Apple Wants Your Input 1002
Johnny Mnemonic writes "Apple is asking for feedback specifically from PC users about why you might be considering a Mac purchase, or if you recently purchased a Mac for the first time, why you made the switch. A good opportunity to sound off about your Apple peeves, but also a chance to let Apple know what you think they're doing right. The Mac OS X feedback page, originally from the Public Beta, is still up and accepting feedback, also."
Why not ask the real question...? (Score:5, Interesting)
If I was in Apple's marketing department I'd be asking "what would it take to get you to switch to Macs?" not "why are you thinking about buying a Mac?" or "Now that we have your money, what do you think?"
There are two main things stopping Apple from gaining greater market share: Price and Applications. They cost too damn much (for what you get) and don't have all the apps that Windows (or even Linux, these days) has.
I'd really like to see Apple get their act together and take about 30% of the desktop market instead of the pathetic share they have now. I'd be happy as a clam if Linux could steal just 20% of the market, give Apple 30% and let Microsoft keep the majority but keep them on their toes.
price (Score:1, Interesting)
Its good stuff its just 1.5 to 3 times as much for computers that are 6 to 12 months back.
I feel these emails will fall on deaf ears... (Score:2, Interesting)
It's my feeling that Apple is doing this survey simply to garner good PR from the PC audience who feel that Apple doesn't care about what it's users want. I suspect those emails that are highly critical of Apple or request changes in areas Apple refuses to consider will go into the trash can on the dock.
Something for everyone (Score:5, Interesting)
Two years ago, I never would have considered a Mac, nor would anyone I know, except for artists. Now, my wife, my mother and about 85% of my technical friends are Mac users.
OS X really has something for everyone. My mother loves iTunes... it's so incredibly easy to use. My wife and I like the support for DVD burning. I've recently tried some PC products to do this, and they just aren't mature enough, whereas the Mac solution is simply brilliant.
Ease of use and a real UNIX architecture really make it worthwhile. The cost of hardware is a minus, but I feel it was worth the extra money.
Left hand (Score:2, Interesting)
I use the mouse in my left hand. The hot keys cannot be comfortably done with the right hand.
PCs are left hand friendly because the functions accessed with hotkeys on an apple are accessed by right clicking a PC. Ever try the on a mac with your right hand?
Crossover Problems:
Command+z
Command+c
Command+v
Command+x
Crossover and Hand position:
Command+w,+a
Command+Shift+3
Command+Option+E
Command+y
Command+Shift+1 (one)
Command+Shift+0 (zero)
Command+e
Command+Option+w
Nothing like alienating 11% of potential customers when you only have 3% of the market.
Re:I used to be a mac user (Score:3, Interesting)
My 2 cents for what it's worth (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I guess you guys are getting lots of e-mails, having this comments page being slashdotted and all. Your plan to get people to buy Apples works great, or at least it did in '92. That's when me and my twin brother bugged the hell out of my parents until they bought me one. They got me a LC II, which has worked flawlessly to this day (with the exception of having to replace the clock battery, but what do you expect from a 10 year old PC). Sure it's slow, it's 8mb of ram is funny, and I can't help but crack up thinking of it's HUGE hard drive, we went for the 80 meg! Lately, I've been taking apart EVERYTHING in my house, and I have to say that the design of the LC IIs case is amazing. I also recently bought a PowerMac 7200 off E-Bay to put Linux on, and it's a great PC too. The case looks like it would be very elegant too, that is if UPS didn't dent the hell out of it in shipping.
Well, on to the topic at hand. I am defiantly a geek. Once I got more experienced in computers, I fell in love with PCs for a few different reasons. For one thing, there were more games, although that is SLOWLY changing. The really big thing that I liked was the fact that I could control the PC completely. Back then, PCs ran DOS and 3.1, so there were config files everywhere, you could change anything. Now, with OS X, things are basically even, but that's one reason I switched over. Also, I just love command line interfaces, but that too has changed.
Well, onto the present. Last summer my brother (who has used PCs for a long time too, but always loved Macs, more openly than me I should say), bought a PBTi. I have to say that I was amazed at the thinness of the thing. I also love that glowing apple logo on the screen, and of course, the screen it's self. It's quite zippy, and it's really nice. I only have three major gripes with it: no 3D support (but with the new ATI Mobility Radeons, I'm sure that will change), only one mouse button (I won't be buying a Mac Laptop without this getting fixed), and they keyboard seems a little bit flimsy.
Apple has done some strange things over the years but I do have a few suggestions for you. First up is OS X. It's a VAST improvement over OS 9, and you guys finally have a modern OS. I love the fact that it's built on Unix, so it has a CLI and everything. It think that you guys finally have a major opportunity. If you were to ship OS X for PCs, then I think not only would you be a formidable foe for MS, but I'm sure there are many out there who would switch (like me). Since the kernel is open source and already compiles in x86, you'd be sitting pretty there. Next up is Aqua and Carbon, which shouldn't be too hard to get running. Also, if you figure that out of the serious users (like me) who are likely to be early adopters of such a product, the vast majority would have either a ATI Radion (or better) or an nVidia GeForce (or better), drivers should be easy, especially since they would be nearly direct ports of those on the Mac. That's another point, I'm glad that you guys have switched over to PCI, AGP, and other standard interfaces from the PDS slots, NuBus, and other oddities of Macs of old. If you switched, you would get more hardware, and you could get ports to the Mac and PC fast.
My seconds suggestion is obvious and I have already stated it, GET MORE MOUSE BUTTONS. Back in the early nineties, one mouse button worked fine, but today, I seriously doubt that anyone who uses a mac for anything more than e-mail is using one of your one button mice. I know that my brother keeps a MS IntelliMouse Explorer USB plugged into his PB all the time.
I know that I had a third suggestion for you, but for the life of me I can't think of what it was. So I guess I will just leave you with this: I've been using computers nearly daily for the last 10 years, more than half my life (I'm 18). I am currently in the process of getting a BSCoE from KU. If there is ANYTHING that I can do for you guys (product testing (new iMac, HINT HINT HINT)) just e-mail me and I'll be glad to give input, answer questions, etc.
PS: I just remember the third thing! Don't you hate it when that happens? I love the hardware you guys have been making lately. I would kill for a Cinema Display. I wonder if contract killing pays enough? Oh well, I also have to say that if you would get your computers (or at least the higher end ones like the G4s) to use ATX cases, you could make a ton of money selling them. I would LOVE to be able to buy a White and Grey G4 fold out case for my PCs. The G4 cube was neat looking (but expansionally flawed), the new iMac looks cool (and will hopefully drive down the price of LCDs), the iMac was quite compact (though I am still annoyed by that "let's produce everything in 12 neon colors" concept that every company latched onto after the iMac went big. Let's face it, no one needs a neon pink surge suppressor and a neon green monitor), and like I said before, I love that Cinema display.
you read my mind (Score:4, Interesting)
* They're sexy. Apple's industrial design team is brilliant. The iBooks are small (very important) and stylish.
* OS X - FreeBSD is my OS of choice for servers so I see it as a major benefit that I can run (some) BSD applications on an iBook with no major problems. For example, XFree86 makes X11 forwarding over ssh very nice and stable.
* iPod - it's a sexy mp3 player and I want one (yes, I know there will probably be a good PC hack soon, but native compatability is comforting)
* Diversity of machines - I already have a desktop running Windows 2000 and another headless server running FreeBSD. I don't really need another Windows box or a FreeBSD box so having a Mac laptop allows me to run Mac software.
However, I'm still hesitent for the following reasons:
* only one mouse button - I know that's a silly reason, but I get confused about how to do things that require a second or a third mouse button on PCs
* learning curve - I spent about 90 minutes yesterday trying to get enlightenment to install on OS X yesterday. it would have been a simple "make && make compile" in FreeBSD.
* price - It seems that I get more bang for the buck with PCs. If nothing else, I can shop around for a PC and I have few choices with Macs.
So, I'm still undecided, but leaning towards buying a PC, mainly because of familiarity. Anyone have any suggestions?
Notes from a PC user (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been a PC user since 1984, when i was six years old. Since 1997, i've been dual-booting between Windows and Linux. However, i recommend Macs to all my friends who are buying their first computer. Why? And why don't i use a Mac myself?
Well, i recommend them to others because they're simply better. Prettier, easier. You can just tell that a lot more care went into designing every facet. And now that just about any major app has a Mac version or a workalike, there's no problem about software availability.
So why don't i use one myself? Legacy stuff.
I've got DOS games from ten years ago. Utilities from five years ago. Games i've already bought (even if a Mac version is available, i already own the Windows version)
If MacOS supported all the software sitting on my shelf and on my hard drive, i'd never use a PC again. (I'd still use Linux for real work like programming, but the Mac would be great for stuff like web browsing, word processing, and photo work)
If you want me as a customer, do whatever you can to promote open standards and Windows emulators.
Re:Why not ask the real question...? (Score:3, Interesting)
But you're not in Apple's marketing dept. and just judging from the point you're making, you're not in any marketing dept. I undestand where you're coming from, but that isn't how this kind of thing works. Love 'em or hate 'em, marketing people are stuck with the onerous task of managing the public relations and public image of a business and its products. The last thing a marketing person would do is throw up a question to the public like "Why aren't you considering Apple?" or "What would it take to get you to switch to Macs?" Not only does that sound slightly like a plea (and pathetic), but it also carries the assumption that there is something inherently wrong or missing in the product in question. May as well just put up a question like "Why do we suck so much that you choose Windows instead?" or "Tell us about your worst Mac using experience?"
No doubt you're right that they want to know why people don't pick Macs; that's what they're getting at, but marketing people (at least the ones I know) are excruciatingly detail-oriented and pick and choose their words, images, and public relation moves with extreme care. It's their job.
--Rick
Re:This arguement needs to be put to rest (Score:2, Interesting)
And what if you couldn't take the BMW on most of the roads in the world?
The engineering that Apple seems to do seems to be in how to make their computers weird shapes, cool cases, quiet, colorful, small, have that nifty power button that the Cube had, or look like a desk lamp. Not in making them be good computers.
Tim
Why we're switching - what I sent Apple (Score:5, Interesting)
I am 23 years old, a Windows NT 4.0 MCSE, run a small startup software and network services shop, and I am looking at the Macs more and more every day. When my fiancee, a senior music major, wanted a computer to be able to email, web browse, compose music on, and make MP3s of her class listening assignments (instead of sitting in the library), we found her the iBook. She decided to get the CD-RW/DVD model because she wanted to be able to make CDs of these songs so she could listen to the music assignments anywhere. She absolutely loves the machine, and the iPod I bought her for Channukah.
My office network consists of Linux servers for our database servers, (PostgreSQL 7.1), OpenBSD for the web servers, NT 4 for the internal network servers, and Windows 2000 for the desktops. After pricing out replacement desktop computers for our Compaq iPaqs, we realized how competitively priced the iMac is (with the configuration we'd get, its cheaper than the Compaq w/ monitor, a little more expensive than we'd pay without replacing our current Compaq monitors). After wrestling with dual monitor issues on Win2K, the plug and go of OS X is appealing.
The reason we will probably switch to OS X (on the desktop) this summer, TCO.
I need a full time sysadmin for our Unix machines, it is outgrowing our ability to have programmers admin the boxes. We are starting to get close to needing a full-time NT guy to administer the network. We are a small company, and both is beyond our means. We want to replace the NT network infrastructure, and switch to Linux network servers. To best make this happen, we want to migrate the desktops from Win2K Pro to Mac OS X, which we believe will reduce our network costs. We have several Windows machines, and they will likely remain for special purpose usage (web developers that need to view sites in Windows + IE, Quickbooks, other specialty applications), but everyone's primary machine will likely move from a Compaq Win2K machine to an Apple machine. Developers will get Powermacs for dual monitor support, everyone else will get iMacs.
The only thing delaying this switch (beyond startup costs of buying all these machines) is coming up with a solution to replace Exchange. We need to determine a centralized accounts repository, email, calendaring, tasks, etc., system before the migration. Afterwards, we look foward to ending this dual environment of many Unix machines and a Windows network.
Thanks for the great work. I've been following Apple with interest since the NeXTSTEP acquisition, and OS X is terrific. I feel better after a good friend that is a major Unix geek (stopped using Linux in 1997 to switch to FreeBSD, administered Solaris machines, Dec Alpha Digital UNIX machines before the Compaq buyout, etc.) recommended it as the best Unix out there.
Alex Hochberger
Feratech, Inc.
As for me.. (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll probably never run a Mac (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll probably never run a Mac. The real question is, why? I guess lots of people like the Aqua interface but not only is the software proprietary but the look and feel is proprietary. Personally, seeing Apple legal department threaten free themes that clone the interface causes my skin to crawl. I don't see how I could support something like that.
Another aspect is that I am really getting to appreciate the freedom I have with my current system. From a recent slashdot article, I compiled and installed TeXmacs. Its definitely a quality GNU app (though I've had a few problems) and produces quality typeset documents. But the interface is a little weird. Specifically, it has a Buffer menu on the far left of the menubar and the File menu is next to it. But the code that defines the menubar is in a scheme script! Indeed, almost everything in the interface is definable via scheme. The power to change your system is pervasive throughout the system. All the software on my system I can have access to the source code to. In stark contrast, Apple sees its source code as trade secret.
I suppose I am hung on the principles involved. Which is okay. Many people don't buy from Microsoft because they really don't like what they do. I feel the same way about Apple. And the right to copy, modify and redistribute software are things I take for granted now. Why would I want to give that up?
The e-mail I sent (Score:1, Interesting)
Per your request for feedback:
I still own various Apple ][+'s,
The TAM is the only Apple product that gets used now more than once a month.
But I won't buy another Apple product.
Why?
Previous unkept 'promises' by Apple.
Apple ][ Forever. (I really didn't believe you, glad I moved to SCO Xenix)
WWDC 1997 "Any product sold by Apple this year will run Rhapsody."
After hearing that, I went out and bought the TAM one week later, 'knowing' it would run Apple's own UNIX. A really great looking machine running UNIX....that's what I expected.
The way Apple treated the Newton developers. I expect to see such abuse of developers from Microsoft. Microsoft can get away with it, the developers have a large userbase to pay them for the abuse they suffer with. (The newton is now replaced with a Handspring W/visorphone. The custom newton app I wrote is now a web-page Months of Newton development VS 45 mins for the web page, including back-end.)
And the relationship between Motorola and Apple, where the present iCEO of Apple told Motorola "It will be great in two years when we arn't using your product!". Motorola took a bath over the clones, and that HAS effected the chip development. Why should I jump on board where there is a troubled relationship between the main part supplier and their customer?
I never did get back the Newton 2000 for repair. And I never got the $50 rebate for buying a modem for the Newton. And the money I spent on the NDK, only to see Apple give the NDK away a month later....well...these things happen.
Oh, and you tried to stick me with the warranty shipping cost on a Quicktake 150. (Apple used to pay shipping both ways on warranty repairs. My camera was in shipping just as the policy changed
So Apple, I don't trust you. Not one nibble. I've seen you burn your customers too many times, and *I've* been burned by you too many times. If the Newton was not such a compelling and perfect solution to my mobile data needs (it was a MP 130), I would have not come back to get burned again. Just like I work to replace Microsoft with Open Source code, I work to replace Mac's the same way. It is a little harder to replace the Macs. Unlike Mr. Jobs assessment in the 1980's when he was a speaker at Seybold and said "Desktop publishing is an interium market for Apple", the reality is that it was the graphic artists AND publishers who kept Apple in business. The Open Source tools for that market are weak, and hardly a suitable substitute.
If I want to run BSD on a PPC, I'll use NetBSD on some 3rd party multi-processor board. (perhaps even Darwin or FreeBSD - If FreeBSD ever makes a PPC port) But I won't do it with hardware I buy from Apple. And, I'll try to keep others from buying your hardware.
Because I can buy AMD chips, where the lead designer is an Ex-Apple staffer. Or, I can use Intel, if I want to line Intel's pockets. My NeXT machine will be a X86-64 4 way box, with 2 21-23 inch LCD pannels (next year).
You almost have it right! (Score:4, Interesting)
Asking people who bought recently why they bought it, what was attractive, and what were the problems *is* behavioral data.
It tells them what qualms and fears, what irritations, what incentives, and what finally made them buy the Mac.
To be clear, Apple is not asking "Which would you rather have, a Lexus LS400 or a Honda Accord?"
They are asking "You just bought a Lexus LS400. Why? When? What did you like? What gave you problems?"
or they're asking "You are currently considering a Lexus LS400. Why? When? What do you like? What's stopping you?"
Read their RFC page, it's really that simple.
Linux apps on OS X (Score:5, Interesting)
For the most part, I have no complaint. Many long time OS 9 users are vocally unhappy about the Aqua GUI. I'm a longtime WindowMaker user, so I'm on conceptually familiar ground. I like being able to SSH into my laptop from work and continue the project I was working on. I like the fact that fetchmail and sendmail come pre-installed on my laptop. I really, really like the OmniWeb browser (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/). I like watching (the Pro only) QuickTime movie trailers from quicktime.apple.com when it's 1:30 AM and I really ought to be in bed. I'm very impressed with iTunes and iPhoto. I assume at this point that if I owned a digital movie camera that I would be impressed with iMovie, as well.
I do, however, have two noticeable complaints:
1) I've spent the weekend trying to compile PHP 4.1.2 on this damned machine, and I'm getting tired of reading potentially helpful posts on various mailing lists which all end in the same error message:
"/usr/bin/libtool: internal link edit command failed"
If anyone has encountered this error message while compiling PHP 4.1.2 and resolved matters to their liking, I would be delighted to hear what you did.
2) I bought Civilization III for Mac OS X. I have a 677mz G4 processor with 512 MB of RAM, and the damned game is so slow its almost unplayable. That's simply unacceptable. I can't remember the last time that I cursed so much at a game. It doesn't matter if companies port their software to Mac OS X, if the port is practically unusable.
One final thought, unrelated to the previous statements:
I don't give a damn about the price. I don't use Linux because it's Beer-Free. I've happily paid for every version of the OS that I've used over the past five years; I understand how a Market Economy works. If you tell me that you didn't buy a Macintosh because it didn't do something that you needed, or because it did something you found unacceptable, I'll gladly accept that. But if you tell me you didn't buy a Mac because you were too cheap, rest assured that you won't get invited to any of my parties. I'd rather have no scotch than cheap scotch
Best regards,
Mike McC
Re:one reason... (Score:3, Interesting)
Kind of like how so many people complained about all the CPU & memory taken up for all the visual effects the original Mac OS had.
People never learn.
My submission (Score:4, Interesting)
I am a "Microsoft dot whore." I don't hate Macs but I have hated the MAC OS
since forever. I hate Linux on the desktop but I am a hardcore fan of Linux
used properly in a server environment. I have a lot of respect for freeBSD
and it is my unix of choice when I need a dirt cheap web server. I am a
Windows developer and I also work on web applications development, but
non-Windows client platforms are never part of the specs.
My house right now has one Dell 600MHZ Celeron (wife), one homebuilt
dual-processor PIII-1GHZ Windows 2000 server (for telecommuting), and two
IBM Thinkpad laptops issued by my employers, one a Celeron 366 running XP
Pro and one PIII-700 running Windows 2000 Professional. My home network
shares a Comcast cable modem with a Linksys broadband router and a Netgear
802.11b wireless access point (using Linksys WPC11 wireless cards for the
laptops).
And I am dying to get my hands on a Titanium Powerbook. Badly.
I go to CompUSA once a week just to look at their floor samples. I go to
Microcenter hoping one is online so I can surf the web with it.
I buy every Mac magazine I can find, usually at a horrible markup. I have
not bought a non-programming Windows magazine in more than 5 years.
I am telling my friends I am turning into a "Mac Hippie." (I spent years
bothering our Mac users, calling them hippies and radicals. Somehow they
liked that)
Why?
1. OS X. I have spent years telling people that the only reason Linux and
BSD have not taken over Windows is the user interface. Using Unix for a Mac
OS is brilliant!
2. Power users be damned, sometimes even us experts need to sit in front of
a PC and have it work for us, not us fight it to get things done. A windows
power user does not notice all the workarounds and hacks he learns over the
year to adapt himself to Windows. This terrifies a newbie. I like how much
simple everything is on the mac.
3. Open Source. I believe in making money from writing software, but there
is just too much good free software out there that cannot be ignored.
Embracing the open source movement was brilliant. Just looking at MAC OS X
and knowing I got a fully functional Unix system underneath motivates me to
drop my ASP.net and C# books and learn C++ and Java so I can write stuff
that runs on Unix instead of Windows.
4. The colors! I embraced digital photography almost 2 years ago, and seeing
my photos displayed on both a Cinema display and the new Mac was like seeing
my work for the very first time. Everything looks much better on a mac.
5. Hardware + software integration. You cannot match any mac to a real world
machine in the Windows world. For example, there is no way you can get a
Windows laptop that can match a 600MHZ iBook, with its polycarbonate and
magnesium 4.9 pound, body, built-in combo drive, pre-wired for WiFi and with
firewire. not at that price. And let's not talk about the Titanium
Powerbooks and the new dual processor Power Macs. I have a dual processor
PIII-1GHZ and it is a pathetic piece of crap, I usually reinstall the OS
every 60 days or so. It bothers me that this monster PC is less stable than
my Celeron 366 IBM Thinkpad (which is rock-solid but slooooow).
6. Simplicity. My wife has been using computers since the day we met 10
years ago, but she has NEVER cared about computers. She sits down, does
whatever she needs to and then walks away not thinking about it until the
next time she needs to use it. In other words, she is not a computer geek. I
took her to the Apple Store in Tyson's Corner, Virginia, to see the new
iMac. 5 minutes after using it she turned around and told me "I want one."
This is the first time in 7 years of marriage that she has ever asked me for
a computer, usually she inherits my old PCs.
7. Available emulation software. I can carry a Titanium laptop on a business
trip knowing I have Unix, Mac OS and Windows 2000 available in the same
compact enclosure, thanks to Virtual PC.
8. Awesome laptop design. The iBook is a beautiful piece of work (the 14"
iBook is ugly, sorry). The Titanium Powerbook is so awesome that one of our
artists bought one and had hers delivered to the office and the whole
production department pretty much froze still while she unpacked it. Even
the Ti Powerbook is at least a pound lighter than my ThinkPad PIII700.
Probably 3 or so pounds lighter than my ThinkPad Celeron 366.
I am counting my days to get my Mac. I managed to steal a G4 450 from IT for
"testing" but after a few weeks they came up with some lame excuse to bring
it back to them. After a few days I was using it more than my own
workstation, a PIII-1GHZ. Eventually I convinced my wife to let me buy a Ti
Powerbook 667, but I have to save my pennies first
If I get my act together I will have my Ti Powerbook 667 no later than the
first of August. That is unless you guys revamp the line and I get stuck in
a shipping wait like it happened with the iMac.
Thanks for this opportunity to sound off! And yes, it is OK to contact me.
Comment removed (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:This arguement needs to be put to rest (Score:2, Interesting)
This has become more and more common with macs and frankly has caused me to turn 99% pc / windows / linux / what have ya. I am not the only one with these problems. When I add into that the fact that there hasn't been a port of HalfLife *ever*, nor the simultaneous release of things like sftp clients, ssh clients (that work, reliably), web browsers that don't take minutes at a time to launch or eat up most of my CPU, etc. why on earth would I ever stick with a mac again? Personally I prefer photoshop on a pc now. It kicks ass! It runs faster as far as I can tell (similar cpu speeds, more ram on the PC side.)
So I say: argue away. I agree that their product designs look great. Their core functionality though - OSX aside - leaves a ton to be desired.
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