Microsoft Dismisses Apple's iTunes for Windows 916
fewnorms writes "Microsoft's general manager for the Windows Digital Media division, Dave Fester, yesterday dismissed the new iTunes for Windows version, saying it was too limited for the average Windows users. Choice quote: "[Apple's music store] ... is a drawback for Windows users, who expect choice in music services, choice in devices, and choice in music from a wide-variety of music services to burn to a CD or put on a portable device." Of course Apple doesn't feel to worried about this, simply stating their products will (and have) lived up to the hype." The points made are all valid- but contradictory to standard Apple product design where simplicity always takes priority over flexibility. Besides, iPod is growing market share, and iTunes will be the best choice for windows users who own it.
Please remember. (Score:5, Insightful)
Who is Microsoft to talk? (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, yeah, this coming from the company that's offering exactly *how* many music downloads?
It seems to me that.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple can keep things a little simpler, and a little more limited, and offer the flexibility that they do (burning audio copies to CD, etc), as much as we geeks might complain, it's probably easier for the average consumer to grasp.
Sure, I'd love to see a mainstream offering with a huge library selling DRM-less MP3s, but that doesn't seem likely to happen, and it's certainly not going to come from Microsoft.
Re:Oh yeah.... (Score:3, Insightful)
For all the complaints of lock-in WRT MS..... (Score:1, Insightful)
WMA is far more flexible and portable, open, closed, or otherwise. Unless Apple adds WMA to the iPod and iTMS, they're not going to grow very much on the PC.
Cat got your tongue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Advanced features in Media Player (Score:2, Insightful)
Stop wasting your time on lousy software (Score:5, Insightful)
Who wants crazy flexibility when you don't even use half of the extra options and they just clutter up the user experience? I'm ditching the other jukeboxes I've been suffering with all year and sticking with iTunes. It may even influence me to buy an iPod -- if it works as seamlessly and easily as iTunes, sign me up.
I'm tired of frittering away so much time trying to overcome the learning curves of PC software and trying to get programs to work and play together. I'm not into computers because I'm in love with jerking around in advanced options settings all day long, I'm into computers because of what they can do for me. My job already pays me to spend 10 hrs a day getting computers to work, I don't want to spend the rest of my free time doing the same thing.
Mac stuff works, first time, every time, it does what you expect it to do. I think that just might be worth paying for. I think I'm going to start saving my pennies for a nice little PowerBook.
SONY Should be the Angry One Here (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny how they still sell so many CD-burners and blank media though, isn't it?
Re:Has anybody noticed... (Score:3, Insightful)
You're screwed either way. (Score:2, Insightful)
When Microsoft opens their music store in a few months be prepared to lock-in to The MS Way. Don't expect any form of standards or even support for all devices. Don't believe me? Look at the past for some insight to the future.
Again, iTunes is great if you have or want an iPod... or if you don't want any sort of music player at all. Now if you're using some other mp3 player, then you pretty much have no business even looking at iTunes.
Re:The best choice? Guess again. (Score:2, Insightful)
The domination of Apple in the music industry (Score:5, Insightful)
iTunes is a nice start, but to have it for both platforms AND the best mp3 player on earth AND have every AOL user on the planet instantly be abel to use the ITMS (it uses the credit card from the AOl account) AND have Pepsi do a huge push during the Superbowl to give away 100 million songs (and at the same time having literally millions of people install iTunes in short order) AND having a means for parents scared of lawsuits to provide music for kids (allowance) AND to have thousands of audiobooks and other great content like NPR shows...
Apple has set a goal of 100 million songs downloaded in the first year of iTunes (starting in April). But frankly I think they have set their sights way too low. I think 200 million by next April is not out of the question, and probably really low.
One other benefit that Apple has, is that the musicians themselves are generally rooting for the store. I don't know how much of an effect that will have, if any... but a groundswell of artists demanding to be on ITMS cannot hurt.
I have to say, if I were trying to start up another music store right now I would be quivering - even if I were Microsoft, and none of them are! I have to wonder how long it will be before Microsoft sees the whole industry slipping from them and offers a music store directly screwing over all the partners based on WMP.
I don't understand why Dell is trying to do it's own server and doesn't just cut a deal to install iTunes on all Dell desktops. There's a plan for Gateway - are you listening?
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice sentence. Anyway... iTunes will let you burn your music to CD-ROM. You can then re-rip this (with iTunes no less) to unprotected AAC or MP3.
Besides, iTunes is a free application intended for iPod users. You don't see me bitching that Kodak's digital camera software won't work on my Canon Elph.
Re:no scripting required (Score:2, Insightful)
- (genre = techno) or (genre = electronica) or (genre = dance)
- and (not (artist = aphex twin) and not (artist = autechre))
- and (rating > 3)
- and (last played is not in the last 7 days)
or- all unrated music not in any of my other playlists.
or- (playlist = Party hits)
- and (last played is not the last 7 days)
etc etc etc.re-read my post. yes there are lots of things you can do with smart playlists, but to get any sort of genuine boolean logic in there requires scripting. you can't do that with the smart playlist interface. yet.
Re:Please remember. (Score:5, Insightful)
The Microsoft exec's comments are FUDful, as always - "choice"? Giving Windows users iTunes and the iTMS just gives them another choice (or set of choices), rather than taking choices away. Windows users can get iTunes and/or iPod (they don't have to use one to use the other, and don't have to use the iTMS to use either) and use them with other options.
It's true iTunes and the iPod don't play WMA files (DRM'ed or otherwise), but how is that different from other Windows players (software and hardware) not playing AACs (or Ogg, or whatever)? It's also true the iTMS files don't play on players other than iTunes and the iPod, but how is that different from BuyMusic's (or similar services') files not playing in anything except Windows Media Player and DRM WMA-capable portable players? (Ok, there is a bit of difference there, since there's a greater variety of portables that play WMA files, but one might argue none of them are as good as the iPod anyway.) The point is that Apple's "vendor lock-in" for Windows iTunes/iPod customers isn't substantially different, if different at all, from that of most other legit music download outfits for Windows (at least, ones that offer lots of major label major releases). Moreover, iTMS files have far less obnoxious restrictions than most of them.
Fester's comments are just so much FUD, like most public comments by MS officials. I wouldn't trust anything they say any farther than I could comfortably spit an elephant.
Re:Has anybody noticed... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is probably a hardware/OS problem. Your sound card IRQ is being shared with your video card's IRQ. You can check this by running MSINFO32 --> hardware resources --> conflicts/sharing.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Apple will not sell OS X for PCs.
but you do have choice! (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets see, Airport [wireless + modem] iPod, apple cinema displays...all work with PCs too...but work even better with a mac. When apple REALLY figures this out [and they're starting to!] MS will finally have to pay the piper for abusing their market!
Re:Please remember. (Score:3, Insightful)
The point is, the only reason Apple is palatable at all, is that they weren't good enough to capitalize on the market like MS. I don't know if that's a good reason to support a company. I'm really not trying to start a flame-war here, and I'm sure I'll be attacked for casting any aspersions on the good name of Apple. Just for the record, I downloaded iTMS when it came out, and I like it a bunch so far. I just think the attacks on MS and the love for Apple can be hypocritical at times.
Re:The best choice? Guess again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly what limitations are you referring to, mr. vague? The only limitation I can possibly think of is the use of AAC for the music store files, but those can be easily transcoded into just about any format you want (wav, mp3, even wma by using an intermediary step). I'd hardly consider that a limitation. Yeah, you may lose *a bit* of quality by recompressing, but if you use a high enough recompression quality setting, you can really minimize that to the point it is a non-factor. Care to elaborate on the limitations now? I mean it rips into a multitude of formats (with very high levels of control over compression), it burns to DVD, CD in many different formats (MP3 CD, Audio CD, and Data CD), and has some of the best streaming support I've found in any music player, not to mention the ability to easily share your tunes over a network with no configuration outside of clicking a check box. I think it is a fantastic product, mac or windows, and I give kudos to Apple on a job well done.
Re:Microsoft is scared (Score:5, Insightful)
They should be scared.
August 2002 I bought an iPod. Loved it so a month later I bought a PowerBook, my first ever Mac.
September this year I bought a DP G5.
And I plan to replace my wife's PC with a Mac sometime soon.
Without the iPod I would never have even considered a Mac. Microsoft should be scared.
Re:Oh yeah.... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't? Last time I looked you could package any music as an mp3, aac, wav, or aiff and the iPod would happily play it without a hitch.
Re:Please remember. (Score:3, Insightful)
One could argue that if Apple had the majority market share, they wouldn't be trying as hard, or innovating as much, since they wouldn't need to. And Microsoft would either have much better products or be dead and gone, because their whole strategy right now is to protect and expand their monopolies, and they couldn't afford to put out such crappy products without monopoly revenue money to support them.
Re:The best choice? Guess again. (Score:1, Insightful)
BoHooo. Apple didn't use Microsoft's LOCKIN SOFTWARE.
Microsoft users should be Kissing Steve Job's BUTT.
Without Apple we'd all have NO ability to copy digitial content to more than one disk. At least with Apple I can backup my music. Or, give a copy to my mom, who won't buy it or probably listen to it.
No Bill will have to think of another scheme to rip off his users. Maybe partner up with those POPUP AD creators?
Re:Music Player Selection (Score:3, Insightful)
This is mistake that a lot of people make when compareing Microsoft and Apple; they assume that, like MS, Apple is a software company. They're not. Apple is a hardware company. All of their software products are linked to one of their hardware products. (And they sell the hardware, while they give the software away for free. Imagine that.)
Mac OS - Mac Computers (obviously)
iTunes (specificly iTunes 2+) - iPod
iChat AV - iSight
iDVD/iMovie - DVDR/CDRW Superdrive
They have no reason to go out of their way to make their software compatible with other people's hardware. That would be like asking ATI to write drivers for NVida's graphics cards, i.e. completely pointless.
Re:"Open up?" (Score:2, Insightful)
First point true, second point not true - additionally missing third point.
The missing third point..
Microsoft's contributed to the MPEG4 and AAC standards, as part of their codec development has been used in both.
The incorrect second point...
Microsoft does own WMA - but they are taking steps to opening the codec so that it is no longer just 'their baby' - watch the headlines and you will know what I mean.
Also WMA (Especially Version 9) has successfully tested better in sound reproduction than AAC and MP3s - so by saying it has little benefits over the older MP3 format is a little silly.
WMA (9 Series )offers all the bells and whistles of other technologies from lossless compression to advanced bit rate selections - including the ability to do Dolby 5.1, and now even Dolby 7.1 surround. Something not common or even doable in most of the other formats.
And for now, even though Microsoft 'owns' the WMA technology - in the Windows world the Player is free, the Encoders are free, even the ability to setup your own radio station server is free.
Some of these things Apple doesn't even offer and their technology is not even capable of doing.
Once WMA is opened, look for it to proliferate to other platforms with NO allegiance to Microsoft other than saying thank you Microsoft for the free codec technologies that you spent 100s of millions on in research. BTW this is something I don't foresee Apple ever doing with their products, but could be surprised.
It kills me that people make a career of complaining about Microsoft and their 'closed OSes' and 'closed Technologies' and see Apple as a saint, but Apple not only has a closed OS but closed hardware, and even restricts the users to what portable player they can use (other than a CD). Geesh.
This is especially amusing when the people that are whining are usually using Microsoft technologies themselves on other OSes and don't even realize it. (Technologies from simple things like UI innovations that are copied on the other platforms (Even OSX) to codecs and standards that Microsoft has created and GIVEN to the community) - MPEG4 codecs, CSS, etc, etc, etc...
And then you have the iPod, a great device, but seriously lacking in future features. It does not and will not support WMA until Microsoft literally gives Apple what they want.
But yet, the iPod is the device Apple WILL LET YOU use with iTunes, where Microsoft WMA format is available and used on over 300 portable devices that automatically interface with WindowsXP. Strange how Microsoft is strangling the market by letting all these companies use WMA formats for free. Geesh.
Even without the WMA support the iPod is not the sexiest portable Jukebox, nor was it even the FIRST. Look at the iRiver iHP as a good alternative for example. And with these devices and WMA you can have higher bit rates, and some of the portables will even do the fully Dolby 5.1 surround using WMA if you serious about moving music from party to party.
Re:"Open up?" (Score:3, Insightful)
I like OSX, so I hate to say this...
Do you have ANY idea the number of features in OSX that FIRST appeared in a MS OS?
Should we start with CUI and GUI basics like Select and Modify concepts and move all the way to the newer features being added to Panther?
We could even mention Chrome and other things from the MS research lab that SOMEHOW made it into the OSX Window Manager, even though Microsoft never released the product officially.
I know OSX has some great innovative ideas and technologies, but I serious doubt that MS's multi-billion dollar research facility is set up to just disassemble Apple's work.
It sure sounds good if you are trying to sell Macs, but in the real world of logic, it just doesn't play out.
Re:The best choice? Guess again. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Unless Apple decides to make radical changes to their service model, a Windows-based version of iTunes will still remain a closed system, where iPod owners cannot access content from other services," said Fester. "Additionally, users of iTunes are limited to music from Apple's Music Store
The gist of this is that people want to be able to interface with other systems and that because Apple doesn't let you do this - which is something Windows users expect - the service is "dismissed".
Well, well, Microsoft double-speak at its best again. Pass me some of whatever you're smoking, will ya? Because last time I checked, users of instant messaging want the same thing - interoperability - and Microsoft isn't letting them have it with their IM service.
Conclusion: Microsoft is pointing at a "flaw" that they would actually like to have in their own system once they reach the critical mass that iTunes has.
too limited?... please (Score:2, Insightful)