PowerBook Performance for Java Development? 255
brasten wants to get to the core of this issue: "I'm in the market for a new development notebook. I would like to jump into the Apple world and pick up a PowerBook. However, compiling very large Java applications of course takes some time, and so raw processing speed is a factor. I have been unable to find solid data on how fast a 1.33GHz PowerBook runs against the modern x86-based notebooks. Does anybody have any information that could help me compare?"
Does speed really matters that much? (Score:5, Insightful)
The G4 can't win the battle against modern x86 processors anymore.
But on the other side, how often do you compile a whole project? While you develop, there are mostly only very few files changed. Compiling them then is only a matter of seconds. On every platform.
The much more important question is, if Mac OS X and the applications can speed up your developing process? If you saved 10 seconds by faster editing the source files, you can spent 5 seconds for the longer compilation time and save 5 seconds for your personal recreation ;)
Re:PowerBook vs Intel box (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, if you change a class that's used by a lot of other classes (eg your Constants class?) it will have to recompile all those classes again. If you're trying to live off your programming, you want things to get done quickly, and you want to avoid sitting around for a few minutes waiting for the rebuild to complete. That makes compilation speed very important.
Daniel
Depends what OS you run (Score:3, Insightful)
The core of OSX is based on Darwin/BSD and as such I would expect similar speed improvements, but you'd better make sure that you get a powerbook with a nippy GPU because the GUI might mask the true speed of whats going on under the hood.
I'd go with the powerbook, they are lovely machines, I cant wait till I can afford one, all that unixy goodness in such a small package, and having apps such as iMovie etc, it would also be a fun purchase.
Re: My Impressions.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: tests (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If you can wait a month or two... then do. (Score:3, Insightful)
Good enough for James Gosling (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Are notebook HD's still slower than desktop HD' (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If you can wait a month or two... then do. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are notebook HD's still slower than desktop HD' (Score:2, Insightful)
Uh... dude? Hate to break it to you, but the hard drives aren't customer-replaceable in the aluminum PowerBooks. Seriously: you can't get at it. Can't get there from here. And if you try, even if you succeed, your one-year warranty and all future AppleCare go poof and disappear in little puffs of blue smoke.
Just get the 5400 and forget it.
Re:If you can wait a month or two... then do. (Score:3, Insightful)
The price-performance value curve increases with time... but it doesn't do so steadily. It's punctuated by new product releases. The best time to buy is right after a "speed bump" release. If you buy a new machine that's significantly different from the previous generation, you run the risk of uncovering previously unknown flaws in the design. But if you take a tried-and-true design and buy the "rev B" model, you're pretty much assured a good experience.
So the best advice is to wait as long as you can until the right circumstances come along. Don't just wander into the Apple Store and plop down your credit card without scoping out the landscape first.
Re: tests (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd want to too, but only with J2ME 2.0 ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Having JDK1.4.2 is great but the lack of J2ME 2 is more and more like missing a limb now, and the pain is growing each day.
--
"The problem of standard is there are too many of them."
Re:Wait for g5 Notebooks (Score:2, Insightful)
Full-Time Developer's Experience (Score:5, Insightful)
Overall, I've never noticed a performance problem when compiling large applications. As a barometer, I just did an "ant clobber dist" on a current project (around 200 classes, plus 50 JSP pages, etc etc), and it built a distributable in 18 seconds. Not too shabby. Overall, Java compiler performance shouldn't be a concern in purchasing a laptop; if your build takes too long, it's more likely the fault of a poor build process than a slow compiler!
Anyway, Java integration into Mac OS X is the best in the industry. It's amazing -- Apple's OS is more Java-aware than Sun's
Finally, if you're going to do lots of development at a desk, I'd also strongly recommend plunking down the $2K for an Apple Flatscreen. [apple.com] Yeah yeah, it's expensive... but you'll be more productive with a great external monitor. And if you're going to be buying that much hardware, you might as well look into joining the Apple Developer Connection [apple.com], as you might be able to get 12 - 20 % off of hardware purchases (especially if you can claim Student status somehow).
HTH,
--Mid
Re:Powerbook vs iBook (Score:3, Insightful)
The comparable 15" PowerBook has a lower resolution screen and *starts* at $2000, with a slower CPU (1GHz, and Pentium-M has higher IPC in most cases compared to G4), less memory, no DVD burner, and a smaller drive (60gb). Both notebooks have integratrd WiFi, both have good battery life (nearly five hours), both have FireWire and S-video out. The PC has USB 2.0 and PCMCIA. The PowerBook has FireWire 800, 802.11g (as opposed to b), and that nifty lighted keyboard.
Gateway has a decent 17" notebook for $1400. A 17" PowerBook *starts* at over $2500.
The iBook G4 is $1100. For $800, I got a smaller, lighter notebook (Averatech 3150P; 4.3lbs) with the same buit in DVD combo drive, same 12" XGA screen, larger 40gb HDD, integrated 802.11b, USB 2.0, 256M DDR memory, and Windows XP Pro.
What do you spend most of your time doing, anyway? (Score:3, Insightful)
You might be able to find a P4 laptop you can cook an egg on and might also compile your app a little faster, but what is it going to save you, really? 3 seconds per compile, if that?
When developing, if you're any good at all, you spend the bulk of your time writing code, not compiling it. If you're not very good, most of your time is still spent fixing errors reported by the compiler, or debugging code, and so maybe the debugger is where you should be asking performance questions.
Either way, deciding if you should get a Pentium or G4 based on compiler performance when what you're doing is writing code is somewhat like asking if you should get a Dodge or a Honda based on horsepower when what you're doing is driving a couple of miles to work... I mean, it's very likely that *other* factors are more important, like ease-of-use, target deployment platform, what you'd rather be spending your time/money on, preferred editor/IDE, etc... and in the long run, either one will do the job. Of course, my answer is don't send money to Microsoft, they have plenty.
Re:Benchmark scores (Score:3, Insightful)
Faster than my sparc ultra 60... get the Powerbook (Score:4, Insightful)
But, forget about speed, you'll love the PowerBook.
I've pretty much migrated all my Java development to it without even noticing... It's just a nice platform.
Pat Niemeyer
Author of Learning Java, O'Reilly & Associates and the BeanShell Java scirpting language.
Powerbook Performance (Score:3, Insightful)
With the better memory bus in the new machines, I guess that the 1.25/1.33 GHz ALBooks should come close to a 2GHz P4. In other words, they are plenty fast enough for at least medium sized projects (and if you use a reasonably smart development environment, e.g. make, you rarely compile a lot of stuff in one go anyways.
For me, I'm very happy with my machine. It's not the pure performance, but rather the whole package. It is actually a pleasure to just sit there and type away on the keyboard. And I'm using it mostly under X11/Fink, so it is not attribuatable to the OS (although MacOS-X is farly good), it is purely due to the nice materials and reasonably ergonomic design.
Re:If you can wait a month or two... then do. (Score:2, Insightful)
"If you can wait- wait" is not horrible advice. "Don't buy an apple portable now whatever you do" would be horrible advice.