Rendezvous, Microsoft And Apple 484
serendigital writes "MacCentral reports that a BusinessWeek article entitled: 'A Rendezvous with Redmond?' has -- with Rendezvous -- created an actual threat to Microsoft. As reported by MacCentral, it's interesting to note that BusinesWeek's 'Byte of the Apple' columnist Charles Haddad is on temporary leave and this article was written by a substitute columnist."
One more reason I am considering getting a Mac (Score:5, Insightful)
On leave? Good (Score:3, Insightful)
WHY is this interesting to note?? Charles Haddad is nothing but an apple apologist, a real zealot. Have you read his previous articles? They are all sugar-coated for Apple. He runs the Apple column at that site, so this is to be expected of course, but I prefer more objectivity.
'Bill's Boxes' and 'Steve's Elegant Machines'. (Score:0, Insightful)
At the risk of sounding like flamebait, I'm writing right now from a Linux box. Is it my imagination, or does Rendevous sound like the most insecure application ever designed?
If it isn't, what ABOUT Linux?
Well, which is it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Security? (Score:3, Insightful)
Rendevous A Redmond Killer Does Not Make (Score:5, Insightful)
why?
because its open source...
Ironicly this is in redmond favor.... since if they ever see it as a threat to themselves due to their lack of such a feature, they'll simply incorporate it... And with that the advantage apple had over MS is gone.
With the major printers on board amongst others begining to support it.... I highly doubt it will take Bill long to make sure MS also supports it AND adds their own special "windows enhanced" features to it.
This whole situation is anologous to when apple made the USB only imac.... in a time when USB was common, but USB products weren't.... Apple suddenly created a greatly under-supported market.... which suddenly rushed to fill the whole with plethras of USB devices.... that didn't even take a year to become predominatly PC.
--Enter The Sig --
Re:'Bill's Boxes' and 'Steve's Elegant Machines'. (Score:5, Insightful)
Networking for dummies...but (Score:4, Insightful)
Security restrictions? Can I restrict the range of IP addresses that access my music folders? Password access? Encryption? I wanna tweak dammit! The problem with that is that as soon as you make the system more powerful and have all these geek-satisfying options, you need to be able to get down to the nuts and bolts of configuring it. Otherwise you end up in the same mess as MS, with users blindly enabling potentially insecure servers.
Re:'Bill's Boxes' and 'Steve's Elegant Machines'. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Security? (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, a more important question than it sounds on first read.
Rendezvous is a nice trick, and should be lots of fun for the Apple cadre. All of the Apple users in their own little world of friendliness and cooperation against the agression of MS. But if it takes off, eventually you get a critical mass of users, and the script kiddies and crackers invade.
This technology sounds like it could become a loophole for lots of security breaks, or at least an easy path to Denial of Service. I hope it isn't quite as easy to get to other peoples computers as this article makes it sound.
Re:On leave? Good (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a big Mac apologist, but may I ask what meaningful things are harder to do on a Mac than on Windows? It can't be using Microsoft Office documents, because there is an official Microsoft Office for MacOS, even OSX. That is the thing most people seem to complain about with other non-Windows OSes. So what are you talking about "anything meaningful" is awfully open ended.
Re:Rendevous A Redmond Killer Does Not Make (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Security? (Score:2, Insightful)
There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to tie in security. It seems to me that Rendezvous is just another layer of abstraction on top of TCP/IP. Instead of configuring a machine with an IP address, or for DHCP, the machine is configured to talk to the network already.
The same thing would occur, for instance, if I brought my laptop in to work, enabled DHCP, and plugged it in to a jack. My laptop would then be able to ping the range of IP address in the network without a problem.
The applications that use Rendezvous can probably be changed to be used with a normal network (iTunes and such). The security model then becomes based on the security of the OS of the machines on the network. I understand that it is still necessary to log in to your machine before using, and Rendezvous probably has some way of incorporating that. If Joe-Schmoe user does not have permissions to my filesystem, then Joe-Schmoe user will not be able to listen to my mp3's. I'm sure the same goes for the printer stuff.
Re:This article is not readable. (Score:3, Insightful)
Question: which is the biggest proprietary software vendor for Apple machines?
Re:Security? (Score:4, Insightful)
Correct me if I am wrong.
It's called LANMAN, and has been here since 80s (Score:0, Insightful)
On Windows, this is accessable via Network Neighborhood.
As far as IP configuration, with DynDNS and DHCP, it's zero-configuration and you get a sensible name.
I really don't see how this "rendezvous" is useful at all considering the prior art.
Interesting because... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the point. It's not written by the guy who is known to be a real zealot.
trade shows (Score:3, Insightful)
The trade show wireless network a small local network, the sort Rendezvous works with. Vendors and consultants will be able to promote themselves by having web sites and servers advertise themselves. You'll be able to find FTP or file servers and grab demo versions of products. You'll be able to chat with representatives. You'll be able to grab contact information into your address book and product release calendars into iCal. Who knows what else?
Apple will not grow market share with a PC version (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple does not make money by packaging software and making it available for everyone to use freely. Sure they get to innovate and make their customers happy, but it does not win them more customers. This article seems to imply that creating cool technology and implementing it on a PC will help Apple. There needs to be some proprietary software in place for this to be true.
Now if they created a Rendezvous implementation for corporate environments and a Software Development Kit to be used by companies like IBM. At work I use Lotus Notes which has a messenger client. I would like to automatically find co-workers without all of the initial setup that I had to do when I started using it. I would also like to be able to monitor the servers on the network and use the printers more easily. If Apple could sell software to do all of that, and perhaps sell XServe systems with it I bet that would benefit Apple.
I really hope Apple does break into the corporate workplace. It would really simplify much of extra work that I do so I can get back to my real work.
Re:Frying Pan; Fire (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's desktops are the sleekest or sexiest, but unless you home build you own whacked case with neon and shit, x86 desktops look like crap too.
So I think his "Bill's boxes to Steve's elegant machines" hits the nail on the head. I still love my Linux boxen, but my Macs, for overall design and availibility of all the software I need, are better.
Re:It's called LANMAN, and has been here since 80s (Score:2, Insightful)
Windows killer, explained (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why MS got all fired up about stomping Netscape into the ground, because the browser is supposed to enable platform-independent computing.
Yeah, it's kind of a stretch to think of Rendezvous as a "Windows killer," but it's just one technology of many to accomplish that task.
Re:Frying Pan; Fire (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, there is nothing stoping you from running Linux on your Tibook, you know.
Re:Because the man is a moron. (Score:3, Insightful)
Case in point. He shouldn't HAVE TO.
Re:'Bill's Boxes' and 'Steve's Elegant Machines'. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it doesn't. Rendezvous is made of two parts: multicast DNS and service announcement. Multicast DNS works without a DNS server at all. My computer sends out a multicast packet that all Rendezvous-enabled machines are listening for. That packet says, "Who's snowball.local?" The machine named snowball responds, "I'm snowball.local, and my IP is x.x.x.x." That way, two hosts on an IP segment can communicate by name without a DNS server.
No dynamic DNS involved.
And because Rendezvous is not, in and of itself, a service, but rather a system for locating running services, security just isn't a concern. The various running services are responsible for implementing whatever security is appropriate, and if you don't want a service advertised, just turn off Rendezvous for that service.
security (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Please Don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple solutions aren't always going to be the best. I'm not claiming that. I'd even go so far as to say that sometimes, using MS stuff is the right thing for a company or project, despite the fact that I detest their business practices (and think they've earned every bit of antipathy they've received). But the bottom line is: there's a world of I/T and software workers out there who'll never even consider (let alone attempt to become proficient with) technologies outside their favorites, and that's simply not professional. No company or platform out there holds a monopoly on good ideas.
Re:Frying Pan; Fire (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, if I could get a Linux laptop that did everything my Tibook does, I would. But there aren't any and most of the x86 laptops out there are trash.
Have you ever seen worked with a Dell Latitude or an IBM Thinkpad? Lovely machines, built tough, great stuff. Some of the mini-laptops built primarily for Japanese consumption are also wonderful. However, you have to admit, Apple's laptops have been class acts pretty much from the word go. There have been some cruddy ones like the PB150 (I've got one), and the 5300, but most have been built for strength, capability and style.
Well, there is nothing stoping [sic] you from running Linux on your Tibook, you know.
Yellow Dog Linux will run on any G3/G4 Powerbook or iBook you please, with few exceptions. The TiBooks with the Radeon 9000 Mobility chipset are not supported yet, but I suspect this is only temporary. The question, in the case of TiBooks, is why anyone would want to run Linux on them. Once you get into G4 range, MacOS X is so compelling and works so well any desire to run Linux raises eyebrows. On the other hand, unless you pack it with as much RAM as you can cram most G3 laptops are incapable of running X well. That's where Yellow Dog shines.
I'm in the process of buying a Wallstreet Powerbook G3 from a friend of mine...that's going to dual-boot MacOS 9.2.2 and Yellow Dog. Moof. See you at Starbucks. I'll be the girl in the black mock turtleneck and black jeans with a black beret, sipping a Frappucino. Oh, and checking my email from my still-stylin' Wallybook.
Re:Security? (Score:4, Insightful)
People didn't have or know too much about Telnet, so default services and configs of servers wern't too "locked down" out of the box.
Fast forward, and distros and OSes are becoming increasingly locked down out of the box. Nobody who will eventually make money as a web host is letting you connect to their servers with anything less than SSH.
What many people fail to realize is that an increase in the ease with which we can 'discover' possible points of entry and visibility of services (affected by both changes in technology and increased unbiquity of access clients) results in a hightened awareness of security and generally more secure out of the box configs.
The funniest part is how many insecure WAP networks are out there
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water here
Re:Frying Pan; Fire (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously.
but from what I know it's all propriety apple stuff
Then you don't know anything. No offense.
DDR RAM, IDE HDD (on a *gasp* ATA bus), AGP Video-cards, PCI expansion slots, USB, IEEE 1493 (Firewire, iLink), ZIF processors.... in every powermac sold today (and has been sold for a while).
In fact, my Powermac has a Seagate HDD, a nVidia videocard and shikatronics RAM.
I thought that this kind ignorance had disappeared, but I guess not.
Re:Security? (Score:4, Insightful)
A protocol like Rendezvous is not passive. It must broadcast queries and respond to broadcast queries for this type of system to work. that goes beyond firewall and obscurity concerns. The responses to those queries must be sufficiently validated so they can't cause problems in the network. Someone could create an intentionally malicious reply that indicates the presents of certain devices that are not really there. Your machine then interfaces with that device with a certain amount of trust. If it is really a trojan on the network, how do you know? A few well times "transmission errors" or inconsistant resource replies can turn into DOS across the board.
Active discovery has to take a lot more risks than simply hunkering down behind a firewall. It must place a certain amount of "Trust but Verify" on its surroundings. You aren't always behind a company firewall. Sometimes you are sitting in the airport waiting for a flight and checking your email through the local wireless hub.
And since this is all supposed to be zero-admin, just how much hands on configuration and oversite do you think the user should be put through?
when will games use this? (Score:2, Insightful)
Security Shmecurity (Score:2, Insightful)
You mean I can write wor...I mean software that will automatically find the most available hosts to infe...I mean utilize? And network resources are instantly available to me with little or no authentication?
Open WAPS just get more and more problematic. Imagine wireless aware worms that spread through the air quickly rendering the airwaves useless.
Imagine your printers printing 1000's of worm initiated pages of X11 camera ads or something...
The authentication mechanisms and potentials for abuse involved in these 'features' are truly scary.
Umm... UPnP anyone... (Score:1, Insightful)
UPnP is an industry standard which does everything Rendevouz does and more, and it's been around for quite a bit longer.
Re:On leave? Good (Score:2, Insightful)
Stuff the Editor left out of my post (Score:2, Insightful)
I said that implying that Rendezvouz is a threat to Microsoft is grossly overstating the facts.
I also said, "expect Microsoft to announce a product called something like "Lliason" any day now, and to tout it as being highly innovative." ahem
Rendezvouz is VERY COOL, and will cause many people to consider a Macintosh, but a threat to Microsoft, I don't think so. That Rendezvouz increases Apple's viability as an alternative to Microsoft would have been MUCH more accurate. I'm sure that Charles Haddad would have written a much more informed article.
Re:VOIP (Score:3, Insightful)
It is possible that this has been in Apple's business plan for a while new. Keep in mind that they do own the domain iPhone.com.
I'm a mac fan but that article was rubbish. (Score:3, Insightful)
So not true. That was a demo - not actual functionality. Rendezvous does not 'just work'; try it sometime. If you have a split network (ie some people on wifi and some on ethernet for example, or as is the case here, my mac is on wifi to the neighbour and shares a network out to the rest of the house via ethernet - naughty but nice!) and even iConquer [mac.com] games can't automagically see each other on my network. I have seen iChats fail to see each other in a similar set up. It's a great idea and i'm sure will get there soon, but it is not really there now.
Want to change your printer configuration wirelessly? Apple's speedy new Safari browser will let you do that if your printer is Rendezvous-compatible -- without your having to hunt down a specific IP (Internet protocol) address.
why is this specific to Safari? I understood once rendesvous has announced my printer to my mac then anything capable of using the print cener would be able to use that printer. what sarafi does do is list web servers that have announced themselves via rendesvous [mac.com] in the bookmarks list.
As promised last summer, most of the major printer makers have upgraded their machines to support Rendezvous.
no they havn't, they have announced that they will be doing so however.
This routine normally involves wading through dozens of folders in search of the proper IP addresses for our office printers, a confusing process that has resulted in more than one call to the help desk.
I'm sorry but this is just FUD. Sure it can be a pain to get a printer hooked up to some windoze machines, just as it can be a pain to get some printers to talk to the mac. some printers are just rubbish. now getting Linux to talk to a printer - that can be hard work.
Add enough of these simplifications together, and it becomes hard to refute that running an office network using Rendezvous-equipped Macs will end up costing less than comparable Windows software -- because there really isn't any.
I'm sorry what was that? in proper english sentences this time? was the author paid for this article? do they have any editors working there?
With Windows, you still need a file server and a print server, with Rendezvous and Apple you don't.
riiiight.... - puts pinkie in corner of mouth.
no for sure no-one ever thought to distribute computing load seamlessly across a network. no-one. ever. not ever, nope. just never occured to anyone before [jini.org]. idiot.
Apple has even obligingly offered the Rendezvous software in Windows code. In fact, Apple has open-sourced Rendezvous and released source code for versions designed to work on Linux machines as well.
It's called 'written in C' I believe.
If more Rendezvous-enabled pieces of Windows software start hitting the shelves, slowly but surely, Apple will start to break down the obstacles to switching platforms from Bill's boxes to Steve's elegant machines.
aside from the obvious frothing at the mouth editorialising here, i think it is in apple's interests to let other people do the work of making windows and linux software. apple sell computers and software, M$ sell software and video games consols. should apple just offer to rewrite MS office et al for bill?
it's hard to decide if this article is sh1t or fuçking shit.
ps: If you want a list of software that is Rendezvous compatable, check version tracker [versiontracker.com].
Re:Spend Valentine's Day downloading Windows drive (Score:3, Insightful)
-OR-
He plugs all the devices into his Mac. iPhoto comes up automatically and he removes grandma's redeye and crops the picture down, then prints it out five minutes later on the new printer.
That's why I want a Mac. I can (and do) deal with Windows dumbness, but I don't want to have to. On my Mac, I can just do more. My friend tried to get his digital camera working for hours before I came over with my PowerBook and plugged it, opened iMovie, and produced results. That's why I have a Mac.