New PowerBooks, Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse 699
no_demons writes "This morning Apple iCEO Steve Jobs gave the keynote at the Apple Expo in Paris. The whole PowerBook line up got an upgrade, with the 15" model now sporting the much rumoured goods (1.25GHz, backlit keyboard, bluetooth, Airport Extreme), available from today. Apple also announced a new wireless keyboard and mouse."
"Cassie" is back? (Score:5, Interesting)
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-Sid
innovation (Score:4, Interesting)
Where's the innovation here? The mouse *still* has only one button (yeah, go ahead, start the button wars flame game) and, while the mouse has rechargable batteries, neither the kbd or mouse has a "dock" to plug in to so they can be recharged easily.
And, at ~140.00USD MSRP (more if you don't have a bluetooth-disabled Mac) for the Apple combo, it seems like the Logitech bundle would be a better choice.
Since Apple used bluetooth, they could have at least done something extra with the kbd (like add a mini-tablet area or speakers or *something*).
I sincerely hope this isn't the beginning of a (bad) trend.
Catching Up (Score:-1, Interesting)
My two cents.
encryption key? (Score:5, Interesting)
The notes say the keyboard uses encryption. I'm a little curious how the key is shared between the keyboard and the computer? At first I thought it might use a standard USB cable to connect to the computer and maybe charge rechargeable batteries, (seems like a good idea!) but it does say "no cables". Maybe you have to type a key in that's presented on the setup control panel? Although I suppose it could be exchanging keys with PGP or other public key technology.
It'd also be a nice touch if they'd have put USB ports on the keyboard, that could "tunnel" through the bluetooth back to the computer. Sure it's slow, but if you happen to have some other peripherals like a touchpad or multibutton mouse etc., that'd be a nice way to deal with some of the cord issues while maintaining compatibility with existing non-bluetooth peripherals.
Kudos to Apple though on a bluetooth optical mouse + bluetooth enabled laptop. I don't use an external mouse on my powerbook, but I can see this as "one less cable to plug in" when getting the 'book out of the bag. As it is, when I arrive home I plug in my speakers, ethernet (yes, I have 802 but cable is faster), firewire (for my pod), and power.
Real bluetooth keyboard?? (Score:3, Interesting)
can you use the keyboard with a t68i ?
regards
John Jones
Back to the iMac-days? (Score:3, Interesting)
And please make it match the feel of the new Powerbook-keyboards and aluminum-colored!
Re:innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
>one button (yeah, go ahead, start the button wars flame
>game)
I fail to see how a multi-button mouse qualifies as innovation? Logitech and Kensington have been making them for years.
>while the mouse has rechargable batteries, neither the
>kbd or mouse has a "dock" to plug in to so they can be
>recharged easily.
The question is how long do those batteries last. If I have to replace them once every five years that they aren't rechargeable doesn't matter. If I have to replace them every 48 hours its more of a problem.
I *imagine* apple did this to cut down on costs and because rechargeable batteries--particularly when you leave them plugged in all of the time, which most people would with their mouse when they weren't using it--tend to lose their ability to hold a charge so they go for less and less time. I do find their choice a bit odd, but I'm waiting to hear how long these batteries last before I decide whether it was a good decision on Apple's part.
>And, at ~140.00USD MSRP (more if you don't have a
>bluetooth-disabled Mac) for the Apple combo, it seems
>like the Logitech bundle would be a better choice.
I think you mean bluetooth-*enabled*. That said, if you think that Logitech offers the better deal, buy logitech. You can pick up your peripherals from the Apple store.
Personally, I place a wireless mouse and keyboard very very low on my list of priorities. Something akin to ducks and chainsaws or somesuch. Although, I honestly don't know, are the logitech keyboard's communications encrypted?
>Since Apple used bluetooth, they could have at least done
>something extra with the kbd (like add a mini-tablet area
>or speakers or *something*).
To what end? Who would those extras appeal to and for what price?
Re:encryption key? (Score:1, Interesting)
Then the keyboard would have to have a large capacity battery to power the ports => not a good idea
Economics 101 (Score:5, Interesting)
A commodity is only overpriced if one of two things is true:
1) It does not sell.
2) You have reliable evidence that a lower price point would have increased your earnings (note I did not say "unit sales").
We don't know if these things will sell yet. Simply.
In absence of evidence whether they will sell at *this* price point, we *certainly* don't have evidence that they would make more money by selling it at a lower price point.
You think they are overpriced? Don't buy them. For me personally it wouldn't matter whether they sold them at $20,000 or $5+S&H: I don't have a use for them.
Bluetooth Keyboard & mouse for use with the Pa (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Double Bah. (Score:3, Interesting)
as i'm sure you may have noticed.... (Score:3, Interesting)
does this not bring into mind the classic x86 BIOS message "Error 5: keyboard not FOUND. [press F1 to continue]"
seriously though, wireless USB protocol keyboards frighten me due to your keystrokes being transmitted in "plain sight." how is bluetooth and the 128-bit encryption any different? are there plans to allow a single bluetooth keyboard to work with many different computers (i.e. for administration just hit a switch on the device and you can flip to a different channel or something).
sure, use this wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, but to get either working initially we're gonna have to require that you use mental psychokinetic rays for dialog navigation. i'm sure somebody has the real scoop on this
so what it is?
Whoa whoa whoa... where'd the L3 cache go? (Score:4, Interesting)
My first thought about these updates was "maybe apple has finally put some L3 cache in the 12" model!" But when I went to check it out [apple.com], they had removed every mention of L3 cache on their pages. I doubt that they took the cache OUT of the larger models, so is this just an attempt at obfuscation by no longer mentioning the cache, or did they finally equalize the chipset?
Re:but why would...? (Score:3, Interesting)
And if you think Bluetooth has 'more bandwidth', you might want to look at the specs
-psy
Re:Apple is wrong... (Score:2, Interesting)
ATI 9600 (Score:3, Interesting)
One question, however: does anyone know if the drivers for the R300 series are (or will be) available for PowerPC?
iirc, the R300 has a binary-only DRI/xfree86 module for x86. Fine, but do they have it for PPC?
I know nVidia couldn't care less about linux/ppc - I wonder if ATI does (doubt it, for fear of pissing off Apple maybe?)
I'm also assuming the Airport Extreme card is still unsupported in Linux? That's not a big deal if you have a cardbus slot like on the 15" and 17", but it is a big deal on the 12" - having no wireless support whatsoever in Linux would be a bummer. (And I doubt you can put an old Airport card in them - if I remember correctly they didn't have the same interface)
Oh, and don't give me "MacOSX is at least as good as Linux" - It may be true, but I'd like to have a choice, if at all possible. There's a lot of Linux programs I've grown used to, and Fink, while good, doesn't cut it compared to Debian for instance.
It's hard to find a decent laptop. I wish the 12" came out with the ATI Radeon 9200.
Right now I'm hesitating between the Apple AlBook 15" and the Sony TR1 series. They both have issues with Linux though.
4200 RPM HD?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this lame? How much does it matter performance-wise?
lithium batteries :( (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess you haven't seen the WUXGA screens now shipping on HP/Compaq nx7000/x1000 or Dell's widescreen laptops. 1920x1200 resolution, 15.2 diagonal. I can't believe that Apple hasn't shipped a better screen than 1280x854 on it's 15 inch model. My 15.2inch HP has more pixels than the 17inch Powerbook! The picture is amazing. As a side note, the company that makes the Powerbooks for Apple (Compal), is the same one that makes those HP/Compaq notebooks, so I was half expecting 1920x1200 on the new Powerbook, what a let down...
Re:Airport (Score:2, Interesting)
Not for a long time! (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember that the G5 comes from the Power4, which was NEVER designed to be a low-power/low-heat CPU, it will NEVER be as suitable for laptop use as the 750-series will. Even with a major die-shrink and voltage drop, the G5 will STILL put out much more heat than the G4 did, and even that was too much.
Don't worry though, I'm sure IBM will be using a lot of what they developed for the G5 in the 'mojave' G3s. They might even be marketed as G4s or G5-mobiles because they will have roughly the same features.
where are the G5 Powerbooks? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
Sadly, there was never any research. It was more of an informal observation made by Jef Raskin, way, way, back when he saw users getting confused using the three button mice on the Xerox Alto.
And remember, the behavior of buttons back then was quite different to what we're used to now. There were no double clicks. There was no dragging. Naming conventions were awful (they were called red, yellow, and blue, but the buttons were in fact all black, and the screen wasn't in color). And the buttons all did different things in different programs, instead of exhibiting some standard behavior.
I don't think it was an awful decision -- Windows didn't significantly use the second button until the Win95 era. And the work done in making the first button very useful has been copied pretty much everywhere.
Though of course the anecdotes of people being confused by multiple buttons have not gone away, and I've seen it before. Both in terms of users knowing which button to push (primary or secondary) but forgetting which is left or right or accidently pressing the wrong one, and in terms of users not knowing which button to push.
At the very least, making the buttons seriously distinct should be on the agenda. Left and right isn't enough. They should be distinguished in terms of position, shape, size, resistance to pressure, texture, color, be given more prominent names, and have labels with those names on the mouse. Everything to make sure that people aren't going to mix them up.
Re:innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
Likewise, a triple-click could represent a center button action.
This is keeping with the concept of a simple interface. Power users can access advanced features through advanced actions.
Re:Bah... (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't even bother with ctrl-click, I just click/hold until the context menu pops up.. I'm never in -that- big of a hurry :)
But on another note, I've never taken issue with 1 mouse button.. it's pretty functional once you get used to it.. Plus my 3 button USB logitech works just fine when i'm at my desk and want a mouse or something with more than 1 button.. Seriously, what's the big deal?
Oh, and boycotting the new powerbooks until they add a second mouse button? That's just silly talk right there. Those powerbooks kick some serious ass, if I had the cash I'd have one on my desk right this minute I don't care if it has 1 mouse button or 10. Right now i'm using a lombard from '99 and it still kicks ass as my primary workstation. I have no issues spending that much coin on a system that's going to last me 4+ years (and still be powerful in 4+ years)
-matt
Re:Will they Learn? (Score:2, Interesting)
1) DVI port.
I think its a good solution for Apple in the long run. I simply carry my DVI-2-VGA port in my Brenthaven bag made for my Powerbook. Its one extra thing to forget, so are the power supply, modem and ethernet cables... As a 3D visualization guy, I wish Apple sold their desktops with dual DVI instead of having the propietary ADC. If I where to use Macs to drive two displays or for stereo imaging I'd need one of those damn expensive DVI to ADC adapters [apple.com](only $99.00). or ADC to DVI [gefen.com] ($39.00). Depending on the invested display hardware and usage.
2) One button mouse trackpad
Although, I've complained to the Apple reps numerous times about the lack of substitution from the one button mouse for the desktop models when configuring machines from the online Apple Store, I can see why it isn't feasible to customize the Powerbook to be one, two or even three button trackpad. I simply bought an IBM optical mouse with a scroll wheel and leave that at work. Our chairman has the identical Powerbook I use, but he uses a smaller portable version. IBM optical mouse [compusa.com] that works great. Just plugged it in and it works great
Re:Double Bah. (Score:2, Interesting)
NOBODY CARES ABOUT OGG VORBIS.
Right. Just thought I'd share. If you want Ogg support, download it. Nobody else gives a crap.
Re:mouse buttons - POWERbook specific (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Double Bah. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, I'd prefer to destroy software/algorithm patents, but the MP3 licenser (Fraunhofer?) doesn't seem to be nearly as unreasonable as some. That's "non-onerous", in my opinion.
The processor and the OS on board the iPod is what I'm glomming under the title of "firmware". I don't know if the MP3/AAC decoding is done by a general purpose DSP (that might be easy to adapt to OGG decoding) or if it's a hardware decoder, which would require a major hardware revision for what I believe is a pretty irrelevant improvement.
There have been posts elsewhere for how to get ogg playback in iTunes, so knock yourself out. iPod support is a different kettle of fish.
Re:makes sense (Score:4, Interesting)
---snip---
Let me tell you the wonderful story of the Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse. I got hold of one of these right after Christmas and went home to try it out. As I was putting the CD in the computer, I noticed that i said "MS XP only". I was running 2000 at the time (Now running RedHat 8). OK, so I couldn't use the Bluetooth device on my computer without paying additional MS tax.
OK, so I gave it to a friends girlfriend who had XP on the computer. She couldn't install it, so I went up to her to install the device. I put the CD in the machine and was told that I needed XP SP1 to do this. Fuckin' L. OK. The XP SP1 CD was included was after 30 minutes, it was installed on her computer. Reboot, and try the Bluetooth driver CD again. It seemed to install something but it soon told me that since I did not use the English, Spanish, French, German, Arabic, Chinese, Chinese (simplified), Japanese, Danish or Swedish language, the drivers could not be installed. (She had Norwegian installed) DAMN IT!
After the failed attempt to get the Microsoft product to work on another Microsoft product, I went to my mother to have a look at her new iBook. I though that just for kicks, I could put the MS Bluetooth dongle in the Mac USB port. So I did, and...
Go figure.
---snip---
I also attended an MS press conference this Monday, where they presented some new stuff. The only thing new about it all was the fact that the scroll wheel tilted sideways as well as scrolled. It was annoying as hell, and the only use I could imagine was for use in Excel spreadsheets, but none of the computers I treid had Excel installed on them.
The rest of the press conference was embarassing, it was just a collection of ripped off ideas like Bluetooth PAN integration (Available in Q2 2004 with Windows SP2) and a new chip in the optical mice, that make them last 6 months on two AAs. Just as long as my Logitech optical, that is.
Re:innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
The difference between a click-and-hold for a contextual menu and a click-and-hold for dragging something is, when you're dragging something, you move the mouse (farther than a threshold like 4px) within a certain amount of time (say, 500ms or so) after clicking. This means there's a delay before a contextual menu will appear, so it does slow you down a bit - and, if you mean to drag but don't move soon enough after clicking, you'll get a contextual menu instead (this can frustrate newbies but once you get used to it it's not a major problem).
Re:innovation (Score:3, Interesting)
That would mean if I actually wanted to single-click on something, the app would have to wait until it was sure I wasn't going to click again before performing the single-click action. Doesn't matter for icons in the Finder, does matter for links on a web page.
The alternative actually used is a simple click-and-hold [slashdot.org].