Dual G4 Mac Cube 131
ijx writes: "Those of you with a hardware-hacking bent should enjoy this - a Mac Cube modded to accomodate dual processors, courtesy of AccelerateYourMac. It seems that it uses the same dual-proc module as a Sawtooth G4 Tower. My question: will it melt?"
Cool! (Score:4, Funny)
But seriously, a nice hack. Sounds blazingly fast. Maybe it would have sold better in this configuration?
Re:Cool! (Score:1)
Re:Cool! (Score:2, Informative)
I'd like to hear what tech support has to say about it when people call up asking why their cube is on fire.
"Uhhh, yeah! Innit the hottest product we've ever sold? Wanna buy some really cool speakers for it? I can transfer you to sales! -click-"
Re:Cool! (Score:2, Interesting)
Will it melt? (Score:2, Informative)
CISC chip do put off heat, but it's VERY easy to control, and the wattage is lower than CISC. That's why RISC technology is used in many hand helds.
Is this a troll? (Score:4, Informative)
The reason risc is more common nowadays is because it's easier to design and write optimizing compilers for. Software issues, not hardware ones.
Re:Is this a troll? (Score:4, Informative)
You can run a PPC CPU at temperatures unheard of with AMD and Intel CPUs.
Not all RISC-based CPUs run cool, though. Because the PPC was designed for embedded use, it runs a lot cooler than a DEC Alpha. Try touching a fast Alpha CPU. Try touching a slow Alpha!
Re:Is this a troll? (Score:1)
The clock speed throttles down, saving the processor from overheating.
Re:Is this a troll? (Score:2)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:2, Interesting)
I thought about getting a used SPARC Station (or something similar), but I think this Dual Cube thing would be great! Man, I wish Apple would have sold this. I think I might have given up all my other computer equipment (except my near-silent FREESCO box
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1, Insightful)
i also disconnected the PSU fan, but thats a nother story. (tip: run an open case, and remove the lid on your PSU box.)
i also use a voodoo3000. no fans at all then.
and read up on storagereview.com witch harddrives are silent.
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
You did read the page right??? (Score:1)
Re:You did read the page right??? (Score:3, Informative)
That's a stock heatsink modified to make contact with the two G4's instead of the single one that was stock.
So he's not doing anything other than going with Apple's design decision. It could probably run with a cooler heatsink, but since it's not aided by a fan, and you want it to work in rooms that don't have air-conditioning (thinking of consumers who buy computers and then use them in stuffy offices) there's probably some tolerance designed in so that it doesn't overheat.
Re: (Score:2)
MOD UP! He is right! (Score:4, Insightful)
..."The peak power consumption of the UltraSPARC IIe is 13W at 500 MHz, which minimizes cooling requirements for the chip and in turn a potential threat to server stability should the datacenter cooling/environmental equipment malfunction.
In fact, one of the primary barriers to broad acceptance of the Itanium by OEMs is its large 130W power appetite -- literally 10 times that of our own UltraSPARC IIe."
I am aware that cisc vs risc is a flamebait in alot of areas but risc was specifically designed to have less complexity in the chip in exchange for higher clock speeds. In many ( not all ) situations risc is usually %25-%40 faster on equilivant megahertz basis or can run at a slower megahertz and consume less power for a similar speed. X86 has alot of baggage in it and consumes alot more power then powerpc's, sparcs, and even alpha's and offers less performance or the same if its clocked ridiculously high. This would make it less hot then x86 cpu's running. I think the pentium4 and the athlon are almost an embarrassment to the electrical engineering community.
Sparc chips as low-powered? WTF?! (Score:1)
Saying that many CISC chips are lower power than many RISC chips is certainly true. Citing Sun as an example -- bad call.
(Now, the system that my coworker was dealing with was evidently not the same one aceshardware reviewed -- but even 13W for the chip is way, way too much in embedded space. If you're looking for something to hold up as an architecture conducive to low-power chips, consider one of the examples I gave above).
oops (Score:1)
Needless to say, I got that backwards. *sigh*...
Re:oops (Score:1)
Re:oops (Score:2, Interesting)
Compare Intel's "mobile" chips used in laptops with those for the desktop market; the performance difference isn't all that great, while the difference in power consumption is large. These are still quite a bit more power-hungry than most embedded chips, but they illustrate that not all new development is done with performance as the primary goal. There's a lot more than underclocking which can be done to cool down a chip (don't look here for details, though -- I'm software, not EE).
Re:oops (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Anyhow there's not much to say about the powerconsumption, G4 clearly rules (and therefore runs cooler and quieter, no fans...).
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Re:Will it melt? (Score:5, Insightful)
As I recall any of the Alpha line of microprocessors (a pure RISC design) uses significantly more power than any of your desktop x86 processors (I believe in the 100W or more range).
I imagine the reason the conclusion is incorrectly drawn is due to the fact that x86 is one of the only (if not the only) high performance CISC architectures out there. Since he has only one sample point, the poster must have assumed that "all CISC designs consume more power than RISC designs".
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Of course, this doesn't mean you're wrong either. RISC designs can suck up juice too.
Re:Will it melt? (Score:1)
Notably though, the PowerBook G4 didn't have this problem - it's fan didn't even turn on.
Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Interesting (Score:2, Redundant)
Most Apple machines have been so, since the biege G3, in a ZIF socket.
Even Powerbook G3 is in a socket, and can be upgraded. Among the very few laptop that can be upgraded to a better processor, hope Intel do copy that idea
Erm (Score:1)
Re:Erm (Score:1)
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
This is a by-product of the PPC architecture used by Apple. You're thinking in a PC mindframe, where the CPU sockets are built directly onto the motherboard, and to do a dual setup you need a mobo that supports two CPUs. A Macintosh is different. The CPU is on a separate card. The dual CPU card is the same as a single CPU card, but with two CPUs on it. It connects to the motherboard in exactly the same way. Now, I've never taken a mac apart or done a CPU upgrade, so I don't have much authority here, but that is the gist of how it's done. PC architecture vs. Mac architecture.
Byte Mag - S100 (Score:1)
Ok where can I get a quad CPU board... Hell with that! Give me a 2^8 mod - would have to rename thou. Hmm.. Beo,G4,256...BfG2k anyone?
With all that artic silver thou, I would think that it would be difficult to remove.
Oh man it just hit me... (Score:1)
McDonalds would sue thou
Re:Oh man it just hit me... (Score:1)
There's also a better version called the HappyMeal.
Re:Interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
I'm looking for the rest of that machine- corroded or not-
email me!
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
here [xlr8yourmac.com] is an article from the same site that shows photos of what the connector looks like.
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
I have, several times and your post is completely accurate. I don't know much about PC upgrades, and wasn't even aware of the difference with this. Apart from a horrific experience trying to install a CD-R in my nephew's Compaq, I've never had experience with non-Mac PC hardware. No Mac upgrade (CPU, PCI card, video, USB, memory, etc.) has ever taken me more than 5 minutes. I appreciate Apple's attention to detail in this regard.
Re:Interesting (Score:1)
No.
Perhaps you're referring to hot-swappable server hardware, which I was not (note that I was talking about consumer-grade Apple hardware, so when comparing it to a "PC", it's common sense to assume consumer-grade Intel-compatible hardware). As far as your standard Intel- or AMD-compatible hardware you can buy, your motherboard determines the number and generation of CPU(s) you can use.
Mac CPUs over teh ages.... (Score:4, Informative)
Unlike PCs, which are instaled in ZIF sockets, Macs have had a few diferent ways of connecting the processors, but with one unique, and very advantageous difference.
Since the PCI powermacs came out, the PPC processors have been on daughtercards (except a rare few consumer class machines which had it soldered onto the mobo, but thats a different story).
These daughtercards can have several proicessors on it, and can easily be interchanged.
Unlike PCs, which have the entire processor bus on teh mobo itself, with separate traces for each possible CPU, powemacs usually have the processor bus itself as a daughtercard connector, so there is no difference between a mobo for a 1 cpu machine and a 4-way machine (Such as the Daystar Digital mac clones, which used the same mobo as the PowerMac 9500 of the time, just a 4-way 604e CPU)
These daughtercards have seen a few different formats over the past few generations. The original PCI powermacs had a slotted daughtercard which was simply inserted like any expansion card, and could be used to upgrade any of those machines with up to a G4 cpu, made by some upgrade manufacturers. Then with the Beige G3 machines, came the Zif socket, but which also supported multiple CPUs if necessary, although not many upgrade companies made them.
Then, with the Sawtooth G4 machine (the one which finally brought AGP to the mac) the CPU went onto a daughtercard which was connected via a 423(?) pin rectangular socket, which can accomodate several CPUs.
This socket is what was used in the MP G4 machines, making it possible to use the same Motherboard in all their desktop G4s, simplifying the product line.
The iMacs also use a similar, but incompatible socket, which could theoretically support multiple CPUs.
-=-=-=-
Also, for information on how to Overclock these daughtercards, and several different Macs in general, visit http://violet.berkeley.edu/~schrier/mhz.html
for instructions and some interesting reading.
And for those wanting to overclock a Mac....
beware: you need to make motherboard/daughtercard modifications to do so.
Re:Mac CPUs over teh ages.... (Score:1)
Yeah, but the boot ROM is soldered onto the CPU card in iMacs. (this may be different on the newer Kaheis(sp?) I'm not real sure). When you buy one of the G4 upgrades they ask you to send in the old card so they can pop-off the CPU and replace it with a faster one(sneaky ain't they?)
Re:Mac CPUs over teh ages.... (Score:1)
but at least one upgrade manufacturer had a very interesting workaround for this, they provided their own boot rom, and an additional flash rom.
Before installing the upgrade card, you would run a utility which would make a dump of your Apple-provided ROM, and save it to a special place on the HD.
You could then proceed to install the upgrade card, and upon boot-up, the manufacturer-provided rom would search a specific area of your hard drive and get the ROM image, and copy it over to the Flash ROM, and the upgrade is complete.
As for the current and next iMacs to come out, however, i am not aware if the ROM is still on the CPU daughtercard or finallty made its way to the motherboard.
Nice work (Score:1)
Not Bloody Likely (Score:1)
Apple's will be on to other stuff [terminal34.com] soon anyways.
Re:Not Bloody Likely (Score:1)
Re:Nice work (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Won't melt. (Score:5, Informative)
The G4 towers have a fan, but they are there at least partially because the box has room for three more hard drives, one more removable drive, and four PCI cards in addition to the stock stuff, so you have to leave a big margin for error. The fan switches off when the machine sleeps, though, and the boxes don't run hot. Also, the power supply is inside a G4 tower, but it is outside on the Cube.
Re:Won't melt. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:1)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:1)
This is why people worry about overclocking, for one thing. They would just try it if the worst that could happen was that the case could melt! Heating up a semiconductor increases its conductivity, and makes it more likely that you will burn something out. (Well, part of the burnout risk from overclocking is from the higher clock speed directly (which produces higher currents), not just the resultant heating.)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:1)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:1)
Re:Won't melt. (Score:1)
Then again you have the other extreme. Lets put the processor card from the Powerbook G3 in a G4 Cube and see how long it would take before the victim noticed.
Solution for those cracks? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Solution for those cracks? (Score:3, Informative)
Those "cracks" were faint mold lines in the curves of the plastic. It is extremely difficult to bend plastic like that and avoid some defects.
Of course, as soon as people heard "crack" everyone thought of the unit falling apart. The mold lines were actually very difficult to see. In fact, when ZDnet.com ran an article on the cracks they had to put the unit on a lightboard in order to effectively display them. Only with light shining directly into the plastic were they even noticable.
As always, people overreacted to it and caused a big fuss. The Cube was and continues to be a great machine. Maybe if Apple had priced it a little better from the get-go, it would have seen more success. It made sense to have a Mac that was a step up from the iMac in power and was able to take a monitor of your choice.
Re:Solution for those cracks? (Score:1)
Heat and mods. (Score:3, Informative)
Ok, enough of the boring stuff. Here are some links to keep you guys semi-entertained. The Cube goes into the Museum of Modern Art [nytimes.com]. For those without a NYTimes subscription, MacObserver summarizes the article [macobserver.com].
Now for the fun stuff. Case mods! Check out the Kleenex Cube [applefritter.com] and the Blue Smoke Cube [applefritter.com]. Also, here's an All American Cube [xlr8yourmac.com].
ZIFs, and the timeline of Apple DP machines (Score:5, Informative)
Apple stopped using ZIF a few years ago.
In the tower machines, pre-cube, it went like this:
G3 Yosemite - zif G3 processor, Blue and White minitower.
G4 Yikes! - Zif G4 processor, Graphite and clear, PCI graphics.
G4 Sawtooth - no zif, Apple used a large D shaped white connector and used screws to stabilise the board that carries the processor. AGP graphics.
G4 Mystic - same processor interface as Sawtooth, first of the DP series, with 450DP and 500DP. Also known as Gigabit ethernet.
G4 V'Ger - 466, 533DP, 667, 733. Same as gigabit ethernet, with 133mhz system bus.
G4 - Quicksilver - 733, 800DP, 867. Same as gigabit ethernet model with 133mhz system bus.
G4's from Mystic or newer won't work on Yikes!.
G4's from V-Ger and newer won't work on Mystic (133mhz bus versus the 100mhz bus...other differences..)
XLr8.com sells a dual G4 upgrade card, but it only works on Yikes! and Yosemite (ZIF).
I wish I had better details on where the modifier of the Cube got the extra processor card from a Mystic, and how he added the extra pad to match the dual processors. Was it just held in place with thermal goo and pressure from the retention of the heatsink?
Risc vs Cisc is not the heat issue (Score:1, Interesting)
Regarding xlr8yourmac.com (Score:1)
If it does get hot -- (Score:2)
Re:no (Score:1)
Re:Wow, it'd be almost as fast as my Athlon XP! (Score:1)
Re:Wow, it'd be almost as fast as my Athlon XP! (Score:1)