Safari Beta Leaked, With Tabs 275
ollie_ob writes "Seems a bit too good to be true: Apple listening to its community and implementing the features most requested? Apparently a build (v62) of Safari has been leaked into the wild, and has tabs -- though not fully implemented yet -- and primitive support for autocomplete in forms. The Think Secret rumor site has the scoop." It is not merely a rumor, I've confirmed it. It works nicely, too, in a brief test. Then I, uh, deleted the copy I looked at.
Not the first time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Did you use absolute statements? (Bush will definitely go to war vs most likely)
Unless you didn't do those two things, your opinion would be unpopular because you had no authority (proof) or no logical argument. Not that what you said waranted to be modded down, as if mod points were money, but if people don't find reason to agree, they won't agree or just not care
Not to nitpick but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:force Open New Window to Open New Tab (Score:4, Insightful)
You're right. Tabbed browsing should be integrated properly and what you've suggested is not what I would consider "done right"; in fact, it would baffle new users even more.
Re:Not yet, mate... (Score:3, Insightful)
The comment was in case Apple should care that he was using the leaked beta, which they don't. Well, not much anyways. The "uh" was to hint at that he wasn't really telling the truth.
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, because making absolute statements can be very harmful or just wrong. Like saying
Microsoft has done nothing good... or..
Bush will go to war... or..
This company will go bankrupt.
Do you have some fore-knowledge? Also by making absolute statements, you weaken your argument. Or can we now say,
All mp3 users are pirates...
All pregnant teens were irresponsible...
All linux users are zealots...
All geeks are fat and ugly with no social skills
Re:Oh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please don't get me wrong, I love OSX with a passion, but this is just an area where the windows taskbar shines over the dock. It doesn't happen often.
Tabs are essential to the mac browsing experience in my mind.
Couldn't they think of anything better? (Score:3, Insightful)
When you think about tabs, the history list, SnapBack, and bookmarks, you can see they are all a bit similar. They all take you to different pages. Tabs are treated specially. Maybe they shouldn't be?
Different ways to think about tabs:
* Per-window, per-session Bookmarks that retain form entries and other state.
* "SnapForward"
* nonlinear per-window history list
I guess what I'm saying is, I wish Apple or someone would think about the "essence" of tabbed browsing, and come up with something *better*.
And the "tabbed browsing is MDI is evil" folks might even like it. Hint: think about each browser window representing a *browsing session* rather than a *web page*, and it will go down easier. (As if web browsers are poster children for GUI design in the first place).
Maybe Apple thought about it, and decided that tabs were best because they were familiar to people. But that's not Apple's style.
Now I'm not complaining about Safari specifically, in fact when the official Safari with tabs comes out, I will have little reason to use any other web browser, but I can't help thinking the tabbed browsing interface can be made even better.
Re:Windows Ho! (Score:5, Insightful)
Given the overall progress on the iApps, not to mention Safari and OS X in general, I personally think they are managing their development projects pretty well. They are riding out the recession better than most companies, and the more distinct software solutions they develop will make their products look even better when the recession ending combines with Windows DRM backlash. OK, that last was an unprovoked slam, but it is something to be aware of when looking at the big picture. Apple has said and acted in varying degrees that they want to give customers tools, not restrictions, and I think they just keep subtly positioning themselves to jump when the axe falls.
Of course, that's just my hop^H^H^Hopinion. I could be wrong.
Re:Thinksecret down? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have it and its blazen (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:2, Insightful)
How you think this is in any ways like Windows is beyond me. Tabs are not in IE, neither on the Mac nor on windows. Tabs are a Mozilla/Opera invention, much better on Mozilla's side. They were improved in practice in Chimera with quick key shortcuts to navigate from tab to tab and Safar has inherited these. Try Command-Shift-Left, Command-Shift-Right, they will cycle right and left through your open tabs.
However, if you prefer a company that doesn't listen to its customers, and would rather do what they want then waht users obviously want, then I don't see how you could like Apple, the company, not its computers.
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:2, Insightful)
the MacOS was good because it was designed by people who CARED. they cared about efficiency, user feedback and aesthetics. MacOS is such a creaky UI because it's in the business of capturing users from Windows, so it aims to emrace UI conventions that they're familiar with - Apple seems to think that this is the way forward, I think it's a step back.
To paraphrase Akio Morita "why would we ask consumers what to make? They don't know what's possible."
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Efficiency? 10.2 is super optimized, and as to UI efficiency I have seen nothing that would suggest that X is less efficient in this regard. Hell most of the time its faster with things like global window switch keys( Cmd-~ ), and applicatino switching ( Cmd-Tab ), add to that the familiar Mac OS way of doing things.
As to familiarity with windows. Almost all the things you could argue are windowsesque are from NeXT and thier implementation of them predate Window's.
Apple has always thought that the user is more important since they will be using it all the damn time. I don't have a qoute unfortunately.
Re:Not the first time (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:4, Insightful)
QuickDraw meets its older and wiser brethren Quartz and Quartz Extreme.
The organization is the same if not better.
System Folder =
Applications Folder =
Apple Extras in
Users =
Yes the
And Copland could not have possibly been great besides OpenDoc which was a nice idea, there is nothing much that it would have bought us since we would still be basically using 9. And if you think Apple has trouble starting from a base like NeXTStep 4.4 what if they did try fro mscratch I think there would be a lot more bitching all around. I just don't think Apple could afford that misstep.
Apple: THANK YOU for listening, and PLEASE, (Score:3, Insightful)
Tabbed bookmarks are live-and-die for me.
PLEASE remember to allow us to bookmark groups of tabs!
I'm writing on Safari now, but if I wanted to get serious work done I would have to open Chimera (where all my bookmarks are, almost all of them tab-groups).
Thanks a million for listening to us!
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tabs? of course (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:but there _is_ an easy way (Score:3, Insightful)
One of my usability peeves with OS X: Cmd-tab switches between applications, not windows. That's fine. Cmd-backtick switches between windows in the current app. That's fine too, even though I have to say I was more used to alt-tab doing both for me in other OSes.
The problem arises when trying to keyboard-navigate to windows of an app that are minimized to the dock
Unfortunately, cmd-backtick doesn't "switch between all windows of the current application". It only switches between all non-minimized windows of the current application.
Now, given that I don't have multiple or virtual desktops, I'm forced to hide unused apps and minimize windows of apps that I'm using, just to keep my desktop reasonably organized. And it still doesn't work too well. Ah well.
Re:Oh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, Microsoft(R) changed that in Windows(R) XP. So, they already found out that is _not_ an easy way to switch between 3 apps and 13 browser windows.
Re:Argument for tabs (Score:2, Insightful)