Recycle some of your 100 million Pepsi Songs

grub writes "If you're one of the people that wins a free download from Apple's iTunes during the upcoming 100 million song giveaway from Pepsi, then check out Tune Recycler. They say: "With the Tune Recycler, you can send us your unwanted iTunes bottlecap codes and we'll use them to support independent music. Easy for you, and good for musicians" Sounds like a great idea for payments that may otherwise be tossed in the trash."

Killing the golden goose?

[LostCluster]

Even the Tune Recycler site admits that Pepsi and Apple are expecting that a majority of the "winning" bottlecaps are going to be ignored and unclaimed. If this kind of site encurages more returns than antisipated, might this prevent there from being a repeat of this promotion in the future?

how long

[everyplace]

How long before extra itunes codes wind up on ebay in lots? Will that be an appropriate thing to sell?

Pepsi, Cola war again

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd this happens just after Coke makes its music store in the UK

I don't think anyone will bite....

[Dr Reducto]

I don't think this campaign of theirs will work out. If only %10-%20 percent of people are going to redeem their caps on iTunes, even less are going to go through the hassle of mailing bottlecaps to someone. I bet they'll get maybe 1000 caps.

As for me, im going to the store to see if they started the iTunes promotion, and if they have, I will be buying a few cases of Pepsi.

Who runs this thing?

[LostCluster]

Who's picking which songs will be downloaded with the turned-in codes? How do we not know that this isn't being set up by a group of artists who want to boost their own sales? Is there any way for additional artists to sign up to get a cut of this money?

Re:Killing the golden goose?

[mrseigen]

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the fact that 90% of idiots will go "Hmm, there's this Eye-Tunes thing in my Pepsi... oh well" and toss it. I'd bet that probably very few people will cash in their codes, and even fewer will give them away to this site or even know it exists.

Personally, I'm in Canada, so I don't really care (iTMS isn't over here because of the Canadian music industry being a pain).

Domain is NOT registered to Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

The domain of tunerecycler.com is not recycled to Apple. How do we know that this guy isn't trying to make a quick buck?

See the WHOIS [register.com]

Accountabilty?

[geekboy_x]

I would feel a lot better about this if there was some public accountability from Tunerecycler. Do we get statements? A redemption receipt? Summaries at the end? Anything?

As an independent musician, I find it odd that they have never responded to an email asking for more info from an artist's POV - especially when asking for clarification on their stance on iTunes downloads. Silence can often speak volumes.

If this was simply a list of all the bands and labels at the iTunes store (with proper documentation) that you SHOULD support by redeeming the caps yourself, I would be all for it. But there are enough holes here (and enough errors in the so-called label "tree") that I wouldnt touch this thing with a 3 metre pole.

Have fun. Listen to music. But dont get sucked in.

(DISCLAIMER: The band I am in offers ALL of our CDs for free on our web site, all the time. iTunes wouldn't touch us if we were the last band on earth. Whether or not you use the caps, recycle them, or paste them on a squirrel, makes no matter to us.)

bad approach

[larry bagina]

They're advocating sending in unused coupons so they can buy multiple copies of music from indie artists. If you don't want to install iTunes, that's an ok proxy, I guess, and better than just throwing them out.

I think a better approach would be if all slashdot readers (or tunecycler advocates) would get indie music. tunecycler could list a new artist or song to check out every couple days, and pepsi-guzzling geeks could get a free song. That would put money in the indie artist's pocket and expose more people to their music, something their approach doesn't do.

Official Rules

[crumbz]

Apple's Official Rules for the promotion state that the, "Maximum number of valid Codes per email address/person that can be entered at the Web Site is 10 per day and 200 total throughout the Promotion Period." I wonder how these guys are going to get around that?

code??

[lastninja]

What kind of codes are Pepsi and Apple using in the bottle caps. Are the codes following some pattern or are they using random numbers?? If they follow a pattern and it is true that only 10% of all codes are used, one could just boost his favorite independant artist, during the last day of the promotion and no one would notice (except pepsi that is) provided you found the algorithm, ofcourse.

Apple has Independents too

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess it should be pointed out that iTunes has made a deal with CD Baby through which artists who are not signed to one of the Big 5 congloms can get their music on iTunes.

http://www.cdbaby.com/about?cdbaby

I am not affiliated with either Apple or CD Baby, nor do I know where to get more information concerning this deal. But you all know how to use Google, right?

The problem

[cascino]

The problem is that the largest difficulty in getting a consumer to redeem the bottle cap certificate is having them remember not to throw it away, and instead bring it home and type it into the computer.
This recycling idea counts on people bringing home their caps but NOT redeeming them. I'm really not quite sure why anyone would want to do that. I certainly have a whole bunch of music I'd be more than happy to get for free one way or another, some of which includes independent albums.
Why can't they simply encourage people to buy music from indy groups, instead of essentially throwing the money away on licensed files that no one's ever going to listen to?
It's one thing to have big sales on iTunes, but if no one's ACTUALLY LISTENING to the music, what point does it serve?

Easier Solution?

[fidget42]

An easier solution would be to publish a list of songs (or links to them) from "honest, independent labels" and let people purchase them on their own. It would save them money on gathering the codes and may expose people to new music.

Just a thought...

Re:100 Million Songs... Specifics?

[Teese]

Therefore Pepsi hands a $20 million check to Apple and it's all settled.

I'm guessing that his is not how it works (though I could be wrong and you could be right ;-). My understanding on how these promotions go, is that pepsi actually pays some insurance company (or, more-likely, a company that specializes in promotion coverage, like this one [scapromotions.com].) a straight fee (like the $20 million you mentioned), Pepsi probably says "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we gave away 100 millions songs for free off of itunes?", they go the the insurance company who runs a bunch of numbers through computers and calculate the actual odds of percentages of redemption. They then tell Pepsi, we'll insure the promotion for $X dollars and pepsi says go or no-go.

Remember those wacky rumor sites claim that pepsi is paying Apple full price. Other sites (more news oriented) say that Apple is only getting something like 10 cents a song, so Apple is probably very limited on what kind of special pricing they can offer.

That's my guess anyways - take it for what it is, just random thinking from a random guy who vaguely remembers reading an article many years ago on how these kinds of promotions work.

Re:Where are the files going?

[spideyct]

That would effectively promote iTunes, by making more people download and use the service in order to hear the song. If you read the site, you will see they are not too fond of iTunes.

Maybe a better solution (though more technically/legally challenging) would be for them to buy/download the song for you, and then make it available to (only) you for download from their site.

Re:how long

[Octagon Most]

"... they technically have a cash value of 1/20 cents ..."

True. On paper coupons where you see that printed it refers specifically to the redemption value honored by the issuer. In other words you could not turn in x number of "$1.00 off" coupons to the manufacturer and redeem them for x dollars. Absent that legalese you probably could make the case for forcing them to give you that cash value in actual cash. At least that's probably why the "cash value" statement appears.

Now, as others are saying, something is worth what people are willing to pay. That $1.00 off coupon that you are not going to use has no material value to you but is worth some amount up to $1.00 to me if I am going to buy the promoted item. I could give you $0.50 and we'd both be getting something. The same would apply to these winning caps provided there is not some legal barrier to selling them. Certainly there is in some areas and you would invite trouble with a mass sale in the open on eBay. But a private, or much less public, sale between individuals would not invite scrutiny. Anyway, Pepsi and Apple both win if you drink enough to get to the point where you are contemplating what to do with your winnings.

Re:code??

[Quobobo]

You've never heard of a keygen?

Re:Don't feel bad for the poor guitar player...

[jred]

You don't really have to be good. I know a lot of really, really good artists who barely eke out a living. The best art I've ever seen was produced by a woman who never made much of anything on her art. She was able to successfully barter it (trading art to the vet, etc.). Now she's making her living by teaching glass blowing. It lets her survive while creating more art.

On the other hand, there's my ex-wife. She has a pretty lucrative side-business creating commisioned art. She is, at best, a mediocre artist. How does she get all this paid work? She's the personal assistant to an interior decorator. When the customers need something to "fit" above the couch, and they see samples of her stuff in the shop, they naturally ask if she has something that would work. In her case, it's not her talent that gets her paid, it's her connections.

Not too different from musicians, I suppose. It's the ones with the connections that make it.

Ploy

[dduardo]

1) Request Pespi Codes from Internet Users
2) Use statically analysis
3) Write script to generate codes
4) Download songs for free from iTunes

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Re:Killing the golden goose?

[daviddennis]

On one level, this is a silly promotion, since it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to send them their bottle caps so they can buy music. Why not just use the suggestions on their web site to buy whatever music you want to support yourself?

And if you think of it, this promotion really IS a brilliant way to highlight labels owned by their friends and acts that they like.

On that level, it's really a very nice job, and I'm sure it will help sales of "their" music.

D

Re:Killing the golden goose?

[Neophytus]

It's actually sometimes a bit of a pain finding pepsi in newsagents over here [UK] because of coke's popularity and exclusive deals.

Re:Killing the golden goose?

[MacBrave]

Michigan has a 10 cent deposit on it's cans and bottles.

I used to buy cans in neighboring states that didn't have deposits (like Indiana) then turn them in at a store in MI for $.10 a can. This worked until the stores started getting machines that scanned the bar code on the can.

Another way to help independent musicians

[tobes]

I'm hoping that people are going to use my site to find new bands to buy with their free songs. Not in the mood to download more Radiohead? Click on Radiohead on Musicmobs and find a more independent artist that people that like Radiohead also like. Of course, there's no guarantee that what you are looking for will be in the iTunes store.

Re:Oh man ...

[k_187]

They can have whatever opinion they want, but really isn't apple (and pepsi for that matter) the biggest benefactor of this no matter what they do? Apple gets the same cut regardless of which record label the artist is signed to. If they think this is unfair (the impression I get from their website), shouldn't they be telling people to not use itunes at all and buy directly from the artist? Seems silly to me to be saying that this is a bad thing in one breath, yet encourgaging people to use it (albeit by proxy) in another. Maybe they just want free songs. They link to Poisoned(a fine gifTD frontend) on the page you link. Curious I say.

Re:how long

[xWeston]

How long before a keygen is out?

Re:A geeks could respect that

[gmhowell]

Dumpster diving is weak. When I was a kid, we would take our trash to a landfill. After a year or so, my mother's edict was 'you bring back LESS than you take'. Landfill diving is to dumpster diving as a Ferrari Enzo is to a Miata (or an IBM mainframe is to a 486).

Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, the landfill filled up, and is now only a transfer station.

Limit to the amount you can redeem

[mesach]

Q: How many codes can I enter?
A: You can enter up to ten unique codes per day, not to exceed 200 unique codes over the duration of the Pepsi iTunes Music Promotion.

Personally, I am thinking about sending in 200 SASE's worth .72 for mine... it might take longer, but its not a 1 in 3 chance, when purchasing a 1.50 drink.

Re:Killing the golden goose?

[dasmegabyte]

might this prevent there from being a repeat of this promotion in the future?

Which is exactly what these jerks want. The Downhill Battle people are CHRONICALLY anti-pop. They hate everything about the industry, and want bands to start getting more profits RIGHT NOW. And for some reason, they're taking Apple to task for choosing to support the major labels (who have money, visibility and songs people actually want to buy) instead of the current nobodys yearning to be heard.

The internet, with its streamlined approach to music delviery offering low-cost warehousing and display mechanisms, offers that potential. And these guys seem to think that this means artists will get the good end of the stick immediately.

Wrongo. Are these guys joking? eMusic tried this already, offered uncrippled unlimited downloads of independent music, and they didn't last. What the Downhill Battle people are asking for is such a pipedream that doesn't even BEGIN to approach the problem...which is that too many people get their hands in commercial music, and the guy whose face is in the liner notes had very little to do with the finished product. Instead, they're attacking a symptom of that: the fact that artists get kind of a shitty cut of the take.

Corporate control of music has a number of other problems associated with it as well, not the least of which are lack of promotion, lack of airplay, and lack of localized availability of music. iTunes solves most of these by allowing their entire catalog to be available to all users who can sample them to taste. Any song I've ever bought from iTunes was the result of this flexibility. That's a pretty impressive feat for a piece of software.

And yet, these guys seem to think that unless iTunes solves ALL the problems independent artists face at the first go, it's crap. Bullshit. Apple is a business, a moderately successful one at that. In business, you have to move at exactly the right pace, and make just the right moves. Apple's first move towards market dominance was making deals with the major labels. Their second move was making deals with smaller labels, whose musical styles matched those of high sellers on the music store. They're adding thousands of new songs every day. Eventually, they'll come knocking on the doors of the garage independents like Asian Man and Hieroglyphics Imperium, and they'll put those artists RIGHT NEXT to John Melloncamp on iTunes. That association is some powerful shit...a LOT more powerful than just offering your songs on some forgotten website. And you can STILL do that, if you want to. iTunes is discouraging NOTHING.

It's that visibility which is going to make artists, Apple and the labels rich(er) -- not some magic "artist's take" feature or some slapdash music service for indies. Before you can get fans, they've got to HEAR you...and they've got to be able to purchase your records...and iTunes offers a much more robust and accessible solution for that then a couple of paypal links and one of your buddies with a stack of media mailers.

Re:Killing the golden goose?

[3terrabyte]

As a previous employee of Pepsi, I can say that we paid large 'donations' to the school to be the exclusive pop seller on the campuses.

What gets me is the contracts with the high schoolers, and now the grade schools. They say the average teenager drinks *10* cans of pop a day. That's scary.

Get your free cap from Pepsi...

[nacturation]

From the Official Rules [apple.com]:

No Purchase Necessary. To receive one free game piece and a copy of Official Rules, while supplies last, send a self-addressed, stamped envelope postmarked on or before 3/31/04 to: Pepsi iTunes Game Piece, P.O. Box 9205, Young America, MN 55558-9205. Residents of the state of VT may omit return postage. Limit one free game piece per request per stamped outer envelope.

So Vermont residents, for the cost of two envelopes, you can get a game piece which has a 1/3 chance of winning. It doesn't look as if there's a limit to the number of times you can mail in for your free game piece either, as long as each request is in a separate envelope.