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Apple's Terms No Longer Allow ITMS Purchases Outside of US
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:57 AM
from the just-a-test-to-see-if-you're-reading-the-terms dept.
from the just-a-test-to-see-if-you're-reading-the-terms dept.
JasonDT writes "I just accepted the new terms of service for iTunes and found that I will no longer be allowed to access US iTunes outside of the United States. This may seem like no big deal but, I am a US citizen living abroad and I regularly purchase and view TV and movies from AppleTV. Not to mention US citizens just traveling abroad. Does anyone know if this has been enforced or have themselves been affected by this?"
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News: eReader.com Limits E-book Sales To US Citizens 182 comments
An anonymous reader writes "eReader.com seems to have begun applying distribution restrictions to its library. I first noticed that there was a FAQ page about distribution restrictions this morning. When I tried to order a few books this afternoon I simply couldn't — a large banner on the order confirmation told me the books had distribution restrictions. I checked a number of titles but it seems a large number of books are no longer available to non-US citizens like me. It is interesting to note that this policy change got implemented shortly after Barnes&Noble purchased Fictionwise. I have no idea if the new owners are behind this new policy but it seems crazy to restrict sales of ebooks. I've bought dozens of ebooks from eReader the past 4 years. I still have 15 dollar store credit but cannot buy any of the books I am interested in." (Right now, the link that should display these new geographic restrictions returns an error message that says the page is being updated.) Sounds like Barnes & Noble is taking its cues from Apple.
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Quick someone register itunesproxy.com (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Even better, someone register itunes.apple.com, quick!
HA HA HA HA (Score:5, Interesting)
I bet that the poster of this article is exploring his options, after all, he's not allow to purchase his media legally, so perhaps he would be better served by a free alternative?
I am sure Apple did it only to make someone else happy (labels, investors, foreign governments, us government, etc...) however, it's ridiculous to suggest that this will do anything but increase piracy.
Re:HA HA HA HA (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:HA HA HA HA (Score:5, Informative)
You know Spotify has done the same? A fair bit of music is unavailable in several countries due to licensing issues.
This isn't Apple, Spotify or any stores fault. It's the music business.
Yay for making it easy for consumers to buy music.
Parent
Re:HA HA HA HA (Score:5, Informative)
What??!?!? Do you not know how to transfer a file from one computer to another??? Find the file in your music library, email it to yourself or put it on a thumb drive or whatever, and load it on your home computer. When prompted, input your iTMS account info to get the DRM key to play the file (that is assuming you used a different iTMS account on your work computer than your home computer). Seriously, this "obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window" is just stupid talk.
Parent
Re:HA HA HA HA (Score:4, Informative)
What complete and total ass-hattery.
So if DRM serves their profit-driven interests, what does the removal of DRM from every song they sell in the iTunes Store serve in your twisted version of reality?
Now please wipe the foam from your mouth. Yes, Apple exists to make a profit. It seems to me that they do so by making products that people want to own for themselves, and by being an advocate for their customers in their dealings with other companies.
BTW, Microsoft's subscription model (which is way heavier on DRM than iTunes ever was) is virtually ignored because most people consider it vastly inferior. Who wants to pay a fee each and every month to listen to music, only to lose all their music should they stop paying? How many times do you feel the need to pay for that copy of Baba O'Riley anyway?
Yaz.
Parent
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." (Score:5, Insightful)
he apple apologists need to seriously STFU with this "it isn't apple's fault!" nonsense. They're partners. Apple is not some holy child that hath cometh down from the mountain to bestow upon the unwashed masses all that is holy and good.
I'd tell you to a heaping spoonful of STFU yourself, but I think you've done Apple enthusiasts everywhere a service by serving as a quintessential example of knee-jerk Apple Critic. You certainly don't know what you're talking about with regards to how the DRM works, you seem to be ignorant of Apple's actions and stated intentions with regard to said DRM, you seem to have reflexively confused licensing issues with DRM issues, and you seem generally confused about the value and state of other players in the marketplace.
Exhibit A:
"Bought that song on your computer at work? Want to listen to it on your computer at home? Well guess what, charlie, unless you find some obscure bullshit setting in some hidden window in some far off corner of some far off menu in iTunes, $1 more shall go to the Steve."
Anyone who's ever used iTunes on more than a single computer knows there's a simple solution to this problem. It doesn't involve an obscure menu, in fact, iTunes will *prompt* you for the necessary information as soon as you try to play the song.
Exhibit B:
A moments of thought would reveal that the geographic restrictions on purchases have little to do with DRM and everything to do with licensing, since DRM (on music anyway) isn't tied to a region, and isn't the technology used in restricting the purchase at any rate.
Exhibit C:
"Why do you think people don't use amazon?"
They do, actually. Their MP3 store launched a year and a half ago and sell about 10% of what iTunes does. Some estimates place them as the #2 digital retailer:
http://mashable.com/2008/03/26/amazon-mp3-takes-2/ [mashable.com]
Furthermore, that figure almost certainly represents sales mostly taken from iTunes. Almost every iPod/iTunes user I know has switched.
Exhibit D:
"Or why microsoft's VASTLY superior subscription model is ignored?"
I can see value in a subscription model, I've participated in Rhapsody and Satellite Radio before. But at the end of the day, many people -- apparently more people -- happily choose ownership of their selection of media rather than ongoing rent to access to a broader selection, so it's not particularly clear that it's a vastly superior model.
Overall, it appears that the purpose of your post is really to express some ill-defined anger at Apple as a company or to project a straw-man image of people who buy and enjoy their products.
It certainly isn't to express well-considered criticism of some of the company's practices.
Parent
You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Insightful)
not where you were born. When I was an American living and working in Germany, I was subject to the laws of Germany. I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations. Yes I was an American citizen, but I wasn't in the united states.
Now, if you are working on behalf of the US government at a diplomatic consulate/mission or in the military, then you may have a gripe, and I believe Apple should do something to work with you. Especially if your billing is to an APO address.
Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Funny)
Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.
LOL, I think this might be the most sensible post to invoke Godwin's Law ever!
Parent
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Interesting)
It also is quite wrong. It is legal to own "Mein Kampf" in Germany. It is not legal to sell, give or even show it to somebody else. It is also illegal to purchase it as far as I know.
Possession however is fine.
Parent
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Informative)
It is neither of those. The copyright to mein kampf and other Nazi works fell to the state of bavaria, which by copyright simply doesnt allow any copying of mein kampf and hasnt since the second world war. If you happen to have one of the old copies from the WW2, or you bought it a state that doesnt reckognize avarias copyright on it, youre perfectly fine to do anything you want with it. Of course, there are several anti-nazi-agitation laws and selling the book on ebay may invoke some of those laws, but theres nothing specific to this one book and applies to all nazi memorabilia.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because I'm american and we are allowed the freedom of speech inside the US doesn't mean I can have a copy of Mein Kampf in Germany.
Bad example. It is a common misconception that Mein Kampf is illegal in Germany. You are allowed to have a copy (even though it you will probably not find a new one anywhere).
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they could hold a book burning party
--jeffk++
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
For the record, you can be subject to both the laws of the country where you live and where you were born simultaneously, even if the two are not the same. ;P
American paedophilia and tax laws come to mind...
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think the submitter is complaining that what iTunes is doing is illegal (or that he should be subject to US law while abroad). I think he is complaining that what iTunes is doing is stupid.
He wants to be a customer. He wants to give them money. But they (iTunes, or whichever content providers require this rule) want to restrict things regionally. These regional restrictions are inconvenient, arbitrary, and illogical in an age of ubiquitous global network connectivity, and easy trans-national travel. Someone abroad can circumvent the restrictions easily with a proxy. Conversely a US citizen on a trip abroad is denied access (whereas it would have been fine if they had downloaded it while in the US and carried it on their computer on the plane). Thus it doesn't seem that the rule accomplishes its nominal goal. Actually for the most part the nominal goal isn't even clear. In short, the restrictions are silly.
Of course it is within iTune's ability (technical and legal) to impose such restrictions. But it just seems illogical, since anywhere that the content is not available through a legitimate source (or available but only after a substantial delay) will simply increase the amount of circumvention (proxy, file sharing, etc.). So why don't these companies want the money being offered to them?
Parent
Re:You are subject to laws of where you live (Score:5, Insightful)
He wants to be a customer. He wants to give them money. But they (iTunes, or whichever content providers require this rule) want to restrict things regionally.
In some cases yes, in many cases its not that they WANT to restrict things, its that they HAVE to.
If Warner owns song X in the US, and Sony owns it Brazil, then no matter how much Warner wants to sell you the song in Brazil they CAN'T. And if Sony owns it but doesn't want to sell it, or wants to sell it but charge more than Warner, that's life. Warner can't do squat about it except say, hey, come to the US and buy a copy while you are actually here.
In the case I describe Warner isn't trying to restrict things regionally, but don't own the rights to distribute the song in Brazil, and someone else does, so they just can't.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations. Yes I was an American citizen, but I wasn't in the united states.
Actually, the law you would've broken was a US law, there's a reason lots of software that contained encryption was written in a way that allowed it to ship without the encryption, so that europeans and others could use the encryption module/plugin/component coded outside the US.
Also, I think this move is partly to stop non-americans from getting US iTunes accounts so that they can buy movies and TV shows (yeah, are you listening Apple? We're still waiting!).
/Mikael
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
not where you were born. When I was an American living and working in Germany, I was subject to the laws of Germany. I couldn't download a browser with more than 40-bit encryption at the time due to export regulations...
Couldn't download it *from the US*.
Don't feel special (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
As someone who has visited Australia several times over the past few years, I'm wondering why the Aussies would want to travel overseas.
Bored with the moderate weather in NSW? Move to QLD.
Bored with the stoner culture around southern coastal QLD? Move to SA.
Want better wines? Move to WA.
Want to get away from civilization? Move to the NT.
Want to get away from the oppressive heat? Move to Victoria.
Feeling REALLY interested and want to travel to strange and exotic lands?
Well, there's always Tazmania.
Compartmentalizing the Internet (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the dismantling of the internet. If you have the slightest knowledge of how media cartels work, not just American ones but World wide, then you know it was just a matter of time before market segmentation reared its ugly head onto the web. Google is not exempt either, they've been IP filtering their early days.
Deployed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
works in Vietnam (Score:3, Informative)
I live in Vietnam and regularly purchase apps for my iPhone which, uh, has gained the ability to work here ;).
I saw the warning too but short of setting up some sort of proxy I have no other options but to try and use it here. Fortunately it works (for now).
Geography - not nationality (Score:5, Informative)
This has nothing to do with being an USA citizen and all about where you are geographically located. If you have a credit card registered to a USA address, then you can buy quite happily from the US store (Apple isn't going to know the real story), but not if you have a non-USA address. This policy has been in place since day 1 of the iTunes store, and is in place because of the distribution rights set in place by the record companies, so in reality this is a non-story.
Re:Geography - not nationality (Score:4, Interesting)
Odd, I have a Canadian credit card and itunes still takes my money (;-))
--dave
Parent
it hasn't been enforced (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Amazon even disables their service within the US if you don't use a US credit card. (I can walk into any record store in the US while on vacation and buy a CD or DVD using my credit card, but I can't buy songs or videos from Amazon because I don't have a US billing address. How silly.)
Amazon MP3 (Score:4, Informative)
Try out Amazon MP3 [tinyurl.com].
It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. Plus, it runs on Linux just fine (32-bit has packages, force it on 64-bit, use getlibs, and it works fine).
YEARwithoutDRM [yearwithoutdrm.com]
iTunes Plus (Score:5, Interesting)
It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. And it doesn't install a helper application into your browser, just waiting for someone to figure out how to slide an exploit into a ".amz" file.
For Safari under Leopard, to remove that erroneous tagging of ".amz" as "safe" (there's no such thing as a "safe" file), remove the entry from ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.DownloadAssessment.plist .
Parent
Re:Amazon MP3 (Score:5, Informative)
Try out Amazon MP3 [tinyurl.com].
It's cheap, DRM-less, and easy. Plus
... it can't be used outside the USA either. Great alternative there.
Parent
Completely out of control (Score:5, Insightful)
The last time I was presented with the "agreement" for the iTunes store, I pulled up a terminal and ran wc on it. It was 4,931 words long, not including referenced agreements. You can go buy a CD at a store with out signing a contract, much less one nearly 5,000 words long.
It contained all manor of claims of how Apple could unilaterally change the terms for purchased music and required that you "agree to agree" to future terms.
Having taken some contract law courses ( but IANAHPAADL - I am not a highly paid Apple attack dog lawyer), much of it seemed unconscionable. Specifically, consideration from Apple (ability to play already purchased songs, access the store, etc.) seems weak-to-non-existent in light of the fact that it can be arbitrarily revoked according to the terms.
Also, I am generally an Apple fan, but this is one area where I think they are really out of control.
It's been this way for a while. (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, I got the message that iTMS was not to be used from outside of the US months ago (I live in Japan). They said they might check. Thus far, they haven't. I wouldn't worry about it.
Also, Amazon MP3 won't sell to me anymore, although they do for my friends. I had to buy a book for work from the US site and registered my Japanese credit card (my work can only reimburse expenditures made in yen), and then, like magic, Amazon MP3 stopped working. I've even tried making a new account with a different US credit card, and yet Amazon now knows I'm in Japan, but doesn't know that my buddy down the street, who has only ever used his US credit card with the US site, is as well.
I absolutely hate pirating music. I reject it on ethical grounds, and I hate tracks being mis-labeled (I have never entered track names by myself--who are these people who can't spell who are entering ID3 tags on pirated songs???) and having no control over the bitrate I get, and the album art requiring looking and futzing... It's just a shitty way to get music for all involved.
But when I'm not even allowed to buy it online (except for on CD--which I still do for music I really, really like, so I can rip it lossless), what's a boy to do?
The world was looking so pretty, without all those borders... Why do companies and governments need to redraw them through technological means? The promise of the internet is being quashed everywhere you look...
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, Canada is still outside the US...for now~
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:4, Funny)
Meh, let them keep it. It half full of French anyway....
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Pessimist!
I prefer to think it half empty of French.
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Informative)
No idea, but it's something you don't have to worry about if you get your media from other sources that don't keep on putting up artificial barriers...
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:4, Funny)
The TOS specifically mentions the annexation of Canada.
It's official people.
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Apple annexed Canada? Just wow. I didn't know that had that much cash on hand.
Well, congrats Steve.
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:US and Canada? (Score:5, Funny)
Fortunately, we have Palin standing on the coast up there keeping a close eye on them.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What do you have to say about Apple's warm and fuzzy user-friendly DRM now?
I say "I just upgraded three tracks from Joe Hisaishi's soundtrack to "Kikujiro" to iTunes Plus", what do you expect me to say? I should refuse to take advantage of the fact that Apple finally got the labels to agree to let them finish removing the cold and prickly DRM from the trackes they're licensing?
And whoever modded you "funny" must be similarly out of touch.
Re:use torrents (Score:5, Funny)
He could use that service that we never speak about.
Parent
Re:use torrents (Score:5, Funny)
The Zune store?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Either they're not checking or the credit card company isn't allowed to disclose the customer's address without a court order, as my canadian card works fine.
--dave