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Desktops (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

New Power Mac G4s Announced 301

benh57 writes "Apple today announced the new Power Mac G4 towers with new faces, running at dual-867MHz (US$1,699), dual-1GHz ($2,499), and dual-1.25GHz ($3,299). All are running DDR, the two higher end models at 166MHz FSB with Radeon 9000, the low end at 133 w/GF4MX." Check it out at The Apple Store, and keep your eyes peeled for an appearance on the Power Mac G4 site.
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New Power Mac G4s Announced

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  • by blakespot ( 213991 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @09:59AM (#4061099) Homepage
    As an FYI:

    These machines do have DDR memory and a DDR system bus but the G4's themselves are running at 133 or 167MHz (depending upon model). The system controller and memory are running full tilt though (266 or 333 depending).

    blakespot
  • by johnpaul191 ( 240105 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @10:06AM (#4061143) Homepage
    all dual combined with the faster motherboard should make these really fast running 10.2. can't wait to see the benchmark tests. it is also the first Mac since the Beige towers that have two full sized front bays. if you look at the new case modifications, you can see that this is meant to move a TON of air through the case. the whole back panel seems to have speed holes, and there are ports in the front of the case for full air pass through (older G4/G3 case had no venting in the front and most of the back was sealed up except the fan ports). it also has a monster heatsink. apple.com has some VRs posted of the inside [apple.com] and outside [apple.com] of the case. besides the already listed stats, here are some other interesting bits of information. the full breakdown is now up at Apple.com as well.

    from macminute.com- [macminute.com]

    * the ability to have two internal optical drives via a build-to-order option that adds a second DVD/CD-RW Combo Drive ($250)

    * support for four internal hard drives (two ATA/66, two ATA/100)
    * support for up to 2GB of DDR RAM with four slots (266MHz in the dual-867MHz, 333MHz in the dual-1GHz and dual-1.25GHz)
    * dual-867MHz and dual-1GHz feature 1MB of DDR L3 per processor, dual-1.25GHz features 2MB per processor

    * processor heatsink is considerably larger than previous models, but lacks a fan

    * the return of an audio-in port

    * ATI Radeon 9000 Pro replaces NVIDIA's GeForce4 MX in the mid-range and high-end models, but a GeForce4 Ti card is still available for an additional $250 (or $350 on the low-end Power Mac G4)

    * video cards feature ADC/DVI connectors; VGA is supported through an included adapter

    * dual-1.25GHz system delivers 18.3 gigaflops, versus 15 gigaflops for the previous generation dual-1GHz (20% increase)
  • by johnpaul191 ( 240105 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @10:16AM (#4061197) Homepage
    they do sorta show it in the VR of the innards.....

    http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmg4_august2 002_480.html [apple.com]

    yes it is huge, and notice the holes in front of case venting through to the back plate that is all speed holes. i wonder if it is these dual processors that are that hot, or if Apple is just planning for the future speed bumps? also, look in the open case... there is a fan right about in the middle of the case blowing right across (or sucking air over) the heatsinks. they moved the hard drives out of the air path and use an Xserve-like (or the actual Xserve) low profile power supply strapped up to the inside top of the case. interesting layout changes inside.
  • by foobar104 ( 206452 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @11:05AM (#4061545) Journal
    In the meant time, I suppose I can just wait for Jaguar (10.2) to ship. Apparently it is almost as fast as a harware upgrade on a CD.

    That's a really good description of the 10.2 experience. Apple could have marketed it that way. I have 6C106 running on several machines, G3s and G4s, but my personal machine is a 500 MHz iBook. OS X 10.2 6C106 makes my machine (get this) more responsive, more capable, more energy-efficient, and cooler!

    I mean, I could understand faster and more features; that's what OS upgrades are good for. But something in the new power management subsystem has tripled my battery life (no kidding) and seriously reduces the amount of heat that my iBook generates. I used to get uncomfortable after using my laptop for an hour or 90 minutes because the trackpad and palm-rests were hot to the touch. It was okay, though, because the battery would be almost flat by that time. But now I get three plus hours of battery and the machine is always cool to the touch. I don't know if that comes from hard drive spin-down or from processor cycling, but I love it.

    Incidentally, that three-plus hours is doing stuff like surfing and email and MS Word, but it's with the AirPort card on.

    Mac OS X 10.2 really is like a hardware upgrade on a CD, at least for us laptop owners.
  • Re:A Q about DDR (Score:2, Informative)

    by MonaXier ( 563400 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @11:13AM (#4061605)
    I think 4x AGP benefits from DDR (both ATI and nVidia have been using it for ages). According to Apple, the CPU can access the RAM twice per clock cycle, which (they claim) gives you up to 2.7 GB/s throughput - twice as much as PC-133 RAM. Also, the CPU has 2MB (1MB per unit, I think) DDR L3 cache.
    As for why the system bus is still 133 or 167 MHz, I think it may be limitation of G4 processor - all the PDFs on Moto site say 100 or 133 MHz bus, depending on the model. More info at architecture [apple.com] page.
  • by tsmit ( 222375 ) <tsmit50@ya h o o .com> on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @12:32PM (#4062239) Homepage
    We have an Apple store across the street from where i work, and i ran over at lunch to check things out. They are getting the low end 867 and 1 gig machines in tomorrow, but won't be getting the 1.25 machines in for 2-3 months. Apparently, the 1.25 chips aren't even available yet, at least thats what the Mac dweebie said.
  • by ckd ( 72611 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @01:14PM (#4062631) Homepage
    In the end, this means there's little point to buying an Apple machine online anymore. Might as well be pampered at an Apple Retail Store for the same prices to the penny (including sales tax).

    It might be cheaper--no shipping charges. Also, there's an Apple store in tax-free New Hampshire [apple.com], if you can get there.

  • Re:A Q about DDR (Score:2, Informative)

    by qnonsense ( 12235 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @01:24PM (#4062721)
    The memory bus is DDR, the processor bus is SDR.

    There are two processors.

    This means the memory subsystem can keep BOTH processors completely saturated.

    • I don't thik so... This is the case of the Athlon, but that's for a very strange and unusual reason. Ever wonder why dual Athlon mobos cost so much? It's because the processor bus on the Athlon is point-to-point. That means each processor has its own bus, its own set of traces on the mobo. With a dual Athlon, 333MHz memory makes sense because even though each CPU bus is only 266, there are two independent buses. Each processor can use a full 266MHz of bandwidth at the same time.

      The G4 bus (to the best of my knowledge--please provide link proving me wrong) isn't point to poit, just like the P3/P4/Xeon bus isn't point to point. That means all the processors share the SAME 133MHz bus. So, no, two G4 processors can't each use 133MHz of bandwidth to the memory at the same time. G4s, like their shared processor bus cousins the P4 and Xeon, must share their processor bus across the board.

      The DDR memory is a good thing to be sure, and the memory subsystem could keep both CPUs saturated, but it can't. In fact, in standard SMP mobos (i.e. non-Athlon/Alpha dual mobos) there is NO way to ever saturate both CPUs.

      Hope that helped.
  • by Steve Cowan ( 525271 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @01:48PM (#4062912) Journal
    Oh the Zip issue is minor for most people, I'll admit. I have an internal Zip 250 in my existing G4 right now because I use a Roland sampler (the SP-808) which also has a Zip drive, and it makes for a very convenient way to work on samples in the computer and transfer them to the sampler.

    The lack of Zip isn't the end of the world for me by any means, I'll just need to get an external Zip so that my workflow won't change.

    I suppose in the grand scheme, Zip is going the way of the floppy anyway, at least in Apple's view, and if these machines are the speed demons I expect them to be I can certainly forgive Apple for making my Zip external :)

    My favourite thing here is that while they have nudged the top end up about 20% in speed, the bottom and mid-range towers have gotten a massive boost.

  • Moving away from major announcements at shows is their stated intention. They don't like how their sales tank for the month or two before a show, when something major is expected to be announced there.

    I guess they want to space out product announcements all year long, and to make them as much of a surprise as possible so as not to affect their sales volume so dramatically.

    ~Philly
  • by delus10n0 ( 524126 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @03:14PM (#4063675)
    It's a 120mm fan, and looks to be pushing air out of the case, through the heatsink fins.

    Also, with newer revisions of chips (smaller dyes/etc.), the chip should actually give off _less_ heat, not more. This is the case most of the time, but not always.
  • by DavidRavenMoon ( 515513 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @05:54PM (#4064998) Homepage
    /. keeps down-modding my posts about this bit of info which I think is pretty informative... the holes on the front aren't vents, they are little speakers.

    Did you just make this up or something?? Nowhere on Apple's page does it say it has more than one speaker. And it does say it has a "Built-in speaker"

    They are air vents. It has ONE speaker. Same HK speaker as the Quicksilver, but near the top now. Why in hell would it have 5 speakers anyway? Mono at that!

  • by abreauj ( 49848 ) on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @06:43PM (#4065316) Homepage
    Every other version of UNIX out there has a built-in backup solution (except, unaccountably, Linux, which has no dump/restore, last I checked).

    Every instance of Linux I've ever installed came with the traditional dump/restore, which had no troubles reading Solaris ufsdump images, and generated images that Solaris' ufsrestore had no trboule reading. That includes every version of RedHat since 3.1, a preview release of Caldera before that, and Slackware even earlier, going back to March 1994 when I did my first Linux install.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 13, 2002 @07:12PM (#4065479)
    The 800MHz PowerMac was announced in July last year.

    As of July last year, the fastest CPU shipping from Intel was 1.7 GHz, and from AMD 1.4 GHz. (If you want to compare with 'announced' x86 CPUs, you should include the 'announced' models this year - like the 3GHz P4).

    Sorry to ruin the positive picture, but this means Intel has increased the clock by 48% (and the cache is bigger now too), and AMD increased it by 29%.

    The pentium4 got a lot of well-deserved critizism when it first appeared, but apparently the new architecture has paid of in ability to increase the frequency.

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