass is greener in the desert because the internet told me so" people.
Re:You've been stung (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I think Apple offers 'custom configurations' because some customers want it and it sort of looks stupid not to offer it. Apple goes out of it's way to insure that their prices on RAM and extra hard drives (about the only two items you can 'configure' your system with) are way out of line with what's available on the open market. The fact of the matter is that Apple's margins on these components are extremely low and the resources required to pull a machine off the shelf at the warehouse, have an employee put the components in, repackage the whole thing and ship it are not worth it for Apple.
I think Apple really wishes customers would simply go out (or online) and procure a bigger hard drive or more RAM themselves. They go out of their way to provide instructions for installing these components and it really isn't that hard to do. Besides, it's far less expensive for the customer in the end, and you don't need to wait an extra week for the computer to be shipped by Apple...
Wait, wait, wait (Score:5, Insightful)
If the computer was damaged or malfunctioning, Apple have a warranty program that covers that, they'll repair or replace the computer at no charge to you. They even pay for the shipping.
Come on people, this isn't an abuse of consumer rights, it's an abuse of the court system because some guy couldn't make up his mind about what he wanted.
Sorry, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
1. If you didn't want the machine, why did you order it?
2. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but their definition of a 'custom configured computer built to the customer's specifications' seems perfectly reasonable to me.
3. It seems reasonable for Apple not to want to take back a machine that was built to your specification -- hopefully they made you aware of this at the time of buying, but since you went to court, I guess this isn't so. I assume the machine worked -- I'd be dissapointed if they didn't accept a returned faulty machine.
Synopsis (Score:5, Insightful)
Got any other anecdotes we can use to bash "The Man" who still seems to just "keep us down?"
Re:complicated (Score:5, Insightful)
The poster doesn't mention whether the return is because of an unfit product, or just changed his mind.
I suspect the latter, and you can see Apple's point. He gets it and doesn't like it, sends it back, and they have to pull out the RAM, extra HDs - a giant pain in the arse. Why should they?
If it was broken on the other hand and they refuse to take it back, I'd have an issue, but I'm sure there are consumer laws in the US to protect the consumer from manufacturers selling unfit goods.
Not always black and white (Score:1, Insightful)
Apple's customizing, with warranty support, is a blessing for those who don't want to or know how to open the box and insert cards, etc.
As far as returns: in my experience, returning unwanted (as opposed to defective) components or machines can usually be done, regardless of the policy, if you handle the request diplomatically and demonstrate that you are a good and longstanding customer. I doubt small claims court accomplishes that.
Re:Yeah, Apple does that sometimes. (Score:3, Insightful)
The policy only makes sense if Appls's customers are coming back and returning their systems en masse. Otherwise, a return policy is what it is. If you're going to stand by your products, do it. If not, don't. This seems to me like a slimey way out of a guarantee. Other manucafturers take their "custom" systems back -- I believe that they're sold as refurbished or open-box.
Re:Wait, wait, wait (Score:1, Insightful)
Consumer protection seems a bit stronger in the EU than in the US. The flipside is that most goods are more expensive.
Re:Sorry, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is this for real? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I call BS (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, Apple does that sometimes. (Score:3, Insightful)
I just have one (two-part) question: (Score:5, Insightful)
First we've got the iPod retards, who apparently think there are at least eighteen months in a year. I mean, why else would they act like Apple owes them something under the terms of a one-year warranty when their battery dies eighteen months after purchase? Are they traveling at the speed of light? Do they use the Martian calendar? Who knows? They also seem to think that Apple told them the battery would never die, but that's another rant.
Now we've got this other tool posting his whine about not being allowed to return a customized machine. The link to Apple's written policy on that is only on the bottom of every page generated by the Apple Store web site, so it's easy to see how he failed to see it. So now he's trying to raise a public stink in the hopes Apple will make an exception for him to quash the bad publicity he's trying to generate.
These people who flagrantly ignore written policies and then get indignant about it must be the same type of people who park their hulking SUVs in spaces marked "Compact Only." I think the next time I see one of those, I'll key it to demonstrate my contempt.
~Philly
Lucky you live in the US! (Score:3, Insightful)
Call your CC Company (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck!
This Doesn't Sound Plausible (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL, but I happen to have one on staff. Major corporations, like Apple, almost never appear in small claims. They will either try to have the case moved to a higher court (a slow and expensive process, because it almost always requires that the consumer hire a lawyer), or they will simply not show up and pay whatever fine (the max is usually $5,000) the judge throws at them. Corporate lawyers are expensive. At the rate Apple has to pay its lawyers, it just doesn't make sense for them to show up in court.
-Shylock
Re:Is this for real? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I just have one (two-part) question: (Score:1, Insightful)
The Apple manual stated that the iPod battery is designed to last the life of the device. Are you suggesting that it is normal if the iPod only lasts 18 months?
Re:Wait, wait, wait (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:complicated (Score:5, Insightful)
When I received my order of Logitech Z680 5.1 Speakers from Apple, they were DOA. Apple wouldn't refund or exchange my order (as stated in their return policy), so I had to go through the manufacturer. And we all know how fun that is!
Wouldn't Apple be legally obliged to exchange the item or offer a refund? You paid for a set speakers, you got a doorstop. End of story.
For consumers in the UK at least, the contract exists between the customer and the trader - the manufacturer doesn't figure into it at all (Sale Of Goods Act). It is up to the trader to sort out any problems with the goods - not the customer. That said, many high street electrical stores will insist that the customer contacts the manufacturer for repair as many consumers are unaware of the rights they have.
I'd find it hard to imagine that this isn't the case in the US too.
Re:Little Guy Vs Apple - THE DETAILS (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe you can engrave it like somone suggested they could do with the Va. Tech G5's and get mo money.
Re:Little Guy Vs Apple - THE DETAILS (Score:2, Insightful)
These servers are largely manufactured by machines, at a pretty fast pace. Humans are part of the process, but at a minimal level.. it's how prices can be kept down to a reasonable level. You know how this goes. When you want to upgrade the machine... Configure To Order / Build To Order
Re:Little Guy Vs Apple - THE DETAILS (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, are the specs of the computer you purchased different from the standard specs? Did you personally specify them? The answer is yes to both questions, so you did indeed order a product "custom configured to your specifications". I would side with Apple on this one, but whether this non-return policy is a good way to keep customers is another story.
In court someone brought up the analogy of buying a car. My response to that was, if I am buying a brand new car off the lot, and I ask for an automatic transmission (which usually costs more), I still have a stock car.Your version of this analogy does not match what you did. For example, when you go to Apple's website and shop for an Xserve, you can buy either a single- or dual-processor model. This is analagous to going to a car dealer and selecting either the manual or automatic transmission version of a car. In either case, the dealer has the model already in stock; all they have to do is pull it out of inventory and give it to you. However, when you asked Apple to give you a different amount of memory and disk space, and then asked them to take it back, you were having them do more work because they may have to take out the memory and disk drive -- not everyone is going to want the same specs you did. A closer analogy here is more like having the car dealer put deluxe all-weather tires on your car. When you return them, the dealer may have to remove them in order to sell that car again.
Trevor
Re:Little Guy Vs Apple - THE DETAILS (Score:3, Insightful)
Contrary to some of the others assailing you for making a false set of assumptions, I can clearly see your point of view. A customer-oriented company would take your experience into account and design their storefront to make it more clear what the return policy is for a particular piece of equipment. For example, a reminder of their policy on the order confirmation page would be very suitable.
Here's a question for you-- what are you doing with the XServe now?
Re:Yeah, well you wait a month to get your machine (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is this for real? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not really "certain chips", but you are on to something. The manufacturers in the cheap brackets will do all sorts of thing to move the product they need to move. I've seen chips relabelled, I've seen underclocked chips; my dual 1.25s wouldn't even recognize these even after multiple replacmeents). My main point is that the reputable manufacturers won't sell you a chip with enough of the same specs to be the part you ordered, but still not be a Mac-compatible part.
Starting with the first G4s I've had many bosses purchase bare units from Apple to save money - which is ok - then try to save more money by buying the cheapest RAM that would fit the specs. Most (65%-ish) of these machines became unstable - system freezes. I pointed out that several people working on things that made us money were missing deadlines. We went with the good stuff, Kingston in my opinion and experience, and the machines became stable.
I've been dealing with RAM issues in modern Powermacs (G4/G5) and they're all amazingly sensitive to RAM. Use either quality third-party memory, Apple RAM, or risk regular core dumps. I just had a 1GB DIMM fail the hardware tests out of the box, Apple did overnight me a new one after some prodding (new guy, the senior sales rep got back from a conference and overnighted me the RAM). Every manufacturer ships the occasional bad chip, but in a professional environment you have to maximize reliability.
You probably thought they were all OS problems you couldn't fix and blamed Apple for anyway.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not LINUX! DUH! (Score:2, Insightful)
This is the biggest stumbling block that old-time UNIX weenies will have with Macs in the next few years. On the mac, DO NOT pop a terminal window and start editing the config files by hand unless you know what you're doing. I know that you like doing it that way on other UNIX/UNIX-like systems, but that's because the GUI admin tools for those systems are seriously lame, as a rule.
Note that knowing how to do a similar operation on Solaris or Linux is NOT the same thing as knowing what you're doing on the Mac. If you insist on treating it like a generic UNIX box, you're just going to fuck it up.