Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Apple Businesses

Apple Accuses Worker of Leaks 374

booboothefoo writes "A former Apple Computer contract worker in Sacramento has been slapped with both civil and criminal charges for allegedly leaking Apple's trade secrets on the Internet." I think the real message here is "don't trust contractors." Or maybe "rumor sites are evil." Or maybe "Setec Astronomy."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple Accuses Worker of Leaks

Comments Filter:
  • Setec Astronomy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DarkRyder ( 103165 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:20PM (#4923240)
    Props on the 'Sneakers' reference. What a great movie. I'm pretty sure I've got it in my DVD library - I'll have to dig it up and watch it tonight.
    • by tmhsiao ( 47750 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:25PM (#4923298) Homepage Journal
      -I'd like Peace on Earth, Good will toward Men
      -We're the United States Government. We don't do that.

    • Re:Setec Astronomy (Score:4, Informative)

      by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:43PM (#4923462)
      What a great movie. It dealt with information security before most people understood what it was... and explained digitial encryption in way most people could understand.

      Whistler: Cryptography systems are based on math problems so complex that they can't be solved without a key.

      They also explained why being able to easily solve just one of those problems would render all encryption based on the same problem (Long factorials, anyone?) moot. We're coming up against this with Quantum technology. While it will provide encryption that can't be broken, all previous encryption will be pretty easily brute-forced with even a relatively weak quantum computer.

    • Nod, also love that movie. =) Glad I'm not alone. Slashdot doesn't allow you to post within X number of seconds of hitting reply, so it erased my original reply, and I'm too lazy to retype the whole god damn mess, so this will have to do for conveying my feelings. BLAH Slashdot!
      • While it may seem frustrating, remember that the 2 minute "time out," like its analogue in kindy-garden, plays an important role in protecting you from all kinds of dastardly things. Thanks to the 2 minute rule, evil trolls are limited to 24 * 60 / 2 = 720 posts a day, an amount easily managed by the fleet of dedicated moderators.
    • Re:Setec Astronomy (Score:4, Informative)

      by mu_wtfo ( 224511 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @02:06PM (#4924130) Homepage
      Setec Astronomy:
      "cooty's rat semen"
      "too many secrets"
  • Darwin at Work (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I mean, the guy posted schematics, for god's sake. Did he honestly think they wouldn't figure out where those came from?
  • by JHromadka ( 88188 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:20PM (#4923244) Homepage
    When the pics were posted, most people said "No way!" and came up with a bunch of reasons for the pics to be fake... then it turned out they were real. I doubt there were any lost sales from the knowledge, as everyone was expecting PowerMac updates of some type anyway.
    • by ipjohnson ( 580042 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:52PM (#4923541)
      He broke an NDA point blank, it doesn't matter if it hurt sales or not.

      I have no simpathy for him he signed it, he knew what he was donig when he broke it. Why do you feel it makes a difference if sales where hurt?
    • Here's how it hurts.

      You're developing a product in a highly competitive market. That means you're paying employees and contractors money for, say, a year without any payback. That research is an investment.

      The first damage comes when your leak gives your innovations away to your competitors. All that work, all that research, and your competitors can figure out your ideas for free, possibly even beat you to the marketplace.

      But then theres more damaage: by leaking proprietary information, he damages the relationships between contractors and employers. Like the post says, "Don't trust contractors."

      • by SethJohnson ( 112166 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @05:31PM (#4925775) Homepage Journal


        The followup damages are this:


        If consumers know that a new computer is about to be released with compelling features, it will be harder for retailers to sell the current inventory at the current retail price. Usually, in advance of a product introduction, Apple will curtail availability of products to retailers if the products are to be replaced. This helps prevent them from getting loaded down with the last model when the new model is released.

        Blowing the secrecy of a new product release corrupts this process because consumers can make a tangible comparison of what waiting X days will get them vs. the mystery of knowing that a potentially-cool new product might be available soon. Retailers are then less-able to move the product that's currently on the shelves and they have to offer discounts on the leftover stock after the new product is out.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:20PM (#4923245)
    why is it up to the employer to not trust it's employees (contractors)?

    why can't employees (especially so-called "professionals") have some ethics and do simple things like NOT STEAL FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS?

    • by Mahrin Skel ( 543633 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @02:13PM (#4924181)
      The message is that if you don't show any loyalty to your employees (if, for example, you employ them "at whim" through a temp agency, without benefits or job security) you shouldn't expect them to show any loyalty in return.

      Way back once upon a time, I worked a fab line as a "contractor", it royally sucked. "Night and fog" atmosphere, people you work with would just stop showing up, and getting curious about why was a good way to follow them out the door.

      --Dave

  • Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bconway ( 63464 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:21PM (#4923247) Homepage
    I think the real message here is "don't trust contractors." Or maybe "rumor sites are evil." Or maybe "Setec Astronomy."

    That's funny, the message I took away from it was that if you violate a contract, the company has the right to, and often will, sue you.
    • Re:Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GeckoFood ( 585211 ) <geckofood@nosPAM.gmail.com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:33PM (#4923363) Journal

      Exactly! From the article, here is a statement to further your point along:

      Apple says an employment agreement that Lopez signed with Volt's Sacramento office prohibited him from divulging confidential information.

      This is eactly what these agreements are for -- when you have some dumbass who decides to go against a contractual agreement, the nondisclosure is the company's legal route of recourse.

      No tears shed for this guy. I hope they take him to the cleaners.

  • Or the moral is... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tidan ( 541596 )
    don't leak trade secrets. Duh.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:21PM (#4923253)
    "Setec Astronomy" = anagram("Too Many Secrets");
  • So? (Score:5, Informative)

    by 9Numbernine9 ( 633974 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:21PM (#4923260)
    Employee signs NDA. Employee breaks NDA. Employer gets mad. This is news?
    • Re:So? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Apathy costs bills ( 629778 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:40PM (#4923427) Homepage Journal
      Employee signs NDA. Employee breaks NDA. Employer gets mad. This is news?

      In the case of Apple Computer, yes, it is news. Remember that Wozniak was one of the founders, and he is a famous phone phreak, a blue box-er like Captain Crunch. He was hacking Ma Bell and hiding from the Feds back in the day.

      Every corporation has a corporate culture. When was the last time you saw Microsoft publicly attacking it's one of its developers for 'leaking secrets'? It happens, but Apple has a disturbing history of jealously pursuing it's employees. The corporate culture of Apple has transitioned from the hackers' culture of Woz to a Culture of Fear. If you are a developer at Apple, high profile anti-employee actions like this send a message: secrecy first, collaboration second.

      It's a very interesting transition. I'm not making a value judgement about, other than to say yes, it is News for Nerds.
      • Re:So? (Score:2, Funny)

        by mbbac ( 568880 )
        Microsoft doesn't sue people, they whack them.
      • Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by sweetooth ( 21075 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @01:02PM (#4923649) Homepage
        This has nothing to do with collaboration or corporate culture, nor should it scare any of Apples employees. If you go to work for any company and you then turn around and violate your contract you shouldn't be surprised in the least when they come after you with thier lawyers. If this was a developer talking about the latest technologies on a public mailing list there is a decent chance Apple wouldn't need to puruse it as such. In this case you have someone providing information that should not have been discussed outside of Apples doors before Apple gave the go ahead.

        IMO, if this was Apple going after an employee going after some developer for discussing information in a forum publicly without attempting to hide his identity, and not giving away "trade secrets", then it would be news. This is a corporation following up on the terms of a contract, nothing more.
      • Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by margaret ( 79092 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @01:28PM (#4923851)
        If you are a developer at Apple, high profile anti-employee actions like this send a message: secrecy first, collaboration second.

        This has nothing to do with collaboration. The guy was leaking info to a rumors site about an upcoming product. He wasn't seeking input from the community about how to make it better. It probably just made him feel cool.
  • Iron Fist (Score:3, Interesting)

    by insensitive_clod ( 613304 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:22PM (#4923266)
    Apple really tries to control any media exposure to its products with an iron fist.. I'm still kinda wondering if Time Canada (I think that's who leaked the new iMac) every felt Steve's wrath.
    • Apple really tries to control any media exposure to its products with an iron fist.. I'm still kinda wondering if Time Canada (I think that's who leaked the new iMac) every felt Steve's wrath.

      I very much doubt it. Publishing is one of Apple's core markets, maybe their most valuable, and the only one in which they hold a real lead. The last thing Apple would want to do is piss off one of the largest content producers and distributors on Earth.
  • by Exmet Paff Daxx ( 535601 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:23PM (#4923275) Homepage Journal
    It's best that I disclose these trade secrets here on Slashdot, where they won't be deleted. Information longs to be free.

    • 'Think Different' means 'sue your employees'
    • 'Switch' is actually a metaphor for the one button mouse
    • Make sure everything is aerodynamic
    • Make sure everything is shiny
    • Industry standards are for idiots
    • People like paying twice as much
    • One button mouse masterstroke to be followed by one button keyboard
    • Quicktime will save us
    • If it's not from Berkley, it's CRAP


  • Think of HOW MANY people see Apple's products before they hit the stores/web

    What kind of evidence do they have?

    • It's pretty open-and-shut.

      He took digital photographs of the new motherboard and case (and his workshop surrounding it) and sent them to a rumors site. He also posted a PDF with specs [macrumors.com].

      A little work with the background of the photos, the IP address of the forum poster, and the list of people with access to the models probably led Apple straight to him.
  • by TellarHK ( 159748 ) <tellarhk@NOSPam.hotmail.com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:25PM (#4923295) Homepage Journal
    It's pretty simple. He screwed up. (And he got caught)

    He shouldn't have done it. There's no defense for it. Apple might be going at it heavy-handed, but only a fool would have tried this knowing that Apple (Jobs) will hurt -vendors- over leaks. He bitch-slapped ATI over leaking, so he's going to -hurt- some guy that leaks a photo or sketch of a new machine design.

    Yes, it's heavy-handed. Yes, it made me wince. But all in all, the guy did fuck up.
  • Marketing? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wotan2525 ( 570711 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:26PM (#4923302)
    I always speculated that Apple intentionally created and fueled all these rumor sites..... it does make sense. It's all sorts of free marketing and when a product does finnally see the streets there is enough buzz to attract major-media attention and get them some serious publicity.

    Why would they want to jeopardize that?

    My guess is that this guy seriously pissed some people off by doing other things.... like..... mocking the interface at the company xmas party.
    • Re:Marketing? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by tbien ( 28401 )
      It's pretty simple. Those rumor sites are hurting Apples sales. Who wants to by a new Powermac/iBook/iMac/Powerbook etc. if he knows that only 3 weeks later he can have more for the money.

      That way Apple can't get enough old machines out of the channel and they're losing money with it.

  • what!? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Cheapoboy ( 634792 )
    Contract workers being treated like shit?! when did this happen? good lord. breaking news to be sure.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:28PM (#4923329)
    I have been asked to sign a few NDAs, I just said "I'm taking them home to review them." I then never spoke of them again, and was never asked for them back.
    • Same experience here... I've seen some pretty frightening NDAs and NCAs (non-compete), but just about every time I've asked for some time review them (read:didn't sign them right there) the entire issue has been forgotten.
      • I've successfully gotten NCAs changed couple of times. The standard ones seem to require you to leave the industry for six months if you ever leave the company. I'd never sign one of those.

        Imagine the problems you would have with a non-compete from, for example, IBM. They compete in virtually every segment of the computer industry, so there's no way you could find work without competing with them in some way.

        Whenever I've raised the issue I've always managed to get some wording inserted that limits the scope. I did pull the "I'll just ignore this thing" act once too - worked ok.

    • at my firm they woldn't let you back in the door without that signature...
    • Ever better. take it home to review it, scan it, modify any language you dont like, and print it off and sign it, return it. They'll never check it over.

      • And it's not legally binding if you do that -- if you don't point out the changes then there's no contract whatsoever.

        And don't think this gets you off the hook... because you've now attempted to enter into a contract under bad faith, and/or attempted to defraud, and their lawyer is going to eat you for breakfast.

        IANAL, and so some of the above may be offbase, but I doubt it's far offbase.
    • I have been asked to sign a few NDAs, I just said "I'm taking them home to review them." I then never spoke of them again, and was never asked for them back.

      This is what I did, and I was never asked again. BTW, I work for Apple and I can, quite safely, reveal that their new G5 will be out in Q2 2003 - it will have an AMD processor and the whole case is now shiny chrome.
  • by Alexander ( 8916 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:30PM (#4923337) Homepage
    Or maybe the real message is, on a slow news day we have nothing better to post.

    Really, in Lorne Greene/Marc Anderssen Internet years/time, how old is this news?

    How controversial is it? If it weren't Apple but somebody as supremely unsexy like say, Unisys, would it even be news?

    This is neither news - it's past it's prime, nor is it something "that matters".

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:33PM (#4923361)
    Apple has a history of protecting its goods and creativity and for that reason, I somehow doubt if it mattered whether or not the person leaking the trade secret in this case was a contractor.

    My understanding is that if Apple does not actively protect and police its trade secrets, then its innovative goods and ideas no longer receive protection as trade secrets. No evidence is required to show that Apple is an innovative company --- if it did not receive protection for its innovation, then it may have little reason to create future innovative products.

    Considering the pervasiveness of companies to recruit employees from other companies by using 'moles,' and Microsoft's history of heavy-handed tactics, perhaps Apple has another reason to protection its innovation: Microsoft.

    Do you truly believe Microsoft has never placed a 'mole' or has an Apple employee it relies on for information? For also this reason, Apple has no choice but to pursue trade secrets claims in court against everyone it can, or it will entirely lose protection.

    Pretty much, Apple is all about innovation and cutting-edge products. Take that away, and all I see is a company making an OS, keyboards, and mice.
    • "My understanding is that if Apple does not actively protect and police its trade secrets, then its innovative goods and ideas no longer receive protection as trade secrets"

      Weeeeeeeeeeell, yeah, that's kind of the point. A trade secret is protected because it's, a secret. Once someone tells it then it's, ummmmmmm, not a secret anymore.

      That's the only protection a trade secret has. There's no secret registry of secrets where you can secretly tell someone your secrets to keep them secret. That would kinda go against the "secret" part of trade secret.

      Once a secret isn't secret anymore suing anyone is completely pointless in terms of protection of that secret, in fact, Slashdot story as case in point, suing kinda "spreads the news around."

      You're confusing trade secrets with trade*marks*, which are the only IP a business is required by law to actively protect in order to maintain their IP.

      KFG
      • Once a secret isn't secret anymore suing anyone is completely pointless in terms of protection of that secret

        Suing the guy isn't meant to protect that (former) secret; it's long since become public knowledge. Suing is how they protect the next secret, and the ones after that...

  • Apple also could be girding for future trade secrets disputes by proving it aggressively polices its intellectual property

    they do this because if they do not aggressively pursue enforcement of certain Intellectual Property (IP) laws, a court may find one day that their brand has been allowed to erode. In other words, their TM will become watered down from a legal standpoint, so its stronger for them to sue everyone they can, than to let most of it slide and then lose when it counts.

    this is what happens to a company after they sue m$ and win the battle, while losing the war.

    • There's so much confusion going on that I'm not even going to try to sort it out. A couple of hints -

      Trademark does indeed need to be defended in order to be help as such. That has nothing to do with IP or trade secrets (two different things).

      Trade secrets are only enforced contractually. They have no special protection. A leak is a leak - if you leak a trade secret to me, you can be held in violation of any contract in place, but I can do whatever I want with the information. (If you don't believe me, google on "+RC4 +cypherpunks +RSA +anonymous")

      IP means a large number of different things, with patents being a large centerpiece. This case has nothing to do with IP.

      In short, defending contractual agreements has nothing to do with one's brand from a legal standpoint. Try not to get confused in the future.

      -j, not a lawyer, etc.
  • Is this Negative Apple Press Week on Slashdot? First there was the whole NTT thing where commenters refused to admit that NTT was actually using Apple technology. Then there was the stupid GNU Darwin post, and now this.

    When did the e-mail announcing NAPWeek go out? I missed it.
  • by Aggrazel ( 13616 ) <aggrazel@gmail.com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:38PM (#4923409) Journal
    You may as well say, don't trust ANYONE.

    The only real difference between a contractor and an employee is how you get your paycheck. To say that someone is going to be more honest just because they are an actual employee is assinine.

    I'm a contractor and I take my job very seriously, there is no way in hell I would ever betray the confidence of any of my employers. Not just because it would tarnish my reputation with future employers but also because I am that kind of person.

    The company I am contracted to right now is very contractor friendly, I've seen some that are not. But the whole attitude that contractors are somehow less deserving of trust than regular employees really irritates me.

    Now this guy clearly broke his contract. But it would not have made a difference if he were a regular employee or a contractor, the responsibility for trust is in the individual, not in how his contract of employment is written. I'm sure regular employees at Apple have the same moral obligations to keep a lid on trade secrets. /rant off
    • by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:49PM (#4923526)
      Smart contractors develop relationships with their clients in order to cultivate repeat business. When an employee bails out for another job, they rarely think about returning to the original employer - often they even harbor feelings of great mistrust, feeling that they were treated unfairly which is what motivated them to look for a new job in the first place. Because of these common situations it often makes more sense to trust the contractors than it does to trust the employees.
  • Apple Isn't so Bad (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:39PM (#4923419)
    I am a contractor for Volt, at Apple, in Sacramento, this guy did violate the NDA, and if you have ever worked here, thats a big big no-no, you don't leak confidential information, there are markers everywhere, he didn't do it on accident, and he should get in trouble for it, I can't comment on how big a fight they are putting against him, but he did mess up, and thats the consequences.

    and to the guy talking about 'ripping off BSD code and selling it for Millions' Apple GIVES AWAY DARWIN under open source guidelines, and it works on PC's and on Mac's, they only 'sell' the Quartz interface (the one WE developed), quit bitching, they give it away, they aren't ripping it off, its a superior product, its free, they used it, this is what SHOULD be happening, Microsoft is a different story.
  • Yeah, what kind of trade secrets did he leak? "Apple's going to release a new computer, that's going to be shiny and brightly colored and win lots of design awards." I bet nobody saw that one coming! :)
  • by one9nine ( 526521 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:42PM (#4923449) Journal

    This is why I do my own plumbing. Anyone who puts their toilet main in the hands of other is surley misguided at best.
  • Wow... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Salubri ( 618957 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:45PM (#4923478) Journal

    "Innovation is in Apple's DNA, so the protection of trade secrets is crucial to our success. Our policy is to take legal actions where necessary to preserve the confidentiality of our intellectual property," Apple said in a prepared statement.

    So... the guy broke an NDA concerning the DNA and now faces a DA because he didn't CYA!
  • by greymond ( 539980 ) on Thursday December 19, 2002 @12:52PM (#4923540) Homepage Journal
    out of the guy is what it sounds like according to the article

    "This suit against Lopez helps show the company vigorously tries to protect its secrets, Mireles said. In addition, such suits could serve to deter other potential leakers, he said"

    Apple has taken legal action against coworkers that leaked info in the past (also mentioned in the article) but I think the real reason why they got upset is

    "Steve uses Macworld and other appearances more effectively than any other (technology) leader," Bajarin said. "In that context they want to have that surprise element," because posting those secrets early dilutes the impact, Bajarin said."

    of course the lawyers will argue:

    "Innovation is in Apple's DNA, so the protection of trade secrets is crucial to our success. Our policy is to take legal actions where necessary to preserve the confidentiality of our intellectual property," Apple said in a prepared statement.

    Just because Apple made a great new OS - doesn't mean they're avid sourceforge users :)
  • trade secret? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asv@@@ivoss...com> on Thursday December 19, 2002 @01:18PM (#4923780) Homepage Journal
    The definition of a trade secret

    A secret formula, method, or device that gives one an advantage over competitors.

    So how would releasing specs on a site that is dedicated to "rumors" help the competition? The action is probably a violation of the employee's contract, but a list of specs is certainly not a trade secret.

    Are gateway and dell (I'm guessing they would be considered Apple competitors) going to change their strategic plans because of a list of specs given on an Apple rumor site? Probably not, I doubt that really care about Apple as a competitor, besides using their designs.

    So even if Apple does win this lawsuit, I really doubt this will send a message to other employees contemplating sending specs. This along with Apple's other attempts to vehemently defend their "Trade secrets" and "trademarks" will backfire as usual. Apple should learn to use the role of underdog to boost its "nice guy" image instead of pushing legal actions that even MS wouldn't stoop to. Instead of attempting to rely on the unveiling of secret products at trade shows. Maybe they should try a different strategy?

    • Re:trade secret? (Score:3, Informative)

      by RatBastard ( 949 )
      Are gateway and dell (I'm guessing they would be considered Apple competitors) going to change their strategic plans because of a list of specs given on an Apple rumor site? Probably not, I doubt that really care about Apple as a competitor, besides using their designs.

      Irrelivant. It doesn't matter what your competitors do with the leaked information. That makes as much difference as defending the willful violation of someone's copyright by saying that you didn't make any money doing it.

      What matters is that this information was a secret and he signed an agreement to keep those secrets. The law doesn't care what Dell would or would not do with the leaked information. The law only cares that confidential information was leaked.

      • Re:trade secret? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by asv108 ( 141455 )
        Irrelivant. It doesn't matter what your competitors do with the leaked information. That makes as much difference as defending the willful violation of someone's copyright by saying that you didn't make any money doing it.

        Well so any information that is not publicly known in a corporation is a trade secret? Using that mentality Apple can sue if an employee discloses whether or not Steve Jobs wears boxers or briefs.

      • The point was that there's actually a legal definition for a "trade secret". There is no copyright involved in this.

        First off, if the contractor did leak the information then he was clearly in the wrong.

        Second, Apple's attempts at "copyrighting" industrial design have always been a bit odious. I mean look at all the iMac-alike lawsuits they fired off. Don't you think some of the old terminals had already covered the ground of "screen w/ integrated electronics and keyboard on cord" form factor? Apple made it a little cooler with the translucent plastics, but it wasn't exactly ground breaking. Now, I can see a case for their newer iMac with the lamp arm (I still can't figure out if they're cool-looking or not).

        So, the contractor violated an NDA. That's all well and good. But, did he really leak "trade secrets"?

        BTW - the formula for coke is a trade secret. This means that no one really knows what's in there and Coca-Cola has to work hard to protect that information. This information was merely secret for the time being and was going to be fully revealed to the public just at a time of the company's choosing.
  • For my last co-op position I was asked to sign a NDA as usual. Only in this case they decided to give me the NDA two months into my four-month work term, and it was not retroactive. Oh, and aside from that little blunder, it did not have a date on it!

    As in, nowhere to put a date. Just a sig, no date! I asked if it was written by a lawyer and they said it was, but I am very doubtful. IANAL but I would think that a NDA without a date on it would be worthless in court. I would like to see what they could pull in court if I simply released some info before I had signed the NDA, or after I had signed the non-dated NDA.

    So let this serve as a note to companies out there, having a NDA doesn't mean shit if it's not written correctly by a competent lawyer!

    • I bet it was written by a lawyer.

      Since signing the NDA wasn't a condition of employment at the time that it was signed, the NDA cannot be enforcable against the employee unless it is supported by consideration (ie, they must PAY you something for signing the NDA). Without consideration (a legal term), there is no contract.

      The paranoid lawyer within me says that the they gave you an NDA without a date to muddy the waters and try to cover up the fact that it was signed after you were given employment, and was not in fact a condition of employment. The lawyers knew there was a potential problem and tried to bury it.

      However, keep in mind that the lack of an NDA does not fully excuse an employee for liability for leaking trade secrets.

      IAAL, but IANAELA (I am not an Employment Law Attorney).

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Apple computers largely aren't built by employees, contract or otherwise, of Apple. Apples are assembled by people who work for a large temporary workforce agency (Volt).

    Apple decided years ago to dump the overhead, both both legal and financial, associated with having a manufacturing labor force on their payroll. People who build Apples have a job and get paid only when Apple's inventory is down and they need to build some units.

    How strongly attached would you feel to Apple if you got a call Monday morning at 6AM telling you to report to the factory - with no certainty that you'd have a job for the entire week. Or if that phone call doesn't come at all and you need money for rent.

    Or, when at noon, they blow the whistle and say "that's it, everybody go home, and don't come back tomorrow". Remember, you don't get paid for hours you're not actually on the assembly line.

    The pay for assembling Apples is about the same as for flipping cheeseburgers but without the security of knowing that you'll probably have a job next week.

    This is "A Good Thing" for Apple because they don't have all that foolishness of hiring people for real jobs, paying them benefits, wondering what to do with them when production requirements slow, or taking accounting hits for layoffs.

    The net of it is that Apples are to some large extent built by people who are willing to get along making a few bucks now and again, and who don't feel any loyalty to Apple or their products.

    Is it any suprise that they leak information?


  • I thought this was going to be a story about an employee who took too many lavatory breaks.
  • I kinda take offence to that, as I myself am a contrator. Maybe Apple need to treat their contractors better or hire better contrators.

A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable. -- Thomas Jefferson

Working...