12" PowerBook Wobble?

RedWingsSuck asks: "I recently purchased a 12" PowerBook from ADC. I absolutely love it, but I have noticed an interesting little issue. As it warms up, other users have said the case gets as hot as 120 degree F, it develops a wobble on a flat surface, like a table or something. As it gets warmer, the wobble gets worse. When I first noticed it, I thought I had lost a rubber peg from the bottom, but apparently my problem is not that simple. While on spring break, in San Diego, I went to the Apple Store there, and I was told that a few other people have had this problem, and that if I had purchased the PowerBook from there, they would have replaced it with a new one. Then I called Apple Care, and they told me that they were just informed of this problem. Has anybody else had this problem, if so, what did Apple say about it?"

You need a Cool Pad

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool Pad [coolpad.com].

Re:You need a Cool Pad

[The Herbaliser]

My dad has one of those for his TiBook. They're pretty good. He was having problems with it shutting down on its own when it got really hot, and he hasn't had any problems since.

I've got it, too...

[American AC in Paris]

I have the 12" PB and it does indeed wobble on flat surfaces, esp. as it heats. Overall, it's a pretty minor thing, but I gave the local Apple Store (Towson, MD) a ring to see what they knew.

They said that they hadn't heard of any problems with it (are all the feet there?) but if I wanted to bring it in, they'd be happy to have a technician look at it.

Really, though, it's a fairly minor annoyance, though it's probably the biggest "problem" I'd say the machine has. I've had it for about a month now.

See here

[Erect Horsecock]

They already now about this [apple.com]

Well to keep it short the reader basically explain how to BEND THE CASE so it no longer wobbles.
Also see this thread [infopop.net] on Ars Technica that is about the 12" and its wobble issue.

Yes, I definitely have this problem.

[Cecil]

I've found that propping the left rear corner with a nickel works just about perfectly. Not under the rubber foot, just slid in until it presses against the side of the rubber foot.

I am surprised to find that this is actually a problem with the laptop, I had just assumed that it was my cheapo desk that was warped. Although I hadn't noticed this problem with my last laptop, it had much bigger, more flexible feet that I assumed had compensated for the sucky desk.

While we're on the topic of Powerbook annoyances, I am disappointed that they removed the battery backup capacitor from the 12" Powerbook. My friend has a 15" Powerbook, and he can put his computer to sleep, remove the battery, to put in a fully charged one, and the computer does not have to be shut off. They apparently removed this feature from the 12" Powerbook, what a shame. That was one of those tiny but oh-so-nice features that made me want to buy an Apple rather than a PC.

Re:This story looks bogus

[tarus]

Flame bait?

Take a loaded 12" Powerbook, 20 GB iPod, keyboard, mouse, USB hub, 3 year warranty, Soundsticks, airplane adapter, spare battery, and spare power supply and it adds up. As I mentioned, I switched hard.

Stupid? Yes. Bogus, no.

Out of the Box

[mizidymizark]

I work for a center that has one of the 12" Powerbooks and coming out of the box, the computer wobbled. After giving it a minor twist, it seemed to fix the problem, but it definately comes back after it heats up. Now when it cools down though, the wobble does go away, so it appears a little twist may solve the problem. Although the only reason I did that is because it isn't my computer and it is under warranty.

Nope, no problem here

[sobiloff]

I've had my 12" PB for a little over a week now, and it hasn't exhibited this problem at all. The only problem I've had with it was the "B" keytop wouldn't stay attached to the keyboard. I brought it in to my local Apple store and they replaced a broken plastic bit underneath the keytop in about 30 seconds (and for free).

Which hard drive do you have? Its the hard drive that generates the heat folks complain about. I have the 60GB hard drive, and I've measured 110 degrees (F) at the worst. It doesn't really bother me since my hand tends to rest on the outside of my palm, where the case is much cooler, but I can understand it'd be bothersome for others.

Grab the handle...

[nettdata]

I'm not sure if they've made them for the non-15" PB's yet, but I _HIGHLY_ recommend grabbing yourself one of those aftermarket Ti Handles (as seen here [macworld.com]).

My whole development team has 15" PB's and they "suffer" from heat issues (no wobbly stuff reported) but that has all but disappeared since using the handles. (It gets the laptop up off table allowing for a bit more cooling).

Now the fan only kicks in when doing a monster Fink compile for an hour or three.

PowerBook experience

[elliotj]

While we're all trading experiences, I'll share my thoughts on my TiBook 800Mhz.

Executive summary: I love it. It is the best machine I have ever owned.

Caveat: You need to add a few things to it for it to become truly great.

Heat was/is an issue with this laptop as with all powerbooks. Fortunately, the TiBook doesn't have the drop back screen so you can add a tote 'n tilt handle to give the undercarriage lots of room to breathe. Believe it or not, but this handle means that my system fan now only ever comes on if I play a 3D game or DVD. Otherwise, I run cool and silent. Say that about your 12" AlBook if you can!

Airport could be better. If this becomes an issue, you can get a PCMCIA wifi card to boost signal. No worries there anymore.

Other than that, I tweak this heck out of OS X using themes, CodeTek Virtual Desktop, Fruit Menu, ASM and other great haxies.

In all cases, I believe (as one tends to) that my additions ought to be part of the base system. But that's ok. At least I can add them. So far I haven't seen a viable, portable solution to the heat, wobble problems on 12" 'books and that's a shame b/c they look so cool, and I honestly believe the Apple Powerbook line is the very best laptop line on the market. Certainly the TiBook is.

No wobble here

[bpb213]

My powerbook is only about a week old. (12").

I havent noticed any wobble when using it, but i also havent really encountered any "scorching" tempuratures yet. (ie, yes, it gets really hot, but i can still hold my hand on it)

I have noticed that the plastic lining around some of the edges doesnt quite meet the metal shell, but thats a small issue.

But as it stands, I havent seen or felt any real distortion in the case.

I've not had it...

[paploo]

Just to help keep reports balanced, neither of the 12" PowerBooks I've owned have had the wobble problem. They get pretty hotsometimes (although resettin the PMU seems to help with that sometimes), but mine always sits flat.

Re:early adopters beware

[bckspc]

Mr. Coward speaks the truth. I had all kinds of trouble with drive corruption on my rev 1 15". It was an utter nightmare. I've been on a rev 2 15" now for a couple of months and have not had any trouble at all. It's a dream.

(Knock on wood.)

Re:How strange

[jo_ham]

Not exactly true, no, although that would be cool!

The iBook's plastic case is polycarbonate, which is the same material used to make bullet proof glass. You have to make it in a certain way (resins and laminate layers) for it to be bullet proof though.

The iBook case is a single layer, solid piece of polycarbonate, painted white on the inside. It is more brittle than ABS (the cheap plastic used in most plastic things like PC laptops, cellphones etc), but it is tougher. It's slightly less elastic too, and will tend to fracture if it is stressed too much (ABS will deform plastically first, then crack).

Re:Just wait until the rubber feet fall off

[hugh_mcchain]

That's very interesting. Try 'sony laptop problem' and you get 90,900. Still not as much as 'apple laptop problem' but Apple's been making laptops for many moons longer. Though sony actually made the the Powerbook 100, if I remember correctly. So it's almost ironic.

Powerbook Wobble Update

[RedWingsSuck]

I originally posted this about a month ago, but nothing has really changed. I called Apple Care, and they said that they were still looking into it. Hopefully, something will happen soon. As far as the heating goes, my AiBook doesn't really get overly hot, I have just read reports of them getting up to 120 F. I love this little PB, even with the wobble, currently I just stuff my screen protector under it, but I don't think that I should have to. I have read the suggestions to "bend" it back into shape, but I'm not brave enough to try that.

our group has been talking about this for months

[Photo_Designer]

I set up a yahoo group for i2 inch powerbooks a few days after I ordered mine in Feb. We have been talking about this issue off and on for months now. Some have taken theirs back and gotten new ones, one person had an apple store employee actually "bend" it back into shape, others talk about the battery being the issue. I am on the phone now trying to get a missing rubber foot replaced through Apple Care. I must say, like many others have, this is the only issue I have had. I love my PB12. The yahoo grou is here, please join if you own one.

12inchPowerBooks [yahoo.com]

-Jim

Re:nasty

[tarzan353]

Well, it's a good thing laptop hard drives don't go 7200 then.

Substance of lawsuit against Apple

[Zhe Mappel]

While on spring break, in San Diego, I went to the Apple Store there, and I was told that a few other people have had this problem, and that if I had purchased the PowerBook from there, they would have replaced it with a new one.

Let's not jump to any conclusions. However, what you describe above is, in fact, close to the substance of the allegations in one of the three pending lawsuits brought against Apple this year by authorized dealers (i.e., resellers, not Apple Stores). One of the claims holds that Apple treated dealers with prejudice when it came time to handling customer problems under warranty. Surely, if the product is under warranty and was purchased from an authorized dealer, and if Apple Stores are replacing defective units, then you ought to investigate a possible exchange, too.

IANAL. I am -- knock on wood -- a happy iBook owner, and I make no claim either way about the veracity of these suits. I'm merely noting a point of similarity; draw your own conclusions:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-983350.html

Re:How strange

[jo_ham]

Toughness and brittleness are two different properties of a material, at least in an engineering perspective.

It's possible to have a very tough material that is very brittle - like ice for example, or high carbon steel.

It's also possible to have a brittle matierial that isn't all that tough, like glass.

On the other hand, you can have tough steels that are not very brittle - like plain carbon steel. The trade off for losing that brittleness is a reduction in hardness in this case. Cobalt chrome is like this too - almost impossible to work, very tough, very hard, and not brittle.

There are lots of material properties to consider when selecting something for a job - toughness, brittleness, hardness, young's modulus (elasticity), density, cost etc.

I'll see your 12" wobble, and raise you 3 screens!

[nigel_q]

Here's my powerbook 12" story... It started on March 4th, and it STILL hasn't ended. I go to my University's (Queen's) computer store, interested in buying a 12" powerbook. They have one in stock, and reluctantly unpack it from the factory case so that I can look at it. Its tiny size, fit, and finish challenge and excite me, so I pull out my credit card, ready to buy! But on the way out, the saleswoman notices a scratch on the screen - a very large one. They try cleaning the screen (with a swiffer pad), but it doesn't come off. Not willing to pay full price for damaged goods (or willing to wait for this unit to be repaired), I reluctantly place an order for a different unit. Three weeks later to the day, I get a call saying the new unit is in! I hurry to the store and pick it up... I take it to work, and show it off to all the co-workers. I notice that it doesn't sit flat on tables, and wobbles noticeably... Then, I notice there's a scratch on the screen of this unit as well, near the right hand side, vertical down almost the entire length. Disgusted, I call the Campus Computer Store and tell them this. They "look into it", and ask me if there was a protective film on the screen of the unit when I unpacked it. There was not, just a piece of foam between the keyboard and the screen. The salesman said that there was a recall on such units, as this film is supposed to be placed on the unit during assembly so that the screen isn't scratched during assembly, and that if I return the unit, they'll happily order me another one. But not until I return it. And it'll take another 3 weeks. Apple is a reasonable company, and I hoped they could do better than 3 weeks. So I called them, and talked to their hardware support people. After about an hour of whining, they recommended that I take the computer to the local Authorized Service Provider for repair, rather than replacement of the unit. At the time, this was the best Apple was willing to offer. This did not sit well, as that would make the unit the equivalent of a factory reconditioned machine by the time I'd get to use it... If I had wanted a factory recon, I would have bought one and paid less for it. Anyway, I called the service provider to inquire, and they said that it would take 7 weeks at least for the parts to come in, as a supply chain for repair parts has not yet been established. They also pointed out that the screen is assembled with glue, not screws and snaps... So to replace the LCD panel, they'd have to pry it apart and re-glue it, resulting in something that would not be like the original unit at all in terms of fit and finish. I noticed this machine had other problems, too. It got very hot, and randomly locked up (not a kernel panic, a complete freeze). I wasn't able to run the quick-restore DVD, as it kept freezing during the restore process. The very next day I returned the unit, which did not even boot by this time, as the quick-restore was a failure and refused to work. The store was good enough to give me a full refund while waiting for the replacement. Three weeks later, the store called to inform me another unit was in. This would be the THIRD 12inch powerbook I'd come in contact with. I paid them, and excitedly took the unit home. Imagine my suprise when THREE WEEKS LATER, the THIRD unit had a severely scratched screen as well! Again, no film on the panel, just the foam spacer. The likelyhood of this machine and the one from three weeks previous being "next to each other" on the assembly line seemed very remote, so I called Apple again. At first, the hardware tech strongly recommend that I repair the unit. Out of general principals, this suggestion offended me. I explained the story to them again, calmly, claiming I didn't understand how this could have happened again (as I really didn't). I told them about the recall the saleman told me about, and stressed that this was the THIRD time this had happend to me. The woman transferred me to a customer relations specialist... The customer relations people are great! They have the power to get things

More on my experience/comments from Apple reseller

[@madeus]

Yeah I know had a lot of problems with mine, but they were _all_ generic problems with the design. :/ Not everyone had all these problems, but then not everyone will use their laptop nearly as much I used mine.

e.g. The DVD drive ruining discs, weakness in the white plastic frame due to overstress, the keys coming of the keyboard when I typed, excessive heat, origional power supply litteraly coming apart, hard disk dying within 2 months (cheap Tosh braned HD, as opposed to IBM Travelstar, which I replaced it with myself), insane amounts of paint flaking, unsafe amounts of head distribution, battery charging issues, sleep (& wake from sleep) issues, etc.

I'm not bitter about them, they were to some extent unforseable problems that would be difficult to spot without real world usage and you expect a few problems with cutting edge 1st versions of complicated consumer products.

The annoying part for me is that despite addressing: the keyboard, dvd drive, hard disk manufacturer, power supply, paint, the the strain put on the plastic frame, the head dissipation, the sleep/wake from sleep issues the new modles _still_ have more problems that (AFAIC) is reasonably acceptable.

Interesting comments from a big Apple reseller here in London when I was talking to him about getting a new Apple laptops just a few weeks ago...

He said the 15" models still have loads of issues due the size/weight/design compromises and recommended against getting one. He said the 17" ones were much sturdier and seemed less prone to strain/breaking but that they had had a few problems already with it, but that the smaller 12" seemed to be best (which I agree with, it's clearly much more sturdy, more like an iBook).

The iBook design is not as nice asthetically IMO, but it's *much* tougher.

Re:Is Apple Care worth $330?

[Jord]

If you are planning on keeping the machine for 2+ years more then I would say that it is absolutely worth it.

Since you work or will be working in the computer industry, that laptop is one of your most important possessions. Treat it like your most valuable tool and keep it under warranty.

I see the extended warranty like health insurance for your computer. $100.00 per year for health insurance on your laptop is a great deal.

Re:Is Apple Care worth $330?

[faeryman]

my 2 cents: I bought a Pismo 2 years ago for around $2200 US but did not go for the AppleCare. Like any well-used laptop it's gotten its share of problems. Right now it's sitting, unused in my bedroom because (A)the battery holds a charge for all like 45 minutes now (B)the power adaptor came loose from the constant wear and tear of plugging it in to charge (C)the DVD drive is the known defective 8x one that won't mount a disk but about 1 in 10 tries. Repairs would easily cost $600-800 for those from Apple. *

My Sawtooth G4 has worked, flawlessly, for about 4 years. No problems at all, but then again it just sits on my floor.

I would say buy the AppleCare if you have a laptop. A year or two down the road when your battery is dead, or the optical drive is funky, and the screen has the keymarks on it, and etc the $300 AppleCare can easily fix those.

(* Maybe it's not too late to get AppleCare? I doubt it. :( )