Flirting With Mac OS X 1147
An anonymous reader wrote to us with an article on Byte from Moshe Bar about flirting with using OS X. Taco and I are both strongly considering beginning to use OS X as a primary laptops - anyone else looking at doing this? And anyone from Apple that can get me a good price on super TiBooks? *grin*
i got one (Score:3, Insightful)
And even so I run mandrake 8.2 on it much more than I run OSX because all GNU and OS tools on mandrake are free while the Mac programming community seems to make a sport out of adding an aqua interface to a nice free BSD app and charging $29 for it.
Also I have a nice collection of programminng tools on the mandrake ppc that I am familiar with (apache, postgres, php, mysql, kate, vi, emacs...) I really tried to run stull like that on osx but it takes a long time to figure out just how - much more time than I want to spend on it. Even so you might even need to run Xfree for OSX to really get what you want which is overkill on my 400mhz g4 with 256 MB and a kinda slow harddisk.
So if you are a developer used to linux or bsd OSX really is a tough call. You have to wonder why you need it, snazzy osx & aqua like interfaces are aplenty for kde & gnome so that shouldnt be a reason. And you can also spend the money on a nice 19" flatscreen!
I have to say for apple tho that the hardware is great and OSX is very nice compared to windows - if you need an OS for stability. But windows has MSIE 6.0 (osx has 5.5x) - OSX has MS office but OpenOffice isnt really there yet..
What happend to your revolutionary principles? (Score:1, Insightful)
Sorry, I don't see the appeal (Score:4, Insightful)
Even with the rootless X11 it's not much better and switching to X11 only doesn't make sense. In my view the only advantage over Linux is the DVD player, which is not Linux fault.
As nice as OSX may be for Mac users and newbies as a long time Linux user I have to say it is just to proprietary and constricting for me to use.
Why all this moaning about Linux GUIs? (Score:4, Insightful)
And it's not like that OS X has figured out how to eliminate user confusion, as you will find out when you try to talk computer novices through installations or system configuration over the phone. Yes, even OS X has lots of GUI tarpits: the printer system, AirPort configuration, and network configuration are pretty bad.
But when it comes down to it, I just don't see much difference between Gnome, KDE, OS X, and Windows. All of them let you move files around in roughly the same way, all of them associate files with applications, all of them have lots of dialog boxes with buttons and little rectangles to type into, etc. And all of them run roughly comparable sets of applications. What more do you want?
Re:Princing, pricing, pricing (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, CPU speeds have reached the point where I don't see the value in paying to stay on the bleeding edge of CPU speed.
I've been using a 600MHz laptop with win2K the last couple of years for development, mail, wordprocessing etc, and I don't feel in any need to upgrade. I'd much rather just wait till the machine dies of it's own accord over the next year or two, rather than go out and buy a 2.5Ghz laptop that will be no faster, have no more battery life and be equally obselete in 6 months.
By the time I get to that stage, I'm guessing that the marketeers driving M$ product development these days will have the Windows ship locked up so tightly with Palladium and DCMA compliance that a Mac with OSX will be the only option. (And the 2Ghz Ti powerbook available by then will still be 3 times faster than what I have now!)
Re:Go for it. (Score:5, Insightful)
dual boot -- a pain in the neck and you end up spending almost all your time in either Linux or Windows
Windows + Cygwin -- too weak on the Unix side, things rarely compile correctly
Linux + Wine -- very weak on the windows side too many things don't run correctly
The Unix side of OSX is getting very close to being as good as FreeBSD; and the Business side is very close to being as good as Windows XP (better in terms of interface worse in terms of inexpensive app availablility). Then you toss in Classic and you pick up a few of the Mac 9 apps.
What is so hard to understand why this combo would be appealing to the
Re:Princing, pricing, pricing (Score:5, Insightful)
Macs may not be as fast as PCs (anymore...and for how long?) but they make FAR better hardware. The reason I don't own a 2-button mouse is because Apple has yet to make one. 3rd-party hardware always feels so creaky and crumbly to me... just like the hinges on the Dell. You don't appreciate a Mac till you grab an iBook by the top of the screen and carry it into another room, just swaying, not even considering how stupid it is to do that.
Now for desktops, building your own might be a better idea, but for latops, no one beats Apple. There are no other small-form-factor power laptops around.
(the Dell's fan is whirring today which is why I'm so sour on PCs right now)
Karma to burn... (Score:4, Insightful)
A few of my co-workers are getting these machines, but I would prefer to stick with Linux, partly because I don't want to learn the quirks of yet another operating system.
But another big part is (*gasp*)... freedom. I don't get the source to everything in OS X. I can't easily modify anything, recompile, and reap the benefits of my change. I'm not a free software bigot that feels free software is the best thing in every situation (I do, after all, work on proprietary software every day).
Plus, what do I use each day? fvwm. xterm. Emacs. Mozilla. gcc. Perl. Ruby. That's really it. OS X really doesn't give me anything over what I currently use, the hardware is closed, the OS is closed, and it's expensive.
I also don't care about pretty. Come look at my desktop if you don't believe me. My Emacs doesn't even have scrollbars or the cute little toolbar. I got rid of that stuff ages ago in the name of screen real estate.
OS X doesn't make sense for me, but I can understand why it makes sense for others since it probably runs the apps they want to run.
But for me, I'll stick with Linux. But when they bring that little fishtank screen saver up on their OS X machine, I'll agree that it looks pretty damn sweet!
well, what are you using it for? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want a slightly sexier machine with a nicer screen that can do all of the above plus video editing and a bit more serious Photoshop work, the TiBook is a pretty good choice.
Laptops aren't about horsepower or upgradability. Laptops are about the convenience of not being tied to a desk.
I have a hard time imagining a modern laptop that can't "get the job done." I've used new Dell laptops and new iBooks, and I'm still glad I purchased the iBook at the end of the day. They both got the job done, but the iBook's batteries last longer, and since I do web development and photography for a living, it's awfully nice to have an OS that lets me run Apache, PHP, Perl, Jakarta, and MySQL alongside Photoshop, Office, Internet Explorer, and Mozilla.
Regardless -- you can always take advantage of the return policy if your (t)ibook doesn't do what you want it to do. It's worth a shot.
Re:Why all this moaning about Linux GUIs? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Sooo many... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's difficult to understand the emphasis on packaging systems. It seems, sadly, to be the most important factor differentiating one Linux distribution from another. Aren't they just necessary bandages to patch over the lack of adherence to standard libraries and file systems?
I've used RPM's, apt-get, Slack's tgz's, Gentoo's portage and FreeBSD's ports. They all are great if you work only within the packaging system. Start installing outside the packaging system and, sooner or later, something will break.
Happened to me every time. You can try to prevent this by tracking and recording where all the files go, plus their versioning info. But, if you're going to do that, why bother with a packaging system?
Re:Mac Laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
You may not believe it, but I feel bored in the second I have to wait for that menu to pop up.
And I need the 3rd button to put windows in the background, jump on scrollbars, open links in new tabs and paste selections of course.
Did I mention that I'd like a mouse-wheel, too?
Macs are expensive, but the price is still acceptable compared feature-wise to top PC-brands. But on Macs you are forced to buy a lot of crap which you don't need and/or will have to replace (Firewire, 1GBit LAN, 1-button mouse) which makes them really expensive compared to a PC that contains only what you are going to use.
Re:Mac Laptops (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I switched 6 months ago (Score:2, Insightful)
You mention this several times - if you had RTFM, you had found out you can as well Ctrl-Click. There's no need to hold the mouse button unless you want to drag&drop something.
Re:Mac Laptops (Score:2, Insightful)
-Flight-attendant style suitcase with handle to tote the monster around.
-Mini-air-conditioner (which can fit strapped on top of optional suitcase)
Re:Second impressions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Review of iBook, by a 'Switcher' (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought an iBook about two months ago, and below is a review of the machine. I jusst bashed out the review, so my apologies for the poor structure etc.
I am a PhD student, and I wanted a laptop for the following reasons:
1. To write papers and my thesis on, using LaTeX.
2. To watch movies on if I'm travelling to/from meetings and conferences.
3. To surf the web and send/receive email.
4. To edit code. I didn't want to actually run my code on the laptop, becasuse my experiments often take several days to complete on a high-end PC.
5. To 'log in' to my work machine to check if code is running, channge settings, get a file etc. My work machine runs Windows (sigh), so the laptop has to talk to that remotely.
6. To use on the uni's network, and use my 'home' account (in this case a Windows account).
7. To drive projectors, for presentations at conferences.
I'll focus my review on the above, but first I'll talk about the reasons I picked an Apple.
Laptops are expensive. But in my line of work (OK, I'm a student, stop that sniggering at the back...), I need a computer that I can use when I'm running an experiment on my main machine. It helps to be able to write code/papers on a laptop, so I can sit in front of the TV, or at my girlfriend's place, or in a coffee house.
I originally wanted a Dell, so I could install Linux, but there are problems with this:
1. Linux isn't supported by Dell.
2. Drivers for laptops often come out ages after a new laptop has rolled off production (if at all), and their quality varies. So there's no guarantee that Linux will work and be stable on a laptop. I accept that desktops are another matter -- I have RH7.3 on my home Dell desktop running fine.
3. Dell's aren't cheap.
4. I don't really want to have to pay for a MS OS that comes pre-installed if I'll never use it.
A friend told me about a TiBook that his work colleague has and how wonderful it was. I started checking out the apple.com website, and became quite interested in OS X. Then I saw a colleague's iBook. That convinced me. I could do everything i wanted on the iBook. I bought one.
Firstly, the price of the iBook was cheaper than a similarly-specced machine. It's a 700MHz G3 (which I reckon gives similar performance to a 1GHz Celeron) with 256MB of RAM and a 16MB 3D graphics card. The screen is a 12" 1024x768 TFT LCD. I opted for the CD-ROM version, rather than the DVD-CD/RW combo option because of price (I already have a CD/RW on myn desktop, and I'll discuss the DVD/movie watching later). Apple give an educational discount, which means that the machine cost me just under £1200 (UK Pounds) and that included a 3 year warranty (also discounted). At the time, I could have bought an entry-level Dell laptop, without the 3 year warranty, with a similar spec (but perhaps a DVD drive, and definitely a larger screen (well, in terms of inches, the number of pixels would be the same)).
The first iBook arrived dead. It didn't work. The Apple helpline people were friendly and efficient, and ordered me a replacement, which arrived just over a week later. Although this was a bummer, the Apple helpline people sounded amazed that this happened, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that my experience was unusual.
When the second one arrived, I was amazed. The design is flawless. There isn't a laptop (or desktop) in the PC world that is as well designed as the iBook. The screen, although seemingly small, is wonderful. It allows the laptop to be small, but you still get the full 1024x768 pixels at 24bit colour -- because the pixels are smaller than those on a 14" screen at the same 1024x768, text and graphics look much nicer -- I have to look very closely to see the pixels. The screen has a well-designed hinge that has the effect of taking the screen away from you when you open the computer -- not like PC laptops that just have a simple hinge. The ports are nicely arranged. The speakers are adequate. The machine has no fan to cool the processor (Apple select chips properly, instead of doing an intel and designing chips that they can write a big number next to and rely on people's stupidity to buy the 1GHz PC because it will be "faster" than the 700MHz Apple [I used to be a chip designer, so I know what the right thing to do is]).
The battery life is amazing (I keep using that word). I can work for 4 hours on a single charge, listening to music (though not spinning the CD). Sometimes for 5 hours.
When you close the lid, the machine sleeps. When you open it it wakes up, often before the lid is fully open. Because of this (and the excellent reliability of the OS), I have shut down/rebooted less than 10 times since getting the machine. uptime tells me that the machine has been up for 6 days (I have never had the whole OS crash on me). Show me a PC laptop that has been up for 6 days! When the iBook sleeps, a white light snoozes from inside the machine, gently pulsating -- this shows evidence of good design: PC laptops use horrid LEDs chopped into their sides without any thought. This excellent level of design is carried throughout the iBook.
But the real test is whether I can do all those things I wanted to.
1. To write papers and my thesis on, using LaTeX.
Yes. There is a free LaTeX distribution called TeXShop which is excellent.
2. To watch movies on if I'm travelling to/from meetings and conferences.
Obviously the DVD-equipped models allow movie-watching, but what about my CD only iBook? Well, there is a free movie player called VLC that will play MPEG files, DVDs and VCDs. I can easily rip a DVD to VCD, and then play that.
[Note: I am only ripping DVDs that I own a copy of -- I do not advocate breaking copyright laws. Those in the US may be limited by the DMCA (write to your representatives, people!).]
3. To surf the web and send/receive email.
Yep. The bundled IE5 is a bit crap, but Opera just released their beta of Opera6 for Mac OSX. I am currently using Mozilla for both web (with their mouse gestures plugin!) and mail. It's fine.
4. To edit code. I didn't want to actually run my code on the laptop, becasuse my experiments often take several days to complete on a high-end PC.
A little trickier. I have yet to find a really good text editor under OS X that I like. I use jEdit on the PC (an excellent Java-based text editor), but even though this is available for OS X (and even gets the OS X widgets), it is a little slow. I guess this is a JVM efficiency thing.
I have used Fink to download XEmacs and NEdit for X windows (OS X ships with an X server, and OroborosX is a Window manager that gives your X windows the look and feel of OS X), but I don't really like these. NEdit isn't as powerful as jEdit, and XEmacs is just weird, as a former PC user, but maybe I'll keep trying.
On the code front, OS X ships with Project Builder, an excellent IDE for application development on the Mac, which IMHO is better than MS Visual Studio. Since moving onto the Mac I've gotten back into C/C++ development. It should be easy to write UNIX apps that can then be compiled on Linux and other Unices.
Because OS X is UNIX, there are loads of apps and libraries out there just waiting to go.
5. To 'log in' to my work machine to check if code is running, channge settings, get a file etc. My work machine runs Windows (sigh), so the laptop has to talk to that remotely.
I used to use the Remote Desktop feature of MS's Netmeeting. Now I use VNC and the OS X VNCThing client to access my Windows desktop.
6. To use on the uni's network, and use my 'home' account (in this case a Windows account).
Yep. Easy. I can't print over the uni's network yet, but then I haven't really tried very hard. I understand printing in OS X 10.2 Jaguar is better. I could probably easily print from the command line, but this is a bit 1970's for me.
7. To drive projectors, for presentations at conferences.
Yep. Easy. Plug and go.
There's only the text editor that's the sticking point, but maybe someone will reply to this post with a suggestion.
Other nice things about OS X:
* Aqua. Lovely. It looks wonderful -- the anti-aliasing is much better than in WinXP. Although KDE and GNOME are fine projects, Aqua is much better IMHO.
* Being able to use one spell-checker in every OS X app.
* Built-in speech synthesis -- I can get the iBook to read me stuff on the web as I work on something else.
* Speech recognition -- I can tell the Chess game where I want to move my pieces!
* More than the one button mouse. I sometimes use an optical MS Wheelmouse, and it works fine without needing to install drivers. Left-mouse, right-mouse, and the wheel all work fine (even in many X-windows apps).
* "It just works". It's one of apple's mottos, and they're right. It does just work.
In conclusion, the iBook is the best computer I ever used (and I've used most major computers from the days of 8-bit processors and most major OSs). If Apple keep up their good work, I will never go back to a PC again.
Re:Laptop is apple's strength (Score:4, Insightful)
I have X11 from the same code base as linux, check out XonX.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xonx
If you are familur with the debian tools, you should check out fink, I use it everyday. 1400+ packages and growing.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php
The biggest difference between OSX and Linux and the real deal winner for me, No dual booting anymore I have it all in one OS. I can run commercial applications(M$ office, Lotus Notes etc..) and Fonts look really nice (better than Windows and X11R6) inside of aqua as well as having several beutiful fonts provided by Apple, this is something Microsoft has never really cared about.
I think it is the perfect combination and I am becoming on of those Mac freaks i used to not understand.
Did i mention no installation conflicts with hardware!!! I love Debian but this is the hardest part of installing Debian (how do you get that sound blaster working with OSS again......)
Just my $0.02 but I say go for it.
Re:Laptop is apple's strength (Score:2, Insightful)
Totally subjective, dude. I hear this complaint a lot from people I know. But I have been using Apple trackpads since the mid-90s and to this particular carbon-based life form the trackpad feels so natural to use it feels like its part of my hand.
I'll just tell you what I tell all trackpad naysayers. If you hop on a skateboard, and fall off of it and break y'r arse what do you feel is to blame? The poorly designed piece of wood with wheels attached that slides around unpredictably when you try to stand on it? Or the fact that you haven't become familiar with how to stand on one and make it roll around?
Re:Why all this moaning about Linux GUIs? (Score:1, Insightful)
When I loaded OSX on my TiBook all I had to do was click "Airport Active" in the menu bar. Thats it. In 2 seconds I was connected to my SMC Wireless hub and on the net. Could it be any easier?
Best OS I've seen in a decade (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember drooling over the NeXT. Way outside my price range though, but enjoyed working on them with my job at the time at North-Western in IL.
Here at work we grew up on the network originally with DOS, then WFW3.11, 98se, and finally 2K. I skipped 95/98 due to HORRIBLE networking issues. At one point I took a Win98se box home to FORCE myself to completely learn the OS. What a joke! At least my Linux box was moved to the basement and not just re-formatted. The Windows box literally lasted almost 6 months and went flying out the Window one day with too much of the garbage.
I sat there dumb founded. What do I do NOW? I love Linux, but the pissing match between KDE/Gnome, their complex setup/usage and so forth have kept them off my corporate desktops. Did I want to go back to Linux as my main GUI? I did then.
This was six months before OS X beta when I started reading about it. I bought a Cube for myself three months later and used OS 9 for three months. OS 9 was OK, and boy did I have it decked out and functional very quickly.
OS X initially was just OK. Coming from a Unix background it was obviously the right choice. As of 10.2 it's game over (for us
It just works. And works. And works.
I personally now have a PowerMac (gave the Cube to my brother for home use), parents on the iMac, and a Powerbook for roaming (mostly the wife). Corporately I use a Mac daily (bouncing between all the OS' w/ VirtualPC -- 98se, 2K, XP, Linux, etc) as well as many Powerbooks in the field.
Interanally we're switching to Mac 100% as the existing equipment is depreciated (4 years) which is a concept Microsoft just does not "get". I thought it was simple accounting... I wish I had an extra 100K laying around so I could by a Mac for everybody _tdoay_.
I will say that my Mac users _never_ call me for help. I endlessly hear from Windows users though... Applications crashing (reboot needed), BSOD _still_ in 2K (though much more rare), configurations mysteriously getting munched, etc.
I have seen the Mac crash. Wow, the last time it happened (the 2nd time, 1st I saw was on BETA) the wife thought world war three had started by my reaction, "WHAT!? NO WAY! THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING!. I DON'T BELIEVE IT. IS THIS THE END?" -- as she came running upstairs to find out WHAT.
BUY A TWO BUTTON MOUSE (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm using a two button mouse on my Mac right now and it works just fine, out of the box. Hell, it's set up to a KVM switch.
I didn't have to install any software, it just worked.
Instant on (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen too many people wandering around the office with laptops open because they don't want to wait through the wakeup cycle... if it even wakes!! And of course they are trailing cords because they have to have the thing plugged in most of the time to last a day.
Then you have the great network switching ability, moving between various wireless and wired networks can be done without thought.
Oh, and obligatory reference about the hardware being better quality as others have noted.
Re:Mac Laptops (Score:4, Insightful)
only because the author created that need by writing crappy software. in fact all the extra buttons on mice (ie more than one) are there because of crappy software. witness:
in the old (and current) mac os there is only one menu bar visible at a time. whichever app has focus, has its menu across the top of the screen. this is how apple presented the gui to the world back in '84.
later, some guys from harvard decided it would be much better to attach menus to the title bars of windows. due to this "improvement" it was possible to have dozens of menus visible on screen simultaneously. computer using moms around the world were confused - they select the text, go to get "copy" from the menu and... which menu?
the solution was the advent of the "contextual menu" (the right click menu) and the required hardware to support it. lesson from history: poor software design created hardware to compensate.
if you want 3 or 5 buttons (hell, a second keyboard on wheels) that's yr choice... but remember that those are extra buttons for added features. they should not be required for basic operation. any software that demands extra buttons suffers from feature creep.
Freedom (Score:4, Insightful)
What do I use every day? Mostly Emacs and Mozilla and Java tools. OS X does give me something using those, in that I don't spend as much time configuring or fiddling with the system and therefore get to do more things with Mozilla, Emacs, etc.
I am a great believer in the GPL, and frankly I think OS X is the best possible combination of the Open and Closed worlds right now. When you want things to work they do, and if you want to use Open alternatives they are there and you can work on them. You could run only X programs and ignore Quartz if you liked.
I don't care about pretty but I do care about efficiency, and OS X is the most efficient system I've found. That's why I use OS X.
Re:Not now, guys!? Please consider NOT switching. (Score:5, Insightful)
I also don't work for Sun, I don't work for RedHat either, but do work for Debian. My choice of helping out with linux works for everybody though.
bad test methods (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not now, guys!? Please consider NOT switching. (Score:2, Insightful)
OpenOffice Mac [openoffice.org]
Chimera is an open OS X mozilla web browser in development.
Chimera [mozilla.org]
These are just a couple of quick examples, but the ability is there to continue OSS work on a very capable platform - it's already begun. I was amazed I was able to compile and install my favorite tools and utilities, right out of the box.
My switch story ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Keep in mind i wrote all that quite a few months ago. Now with Jaguar, things are even smoother, faster, just works even better.
In more recent developments ...
Where i work, a fairly big corporation, engineers are switching in strides to OS X laptops, usually TiBooks . Even the hard-core "Mac dissers" just can't get over how cool those machines are. I am one of the early adopters here with my ol' 400mhz and only 10GIG hard drive, they're all using later models with faster CPU and brigher screen.
It is simply starting to make less and less sense for professional developers and engineers to be running windows versus OS X, unless you are developing windows software. OS X is just too powerful.
My gf just bought a 700mhz iBook. She loves it. She gets around computers fine but had *never* used a mac before. She adapted just fine: M$ Office for OS X, browsing, emailing. I got her one of those USB microdrives so she brings Office files home from her work desktop PC. She's already playing with iTunes and iPhoto.
As usual, it depends why you want the laptop (Score:2, Insightful)
I almost switched (Score:2, Insightful)
Either the TiBook or the iBook would have been nice. The only thing holding me back was the video specs. 1280x854 on a $3k machine is a joke, one that I didn't quite get. The bigger joke still is the iBook, which won't go above 1024x768 even on the external port, nor will it support dualheading. Yes, that's fine for OS X and watching DVDs, but come on. We're not in y2k anymore. I don't care how many parlor tricks the hardware/software can do, trading functionality for coolness is just dumb. So I decided to wait until Apple upped the specs, at which point I would happily become a switcher.
While waiting (and waiting and waiting), I started looking at PC laptop specs, you know, to psyche myself out about the cool Apple I was eventually going to be using. That's when I discovered that some used Thinkpads were going for under $1k and had more video resolution than the best TiBook (referring to the A20p specifically). So I waited some more, and when Apple didn't bother to upgrade their laptops for the Paris Apple Expo, I hit up ebay and scored an A21p that I totally love. $1k for the laptop, $100 for the firewire card, $50 for the Orinoco Silver card, and I've got a rig with better video (1600x1200 on the LCD, fear) and swappable drive bay. 6 hour battery life? Not an issue, but if it were I could drop $50 on a Thinkpad battery on ebay and be good to go. And now it's being said that maybe in January the laptops will be upgraded? I think I made the right choice.
Sorry Apple, I really wanted to do it. I just couldn't justify paying the extra money and sacrificing the screen resolution for what amounts to coolness points and not having to dual boot. Maybe next time.
Apple Laptops (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Sooo many... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people like the joy of tinkering with recipes and making their own food. Other people just want to eat something delicious and be waited on, and get on with more important things in life.
My name is François J. Perreault ... (Score:2, Insightful)