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LinuxPPC 2000 Update 71

Posted by Hemos from the cool-beans dept.
Ryan writes: "LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 includes the "first graphical versions of the yaboot and miboot boot software" and the installation CD-ROM is now "bootable on all PCI-based Apple Power Macintosh computers, including the dual processor G4, the G4 Cube, and the FireWire PowerBook" (previous versions would only boot on older Macs)." They've got a press release up and everything.
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LinuxPPC 2000 Update More

LinuxPPC 2000 Update

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  • Re:os X (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    XFree86 and gcc run on NT too, and I've used bash as my shell before. That doesn't make NT's bastardized POSIX layer a UNIX.

    What I will say is thank god MacOSX's POSIX layer is way better than NeXT's ever was. I suspect FreeBSD had something to do with that.

  • Re:os X (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Bear in mind that current public builds of the OS X Public beta are largely unoptimized (and in fact still carry a fair amount of debugging code) and lack much support for things video acceleration hardware. I am not certain that a speed assessment at this point would provide meaningful results.

    That noted, OS X's microkernel will slow it vis-a-vis a monolithic *nix, and carrying the attractive but nontrivial weight of a deluxe windowing environment such as Aqua has to steal a few cycles.

    A more valid comparison would pit Linux against Darwin. Darwin, not OS X, is the Apple OS most comparable to Linux, and can be configured to run under with the same windowing environments as Linux (or none at all,as appropriate).

    It would also be interesting to run this comparison on a variety of platforms. Remember, though it has not received extensive outside development, Darwin is open source and platform-independent, and eventually will run as easily on your 1.2 GHz Athlon box as anything from Apple (driver support of course being the potential limitation).

    Also, though it is unclear whether the 7/8/9x00 family and the so-called "beige" G3 boxes will be officially supported for OS X, experience with the beta OS X says that they do in fact work just fine. In general, it appears that any Apple hardware with a PCI bus will support OS X, but anything older that that is going to be dropped.

    It is a slightly more interesting question to ask how those machines will work under OS X after getting 3rd-party CPU upgrades. Early indications are that the upgrade vendors will be both willing and able to provide the necessary patches, but the results may vary from product to product and company to company. Some folks (e.g. Newer Tech customers, as with the hapless 3Dfx owners) may be orphaned at an inopportune moment by the demise of their manufacturers.

  • There's nothing to run it on (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Where's the hardware, dammit? [openppc.org]

  • Lemme ask... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Has the non-Mac PPC situation improved? Are there any non-Mac PPC boards/cheap barebones systems that can run this?

    Will it run on a PPC'ed-Amiga ? (i.e. Blizzards and Cyberstorms)

  • Linux! Making the world a better place for our children.

  • This is roughly what I'm planning on doing myself. I'm still trying to convince our home's Secretary of the Treasury (nicknamed "Honey") to agree to the purchase of a G4. Then my current box -- an upgraded PowerCenter Pro with a 250 MHz G3 -- can become one kickass Linux firewall and server.

    Add a little wireless ethernet to augment our broadband connection, along with LinuxPPC's support for Samba and AppleTalk as well as IP, et voila : her Linux/Windoze box can use the new LAN as effectively as mine. (I could even use Win4Lin on her box via a remote X connection to access Windoze apps whenever necessary. Heterogeneity rules.)

    So, here are some Q's for you all:

    • I wouldn't mind futzing with Darwin or OS X early on -- it is possible to install it on my current hardware (see above for description)?
    • Would I want to?
    • I'm resisting the wife's arguments to pick up an Intel box instead; OS X is sounding too damn sweet to ignore. Got any good verbal kevlar for deflecting her best shots?

    Cheers and a Happy New Year to all..

    ".sig, .sig a .sog, .sig out loud, .sig out .strog"

  • Okay... didn't exist at the time of the "press release" and didn't exist at the time of the article posting. (not on your server or the mirrors).

    While I do appreciate the reply, I still have a problem with these types of press releases. When you post you have the goods... have them.
  • Oh yeah.. woops... I'm a troll because I told the truth about your weak news "story". Geee muh feelinz iz hurt.
  • I believe that Darwin supports Mac OS Extended (HFS+), UFS, and probably Mac OS Standard (HFS). LinuxPPC 2000 does not support it but perhaps the upcoming update (LinuxPPC Q4) will.
  • Frankly, while it's a catchy tune, it's not one of their best. Give me "Peace Sells", any day of the year... pure adrenaline from start to finish.
  • Back in 97, when I first was getting into server os's, and rhapsody was in dev, I layed out a plan for how I was going to meet my computing needs without using M$ or intel, and it's bearing fruition.

    My mac is a powermac 6500, fat chance that it'll run OS X, but it will run various linux distros, I got it in late 96. Since late '83, I've been getting new macs and selling the old ones. But now i need a server.

    So I set out to learn unix, the red hat based linux distro's in particular. I prefer to not even have x-windows on my servers, takes up space and I'm never going to use it.

    OS X is going to be my workstation. I've been using it for months, and it's sweet. LinuxPPC or YellowDog will be on my 6500 as chains/masq box. The only intel hardware are the pci controllers in the 6500. I have a k6-2/via box running linux which will be my file server.

    I imagine this will be the scheme of how OS X will fit in with linux in the home. OS X for day to day work...it literally is fun to use, and has all the nifty unix bits in it to fit in seamlessly with the servers. The servers will be linux or bsd boxen made up of, you guessed it, the old family computer that was otherwise going to be a doorstop or paperweight.

    I can even run samba for my roomate's 'doze box.

    So I don't think Linux and OS X are going to go head to head...I think they'll go together like chocolate and peanut butter.
  • I have some older macs (pre g3) and linux ppc is the only way to get java 2 to run on them.

    Mac java 2 support really sucks (no threads?) untill os X comes and fixes thatn.. I can run it java 2 slowly on a older mac that is fine with me.

    My server runs linuxppc on a slow dsl line.
  • Like another poster. I have a starmax 4000/160 with 96 meg ram. Its dual boot, linux ppc 2000/ macos.

    Well actuall it boots up and the bootX boot managers allows you to pick an os in about 10 seconds. They're a way to set it up so it only uses linuxppc but I'm not familiar with that. I like boot X because they have a drop down menu to change the kernel when things get a little weird (I've had to "backtrack" only on the powermac 7200 that is my server..)

    The mac os side has 2 partitions and I think the linux side has 3. One trick is that you can mount mac HFS (not HFS + aka HFS EXTENDED) volumes on the linuxppc side so you can share files easily that way. Unix style Permissions don't work though.

    All and all it was pretty easy to sey up and use. I'm using the adb ports for mice and keyboard so I'm not sure if it uses the starmax's ps2 ports. I have and eithernet card that works (macsense?) in both macos and linuxppc.

    It works well.

  • I can't seem to find any mirrors on .com or .org, perhaps you could reply back to this with the name of this mirror? I'd like to upgrade my box at home while I'm snowed in, hammered, this NYE weekend :)

    10" - 20"... I lub snow!@#

  • I assume you know the difference between the two: MkLinux uses the Mach microkernel, whereas LinuxPPC is the same as most conventional Linuxi (Linux's?) which use a monolithic kernel.

    I'm no know-it-all, but AFAIK the microkernel handles all the low-level stuff such as I/O, keybaord, etc...

    So merging them does not make much sense... unless you mean LinuxPPC should be sponsored by Apple, which MkLinux is (the last time I checked ;))

    Ryan

  • Those ISOs are for the previous release of LinuxPPC 2000 (3rd quarter, I think).

    I've checked several mirrors as well as ftp.linuxppc.org and all the ISO files I've found are dated Jun 1, 2000.

    Looks like there will be a while before ISOs for LinuxPPC 2000 4th quarter.
  • One thing I need(=really, really want) is IDE Card support for those Mac compatible PCI IDE Cards.

    I would love to toss LPPC 2k on my 30 GB IBM Deskstar, but it's connected to one of those in my PM 9500.
    ...and I'm not sure we should trust this Kyle Sagan either.
  • considering MacOS X won't run on most of the older (although still very new) PowerPC machines. None of my personally owned Macs will run OS X but my dual G4/500 on my desk at work will. Since it won't run on those older machines, *nix variants such as NetBSD (which recently released a new PPC version I believe), LinuxPPC, Suse, Yellowdoglinux, Blacklab Linux (although mostly just YD), Debian, and others will never go away.

    And in response to the reply by "fridgepimp", yes MacOS X is very much Unix. It may not look it on the nice pretty outside but the guts of it is. Have you actually used it? ? Than you probably shouldn't be hurling you're lack of expertise about it to the world. Maybe you should ask an actual Apple Developer about it (and no I'm not going to bother explaining it myself).

    --

  • PCI IDE card support works just fine... and has for a long time now...

    You will probably have to recompile the kernel to enable support for your specific IDE card, but thats about it.

    --Mark
  • Those have been up for almost a year. Does anyone know where to get the Q4 iso? I've checked several of the ftp links from linuxppc.com [linuxppc.com], all seem to be the 2000 release that's been around for a while.
  • So basically what you want is Linux to be where Windows is today... right? Not for many years.
  • True, FreeBSD is porting to PPC, but I believe their focus is on PPC embedded systems, so no great support for Desktop or server.

    -----
    "People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
  • I think you are SO way off base it's not even funny. Darwin [apple.com] is the foundation of OS X. It's a complete BSD system running on a Mach kernel. I've used it quite a bit and the only thing different from my standard linux installation on my Athlon box(aside from kernel differences) is configuration.

    Darwin uses Netinfo(from NEXT) and xml, and linux uses standard SysVinit style startup scripts and text files for configuration. Those things alone do not define a Unix, the philosophy behind the OS design and its structure defines a Unix. Darwin has full glibc AFAIK and gcc. Everything is a file. Symlinks, shells, XFree, Apache, etc. are all part of Darwin(which by default boots into a simple console by the way).

    So I think you're just seriously misinformed.

    -----
    "People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
  • Perhaps Slashdot needs a PowerPC topic icon. We do have a Transmeta topic, for example. The PowerPC does come from a three company alliance, and is popular in embeded devices and workstations. Embeded linux is growing. So the PowerPC processor family will become even more important as time goes on.

    PPC=IBM, Motorola, Apple and a cast of thousands

    --

  • I believe this is what you are looking for:

    ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org/linuxppc-halloween/install/

  • It's the device drivers, stupid. You can't just cut-and-paste BSD drivers, nor Linux drivers into a comfortable OS X skeleton driver and roll your own.

    This really is a big deal since Apple only supports their own lame stuff in OS X.


    blessings,

  • hi ... i have found the isos at:
    http://www.linuxiso.org/linuxppc.html
    http://www.linuxiso.org/download/LinuxPPC_2000_F ul l.iso ~623megs
  • ftp://ftp.kando.hu/pub/CDROM-Images/linuxppc/Linux PPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/linux/linuxppc/im ag es/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/LinuxPPC/lin ux ppc-2000/images/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/os/Linux/distributions/li nu xppc-2000/images/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org/images/LinuxPPC_2000_Full .i mage.bin
    ftp://ftp.linuxberg.com/pub/distributions/LinuxP PC /LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/linuxppc/im ag es/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.apfel.de/pub/LinuxPPC/images/LinuxPPC_ 20 00_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.uni-bremen.de/pub/linux/dist/linuxppc/ im ages/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/ftp.linuxppc.org/ im ages/LinuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://sunsite.uio.no/pub/linux/linuxppc/images/L in uxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.task.gda.pl/pub/linux/linuxppc/images/ Li nuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
    ftp://ftp.karen.hik.se/pub/linux/linuxppc/images /L inuxPPC_2000_Full.image.bin
  • Noice that little (R) under the apple?
    That's the "please don't sue us" mark.

    --
  • I haven't researched linuxPPC for my 7200 yet, and I went and formatted a 9G drive HFS+ figuring the savings would be worthwhile. Do any of the unix flavors support it yet?
  • no sorry, guys, these are the old ones (the 2000 img, relaeased in May... the new one will take some time... like the Suse ones will PPC 7.0 ever show up?? could someone bring me one from MacWorld??
  • It's not even UNIX like

    i honestly don't even know where to start responding to that. I've been using osx as my primary os since late-ish September and i hate to break it to you, but it's 100% bsd.

    Yes, there is a layer burried deep under Aqua

    What do you mean by "deep under"? on my linux box i have to go through a desktop manager, a window manager and Xwindow to get "to the bottom". That's "deeper" than bsd is under Aqua.

    Why don't you give osx a try ( you obviously haven't). you might like it...


  • I can't wait until LinuxPPC starts using apt-get instead of RPM. Installing things that are off the beaten path often turns into a nightmare of tracking down current drivers, etc., some of which inevitably turn out not to run or compile on LinuxPPC. What a royal pain in the ass. Raise your glasses to architecture agnostic code!


  • Looks to me like the PPC is dying as a desktop and as a server platform.

    I do think it'll survive as an embedded platform though maybe ARM will kill it there as well.

  • You either buy an Apple Mac or stump up several thousand dollars just for a motherboard.
  • Take the SuSE package. I have the new 7.0 and the old 6.4 version and i am VERY impressed. Suse 7.0 installed EXACTLY the same way on MAC as on Wintel. It recognised all Hardware, set up my Ethernet, found my USB Printer, installed Xfree 4.0 with hardware-acceleration for Rage 128 and everything worked fine. BTW, SuSE Linux has a full GUI-Installer and you can simply boot from CD, without any fuss about yabooting and first downloading images etc. (i own a iMac Dv)
  • Personal experience here, don't use Yellow Dog if your going for mac-linux. I consider myself competent and installing and maintaining unix boxes, (I have a Ultrix, netbsd and linux running on various platforms constantly), and have had nothing but trouble with yellowdog. I'd use slack for ppc...but as far as I can see, there is no slack for ppc. Debian isn't my favorite distro, but its a damn sight better than those RPM ones. Since your used to BSD anyway use Deb, it should be [more] familer.
  • i still like the idea of mklinus, ive always thought the projects should merge
  • doh! mklinux, time to start using preview
  • The linuxppc-halloween is a beta distro. The Q4 final release sounds like it will have some new stuff like the graphical yaboot loader and the FWB Toolkit. Whether there's any difference in the RPM packages between halloween and Q4, I couldn't tell you. This was originally supposed to be a Q3 release but the LPPC team has suffered a bunch of setbacks this year that forced the delays, most prominently Jason's car accident. I'm hoping that they will use the time between now and Macworld to roll those CDs and have them ready to go - they had some problems fulfilling orders in a timely manner the last time they announced a major release.
  • Some alpha's are already made specifically for Linux, but they're expensive :-(

    The only thing we need would be a **cheap(er)** ATX motherboard for non-x86 CPU's (G4 anyone?) with CPU and enough PCI slots, USB etc. It would then be useful as a desktop machine, server or as a node in a cluster.

    Why oh why doesn't this already exist?

  • a bit of a question for the other mac geeks. and if anyone here is already typing a smartassed reply to my use of "mac" and "geeks" in the same sentence, just don't bother. thanks.

    anyhow...

    i've got a motorola starmax 4000 coming, one of the old clone machines with the 604 chip in it. i'll be partitioning the drive, of course, partially for mac os but i'm trying to decide which of three oses to put on the other half.

    NetBSD - this one is edging out the others right now, if only because i'm running a NetBSD box right now and it's a lot of fun. i'm running it on a quadra, though, so the command line is pretty much the only option unless i want to use X in 1-bit glory.

    LinuxPPC - i have a lot of friends who use linux, and they keep telling me to check it out. is this good enough to use as a workstation? the little serving need that i have is met adequately by the aforementioned quadra, thanks.

    Darwin - hey, what can i say, i'd like to get a little bit of a leg up on getting used to this before OSX goes final.

    any suggestions? anyone running any of these on a starmax and care to throw me a line?

    --saint
    ----
  • MKLinuX is a joke. How in the world can you expect to use Linux and the Mach Kernel? Uhm, correct if I'm wrong (please) but since Linux is the actual kernel, shouldn't that project be called GNU/Mach? I don't mind the idea of GNU running on Mach it just seems a little strange that it can still be called Linux.


  • I really enjoy the thought of having Linux running on power macs. I don't have a mac, but I think that just having it there is enough. Linux crews need only look at the Mac developers code to figure out how to get good USB/Firewire support into the kernel.
    Good x86 developement directly related to Apple, who woulda thunk it?


  • Hahahaha! :) How long does it take someone to get a shell, after it's been installed? Two seconds? Three? :) How long does it take someone to get a shell, after it's been installed? Two seconds? Three?

    The consensus opinion is that there will not be a terminal installed in the release version of OS X. Shells scare Mac users.

    It looks like you will need to sign up, download, and install some sort of developer kit, or order it on CD to get the Terminal.app. Or download a replacement.

    So Hahahaha! :) to you.
  • Just look at our FTP mirrors [linuxppc.com]. It's also on LinuxISO.org [linuxiso.org].

    Also, the Macworld Expo is in less than two weeks.

    It's not just hype. Please reserve your cynicism. :-)

    Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
  • A lot has happened in the past few days! We're making the most of the "2000" part of the product's name. ;-)

    As has been noted on here, the LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 ISO images are now available. Look on our FTP mirror list [linuxppc.com] or on LinuxISO.org [linuxiso.org].

    The CD-ROM set (FWB HDT*PE, install, extras, and source) is now available for pre-order. Shipping is scheduled to begin on January 10.

    We have changed our subscription policy and lowered the prices on Myth II and Applixware Office.

    And, www.linuxppc.ne.jp [linuxppc.ne.jp] has gone live. Look for the announcement about the Japanese version of LinuxPPC 2000 Q4 on there.

    That's it. Whew! :-D

    Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
  • OS X will wipe the floor with LinuxPPC on all iMacs and newer. It's a complete BSD Unix not rinky-dink Mac OS 1->9.

    LinuxPPPC will only ever get onto whatever hardware OS X won't run on. And that's a shrinking legacy base.

    Sad fact: LinuxPPC docs suck and the installation software's even worse. If something's not documented, it doesn't exist. The job's not done until the docs are there and the docs aren't there.

    The installation software and manual are a sad, sorry piece of butt-wipe. If it installs, you're okay. If it doesn't, you'll never have enough information to figure out why or what to do about it. (Hey we're talking Linux here. I should have the source, right? Wrong, its NOT Linux, its BEFORE you can INSTALL Linux.)

    If you're the average user, you toss it and the old hardware into the trash. I just wasted time and money trying to get a usable system because my old Apple hardware is so damn durable.

    But given the results, I can't recommend it. No QA... Might as well use M$. I'll toss out my old Macs before I attempt to use LinuxPPC again.

    Its not worth my time. (12 hours @ my billing rates to get nowhere? [Expletive deleted] it!)

  • Sit down, you're in for a shock:

  • Re:os X (Score:2)

    by hey! ( 33014 )
    I think Mac OSX won't hurt LinuxPPC much and may help a bit here and there.

    I don't think you were going to get many mac "converts" to Linux to begin with, mostly people who already are disposed to Unix who like Macs. While Mac OSX will drain some of these people out, it will make it more respectable to install an alternate Unix in a Mac only shop (there are still quite a few of these), which some folks will do for experimental purposes or for apps that haven't been ported to Aqua or BSD. Then there is the "gateway drug" theory. It will help some people who are interested in the Linux movement to take the plunge; particularly it will introduce a generation of kids in Macish households and schools to Unix. When they need a free Unix to run on a doorstop they won't be afraid to turn to Linux.

    What LinuxPPC really needs is some indepdent source of cheap PPC motherboards, or a cheap book PC style form factor computer that takes advantage of the PPCs relatively low power consumption.

  • NetBSD and more recently OpenBSD both support typcial Apple machines. FreeBSD is well bound to x86, so I don't expect a ppc port from them.

    OpenBSD is a bit rusty still on the ppc, if the mailing list traffic about it I see go by is any indication. I have no idea how well NetBSD runs on ppc.
  • I am not an expert in these matters, so I ask you, is this possible? Could we have completely unique hardware setups that cater for Linux specifically? I hope so, I think it would be very liberating.

    Yes, there's nothing as liberating as having a hardware platform tied to your OS.

    It should also be noted that with any decent open source system, portability for the kernel is basically limited to finding someone to write the (hopefully small) portion of code in the OS that must be platform-specific. The 4.4BSD book talks about writing a portable OS in detail in the beginning of the book.

    As for userland, you're only tied down by what the kernel runs on (duh) and your compiler (you won't have the kernel running on the architecture without compiler support for it in the real world, too). So, what's so special about Linux here? You could make the argument for anything, given modern BSD tends to be easier to do things from source (make world, ports, etc.) then if anything, the argument would be more in BSD's favor.

    Also, your logic is flawed. The x86 line maintaing compatibility back down to 8086 has nothing to do with Windows; Windows won't run on an 8086 and an 8088, and only in a limited manner on the 80286. Intel could drop 8086-80286 compatiblity without much of a fight. But why would they?

    The problem with the x86 line is not maintaining backwards compatiblity, but rather that it's outdated. There's really no "wasted" silicon by having an 80686 be compatible- the 8086 instruction set is a subset of the 8086 instruction set, etc. What needs to be done is a full redesign, getting around all of the issues that causes x86 to be hated by so many people (how interrupts are handled, etc.) and going from ground-up. For as long as we make super-fast 8086s, throwing a handful of new instructions on every generation or so, you still have an 8086 at the core- and that's the problem.

    Think twice before mindless x86-bashing or mindless Linux-advocacy.

  • While the party line of LinuxPPC is that it only supports PCI-based machines, there is, in fact a non-Mach Linux kernel [sourceforge.net] which currently runs on 6100, 7100, and 8100 (NuBus) Power Macs. Granted, it's not part of LinuxPPC.com's distribution, but it's still part of the LinuxPPC world.
  • The mklinux project is actually quite successful, and as far as I know, the only version of Linux that will run on Nubus based Macs. Anyhoo, Mach acts as an abstraction layer and pager for the hardware, making it much easier to port the Linux kernel. (no hardware-specific code was required; just a matter of gettign Linux to talk to Mach.) So you can call it GNU/Linux/Mach if you want.
  • LinuxPPC and OS-X will live in harmony. First, LinuxPPC (IMHO) is significantly faster than OS-X at everything. Also, Apple seems to have forgotten that it has created computers before the Beige-G3 series (circa 1997), so all of those people with a 7500/8500/9500 class machine that wants a robust, server operating system will have no other supported choice. Finally, Linux has matured for several years both on intel & PPC, where MacOS X is a brand new OS that will encounter some maturing problems.
  • This discussion is largely moot. MacOS X (Contrary to popular belief) is not UNIX. It's not even UNIX like. Yes, there is a layer burried deep under Aqua and the NEXTStepish file system, and most unix software can be made to compile, but for most UNIX/Linux enthusiasts, using OS X as a Unix variant would be like mainstream Mac users trying to switch to Linux to improve stability--yes, you can probably live with what you'll get, but it's far from ideal...even compared to what you left.

    I'll trade my ppclinux G4 for Mac OS X when I see mac users flocking to Linux for it's ease of use. Probably not any time soon.

    -fp
  • This would be called fair use.

    It would definately be difficult to argue that the usage here could be construed as an endorsement by Apple nor could it be easily argued that it dilutes their brand.

    The use of their logo, however, in a window manager theme would be such a use. Also, Apple can write C&D letters all they want, but that doesn't make them right. Apple has lost a LOT of lawsuits because they attmpted to file baseless legal suits in an effort to intimidate other companies.

    -fp
  • LinuxPPC (IMHO) is significantly faster than OS-X at everything

    this is true... but osx is still in beta and it does have all that singing and dancing to support...

  • I would definitely recommend LinuxPPC (or Yellowdog, etc) on that box. My experience with NetBSD on Mac hardware is that it's not very well optimised, and it's hard to get X to work for shit.

    LinuxPPC is not only "good enough" to use as a workstation, it is perfect. I myself run LinuxPPC on a PowerMac 8550/132 (Pretty much the same as your box I think), and it runs so smoothly that I use the machine preferentially to my G4/500 running MacOS. I also use it for some serving -- solid as a rock and pretty quick, too.

    I can say pretty confidently that you will experience no stability or performence problems with LinuxPPC on that hardware, either. I've only ever had one kernel panic on my LinuxPPC workstation, and that was when I was trying to write to a badly damaged HFS partition. The 604-based PPC machines are probably the ones that LinuxPPC has been most extensively tested on.

    One note, however, is that you will need to disable Gnome and use a more lightweight window manager. Gnome is just unacceptably slow on older hardware. Also, figuring out all the OpenFirmware settings can be a hassle.

    Good Luck!

  • Those guys have been doing a great job the last couple of years. Sure the documentation isn't always the greatest, but if you want to turn Mac hardware into a production server, ya can't beat it.

    The BSD core notwithstanding, I think it may be a couple of years before OS X becomes as fast and robust a server platform as LinuxPPC. Great job guys!

  • running an open-source OS. The G4 Cube with a 15" flat panel would be totally awesome.

    It's worked for quite a while.

    I don't mind the apple lawsuits. Why do so many people think they have to copy them? There are so many varations in design besides all in one translucent boxes. How about making a truly convergent PC based on ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder?

  • Wouldnt Apple be pissed about having the Apple logo on this story? As seen lately they have been asking most of the community not to include any copyrighted or trademarked material and I'm sure the logo falls into that. Could someone from the /. editorial answer. Thx.

  • Where is the product? (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 28, 2000 @08:08PM (#1390165)
    CDs not available until MacWorld? Download not available yet? What gives? Did slashdot fall for an early announcement? The product is called LinuxPPC 2000 so I assume if it was announced in 2001 that would be bad. Sounds like slashdot reprinted a 2-bit marketing ploy.

  • Re:os X (Score:3)

    by Bill Currie ( 487 ) on Thursday December 28, 2000 @07:24PM (#1390166) Homepage
    I don't think OS X will affect LinuxPPC all that much. There are those that like Apple hardware but hate Apple software and many of those are probably the types developing LinuxPPC in the first place:). Also, another thing to remember is that Darwin is BSD based while Linux is svr4 based. Those what would be interested in Darwin for it's unix flavour probably wouldn't be interested in Linux anyway (it might, however, affect the prospects of {Free,Open,Net}BSD ppc ports (do they exist?), but I can't say in which direction). The most likely scenario I forsee wrt Darwin and Linux is new Darwin users (because they baught the PPC machine with Darwin) finding out about Linux and going "hrmm, what's this? I think I'll give it a go". Some will like it, some will hate it, but in the end, I feel Darwin is actually an opportunity for LinuxPPC (and mklinux, I imagine).

    No matter what, LinuxPPC (and Linux in general) is and will be creating interesting times :)

    Bill - aka taniwha
    --

  • Why doesn't cheaper non-x86 stuff exist?

    One word: Volume

    I work at API NetWorks. We have an ATX sized Alpha motherboard with USB, sound, ethernet, PCI, etc... A -complete- system is about $3000 or under from our resellers. (We don't sell direct, tho you can buy the board/CPU alone thru a distributor of ours)

    Back to the volume answer. Without volume, you don't get price. Everyone would "love" an Alpha but in the real world, the people that buy it are the people that need it. (scientific/high performance computing) There's NOT a large influx of Slashdot readers knocking our doors down looking for an alternative. Why? #1 issue: Cost. My first 486 cost $4000. Most Slashdot readers will be damned if they pay more than $1000 for a PC. Tell me, how is Alpha, or any other "non-x86" CPU supposed to compete at those price levels?? I'd really like to know! CmdrTaco likes to "avoid stories about the businessy side of the whole Open Source thing" but quite frankly, it's the "businessy" (sic) thing that pays MY paycheck.

  • os X (Score:3)

    by Snuffub ( 173401 ) on Thursday December 28, 2000 @07:02PM (#1390168) Homepage
    What do people think about the prospects of linux ppc with os x just around the corner and darwin just now gathering steam? I hope it survives just to provide some variety and so the projects can benefit from each other, but i think its outlook is rather grim on all but older macs.

  • Excellent (Score:3)

    by Maldivian ( 264175 ) on Thursday December 28, 2000 @07:10PM (#1390170)
    As a nerd, I'm always interested in good hardware and good software. We've been blessed with good software for a while :) And now with the excellent Apple hardware, I think we have a winner. If your a videophile, then I think this is the best place to start messing. I've done some coding on the video encoding/decoding side for mpeg and would really like an excellent firewire implmentation worked out. The current kernel has some really nice hooks and latches for firewire and soon this would go into PPC's. I know a number of mac users who would jump onto Linux just as soon as the video software on it gets better. Right now, with gimp, coreldraw and so on we do have a pretty good image editing collection. One other media related improvement would be something to do with sound (which seems to be totally ignored). I would help if I understood the many qualms in coding sound software. Wont it be nice if SoundForge dudes ported their software to a free OS? (Probably to i386 Linux :( ).
  • ...so that we can throw off the encumbrance of hardware compatibilty completely. It would be so great, when I choose a pc, if I could choose every little detail of my preferred architecture. The problem with the x86 line is that it is dominated by Windows, and so must be hardware compatible with the earliest 8086. If Linux became a force in the market, then instead of having to piggy back on systems designed for other OS's, complete systems could be designed specifically for linux from the ground up.

    I am not an expert in these matters, so I ask you, is this possible? Could we have completely unique hardware setups that cater for Linux specifically? I hope so, I think it would be very liberating.

  • Who said is was just for "Mac"? (Score:4)

    by macdaddy ( 38372 ) on Thursday December 28, 2000 @08:47PM (#1390172) Homepage Journal
    LinuxPPC also runs on a large number of RS/6000's, Amigas, Tivo, and others [linuxppc.com]. You should probably check into it before you starting spouting shit about Macs and LinuxPPC.

    --

  • Re:os X (Score:4)

    by dbarclay10 ( 70443 ) on Thursday December 28, 2000 @09:00PM (#1390173)
    Well, I hate to argue this, because it all depends on one's definition of UNIX.

    "A layer buried deep under Aqua"

    Hahahaha! :) How long does it take someone to get a shell, after it's been installed? Two seconds? Three? Doesn't seem terribly buried to me. XFree86 has already been ported. GCC already works. What more do you want.

    "can be made to compile"

    That makes it sound like you've got to absolutely FORCE things to compile, with endless tweaking and modifications. Frankly, by the time OSX is released, there will be relatively little pain in porting over apps(at least those apps that took any amount of portability into concern).

    I'm sorry, but you must not know what you're talking about. There is a huge, massive, big-ass UNIX layer under Aqua. Just because you can't figure out how to get to it doesn't mean it's "not even UNIX like" nor "deep under".

    Sorry.

    Dave

    Barclay family motto:
    Aut agere aut mori.
    (Either action or death.)

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