One more G4 for the PowerBook?

PurdueGraphicsMan writes "Much as we'd love to see the next PowerBook revision include a processor evolution to the mighty G5, we know it's not that simple. The Register provides some sound reasoning (and boatloads of model numbers and voltage specs) as to why we'll probably see a 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook before any G5 PowerBooks materialize." I don't want a G5 on my lap anyway. It'd make me feel guilty, having that much power in a small package while other people can't even get it in a PC tower. Oh, and I don't want to burn my lap.

Need the G5

[BWJones]

I would certainly expect the G4 to be around for at least a little while in portables (perhaps even a dual G4 in the 17in Powerbook), but there is a decided pressure to put the G5 in a portable. When I moved from a dual 1Ghz G4 to a dual G5 at 2.0 Ghz, the difference in performance was striking. For those users who are constantly pushing the limits of their hardware with compiling code or are heavy users of scientific code or even Photoshop, the G5 is a must have. And even though PurdueGraphicsMan would feel guilty, I would not, knowing that my research could go even faster than before.

The real beauty of the G5 is that not only do we get the raw power, but that power is coupled with an OS that is the easiest to use for both the basic user (undergrads or grad students coming into our labs to learn science and the research process) and the advanced user (computer science faculty we are collaborating with to build custom tools for data visualization and processing).

Watercool

[blackmonday]

The heat dissipation issues need to be resolved before the G5 comes out. The next powerbook (and maybe powermac!) will almost surely be water cooled.

Re:Watercool

[millahtime]

"The next powerbook (and maybe powermac!) will almost surely be water cooled."

Water cool a laptop??? That would make it very heavy. the Piping, pump and water itself would add pounds to the weight of the laptop.

Faster or longer battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple needs the G5. Powerbooks used to have a great advantage over x86 laptops in the battery life department, but that is no longer true. The 15" and 17" models typically only last 3 - 4.5 hours on a charge, the 12" maybe a little longer. iBooks last longer, but are a bit underpowered. With the introduction of the Pentium-M, there are now x86 laptops that are both faster and last longer on a charge (like the IBM T41). The Powerbook G5 cannot come soon enough.

Cache money

[jargoone]

Only 512K of cache? No thanks. I'll stick with my Centrino with 1MB. I try and try, and just can't kill the battery in it.

Now if the bastards at Intel would just release the fucking wireless driver for Linux already, I'd be a happy camper.

Poor performance

[iJed]

I really hope that Apple do not release another G4 based PowerBook. Although I am pretty doubtful that this rumour is true.

The 166MHz bus in this thing is hardly going to be able to feed a 1.5GHz G4 CPU since this poor bus performance already cripples the current models. At least it seems they have got the L3 cache back. That should at least make things a little better.

I think Apple is more likely to use these faster G4s in eMac and iBook models rather than in PowerBooks. I think the iMac will also go G5 soon too.

This won't be the last notebook G4

[amichalo]

There is no doubt the G4 will remain a staple in Apple's notebook lineup through 2005.

It amazes me that my 1st generation 400 Mhz G4 Powerbook is mostly hindered by lack of RAM (256mb installed) than processing speed. I have no doubt a 1Ghz G4 iBook would satisfy the computing needs of a liberal arts college student. Perhaps for those in engineering or graphics classes they would push the envelope, but teh G4 remains a great chip.

I would rather enjoy the cost savings and power consumption savings of a G4 laptop than the cool factor of a G5 because I just don't have that great a need.

iBook

[valkraider]

My bet is that the next PowerBook sports a G5, while these new G4s are used in the iBooks.

I would expect something like this:

Powerbook G5, 2Ghz, 1.8Ghz, 1.6Ghz
iBook G4, 1.5Ghz, 1.33Ghz, 1.1Ghz

With the new line of iBooks having the bus speed/architecture of the current PowerBooks (essentially I would think the current Powerbooks be given the new G4, changed into a white plastic outfit, and rebadged iBook - well, basically excluding the 17inch model of course...)

Applications

[Ann Coulter]

I doubt that we will be seeing laptops with more than 4GB of memory anytime soon. Virtual memory is slow for the kinds of applications normally used on a 64-bit system. If virtual memory is used, we might be seeing more 32-bit applications that does paging of 4GB blocks before the implementation of a 64-bit Apple laptop. I also think that most people would be running their 64-bit memory addressing applications for long spans time and I doubt that they would use a laptop for them. And as for 64-bit integer applications, I would love to have faster encryption with larger keys on my laptop but most people still use 32-bit systems and using such key sizes would be inpolite. Faster internal data transfer will be useful though. In conclusion, I think that the applications for 64-bit machines are inappropriate for laptops and there will not be much of an advantage for a 64-bit laptop.

Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps

[itomato]

You'd think that after 11 years, you'd have figured out Apple's product upgrade schedule. ;)

Thinking back (but not too hard), it's been pretty much the same methodology since Stevie came back.

Speed-bumped/updated current models appear 4-7 months before entirely new machines. This is stretched out over Consumer, Pro, and Pro-sumer lines.

It's kind of like how automakers, well Ford anyway, introduces their cars. They put out the schmancy new Lincolns about the same time they upgrade the Taurus, which is about the same time they let loose a new compact. The high and low end products are the most daring, while bread and butter stays a little conservative.

Re:This won't be the last notebook G4

[valkraider]

You know, I feel similar except my concern is not for "speed" but "investment". I really want to untether myself from my desk, and a 1.25Ghz 15in Powerbook seems like the exact beast I want. And it would be a great improvement over my iMac 800Mhz G4 (processor speed and bus speed and graphics card).

But the issue isn't whether the G4 is good enough, or whether I need a G5. By all accounts, for what I do, the G4 is great...

BUT - and there is always a but, right? - If I am going to drop $2500 on a high end laptop, I want it to last a good while - not be out-dated in two months... Why would I spend that much money, even on an upgraded G4? I wouldn't. We bought a 12inch 1Ghz PowerBook the day they came out - and that will be the last G4 we buy. My next purchase will be a G5 Laptop, and it would be today if Apple released it...

Apple has great product life. My 500Mhz iMac G3 runs fabulously - and I bought it for $1100 4 years ago! I just don't want to buy an "expensive top line end of product line model" just to have the new one come out in a couple months - because even if they have another speed bump in the G4 PowerBooks - they WILL release the G5 PowerBooks this year.

Re:What a troll post

[bombadillo]

Ever notice that if you boot up XP and imediately log in you will not have an IP address? I am not sure if this is a default setting. I think MS did this to make the boot times appear faster. Usually , the first thing I do after booting up a computer is open up a browser. I don't think you can consider any computer today as fully booted until the TCP/IP stack is fully operational.

Re:Flamebait

[rigmort]

Watch a proficient Mac user work. You'll notice that the left hand is on the keyboard at all times, copying, pasting, opening, closing, undoing, answering dialogue boxes, AND CTRL-CLICKING to get contextual menus. It's a different way of working; not necessarily better or worse. For me, it feels right.

Besides, my right-click is reserved for Expose. [apple.com]

Re:Need the G5

[Anonymous Coward]

Yo dude, I've been looking back through your posts and it appears you have some serious anger management (or self valuation) issues going on. Perhaps the grad students are more productive on OS X than they are on other OS's. Perhaps the CS faculty (who apparently are valued for their opinions on computer science, thus their faculty positions) prefer OS X?

Laptop performance

[guacamole]

I must say that the improvements in the speed of Apple portables have been really pathetic during all recent years. Consider this example.. almost two and a half years ago I bought an iBook with a 600MHz G3 processor. Honestly, I felt the performance was barely adequate and I decided to replace it eventually, maybe in about three years. But today, for about the same price, you can buy an iBook with an 800MHz G4 (and all other components slightly beefed up). The speed improvement is barely noticeable. In the same time frame the PC portables have improved by a whole lot more, not to mention, I wouldn't have had this performance anxiety if I bought something like an R-series IBM Thinkpad with +1GHz mobile pentium 3 for about the same price back then to begin with)..

If Apple doesn't come up within a year with an iBook replacement that has at least 1.5GHz or so CPU, I'll probably just switch to PC laptops.

Re:Need the G5

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Grandparent poster didn't say "they can't learn to use another OS," he said, "this way they can use the OS that's easiest to use." I'm a CS grad student. I'm competent with several OS's including Linux, BSD, Solaris, and [sigh] Windows. I still prefer using a Mac, because even though I can get work done in other OS's, my work goes faster when I'm using OS X.

Re:Guaranteeing Apple speed/feature bumps

[Echnin]

I refer you to the MacRumors buyer's guide. [macrumors.com]

Days Since Update: 161 (Average = 163)

So full of crap!

[MarcQuadra]

That is SO full of crap. The G5 consumes under 50 watts at 2GHz, less than a Pentium4, I don't see 2GHz P4 laptops needing water cooling. The reason the G5 is _PERCIEVED_ as a hot chip is that Mac users are used to the 'good ole' days' when their CPUs only sucked 5-15 watts, we've STILL got quite a lead on you x86 folks. My Athlon XP 2500+ puts out 78 watts at 1.8GHz.

The G4 and G5 both produce WAY less heat then their x86 counterparts, but Apple uses GIANT heatsinks so they can run their fans at very low RPMs.

Get a grip on reality. The 'hot lap' G4 latops are still cooler than PCs of comparable clock speed, from my own experience. Mac users have just been spoiled by the 68K and G3 series, which were passively cooled (read: no fan. at all.).

Re:Heat

[Sketch]

Sure, you can put it up against anything Apple can put on a laptop as long as it's sitting on a desk and plugged in. But how much does it weigh, and how much runtime do you get when you are actually using the machine on battery?

Re:Need the G5

[Anonymous Coward]

PPC chips (and, to a lesser extent, AMD Athlon chips) are both capable of doing more per cycle than the current offerings from Intel.

And you know that because you read it 5 years ago on some Mac Fanboi website, right? Well, things change.

Fact is, the G4 was never all that much better than a Pentium-III, and does far less IPC than either a Pentium 4 or a Athlon64. Currently the Pentium-M kicks the G4's ass for portable use (battery life & performance). This is a very obsolete chip that's on a hobbled 2001-era motherboard.

Re:iBook performance

[Anm]

Why did you buy an iBook if performance is a concern? The cache and higher memory limit of the PowerBook line make a world of difference.

Anm

Again, the Megahertz Myth rears it's head.

[gaudior]

Not to mention completely ignoring the substantial differences between the G4 and the G3.
I have an iBook 700, which has continued to get faster with each new OS release. The only real limiting factor for me now is the hard drive size. I'm contemplating a DIY upgrade of the hard drive, as soon as my Applecare runs out.

By contrast, my desktop machine is a Beige G3, with a 400mhz G4 upgrade. That machine seems faster than my laptop, and it probably is, using benchmarks.

Re:Need the G5

[Mr. Piddle]

Computer graphics will always be cutting-edge. As CPU/Ram/Disk increases in capability, it'll be fully utilized by content creators immediately. So, I entirely agree that a 400MHz CPU is a absolutely great home/office desktop, but it makes a mediocre game/movie development workstation by modern standards.

While graphics could be called a niche market, be aware that it includes MCAD/CAM, too, which isn't trivial by any measure. Basically, if it runs OpenGL, then there is always room for faster and bigger hardware.

Re:Actually, the G4 could have a long life...

[Datafage]

It takes DDR RAM but the doubled bandwidth goes unused, as the G4 has limited memory bandwidth regardless of the bandwidth capacity of the RAM controller and RAM itself.

Re:This won't be the last notebook G4

[Slack3r78]

You're assuming that the G5 is going to be significantly more expensive than the G4. We already know that IBM seels the G5 to Apple for less than they're buying G4's from Moto, so it's quite possible that G5's could be introduced into the Powerbook line without any major price hikes.

Re:Need the G5

[andy55]

I guess the fact that I use my laptop as a portable recording studio isn't a reasonable justification? Even the top of the line 17" 1.33 Ghz can't always keep up with my realtime processing needs.

Good points... as you use yours for a recording studio, i use my 17" as a intensive dev environment, with Metroworks Codewarrior, Dreamweaver, Office X, and photoshop all w/ stuff open (and compiling) at the same time -- when you're a shareware dev, you wear a lot of hats, and having that power and instant access to those apps is key. In fact, i just dropped in a 512MB module last week.

The guys does have a point about marketing depts wanting us to think we need to spend all-out for *the* latest hardware in a laptop. Granted, doing hard core recording studio stuff (ie, make-or-break/critical real-time processing) in a laptop would be a good reason for a portable G5, but now we're talking a real minority of users.

Separetly, the heat problem is an interesting one. My 17" already burns a hole in my lap when the CPU is maxed out, so the engineers have their work cut out for them for the heat load of a maxed out G5. whew.