Beige Box Apple Clone? 533
steve.m writes "Finally it looks like I'll be able to get a cheap box to run MacOSX on, but not from Apple! John Fraser is (sort of) getting into the clone business 5 years after Apple shut down their 3 year long 'experiment' in licensing the hardware. Based on off the shelf apple components in a custom pizza box style case with no bolted on display, a barebones 'iBox' will be around 300 USD and require a processor, disk and memory (and the OS). Complete systems (again, without the OS) should start at around 650 USD."
What will you run on it? (Score:1, Insightful)
Don't think for a second Apple won't enforce it. That doesn't mean they will shut this guy down, but I'm sure they'll put "if (running_on_dudes_clone) exit()" in their next OS update.
Who do people think Apple is, Red Hat? They don't WANT clones to exist. Heck, Apple developers don't want clones to exist either. That's how Apple has avoided the pains in the ass that Windows has to put up with. You know exactly what machine your software/hardward is plugged into.
I give this guy maybe a year before he goes out of business.
Spare Parts (Score:5, Insightful)
Spare parts price (Score:3, Insightful)
The free market has some laws.
Bye!
brand confusion (Score:5, Insightful)
apple legal is going to go after him for creating brand confusion and misleading the consumer into thinking the "ibox" is an apple product.
I wish him luck, but I bet he's going to get squashed by apple legal.
clones are bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Spare Parts (Score:5, Insightful)
--
Evan
Re:What will you run on it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently you're not aware that he is using Apple hardware. Apple motherboards to be precise.
Now, I'm not saying this guy's going to have a booming business: Apple may go after him for using the iBox name or try to cut off his motherboard supply, but others have done this before (Marathon Computers springs to mind).
Even if Apple does cut off his motherboard supply he may still eek out a niche business selling the enclosures (i.e. "add your own motherboard")
Going into this blind... (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck to you sir, but I think you need to open your eyes. Just because you're an Apple fan and a "hobbyist" doesn't mean they won't severely fuck you over.
Apple does not want anyone else making a box to run Mac OS X. If you're using Apple spare parts, I would imagine that supply route can and will be cut very quickly.
Re:Spare Parts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What about Terrasoft? Can't their machines run (Score:3, Insightful)
The article states the motherboards from Apple have the Apple ROMS that allows OS X to boot. I would assume the Terrasoft boards don't contain an Apple ROM chip.
TINAA (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple will jump hard on you for that. It's going to be very difficult to convince a judge that you're not trying to fit this in with the i-mac and the i-book. In fact, I'd say it will be impossible.
The only way to win this lawsuit is to have deeper legal pockets than Apple. Don't try.
Name it something else like: TINAA. It stands for This Is Not An Apple. It sounds good to me, though I haven't researched the IP issues. A quick Google only turned up Finish and apparently one proper name.
Good luck!
Re:Apple's business model (Score:5, Insightful)
In addition, there are probably more Apple loyalists than there are loyalists to any particular PC brand, given how commoditized and cutthroat the PC platform is (well, for desktops anyway).
Re:clones are bad (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it just sucks! Heh. C'mon you asked for that one.
Seriously, though. Apple will no longer control the platform from hardware to OS to some key applications. The fact that they DO have this control gives them the ability to provide a super slick experience to users. It also allows them to do things like firewire/imovie/idvd. Suddenly they took a previously high-end arcane technology (digital video editing) and put it on the shelf all friendly and prettified for anyone with ~$1200. Even less now!
Clones will kill that ability. And, make no mistake, it IS that ability that is keeping Apple in business after all these years. Those who don't understand this don't understand Apple's business.
Re:Uh huh... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not entirely sure about this. Apple releases a $100+ OS upgrade which most Mac users buy every 2 years or so. The hardware upgrade cycle for a Mac is 4-6 years (twice as long as for a Pc, don't ask me why), so software sales just from the OS are a big chunk of Apple's income, add in other Mac apps, and the percentage goes up.
Another key source of income for Apple is their AppleCare package, which gives minimum-hastle repairs / replacements to people who break thier Macs. This would not be availible to iBox users, so would help to differentiate the Apple brand.
If this guy can sell to the 'I want a Mac, but can't afford one' crowd, but not poach many of Apple's potential customers, then this will provide Apple with a small amount of extra income from OS and component sales, and a potentailly large market share increase, which will benefit Apple hugely.
I know people still using 604 and early G3 based Macs, who can't afford to upgrade to a new Mac. Do you think Apple would rather that they were using a Windows box, or a non-Apple built Mac?
If Apple can still supply inovative machines with a higher build quality, then there will be a place for them, and if they control the OS, they control the platform (How relevant is IBM, how relevant is MS?). Apple will have to work hard to offer something that this guy doesn't, but I suspect that they could.
Of course they'll probably sue him out of existence, but hey, I can hope.
For myself, I can say that if these boxen were availible today, then I would be a Mac user. Since they are not, I am still a PC user. If I were a Mac user, then my next box, or possibly the one after that would be a genuine Apple box because, let's face it, they're so much more cool than the iPizza.
Which reminds me, my pizza dough has probably finished rising now, so I shall stop rambling and go and turn it into food. Mmmm, pizza....
Linux/BSD PPC and nothing more (Score:1, Insightful)
Basically, this is an "OK" idea if you're vehemently opposed to giving Apple your $xxx for their OS and want to use a PPC based *nix because you've got something against x86 and can't afford an IBM PPC box or other alternative hardware (Alpha, Sparc, etc).
It goes without saying there are Apple hardware collectors that just buy obscure hardware to say they have it. There's always a market for them. "Look I got one of 500 iboxes before he got shut down!"
Re:What will you run on it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:brand confusion (Score:3, Insightful)
Last I checked, Apple didn't have a trademark on the letter "i".
Move along, folks, nothing to see here... (Score:2, Insightful)
On the contrary, those who purchase these systems could be in for some serious headaches if they ever need tech support. I can't see Mr. Fraser being able to take his hobby seriously if he's personally getting phone calls from nebie users in Dallas, Topeka, and Seattle. Don't get me wrong, I wish Mr. Fraser much happiness and little frustration in his hobby. He has very little hope (and, it appears, no desire) to make this in any way a threat to Apple's business model.
Apple's best strategy in this case is to ignore the close and 2khappyware [2khappyware.com] give a real-world example of the differences between a small-time clone and a bona fide Apple.
from iBox to iDiot (Score:2, Insightful)
Now if this guy sells you a naked board, and you find a CPU somewhere, then a cheap-cheap IDE drive from your favorite asian importer, and some Kingston Value Crap Ram, well you have yourself a 1500$ iBox with an identity crisis. And it is really much cheaper than a 'true' Mac ? Not that much.
If you want a cheap Mac, buy it used or get a lower-end model. If you just want the cheapest computer, then go grab a 500$ PC from Walmart. The bottom line is that a fully-equipped PC that works as well as a Mac, costs as much as a Mac.
clones are good (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW Microsoft makes more than Apple for each Mac sold. The profit margin on MS Office is larger than the profit margin on the hardware and OSX (or OS9, or OS10.2).
Re:Lost sales and/or lower profits for Apple (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Apple is going to have to abandon PPC anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
The industry fluctuates. Just because one company leads doesn't mean they will forever. Quit being so short sighted.
Re:Spare Parts (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's deal with a repair shop, can quite easily and plausibly, require agreement to a contract before Apple supplies them with any parts.
Re:brand confusion (Score:2, Insightful)
[Sigh.]
Apple revitalized its line several years back with a model they called the "iMac." They've since maintained and improved that line, and added a comparable tier to their laptop line -- which they call the "iBook."
So you're telling us that it's just one big, innocent coincidence that Fraser has decided to start manufacturing a computer which is, by his own words, aimed specifically at customers looking to buy a low-end, easily-customizable Mac computer...and called an "iBox"?
Yes, law is about technicalities. But it's not a mathematical system. It involves human beings, making sometimes-complicated arguments in front of human judges and/or juries. And although law offers few guarantees, there is one I can give you: If this kid gets dragged into court by Apple, and he stands up to say (as you suggest), "I can use a word beginning with 'i' without harming Apple!!"...then the judge, when he manages to compose himself after fits of roaring laughter, is going to slam down his gavel and find for the plaintiff. 20 minutes later, Fraser and his family will be living in a van, down by the river.
Pardon my blunt tone, sir, but your argument is fucking stupid.
crib
Re:Assuming I have to pay $770 for this... (Score:2, Insightful)
Contracts 101 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Be an Apple clone.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Actualy I think that Gateway is trying to target the market that wants a "trendy" looking computer but all the benefits of a PC. In other words, anybody who looks at a Mac and goes "cool" but then goes "err, does it run Windows?"
Re:clones are bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Granny Smith (Score:2, Insightful)
For what it's worth, when will Apple realize that
a) now that they have an awesome OS, they have a huge untapped market of new customers who aren't used to paying $1200 for a low-end computer,
b) there is money to be made on the low end,
c) There are people who want a mac but can't/won't pay those prices.
d) Getting more market share (from low-end customers) will help get more product support for the mac.
It's frustrating to see apple refuse to go after a large segment of the population (like me!), and I really think they could introduce a cheaper mac without poaching their others if they're careful.
aBox (Score:3, Insightful)
There is also a huge crowd of very knowledgable Mac owners who have to satisfy themselves with older systems or iMacs because they can not afford to buy the luscious Apple Pro systems while they would love to tinker as much as their PC buddies can with their systems of 500-600 Euros. Some of those I know switched to PC hardware because they got fed up with Apple's stance of exploiting their customer's loyalty and keeping prices high.
There is a huge demand for low cost Apple-compatible hardware which can be expanded easily.
Apple could play this very smart by providing hardware to him and since it will be Apple hardware MacOS X will not have too many hiccups running on it.
Apple could even explicitly include a paragraph in their OS X EULA in which they state that they do not garantuee, support or claim OS X to be fit for any non-Apple branded hardware.
Their hardware sales would go up, their OS X sales would go up and -most importantly- the Apple Clones would help Apple to conquer market and credibility with MicroStuffed IT Managers.
While Apple makes good hardware in a superior design with unequated software integration, they have to dump their 'People will buy it if they see the intrinsic superiority of our systems'. People will drool, will moan and will google for an MacOS X theme for Windows.
I'd call it aBox though since the concept is lumping hardware PC style in a box. The 'a' could stand for alternative.
Using the 'i'-nomenclature for hardware would be the same as wearing a 'iGotSuedbyApple' tag
Why bother? (Score:2, Insightful)
OS X on Mac boxes offers me a beautiful case and Apple support.
What does a beige Mac offer me? None of the above? I must rush out and buy one right away.
not a big news (Score:1, Insightful)
1. Some people are doing similar things already.
Look at it carefully. All he does is repacked some spare parts. It's not a complete system and by the time you make it complete system it will cost about the same as cheapest eMac. But no warranty, no support, no style and only hype.
Marathon was offering rack mount Power Macs way before XServe, but they did not get in trouble.
2. It's not a clone.
The only way it could have real success (and only probable problem for Apple) if a big manufacturer would make it, using their own motherboard and all other parts from the market.
3. I understand why Apple does not want clones. What I do not understand is why Apple does not make a $200-$400 part, sell it to clone maker along with permition/ability to buy and install OSX. So if Apple then can make about $500 per clone, it should not hurt them. Then companies like IBM could make servers, SGI could make hi-end graphics systems and direct their current customers to OSX
4. If all this will work out and price will be low and Apple won't kill him it will be permanent backorder company.
5. if someone so desparete for cheap mac, just buy used, or even non-working one, and fix it. it will be cheaper than iBox
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)