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Media (Apple) Businesses Media Apple

Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro 142

Posted by pudge from the now-i-can-finish-my-documentary-on-hacker-mating-rituals dept.
batobin writes "Looks like Apple is expanding their grasp on the film editing industry with their new release of Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro. It enables FCP 3 to better manage film and 24 fps high density video. The product is expected to ship in May."
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Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro More

Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro

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  • OK, so why is this in the iPod Category?
    • I think you'll find its in the Media (Apple) category- which is illustrated by an image of an ipod. Quite appropiate I find.

    • Cause this thingie runs on an iPod ! And on an iPod only ! Jaleous as they are about the GameBoyAdv running an http server, the Apple engineers ported FinalCut to iPod.

      You'll have buy 128 poddies though and daisy chain them together... Plus a diesel generator...

  • What's wrong with just using vi to edit. (Score:4, Funny)

    by JPriest ( 547211 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @08:23AM (#3298641) Homepage
    All graphics should be in ASCII, Anything else would be large and use more than .003% of my 386's CPU. :)

  • Buyout (Score:4, Informative)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @08:26AM (#3298650) Journal
    it should be noted that this is one of the products they bought with the acquisition of FilmLogic. So they didn't develop this themselves.

    Impressive product nonetheless !

    What is more fascinating : consider this 24P stuff from a bandwidth point of view and think about the recent firewire related news. Native HD is going to require quite a bit more firewire bandwidth than 400mbps. Can 1600mbps firwire be that far behind?
    • And since they bought out Nothing Real [nothingreal.com], this doesn't actually come as a surprise.
    • Actually, the newest rev of IEEE1394 can handle up to 3.2Gib/s.

      • How far is that from product implementation, though? I thought the next step was going to be 800Mbps.

        • You're right, the next devices coming out are targetting the 800MiB/s implementation. We should see these Q4 of this year. Many of the vendors are targetting 1.6GiB/s for late 2003/early 2004 with 3.2 a year or so after that.
    • What is more fascinating : consider this 24P stuff from a bandwidth point of view and think about the recent firewire related news. Native HD is going to require quite a bit more firewire bandwidth than 400mbps. Can 1600mbps firwire be that far behind?

      I thnk this [apple.com] is aimed more at FCP users who don't want to export their Edit Descision List to a Avid format before they make the "final cut." This allows editors to import a 720 x 486 version of their footage, edit it in the familliar FCP interface, and export the EDL to be procesed at a post-production faculity. At least where film is concerned.
  • Excellent! Now maybe I can erase that FAGGY FAGGY Premiere from my drive and use some NON-CONSUMER editing software.

    Premiere is okay for those of you who have not had the religious experience that is working with AVID. Compared to AVID, Premiere is a worthless, Pinnacle Video-level sack of bits.

    Now, Premiere's After Effects/Photoshop intergration is incredibly sweet, something that AVIDDV doesn't do exactly right.

    Also, AVIDDV is NT-only for some goddamned reason (unless that's changed since I knuckled under and spent $2k on the NT port). So, once I get this new software, I'll actually be able to USE the G4 machine that, because I've no professional-level editing software for it, has been sitting on my desk, gathering dust.

  • Hacker Mating Rituals (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rezalution ( 571400 ) <reza@@@netstreams...net> on Sunday April 07, 2002 @08:40AM (#3298672) Homepage

    from the now-i-can-finish-my-documentary-on-hacker-mating-r ituals dept.

    Hackers? Mating? Wouldn't this just be a lot of stories about late nights looking at Pr0n?

  • Has any else noticed that the primary buyers of Apple's nowadays are film/photo people? They certianly have a solid market there, but I think it odd that they push themselves so much to compete with PCs when they operate on a seperate level. I know many people who have both, each one for it's own strenghs.

    • Re:apple (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It's the PC/Mac thing. Apple figured out long ago that there was no way it could ever just compete in price with a PC. So now it's going after places where it can be the "PC" (like going after Avid). They're going after a lot of markets like this now. As they corner those markets, those markets are going to start buying/standardizing on Macs. As that happens, schools that teach these subjects standardize on Macs. More Macs, more Mac software. More Mac software, more users. More Mac users, lower computer prices. Lower computer prices, more Mac users. The Second Coming of Apple is beginning to take shape. A lot of complaints are being resolved (which seem to be mainly pricing issues) but will just take time as this whole strategy is assembled.

    • Re:apple (Score:4, Interesting)

      by stripes ( 3681 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @12:13PM (#3299200) Homepage Journal
      Has any else noticed that the primary buyers of Apple's nowadays are film/photo people? They certianly have a solid market there, but I think it odd that they push themselves so much to compete with PCs when they operate on a seperate level

      Well one can be pushed out of a niche. For example it is a big pain to try to use Canon's EOS-D30 or D60 RAW conversion software on a Mac...unless you run OS9. For Windows Canon has decided to support NT2000, WinME and XP, but still no OSX support. That is for a $2000 camera (or if you were lucky $1499 referb for the D30). I doubt that would happen if Canon thought Apple had the same kind of market share (photogs, not "normal people") as Wintel does.

      Or look at desktop publishing, in the mid-80s the Mac was it. PCs were good for accountants, but if you wanted page layouts, it was Mac all the way. Now windows does it well enough that nobody cares.

      Pushing into niche markets is a good idea for Apple, but that alone isn't enough because they are too hard to defend.

      • I wouldn't worry about the D30/60 just yet. Digital SLRs are NOT there yet - that's why the D60 is 4 times the price of a Nikon F60 for LESS capability. I say we're two years away from switchover, and RAW will be replaced by a proper standard. Everyone will support it, Apple's PCs will be more expensive but still more attractive and reliable. Photojournalists will STILL use Powerbooks...
        • I wouldn't worry about the D30/60 just yet. Digital SLRs are NOT there yet - that's why the D60 is 4 times the price of a Nikon F60 for LESS capability.

          Sure, except it has three signifigant advantages over the F60. It comes with effectavly 1000s of rolls of free film and proccessing (not printing though), the proccessing is instant not "one hour" including a histogram, and lastly they mount Canon lenses :-)

          Instant processing and the histogram are really useful tools for learning how to use complex lighting setups.

          RAW will be replaced by a proper standard.

          Could be, but currently Nikon has NEF, Canon has RAW, Sigma and Fuji have their own formats (both new this year). Since the "raw" format is closely tied to the color filter array layout, and the spacing of the sensors on the CCD/CMOS I'm not sure there will be a standard for it, unless those things stabalise (say, a grid pattern for sensors, and X3-like RGB samples at each pixel...or a Fuji like honeycomb layout).

          Apple's PCs will be more expensive but still more attractive and reliable.

          I don't think Apple's hardware is more reliable then Wintel hardware. Their software tends to be though.

          Photojournalists will STILL use Powerbooks...

          Recently Apple has been doing pretty much everything right. If they keep it up PJs will still use PowerBooks. If they have a few major screwups there could easially be no more Apple. I'm hoping they keep doing it all right.

          • "Sure, except it has three signifigant advantages over the F60. It comes with effectavly 1000s of rolls of free film and proccessing (not printing though), the proccessing is instant not "one hour" including a histogram, and lastly they mount Canon lenses :-)"

            Of course, Nikon lenses are far superior to Canon! Shit, they're almost as good as Zeiss! :-] But I still maintain that the D30, D60, EOS 1, D1 and F100 cameras (despite all being really excellent) are definitely transitional products only, as the support lens ranges that simply are not designed to function correctly with them. What's a standard lens on a D60, 28mm? That can't be right. The fact that Canon and Nikon are offering these SLRs at all shows a clear intention to move to larger imaging chips when possible. We have both the Sigma/Foveon product and the Contax N1 imminent, and these two might change the situation substantially by themselves. Anyone buying a digital SLR right now is either doing editorial/PJ photography or has more money than sense. Still, if someone were to GIVE me a D60 or a D1x....
            • Of course, Nikon lenses are far superior to Canon! Shit, they're almost as good as Zeiss! :-]

              Heh, say that after you handle the 70-200L f/2.8 IS :-)

              (yeah, yeah, they both make great lenses...so does Pentax and Minolta for that matter)

              But I still maintain that the D30, D60, EOS 1, D1 and F100 cameras (despite all being really excellent) are definitely transitional products only, as the support lens ranges that simply are not designed to function correctly with them.

              All cameras are transitional, some more then most.

              What's a standard lens on a D60, 28mm? That can't be right.

              If you mean what covers the same field as a 50mm yes a 31.25mm covers it. If you mean what do I carry on it most of the time, well a 50mm. I like long lenses, and using a 50mm f/1.4 is way way less expensive then a 85mm f/1.2, like half the cost of the camera less expensive :-)

              I'm not quite as fond of what it does to my 100mm for people pictures, but it gives a little more range for macro shots.

              The fact that Canon and Nikon are offering these SLRs at all shows a clear intention to move to larger imaging chips when possible.

              It sure looks like Canon is looking to get closer to full frame. They do have the 1.6x of the D30/D60 and the 1.3x of the 1D. Lots of people want full frame. More people just want wide angles. Problem is CCDs (and I guess) CMOS sensors have more light fall off problems then film, so it is possible there is really no way to get full 35mm frame coverage without designing new lenses!

              All of Nikon's digitals have used the exact same multiplier. There is some chance they are going to make a new set of lenses designed to cover just that. They can be lighter and cheaper that way, and if they can make some really really wide angles, they might manage to do it. It could work out really well. It is also in line with things they have done in the past (like G lenses). It is also possible they are reaching for full frame like everyone else.

              We have both the Sigma/Foveon product and the Contax N1 imminent, and these two might change the situation substantially by themselves.

              Sigma's CCD is smaller then Canon's D30/D60 sensor. Contax's N1 is a year late, and they missed two more deadlines in as many months. I think it is a cool product, and would love to see it on the market. The CCD it uses has been out for like 2 or 3 years!

              Anyone buying a digital SLR right now is either doing editorial/PJ photography or has more money than sense.

              (you forgot to list the porn industry, I would imagine the D30/D60/D100 would work great there; it also works well for finding the right levels for studio lights)

              I'm not sure the D30/D60 is up to PJ standards. Not waterproof, not the best AF. I think the Nikon D100 has better AF, but still isn't waterproof. It is also a whole lot easier to learn new technique on.

              I'm a bit under a year from saving enough on film and processing to pay for my D30 based on my old usage rate. I'm probably four months from it if you look at my current shooting rates. Since I don't really think I want a D60, I don't see it as dumb since I'll almost definitely save enough to make the D30 free before I no longer want the D30.

              Besides, I have more fun with the D30, so from that point of view it's been a better purchase then my last VCR, a lot of recent book buys, some movies I have been too, and some of the cable (er, satellite) channels. I still have a blast when I pick it up.

              • "I'm not sure the D30/D60 is up to PJ standards."

                I used to work as a PJ and plenty of people used to use things like EOS5s and Nikon F801s (N8008s), as well tough gear like EOS1s and F3s and F4s. I used to use two Contax 167s and an RTS3 - only got my beautiful RTS now :-] well, along with a little Fuji 2600 digital and a Yashica FX-D, that is...

                Obviously, I want to see the N Digital, but the cost is just stupid when you compare with film - I also feel that the in camera processing and storage situation needs more time, Canon has done well with the EOS 1D in terms of speed, but I played with a D30 and found it's slow responses really hard to come to terms with. Don't forget, RTS stands for Real Time System :-] I just think that we're gonna see massive improvements over the next year or two, I'm sure that within 2 years we'll see a camera like the D30 at $750 or less anyway.
                • Canon has done well with the EOS 1D in terms of speed, but I played with a D30 and found it's slow responses really hard to come to terms with.

                  What part of the D30 seemed slow? I know the focus is slow, but if you prefocus it seems fast to me. They did halve the release response time in the D60, but since I havn't used one I can't say if that is really noticable, so I'm wondering...

                  (actually yesterday I was taking shots of the distorted reflections from an office building, and a bird flew across and I mashed the shutter, the camera seemed slow to react...but I think at least half of that was my thumb not responding...)

                  I just think that we're gonna see massive improvements over the next year or two

                  That's for sure. The AF on low end digital cameras still isn't up to the AF on film cameras (except maybe on the D100). Aside from that we know CPUs tend to get faster, and memory tends to get bigger for the same price, so processing should get better...well as long as we don't keep growing the image size :-)

                  I'm sure that within 2 years we'll see a camera like the D30 at $750 or less anyway.

                  I don't think you will be able to get a camera like the D30 in 2 years (you can't get one from Nikon, Fuji, or Canon now...and I don't think the Sigma is really the same, but I would like to see a real review). It would be nice if the low end DSLRs were under $1k though. Not so nice if they stick to the old lame Canon IX AF system though. That just has to go!

                  • I don't DO autofocus, but I se absolutely no reason why the AF should be slower on a D30 than on any other EOS SLR. There IS, however, a distinct shutter release lag compared to a film camera, and a serious lack of sequence shooting ability. My RTS III can do an autobracketing sequence of three frames in around the same time as the D30 manages one, not to mention that it can happily blaze away for 37 frames without missing a beat. Digital cameras should be able to BEAT that performance by rights, let alone match it.
                    • I don't DO autofocus, but I se absolutely no reason why the AF should be slower on a D30 than on any other EOS SLR.

                      Smaller light path, pretty much the same size as an APS SLR. They used a AF module from their last APS SLR. However their last APS SLR was some time ago, and an intro level AF system, so it is no worse then the AF from an EOS-IX, which was about the same as the EOS Rebel of the same era. However the Rebel has gotten better since then, and $2000 EOS cameras have much better AF then the old IX...except for the $2000 D30/D60...

                      There IS, however, a distinct shutter release lag compared to a film camera,

                      Thanks, I guess I never noticed that compaired to my ELAN. It is definitly much faster then the digital P&S cameras by a half second to a full second, so I guess the ~0.1 second delay seems like nothing to someone use to more, and a whole lot to someone who is use to none.

                      Does your RTS have a pellicle mirror?

                      and a serious lack of sequence shooting ability.

                      About the same as the low end film cameras (twice as fast as the Rebel 2000, slightly slower then the ELAN 7). Slower then $2000 film cameras though.

                      Even the EOS-1D's 8 fps is slower then the EOS RT's 10 fps.

                      Digital cameras should be able to BEAT that performance by rights, let alone match it.

                      RAM prices will have to drop a lot before affordable digitals can do that...or FLASH has to get a whole lot faster. The D30 had some odd buffer behaviour -- if you release the shutter it has to drain the buffer before you can take more shots (even if it is say, half empty). The D60 fixed that.

                      Maybe JPEG2000 will help a bit, smaller images means less I/O...if they can be compressed fast enough.

                  • Interesting to see so many D30 owners. I bought mine in early January and really love it to death. I've taken over 2500 pictures since I bought it, while I took only 1,100 pictures in a year when I had a Coolpix 990, so obviously the design has been a major success for me.

                    I think your delay is because of one of the more aggraviting features of the D30 - if you press the shutter the moment the autofocus is confused by something, it will refuse to take the picture. There should be some kind of override (say pressing the shutter release harder or something). Problem is that you lose pictures which would be useful to have even if the focus wasn't perfect, such as birds outdoors at f/22, which are going to be in decent focus no matter what you do.

                    I solve the problem by using manual focus most of the time, but sometimes you really need the speed of an autofocus system, especially for the aforementioned birds.

                    Other than that and with continuous shooting filling up the buffer, I've never had any trouble with the D30's responsiveness.

                    And it's probably just as well I didn't wait and get the D60, since the pictures would be double the size, and they're already plenty big. Or maybe that's a rationalization. You decide.

                    D
                    • I think your delay is because of one of the more aggraviting features of the D30 - if you press the shutter the moment the autofocus is confused by something, it will refuse to take the picture. There should be some kind of override (say pressing the shutter release harder or something). Problem is that you lose pictures which would be useful to have even if the focus wasn't perfect, such as birds outdoors at f/22, which are going to be in decent focus no matter what you do.

                      There are several overides (and they are available on most EOS cameras, not just the D30). First in AI Focus the inital frame will be taken even if there is no focus lock. Second in MF mode as you say the camera does not wait for focus lock. Third if you use CF4 (I think 4 -- it is 4 on most EOS cameras) to assign AE only to shutter and AF to * then a full press of the shutter takes the picture even without focus lock. That is the mode I use it in because it makes the focus-meter-compose dance much quicker (at least in the M exposure mode). The huge downside is on the EOS-D30 you lose the ability to do flash exposure lock because that is on the * key! You also lose AE lock, but when you shoot in M there isn't an AE lock because it isn't needed.

                      As an aside except for the EOS-D30/D60 all EOS cameras over $1000 have a dedicated FEL button (EOS-3 and EOS-1v, and I thjink the old A3E, and old 1/1n/1RS).

                      Other than that and with continuous shooting filling up the buffer, I've never had any trouble with the D30's responsiveness.

                      I normally don't, but once in a while...

                      And it's probably just as well I didn't wait and get the D60, since the pictures would be double the size, and they're already plenty big. Or maybe that's a rationalization. You decide.

                      Well it isn't a slam dunk that's for sure. I think the pictures look somewhat better (esp at higher ISOs), and there is way more margin for cropping, but I'm glad I had the extra months of joy from the D30 :-) If the D60 had better AF there is a chance I would buy one (and sell the D30, or keep it for backup).

      • Many manufactureres are still developing support for OSX. I work for one of the biggest plugin manufacturers for video and the only partner we have that supports OSX currently is Apple.

  • High Density Video? (Score:4, Informative)

    by huntdwumpus ( 534558 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @08:45AM (#3298678)
    24 fps high density video ...?

    That's a new one on me. I think you meant "high-definition (HD) video."
  • They have also a 23 inch TFT display at 1920x1200. Yummi ;)
  • Same old advertising hype. Is there a tomshardware equivalent for comparing movie-making software like Adobe Premiere, Alias WaveFront Maya, Cinema 4D, Videowave, Worldbuilder, etc. ?
    • Not really, although there are heaps of editing sites (think EditDot) - I am currently editing a 90-minute DV feature film for a festival on my G3-400 with Final Cut Pro 2.0 and I chose that over the other options available to be (being Adobe Premiere on a Mac or PC, Avid Media Composer on a custom-made IBM IntelliStation or Avid DVExpress on a high-end AMD system).

      Final Cut Pro is amazing when you consider it comes from a company who have never really ventured into this sort of product previously.
      • FCP was written by Macromedia, and you can tell just by the registration box and preferences dialog: craptastic Macromedia through and through. The actual rest of FCP is wonderful tho.
        • Macromedia dumped the product when the development team missed too many deadlines, so Apple picked it up, presumably for a song.

          Macromedia seems like a pretty stupid company now, no?

          I hope the development folks are well-compensated; they've earned it.

          D
  • "10MB of available disk space required for installation"
    (from http://www.apple.com/cinematools/specs.html)

    So $1K AMR for a 10Mb piece of software. They could at least put in a few DVD's of Job's famous "never been done before" speaches and
    maybe one of his turtleneck shirts or something. And I thought Adobe was nuts for charging $1+ for photoshop and a per page fee for a usable version of Acrobat.

    Sure the size of the program has nothing to do with it's value though when you spend a bucket of cash you feel ripped off when you are returned with just a sandwich bag of product.
    • One can tell you'd never buy yourself a Rolex.

    • Re:A bit for your buck. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by stripes ( 3681 ) on Sunday April 07, 2002 @11:55AM (#3299130) Homepage Journal
      So $1K AMR for a 10Mb piece of software. They could at least put in a few DVD's of Job's famous "never been done before" speaches and maybe one of his turtleneck shirts or something. And I thought Adobe was nuts for charging $1+ for photoshop and a per page fee for a usable version of Acrobat.

      Well to be honest most people don't need this product, so trying to make a profit (or clear the dev costs) is going to need high prices. Heck, most people don't have DV cams, and most of the ones that do can get by with iMovie. Of the ones that can't get by with iMovie, most don't need more then what Final Cut Pro does. The few that do can afford $1000, right? And since there are only 300 or so people that need it, charging $30 won't make the dev costs back at all...

      Sure the size of the program has nothing to do with it's value though when you spend a bucket of cash you feel ripped off when you are returned with just a sandwich bag of product.

      First we bitch at MS for making a 12G install of MS Office because it's too bloated, and now at Apple for producing a lean mean fighting machine?

      • If you want Final Cut Pro cheap, look to the archaeologists on eBay. There are a lot of people who sell ancient, shrink-wrapped versions of old software like Final Cut Pro 1.0 for about $200. Then upgrade to 3.0 for $299 and you have it for $500.

        I've done this with a couple of programs (Final Cut Pro, After Effects production bundle), and it's always gone splendidly well for me. And yes, they are full, registerable versions. Just watch out for Academic versions; if there's any ambiguity at all in the listing, ask.

        D
        • If you want Final Cut Pro cheap, look to the archaeologists on eBay. [...]. Then upgrade to 3.0 for $299 and you have it for $500.

          Thanks for the tip. I may try it on PhotoShop.

    • 10 mb is probably just the minimum install. I'll bet doing a complete install gives you hundreds of mb of options. I'd also be willing to bet they include some cool extra movies and stuff.
  • Hopefully this will solve some of the issues that have existed with Film Logic negative cut lists. I've been wondering for a long time what was going to come out of that purchase. Now, it will be very interesting to see what happens with Nothing Real. They are working on an OSX port of Shake. Maybe we'll see a $8000 price drop in that program? Look out After Effects. I think Final Cut is a fantastic program. One of the major differences between Avid and Final Cut Pro is scalability. If I buy Final Cut Pro and decide to go from DV to HD, I can add in a hardware card and some fast storage and presto - HD editing with Final Cut Pro. If you look at Avid (remember XPress DV 3 is also for OSX) I cannot upgrade from XPress DV to say, the full version of XPress without considerably more expense in from Avid. Personally, I'm more than happy to see more film oriented products coming out. I'm happy to have the option of FCP for film now rather than looking at and then running away from the price of a Film Composer setup. -K
    • What the heck. Shake and After Effects have nothing to do with Final Cut Pro. Those two programs are for special effects, compositing, rotoscoping, etc, while FCP is all about editing.

  • icon (Score:2)

    by MouseR ( 3264 )
    Just as a quick note: Final Cut Pro doesn't (yet?) run on the iPod. :-)

    • There's a bit in the OfflineRT [apple.com] section of the FCP pages that mentions using the iPod as storage, but no on-Pod editing.

      I think the iPod's wheel/buttons would make editing a breeze... I wonder if we could get apple to use the iPod's controller for editing... Get a mouse/iPod interface and hardly touch the keyboard...

      Then again, maybe not. : )

  • Yes, but will this let me produce a film of a 3-d rubber band wrapped around a 4-d sphere shrinking to a point???

  • For one this allows film users to use Final Cut without jumping through hoops. Go ahead and use 16mm or 35 mm. Cinematools is more of a tracking database that captures the relationship between the original film and the final edited movie. Much like a "codebook" for those familiar with that. This makes the whole telecining nightmare quite manageable.

    Also this allows you to mix 29.97 fps NTSC with 24fps film capture! This is an enabling product for Apple and will open many doors in the movie industry.
  • I am too lazy to spend time searching the net. So does anyone know of any decent open source video editing software. Nothing fancy, just enough to make some videos of my kids for the grandparents.
  • Looks like Apple is expanding their grasp on the film editing industry

    I don't know if the software portion of Apple exactly has a "grasp" on film editing -- the hardware seems to get paired up with custom software from companies like Avid and Media 100.

    Don't get me wrong, Final Cut Pro is a hell of a program, but it seems more of a median between iMovie and a serious editing package.

    (I don't work in the field, but I work at a college with a pretty well-funded video editing program. So I could be mistaken; this is just my impression.)

    --saint

    • Re:Grasp? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by KillerKane ( 260666 )
      Final Cut Pro is eating heavily into Avid's market share (as well as Media100's). I think I saw stats that claimed something like 30% of the market for FCP. That's without the new stuff. I have friends who've worked with both Avid and Media's stuff, and are now actively switching or planning to switch over to FCP. Of course, this is just anecdotal evidence, but it points to something I've been wondering about for awhile. namely, the democratization of film.

      Apple gave us a set of tools in the 80's that democratized publishing. Took it out of the hands of those that could afford hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and consumables, and required people who could learn to code, and made it so anyone with a few grand and no arcane technical skills could do it. Badly, of course, but neverthless....It demolished that industry. Then they democratized prepress, that industry is almost gone. (I know, I worked in both of those industries.) Now it's film. Jobs has said that movies are going to be the DTP of the 21st century (or words to that effect) I think he knows what he's doing. If you think of Hollywood as an association of typesetters in the mid-80's, you can see why they're fighting anything that lets people create/use media on computers. The train is coming. More and more independent films made, more ways of distributing new content than just showing in theatres, etc., etc.

      Sam Goldwyn, we're coming for you...

      • My company sells plugins for all major NLE's, AVID, Media 100, Canopus, Discreet, Apple, ect.

        Shops that used to have 5 AVID systems now have 1 AVID and 4 FCP stations. Not only is FCP demolishing the NLE market, but everything related to it.

        Unfortunately, FCP isn't a true substitution for an AVID or Media 100, but it is close enough that most people don't care and don't really notice the difference.
    • FCP is right up there with the other big applications for professional work..... FCP3 has made a lot of leaps, and FCP will only look nicer with the recent buy ups that Apple is making, plus that new 23" high resolution screen. i have a feeling they might acquire a few more companies before they slow down. i read somewhere last fall when most all computer makers were having bad financial times about Apples free cash. seems theuir pile of cash just sitting in the bank was many times that of IBM or any other computer maker. since everyone was hurting fromt he bad economic times (coupled with 9-11 fallout) it was a perfect time for Apple to pick up some technology. that was when the rumors were flying about Apple buying up SGI too.... I'm sure a lot of people will never ditch Avid, but FCP is making a lot of progress and for *most* users is totally valid for the project they are doing. with the recent push for it i can only see it getting better anyway, and competition just makes better products for the consumer in the end (till MS gets in the game).

      anyway, the choice of editing applications, in many cases, is personal taste.... not unlike the ongoing war over Adobe or Quark for a layout application. though in that case i think Quark is dropping the ball on the Apple front by stalling their OS X ready version. Adobe has theirs, and it seems a lot of Quark Express diehards are taking it for a spin for that reason alone.
    • FCP is very heavily in use already, especially in TV News environments and for the creation of TVCs.

      A friend of mine is a professional online editor, he has been editing television on Avid MediaComposer and Xpress for at least three years now, but has recently picked up a job at a company doing high-end TVC work with FCP. They made the switch big time, retired their old Avid MC to the sidelines as an offline suite and do all their final edits with FCP, After Effects and Combustion.

      It's also making it's way into a number of the local TV production houses as they start to look at doing more editing in-house rather than paying $300/hr for an Avid online suite.

      Personally, I much prefer editing on FCP to Avid now, the interface is a little more natural and it just seems to flow better.
    • Just to point out an example of FC being a serious program, that movie Waking Life did all of the post production on desktop Macs, and all the editing was done on one Mac using FCP2

  • It's worth noting (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    That Avid could enable the "real" 24p editing mode on DV Xpress simply by updating everyone's dongles - it's just disabled through software because it's one of the "high-end" bread and butter type options that Avid reserves for their more expensive systems.

    Final cut doing this will probably force Avid to enable it as well - and I'm all in favour of all editing software becoming more powerful at a better price. Better for everyone!

    DVX "powerpack" already includes software for tracking film key numbers for film matchback editing, so it's easy enough to go that way too, although it's not a "true" 24 frame edit.
  • Maybe, just maybe, Apple should considere going the Avid business and realease a quad G4 board that fits in a Dual Athlon 2GHz/Xeon 2.4GHz?
    • Sorry, are you referring to an ATX case? I'm a little unclear.

      Either way, I think selling a quad-proc G4 (G5? We'll see what happens when they come out) bundled with Final Cut Pro/Cinema Tools and equipped with the latest (3.2Gbps?) Firewire spec, sporting a 23" cinema display would be the way to go. It'd cost a few (ten) grand, but it'd be worth it.

      --Dan
  • On http://www.apple.com/cinematools/ just above the Apple logo on the display, note a teeny tiny little Dock icon for:

    Quake III Arena.

  • Suppose you are a student, or in education; you can get FCP 3 for a mere $300 and the Cinema tools for the same. That's $600 for a LOT of power. It is absolutely marvelous that apple values students enough to offer so much for so little, not even Micro$oft has such discounts as Apple when it comes to giving the ability to learn important software ($1,400 wow!). This is further demonstrated by their student developer plan [apple.com]. I'm glad someone thinks we're important.
    • Before you decide to love Apple too much, realize that at heart, the student discounts really are just a way to get the next generation of professionals to use their software.

      Sure, Apple does discount more than Microsoft. But remember, that just means they have a different business plan, and put their efforts in the future, not the present.

      This is the same as when countries must find a balance between investing in consumer goods and capital goods. Money spent on consumer goods = a nice today. Money spent on capital goods = a nicer tomorrow.
      • What happened to Artificial cheese? Server down?

        • Hey man. You have no idea how cool it is to hear someone asking about the site. It's been a long time since I've talked about it.

          Basically, running the site just got to be a hassle. I had to deal with advertisers to keep my server running, and web advertising isn't doing so hot these days.

          Ever since I stopped posting I've been meaning to re-visit the site and fix it up. I get free hosting these days, mostly because I run my own web hosting company (www.tobinhosting.com). The site might be a nice way for me to voice my opinion whenever the urge overtakes me.

          Anyway, that's what happened. If you liked the site, I'm sorry it's currently dead. If you didn't like the site, well, screw you too. :)

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