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Apple Store Reopens With Many New Products
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Mar 03, 2009 09:22 AM
from the such-a-world-of-bounty dept.
from the such-a-world-of-bounty dept.
An anonymous reader writes "After being down for a couple of hours, the Apple store reopened this morning. All of the speculation has turned out to be a reality with Apple dishing out many new products and among them are; iMac 20", three iMac 24" models, two Mac Mini models, and two Mac Pro models — with one including an ATI Radeon HD 4570 graphics card. Also as rumored, there was the new Airport Extreme, and Time Capsule in 1TB. The Mac Pro is the granddaddy of them all. The lower-end Quad Core system includes a 2.66Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor, 3GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, 18x double-layer Superdrive, and a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $2,499. Finally, we have the 8-core system which includes two 2.26Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors, 6GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, the 18x double-layer Superdrive, and of course the NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $3,299."
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Submission: Apple Store Reopens with Many New Products by Anonymous Coward
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Eh (Score:5, Insightful)
Wake me up when they make a nice, expandable, mid ranged desktop class Mac. I still think that's the big gap in their lineup.
I think that category is fading (Score:3, Insightful)
How many people who would buy one would upgrade it? At the mid range you can get a pretty good (Windows or Linux) laptop, or iMac, or Mac Mini. High-end, sure, you want to put in the latest and greatest video card, or USB 3.0 card, without buying a new box. But any other expansion? Why not use USB? Or bluetooth? Most devices will work Well Enough that way. The EyeTV HDTV tuner is USB and works fine.
A Mac Mini looks to be a decent media center if you get a wireless keyboard+mouse and download HandBrake+V
Re:I think that category is fading (Score:5, Informative)
The iMac supports video spanning [apple.com] - you just need to get the right video-out adpater. The new ones even allow dual-link DVI.
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Re:I think that category is fading (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:I think that category is fading (Score:5, Informative)
No -- you are wrong. Lift your eyes up a bullet point, and you will see "Support for external display in extended desktop mode". In other words, the iMac supports spanning AND mirroring.
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Re:iMac will drive multiple monitors (Score:5, Informative)
I've been doing that with my 24" white iMac for a couple years now. I have Windows running in Parallels full-screen on one monitor, and Mac OSX full-screen on the other. It's a great cross-platform development environment, as well as a home machine.
Macs handle multi-screen pretty cleanly - no mucking about needed. Trying to get it to work well on my Dell laptop is another matter... every time you undock it it gets farked up and you have to re-set all the settings.
MadCow.
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Re:iMac will drive multiple monitors (Score:5, Informative)
That's funny because I had the exact opposite experience with a dell laptop and a macbook air. The Air wouldn't detect the majority of displays plugged into it so you have to force it to use multiple monitors
I've used laptops from Dell, IBM, and Apple and so far only the Apple one has smoothly worked for me. Generally I use the laptop when I'm out and about, plug into a monitor at the office and plug into a different monitor when working from home. With Mac laptops I can close the lid and take it to the coffee shop and open it and it works. I can close the lid unplug my work monitor, take it home and plug in my home monitor open the lid and it works. With all the others I had to unplug the monitor before suspending then un-suspend, then plug in a new monitor, and even then I often had to mess with the preferences.
It's one of the reasons I haven't bought a Lenovo laptop for a long time.
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Re:I think that category is fading (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. At some point you have say "this costs too much and isn't worth it." $599 is a 20% increase over $499.
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Re:I think that category is fading (Score:4, Insightful)
I have to respectfully disagree with you on the "midrange" idea. Apple did that under Scully and had a panalopy of mis-named models, like Centris, Deforma? Quadro, Hydra? I think it confused the market.
All they need is ONE model, and they could even call it...drum roll...Macintosh. There would be no confusion, as long as they made one model (with the same type of upgrade options you see now on the Apple store). A simple tower with two or three expansion slots an expansion bay..generic Intel processor, like a 2.4 C2duo, 2gb ram, 500mb hard drive, and $600 price tag (no monitor). It would be a couple hundred dollars more than an equivalent Dell Inspiron 5xx, but it would run OSX (worth the extra money) and benefit from consistently high consumer reports ratings in dependability and service.
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Re:Eh (Score:5, Insightful)
Expansion isn't as important these days. Most people will only want to upgrade the HDD and perhaps the RAM, both of which the iMac will do. You can also add a 2nd monitor to it, USB will do the rest. People who make their own computers or have some niche requirements may not like the all-in-one designs, but that's not the majority, and hardly a glaring gap in their line-up.
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Re:Eh (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think people who want to install an eSATA or SCSI card in a mid-ranged Apple computer are in the majority. I'm sure it sucks for those that need to, but that wasn't my point.
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Re:Eh (Score:4, Insightful)
Wake me up when they make a nice, expandable, mid ranged desktop class Mac.
Amazingly, that now pretty much describes the bottom end Mac Pro...
...Except for the price tag.
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Re:Eh (Score:4, Informative)
Amazingly, that now pretty much describes the bottom end Mac Pro...
...Except for the price tag.
Except for the price tag and the use of overpriced server-class components, yes. The really screwy thing, of course, is that the 24" iMacs all have 4GB of RAM, whereas the hideously expensive quad-core Mac Pro has only 3GB (and you can bet Apple will charge through the nose for more).
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Re:Eh (Score:4, Insightful)
Amazingly, that now pretty much describes the bottom end Mac Pro...
...Except for the price tag.
Except for the price tag and the use of overpriced server-class components, yes. The really screwy thing, of course, is that the 24" iMacs all have 4GB of RAM, whereas the hideously expensive quad-core Mac Pro has only 3GB (and you can bet Apple will charge through the nose for more).
And you can bet that it has 3GB because it's using triple-channel DDR3, which is required with the latest Core i7 processors and boards.
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Re:Eh (Score:4, Insightful)
*sigh*
Look, I don't like iMacs because of the built in display. That might not be YOUR problem with them (the cost doesn't bug me) but it's my primary beef.
People like iMacs. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't be selling them. I understand why the crowd here doesn't like them and even doesn't get them. Again, they're not selling to you. They're selling to someone who just plugs it in and turns it on like any appliance. It's easier to set up than a DVD player.
Also, people here seem to measure computer purely in terms of tech specs. There is something to be said for the simplicity of the iMac. Although its strengths are weaknesses to someone like me.
The critics here can complain and complain that THEIR needs aren't being met by Apple, but again... Apple doesn't care. The iMac is an exceptionally popular machine. I wouldn't use it, but I'd certainly consider putting my mom on one (she's on a Mini now). It's stylish, clean, etc. Those things MATTER to some people and they certainly matter to the people that buy them.
Again, I would love an affordable Apple tower (I'd even pay more than normal for it if the case were half as cool as the Pro's) and don't want an iMac. I also hate BMWs, but don't find myself confused when people buy them. BMW isn't selling to ME. That's the problem people miss. "Apple is sitting on a gold mine if they just targeted people with my needs and budget! There are dozens of me! They're so stupid."
They're not stupid. That's why they're continuing to make bank. Evil? In many respects. Lock in? Totally. Products not well suited to gamers? Who woulda thunk it? But they don't sell to you and they don't make OS X generically available because they don't find that it's financially viable and no forum dweller is going to convince them otherwise. The problem continue to be, in this crowd in particular, a sense of entitlement. "I deserve to be able to install OS X wherever I want." No, you don't no more than I "deserve" to be able to throw a Honda alternator in a Dodge.
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More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:5, Interesting)
markets.
Man are the fanbois belly aching on many of the bigger sites. What shocked most is that prices for the new machines went up and in some cases a lot. An example comparing old aussie prices to new http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7199753&postcount=164 [macrumors.com]
What is missing is...
LED screens on the iMacs
Blu-Ray (of course no one really expects it)
Quad Cores
Mac Mini got its update but the price is absurd as well.
For those of us who are still upgrading (I have an older 2.13c2d white model) some selected upgrades push ship times out four to six weeks (like buying an ati 4850 chipset)
Amazing that what Apple considers affordable is getting more extreme. Consumer level goods are professional level pricing.
Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:5, Insightful)
Too damn right!
It's priced at 599 US dollars, and at 599 Euros (for the cheaper one)... except that 599 Euros is well over 750 dollars. I'm sure there will always be price differences, but this is just plain idiotic. That's a price increase of 25%. I think it would actually be cheaper to buy direct from the US and pay shipping and import taxes!
-- Steve
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Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:4, Informative)
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Not as American as you might think (Score:5, Insightful)
The majority of their Macs, iPhones and displays are manufactured, assembled and shipped straight to their destination from Asia. The only parts of Apple that is really American is their R&D and sales and marketing parts, the rest was outsourced years ago.
Instead of looking at the Pound-Dollar relationship you probably want to take a closer look at the relationship between the pound and the currencies of South Korea, etc.
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Re:Not as American as you might think (Score:4, Insightful)
The only parts of Apple that is really American is their R&D and sales and marketing parts
And the only parts of Apple that distinguish a Mac from any old Lenovo or Lenovo-compatible PC is their R&D and sales and marketing parts.
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Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:5, Informative)
The new Mini is expensive, and there's little justification for it at that spec level.
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Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (Score:4, Informative)
The U.S. dollar sucks right now and europeans should be paying much more for U.S. products. I was in europe last summer and it cost me a tremendous amount of money, just because of the exchange rate.
Um, no, if the US dollar is down, then while you (as noted) should be spending a lot more in Europe, they in turn should see much LOWER prices (in their terms) for US products.
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For the Mac Minis,... (Score:4, Insightful)
an increase in price, and not a minor one.
The entry level Mini now has 128 MB of video RAM, but a shared one as before and with still 1 GB RAM total.
Then again, you get even more of these USB ports than before - great, isn't it? Especially considering the price jump of 100 euros over here in Europe.
But at least one good thing: Apple did not throw out Firewire from the Minis, so we should probably praise them for this, day and night...
Re:what in the world are you smoking? (Score:4, Informative)
So you're getting twice as much graphics memory that is also faster graphics memory.
Well, due note that SHARED BY MAIN MEMORY bit. It's important. Essentially, you're not really getting ANY graphics memory. You're just getting slightly faster main system memory, and the graphics chip is now willing to carve out twice as much of that main memory for it's own use.
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Weaker video all around next to the old systems an (Score:4, Informative)
Weaker video all around next to the old systems and a even bigger mac pro rip off $2500 for a core i7 based system with ONLY ONE CPU and nvidia 9500 video as the GT 120 is a 9500. What a ati card pay $200 more for a 4870 512 makeing it cost $150 + $200 = $350 makeing it about $100 more then other places you can get core i7 systems with better base video and the same cpu speed FOR ABOUT $1000+ less some even with 6gb of DDR3 ram. And why mini DP on a full size video card why not full DP with a DP to mini DP cable?
The old $1,199.00 $1,499.00 level imacs used to have ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory and ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB with a NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS with 512MB memory in the $2,199.00 one now they have slower and weaker NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics on board video in the $1,199.00 $1,499.00 ones and NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 with 512MB memory in the $2,199.00.
The mac mini is still a ripoff $599.00 for 1 GB OF RAM? $50 more for 2gb and $150 more for 4gb?
# [Add $150.00] for a 2.26 cpu
120GB is still small.
The $799.00 mini has the same 2.0 cpu but 2gb of ram and a 320gb hd. It should have at least 128 - 256 vram that does not come from system but it does not.
For about $500 you can get a X2 7750 and 790gx board with 128 side port ram with 4gb of ram apple should of put more in to the mini.
Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (Score:5, Interesting)
This is exactly why I have not considered Mac as a viable option for me. The video card offerings are just not current enough. Why is it that everything else in the system is relatively high end and the video cards fall off the face of the planet on the low end or mid-range at best?
Until they either offer a base system with either NO VIDEO CARD (choose your own later) or something in the GTX 200 series, I can see no point in buying one. And what's up with the single HD4870, why not at least offer an X2? High end everything else and then crap for video card makes a nice workstation, but it's an insanely underpowered gaming rig. And at the price range of the Mac Pro, the only reasonable thing to compare it to is gaming class systems.
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Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (Score:4, Interesting)
High end everything else and then crap for video card makes a nice workstation, but it's an insanely underpowered gaming rig.
Everyone knows that, despite Apple's best efforts, Macs are a year behind PCs when it comes to major games anyway. I doubt anybody who's shopping for a gaming rig even gives Apple a second thought.
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Virtualization options still limited (Score:3, Insightful)
Prices are completely nuts (Score:5, Insightful)
The lower-end Quad Core system includes a 2.66Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor, 3GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, 18x double-layer Superdrive, and a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $2,499.
Since they don't come with a monitor, the profit margin on these things must be around 50%. Wow!
The hardware is typical mid-range stuff: decent hard disc, low-end GPU (renamed 9600GSO) and mid-high end CPU (renamed i7 920). Including a high quality motherboard and PSU, that would cost around 900 dollars at retail. That leaves a healthy 1,600 for the case, OS, software and peripherals.
Honest question: Who buys these things?
Re:Prices are completely nuts (Score:5, Funny)
After some customization, I can get a mac pro for $3,500 that is almost comparable (not quite) to the pc I just put together for $1,400.
If people want to throw a dollar sign in the word "Micro$oft", then we need to through a couple in with Apple: "A$$le"
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Re:Prices are completely nuts (Score:5, Funny)
If people want to throw a dollar sign in the word "Micro$oft", then we need to through a couple in with Apple: "A$$le"
I prefer Appl€. With the exchange rate, it's pretty much the same thing.
(It's "€".)
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Re:Prices are completely nuts (Score:5, Insightful)
People that want the Apple name in their house and dont understand the the the price they are paying is not worth the equipment they are getting.
...to you. As their market share is still increasing, and quickly, it's objectively true that their equipment is worth what people are paying. Whether you think that's fair or reasonable is irrelevant: the market has spoken.
Hold on what am I thinking this is Apple the all mighty and great the fans will flock to them and pay what ever they want.
I'm not a fanboy. I have a Mac only because a friend was practically giving one away. Still, when it up and dies, it will probably be replaced by another one.
I spend all day managing FreeBSD and OpenBSD servers from a heavily-hacked Linux desktop. I don't like the Mac because I'm not capable of anything else, or because I can't build my own (like the handmade home server sitting next to it), but because when I get home at night I just don't to mess around to get the thing working. I like doing normal-people things like making home movies of the kids, and playing with my iPod, and playing closed-source video games. If I can afford a Mac that lets me spend more of my free time doing the things I want to do, then it's my own business if I choose to buy one.
Looking down on others because you can't comprehend psychology and economics doesn't make you elite. It makes you an uneducated snot who's far more pretentious than the people you're looking down on.
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Re:Prices are completely nuts (Score:4, Informative)
You're looking at the wrong CPU/Mobo combo. The Mac Pro would have a 2-way Xeon processor in it (you pay a premium for 2-way and higher) and an appropriate motherboard with two sockets, 8 DIMM slots, etc. It still doesn't add up to too much, but you would need to slap something around a few hundred dollars on to that price tag (exact value unknown, the Nehalem Xeons aren't for sale yet).
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FireWire 400 is dead (Score:3, Insightful)
Looks like Apple has finally moved on from FireWire 400, as all the new products only have FireWire 800 ports. About time -- two different FireWire ports was starting to get annoying, although it does mean you'll need to get an adapter for old stuff.
What you can get for $2400 at newegg.com (Score:4, Informative)
* 2.66 GHZ Nehalem 920, overclocked to well over 3.2GHZ.
* ASUS p6t6 mobo with LOTS of features like SAS ports, RAID 0/1/5/10, at least 3 PCI-X x16 slots, eSATA connectors, etc.
* ATI 4870 with 1GB DDR5 RAM
* 12 GB RAM capable of 1600 Mhz (rather than 1066 avail on the Mac)
* 750 Watt Corsair PSU with gobs of connecting cables
* not one but FOUR WD 640 GB drive configured as RAID 0/1/5/10
* LG Bluray burner
* Acer 23" monitor
* Windows vista 64
* mouse, keyboard
Anyone know when Nehalem Xeon chips might be available for the rest of us? Then we'll compare apples to apples. Damn Mac tax!
Re:What you can get for $3000 at dell.com (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm pricing a Xeon Dell Precision workstation class machine on dell.ca, which is a better comparison to the Xeon based Workstation that is a Mac Pro, and I'm up to $2800 right now and guess what ? It has 2 GB DDR2 ECC ram vs the Mac's 3 GB DDR3 ECC (triple channel). It has an older, non-Nehalem Xeon processor, same ghz as the Mac but no 2 threads per core like the Mac. 1 SATA hard drive, 80 GB (WTF is this ?), same superdrive optical drive, etc...
I think Apple nailed their market just right. This isn't a cobbled together gaming PC, it's a Professional Workstation with a certain grade of hardware you're not getting in your cobbled together PC.
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Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (Score:4, Funny)
Well then, it's your lucky day. Those graphics cards are a generation old and mid-range at best.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why give them free pub... (Score:4, Insightful)
Last I saw Apple is a tech company... they just released a ton of new products. How is this not applicable? I guess when Google released their single cellphone, or Microsoft releases a new line of Zune's, that would also not be worthy for technical people?
If you don't like stories on Apple, you can, you know, set your preferences to block it.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You do for most Dell and Lenovo products.
Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (Score:5, Funny)
Heck, this could probably handle my Time Machine backups for the other macs in the house while serving 1080p.
I don't think you'd want to use a computer with only a 120 or 360 GB HD for serving video & Time Machine backups...
Someone should really create a port that would allow expansion via external storage devices. That would be the bee's knees.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I walked into a Mercedes dealer today when I realized that, as a contractor, what I need is a truck and not a car.
As Mac user *I* don't need a laptop without an optical drive, which is why didn't buy the Air.
Oh, and one more thing, I'm tired of the "one button" crap. It's just old. The fact that you neanderthals are still using crappy plastic buttons rather than gestures and other multitouch goodies isn't my fault. I use an external mouse when I have the room, but when using a touch pad, sorry, Apple is by
Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (Score:5, Funny)
The fact that you neanderthals are still using crappy plastic buttons rather than gestures and other multitouch goodies isn't my fault.
Couldn't agree more. Gestures are where it's at. For example, if I want to launch Safari, I simply gesture like I'm lovingly fingering another man's anus and up it pops. One hundred percent reliable. My Mac understands.
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Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (Score:5, Funny)
Hahaha.
Okay. Okay.
Touché sir.
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Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (Score:5, Informative)
With the MacBook Air $2499:
And complain that the MacBook Air is more expensive because it is designed for ultralightweight applications yet has a faster bus, more memory, better graphics, etc. Apples to oranges.
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Re:I've been a Mac fan since my Apple ][+, HOWEVER (Score:5, Insightful)
* I live in a multi-computer home environment. I've got two Windows machines, an Ubuntu machine, a MythTV, and random stuff. The Mac works great *when you do everything the OSX way*. However, in a mixed environment, it doesn't. I'm thinking of movies, pictures, address book, and things like that.
This depends a lot in my experience based upon how you interoperate. OS X is very good at using open standards and file formats provided you pick decent software to run on top of it. It is less good at interoperating with Windows proprietary formats and protocols and if your servers or Windows machines are using them and you're set on them, Linux is often better at reverse engineered solutions. Example, if you standardized on Windows Media formats, OS X will play them, but not as well as Windows or even Linux. If you picked MP3, MP4, OGG, and the like, OS X is much better than Windows at interoperating.
I bought my iMac G5 20" ALS, and it was a great machine for about 40 months. Then, it failed.
Your anecdote certainly shows reason to be annoyed, but what could Apple the vendor do to prevent this? Extend their warranties to four years and then people complain when machines fail a month after that. Would you like more reliable hardware? Of course, we all always want more reliable hardware, but Apple already is the top rated among major vendors by consumer reports and other independent reviewers. Some people will always have hardware fail regardless. You're that person. And Apple is already taking flack for using more expensive and reliable components. Just look at all the comments here about how expensive Apple is compared not to the other top rated vendors, but ones with very poor reliability numbers. People don't look at reliability when buying.
I hate backing up /home/username.
Umm, you've heard of Time machine, right? You can apply it only to selected parts of your filesystem and it does versioning more smoothly and easily than almost anything. Or, use one of many third party backup solutions that handles them intelligently.
* The hardware *is* expensive. And, in my experience, very proprietary to the point where a failure totals a machine. My x86 tower is nicely generic.
Apple has custom motherboards, but other than that, everything is pretty much off the shelf. What are you looking to replace? I don't see how it is any harder than anything else (with the exception of the motherboard which you have to buy from Apple).
* OSX isn't perfect. Neither is XP/Vista/Ubuntu.
I don't really see how this is a challenge for Apple. You want them to be perfect? Not going to happen.
Okay, I don't quite know what my rant is. I'm just in a small minority of "Mac Fanboy for ages, switching to Windows and living just fine."
Hey, use what you like and what works for you. I use OS X, Linux, and Windows daily. On my laptop Linux and Windows live in VMs and OS X gets the most love because OS X handles migrations the best and because running OS X in a VM on top of Linux or Windows gives me more headaches. People get way to hung up an emotional about these things.
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