Panther Analysis Getting Underway 463
Durin_Deathless writes "Think Secret has posted their first article analyzing the changes from Mac OS X 10.2 to 10.3. In this first installment, they look at the changes to the Installation, System Requirements, the Finder, and some other things.
They have some nice images available too."
I love the Places sidebar! (Score:0, Insightful)
Now I know that in column view it is much easier to move a file within one windows. I do appreciate the way the window scrolls if you hold the file close to the edge of the Finder window. But still...
Re:Brushed metal (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Brushed metal (Score:4, Insightful)
But you know, the Human Interface Guidelines are just that--guidelines. They aren't scripture.
Then again, where are we without rules to follow? UI consistency is worth the effort, right?
I find these both interesting ideas, not really subscribing to the HIG as the Bible and not really seeing them as something to look at but not pay attention to.
Thoughts?
I don't think it works that way. (Score:4, Insightful)
So what you're asking is already possible with 32-bit PPC systems.
Re:"They have some nice images available too." (Score:3, Insightful)
The right one is: Did anyone mirror the images and is dumb enough to post link on slashdot?
Re:This looks like a strong release (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows had an alpha channel since windows 2000. It's just not hardware accelerated like Jaguar (and soon Panther).
From what I've seen of Longhorn, it has abilities similar to Quartz Extreme. For example, they have a rippling window demo they showed at MS's last conference.
But how useful is rippling windows? I think in general, when it comes to technology, it's not a matter of who has the best tech, but who uses their tech in the most useful way, which Apple seems to do.
Saddening (Score:5, Insightful)
It saddens me to see such so much anti-Apple sentiment in this discussion. I am mainly a PC user, and I probably will always be a PC user, for reasons I won't bring up here, but I've used Apples before and they aren't bad computers. For example, the video and multimedia capabilities on MacOS can be matched nowhere else. And my short encounters with MacOS X have been very enjoyable.
So take this anti-appleism elsewhere. You're ruining the experience for others.
What the new finder means to you (potentially) (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Panther doesn't run on G5's (Score:2, Insightful)
Bob
Re:Panther doesn't run on G5's (Score:4, Insightful)
This gets my vote for funny. Apple won't ship any new features with 10.2.7, least of all Expose, but will save them for Panther when they can charge for it.
Re:Panther doesn't run on G5's (Score:1, Insightful)
1) There is no reason at all to believe that 10.2.x would run on the G5's and 10.3 would not.
2) 10.2.7 will include some hacks of 10.3? Huh? Why would APple waste time on adding those to 10.2.x if they did not have 10.3 working on the G5?
3) 10.2.7, from all accounts, is mainly going to be an update to Jaguar allowing it to run on 64 bit computers.
4) From all accounts, recompiling the OS to run on 64 bit will require little more than some tweaks and recompiling. In other words - if they have 10.3 running on G4's, it will take little effort to make it run on G5's. [Note I said "run". Takng full advantage of 64 bit is something else entirely, and will take a couple of years]
5) That makes no sense. You are a troll. And I cannot believe I am responding to you. But you did get moderated up, so...
6) BIGGEST POINT: Who cares if Panther would not run on them. Apple obviously has 10.2.7 running on them. People will buy the machines now knowing they can upgrade later. You contradict yourself. You say Apple has no OS for them, but then go on to talk about 10.2.7 (which has to run somewhat well for Apple to get all of the speed tests done to run the demo)
Python 2.3 will be included (Score:2, Insightful)
It sounds like Apple has begun using Python for more of their core features. For now all we know it will be used for "PDF Generation Workflow".
This is great news as the Python 2.2 included with OSX 10.2 was a bit broken on the OSX platform.
I've never used OSX, but I am impressed that they ship Python with the standard release. I sure wish Windows would do this too, then there really would be a sweet crossplatform development language
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/p
The New Un-Aqua (Score:5, Insightful)
mac-mods (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, I think Taco needs to make the whole meta-mod thing maybe topic-specific - so if the mac-heads keep modding everything mac related as troll, then they lose the ability to mod mac-threads.
Note that I'm posting as AC as I have no doubt that this will, in fact, be modded into oblivion by a mac-head.
-1: Copyright Infringement (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy is even karma-whoring by not posting anonymously.
-Esme
Re:Expose! (Score:1, Insightful)
Speaking of virtual desktops, I've set my Panther up to have multiple users up with different environments: Admin, Web, [myusername], etc. Then have started using the "Fast Login" feature to switch between environments. Sounds like a kludge, I know, but I'm enjoying the multiple Docks optimized for different purposes, multiple desktop paterns and multiple permissions.
Re:Serious Bluetooth Issues (Score:4, Insightful)
out of the box? there is no box to be out of. you're running a beta OS at best. they have misspelled words, non functional apps etc. of course there's stuff that doesn't work.
on the off chance that you're one of the few developers who are SUPPOSED to have this, i would expect you to shrug this off as typical in a beta build. otherwise this sucker comes with zero promises or warrenties.
Not quite (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally I don't like the idea of having the "shortcuts" to the left like in windows xp. I'm pretty sure it's just something Apple created so windows switchers would feel at home. In windows the shortcuts are direly needed since everything is so difficult to find. In OS X the stuff are placed logically, no shortcuts needed. Plus, you can already in Jaguar place shortcuts in the top menu.
Ciryon
Re:I love the Places sidebar! (Score:2, Insightful)
OK, what if you want to:
(Admittedly doable after a bit of under-the-hood hacking, but you've just stretched your metaphor rather thin.)
I suppose Apple could implement the cut'n paste metaphor and restrict its use to intra-volume files. But they didn't want newbies worrying their pretty little heads about volumes, partitions, and networks. So is Mr Newbie going to use cut'n paste (which only works within this here 'volume' thingy), or is Mr Newbie going to use move 'n duplicate, which doesn't require any knowledge about volumes?
Re:Expose! (Score:2, Insightful)
That's the truth. I mean, it's bad enough that the dead tree manual is a joke, but there are missing man pages! I have to ssh to my linux box to look up some commands. Apple's own commands are often entirely undocumented and don't respond to --help or -h.
Re:Don't forget that it's patented. (Score:3, Insightful)
You get to complain about apples support of open source the day you create the second most popular operating system in the world, and then choose to open source it!
There are more computers out there running OS X than Linux, and if Apple hadn't decided to pay more than lipservice to open source, that wouldn't be the case.
Microsoft pays lip service to open source. Apple has earned, and deserves, your respect.
After their technology was stolen from them for 20 years, they decided to start protecting it. Good for them.
Open source isn't about pirating technology- it is about the creators of innovations freely sharing that technology.
Hell, if Apple had been awarded the patent they'd applie for way back when, we wouldn't have the Microsoft goliath making our lives miserable today. (And if you think Apple is just as bad, or worse than Microsoft, your living in your own reality distortion field.)
New interface + speed (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to suggest a reason for this: the new interface seems to lack some of the transparency that was present in Jaguar. This could make it much faster, since transparency, even as handled by Quartz Extreme, still takes a bit more time than no transparency-- especially with fade-in effects.
Try it on Jaguar: Use Unsanity's Fruit Menu to turn off transparency in the menus and see that they drop down instantaneously rather than fading in.
Of course, I could be horribly mistaken...
Re:Because, As We All Know... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it wasnt' a disaster. Not everyone agrees.
In fact, as someone who's read virtually every UI book I can get my hands on, I'd like to point out that it works as a metaphor. And that's what UIs are supposed to do.
I don't know why people hate brushed metal so much, it doesn't make sense to me.
And you don't hear people going on and on about he garish clash of colors in Windows, or Linux... ugh, the best things in the Linux and Windows LaF (which are pretty similar to begin with) are still worse than the worst things in Apple's LaF.
As far as good consistent UI goes, Apple rules the roost.
If you read the parent, read this, too (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with a good deal of what you've said, but I have several major complaints (this IS Slashdot, after all):
2. Column view still lacks sorting by anything other than 'name' in column view. I would suggest adding sorting options via a contextual menu.
No. You should never have settings or options available only via contextual menus, which a TON of users never even see. If they're in a contextual menu, find a place elsewhere for them, as well.
3. Fonts, HTML, EPS and any file handled by quicktime should be previewable right in the finder.
I don't agree with this, either. Perhaps QuickTime, but why everything else? Why not let the Finder do what everyone has bitched about the Finder being bad at since the beginning of OS X, and be a good navigation tool? (I like Jag's Finder, but nothing is ever perfect.) Concentrate on making the Finder let you find shit first and foremost. It doesn't need to be a Swiss Army Knife, it just needs to pass font files to the FontBookThingy app. Bing, done.
4. Contextual menus need to be smarter. For example if I click on a font or a saver file I should be able to send it to it's proper folder.
Same thing as the first point. Contextual menus should only provide a convenient grouping of commonly used commands that pertain to the object you've clicked on to generate the contextual menu you're looking at.
This may also confuse more people, since you have your font folder and the system's font folder. How do you distinguish between the difference(s) for the average (non-geek) user?
6. Finder windows still take up too much screen real estate. If apple used small scrollbars it would save a significant # of pixels per window.
The scroll bars and window title bars are the same size in OS X and OS 9. For example, the window title bars are 22 pixels tall in both 9 and X.
11. The admin should be able to control what kind of finder window a user sees and they should be able to control which drives/folders are available within the finder window.
Hmm . . . I agree with the second half of that, as long as you're not restricting items in someone's home folder (duh), but that first part is an interesting point. Should a user be forced to see certain styles of windows for different folders? I dunno.
Perhaps only if the admin couldn't screw with the window of a folder that belonged to them. I think that's how Jaguar does it, but I'm really not sure.
12. A new (better) folder design would be appreciated.
What's wrong with the current folder icon? Get a system icon replacement thingie from ResExcellence or wherever.
13. There should be an option to turn disk images into folders (this is what users normally want to do with downloaded images).
Apple does something similar with "Internet-enabled disk images". I think they're shitty, though, since I can't look at a .dmg file and tell that it's going to delete itself once I double-click it. Some of us like to back up the things we download, and self-trashing .dmgs totally screw that up.
1. Exposé is fantastic, but it still does not solve the problem of minimized windows (it does not show windows minimized to the dock although it probably should). While minimized windows will be used less often when users get the hang of Exposé, there is still a need for some sort of windowshading that allows for speedy one or two click window swapping. I personally miss having windowshade from OS 9 and had a haxie installed to add this behavior. Even better is minimize-in-place hack from unsanity which recently became available. I have found shading invaluable in production. The standard OS X minimize/maximize simply takes too long to swap between windows and windows get lost in the dock. Also exposé, does not solve the problem of window clutter (many of our designers are clean desktop sort of people), while some s
Re:Brushed metal (Score:2, Insightful)
We've seen app developers flock quickly to new frameworks included with each new version Mac OS X, rendering older versions of Mac OS X unable to run new applications.
Re:I don't get the Places sidebar (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Because, As We All Know... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now we're getting somewhere. You find the size of the buttons offensive. That doesn't make them bad UI. The most noticeable button is also the most frequently used one. You know--the one mapped to the space-bar. I can't really argue with the fact, that there is a minimum size the player window will have. That means you can't realistically display more than 6 windows at the same time on a 1024x768 screen. I have no idea how many users feel that this is a problem. If we stay as unscientific as humanly possible and take you and me as sample group, then I would guess that it could be about 50%. If the problem is about having the movie playing in the background then I don't see how player size keeps anyone from doing that.
Intiutive? Clicking the timecode in the window to get to balance, treble, and bass controls is
You're right. Clicking on the icon (and even though it is animated, it still is an icon) displaying the sound levels of the movie you are watching should not display the controls for modifying sound properties. What where they thinking?
Re:Brushed Metal window frames (Score:3, Insightful)
Finder and Safari aren't single window.
OS X versions reflect hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple went out of its chromatic phase in a blaze of glory with the regrettable "Blue Dalmatian" and "Flower Power" iMacs. Ever since then they've moved in a more elegant direction, with no more dramatic change than the shift from colorful, purse-like iBooks to today's snowy variant. OS X has looked dated in comparison -- it did its job too well. It's no coincidence that as brushed metal themes are emerging more and more often, especially in the new Finder, that the new G5's following suit.
bring back the purse (Score:4, Insightful)