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Grey Lines Mar MacBook Air Displays

Posted by kdawson on Fri Dec 05, 2008 08:10 AM
from the pin-stripes-are-vertical dept.
adamengst writes "Numerous users have been complaining about grey lines that muddy the crispness of the displays of the recently updated MacBook Air. Doug McLean explains the problem in TidBITS, along with what Apple appears to be doing about it."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 05 2008, @08:16AM (#26001745)

    What, is this an audiophile forum now? I can only assume the lines fluff up the felty softness too.

    • by Lumpy (12016) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:32AM (#26001859) Homepage

      The problem is that these users are not conditioning their laptop displays before use. It's well known you need to play a very diverse video before any actual use so that the screen is "exercised" and ready for use. they get stiff after sitting off for a while.

      Also using directional USB cables as well as cleaning the keyboard with a gold based cleaning solution will help enhance the crispness of the display.

      • by LMacG (118321) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:39AM (#26001917) Journal

        Also, marking around the edge of the display with a green felt-tip pen will keep all the pixels in proper alignment.

      • by AdamPee (1243018) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:47AM (#26001979)
        You can't start out with too diverse video, your computer could pull a driver. Instead, start off gently, something like a screensaver, and move on to something a little more rigorous as it warms up.
        • by Lumpy (12016) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:57AM (#26002067) Homepage

          Gold is passe now.

          Platinum coated Low Oxygen titanium with iridium tips are what is needed now.

          Also be sure that your Ethernet cables are of quality. http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp# [denon.com] is the only cable that is worthwhile for any performance computing.

          using a lesser cable will cause muddyness.

          • by Registered Coward v2 (447531) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:45AM (#26002565)

            Gold is passe now.

            Platinum coated Low Oxygen titanium with iridium tips are what is needed now.

            Also be sure that your Ethernet cables are of quality. http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp# [denon.com] is the only cable that is worthwhile for any performance computing.

            using a lesser cable will cause muddyness.

            Agreed. It is also very important to ensure you use teh uni-directional Ethernet cable properly. It uses a special extruding and annealing process to line up all the electronic data pipes properly so that you get maximum data throughput in the download direction while limiting upstream traffic within ISP limits. If you install it backwards, as one of my cow orkers did, you'll severely limit your connection speeds since you are now throttling the download speed. His connection went from 2400 baud dialup speeds to past T1 after I simply reversed the cable. Don't bother to buy any of the special oxygen blocking gels that people tout for covering the connectors to prevent corrosion and maximize conductivity. They actually are harmful - you need a little bi-metallic corrosion between the connectors to ensure a nice, tight electrical bond; that's why your speeds go up after you've warmed up the cable and let it break in. I never disconnect my Ethernet cable from my MacBook for that very reason. I always disconnect at my router and carefully wrap the cable around my MacBook for travel. I hope this helps. HAND.

            • by theaveng (1243528) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:30AM (#26002425)

              Having a high-quality cable made sense in the days of Analog audio, because a poor-quality cable could distort the sound, but in this new era of Digital audio (1's and 0's) there's no longer any need. "The AK-DL1 will bring out all the nuances in digital audio reproduction" is just nonsense. The nuances come from the computer DAC chip's ability to turn 1's and 0's into sound, and that's where audiophiles should spend their money, not on a $500 gold-plated cable.

              Fools and their money are easily parted.

              • by _Sprocket_ (42527) on Friday December 05 2008, @10:44AM (#26003237)

                The nuances come from the computer DAC chip's ability to turn 1's and 0's into sound, and that's where audiophiles should spend their money, not on a $500 gold-plated cable.

                I believe you missed this particularly helpful feature:

                Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer.

                Your 1's and 0's aren't getting anywhere without some directional markings to let them know which way they're going. Of course, Denon made a mistake by showing the directional marking (a double-sided arrow) in their product picture. Now all manner of hardware hackers will be simply using a magic marker to apply this wonderful feature to their bargain-basement cables. It won't work quite as well as the professional screen-printed version Denon provides. But then that level of quality is beyond the hardware hacker.

                  • by Mister Whirly (964219) on Friday December 05 2008, @01:25PM (#26005319) Homepage
                    Really? A salesperson who works on commission recommended you buy the much more expensive product rather than the cheap one? Gadzooks! That sounds almost *gasp* unethical! And from a salesman! They are usually the bastion of ethics and morals.

                    I like how at Best Buy the salespeople will tell you "We don't get commission." But I can guarantee you they get a bonus for selling the bogus "product protection service" crap. I have never seen more aggressive techniques to get you to buy the coverage. One time I was buying a $20 product, and was asked if I wanted to buy "protection" for it. Just for laughs I asked how much it would be. "$19.99 for 2 years" was the answer. I laughed in his face and told him if it broke anytime in the next 2 years, i would just come back and buy a brand new one for the same price, without the hassle of having to return the item and wait for them to decide to send me a new one. Or if in broke in 3-4 years, I would have already spent $40 on it and would have to spend another $20 to replace it. Now which plan sounds better?
        • by elrous0 (869638) * on Friday December 05 2008, @09:13AM (#26002253)
          My wife flipped out and left me when I bought those instead of paying the mortgage last month. Too bad for her that she's not here to enjoy the cleanest USB signal I've ever seen!
    • HP came out with a new LCD display and (also in notebook form) that displays billions of colors.

      This beats even apples cinelerra displays:
      http://www.macobserver.com/review/2008/06/17.1.shtml [macobserver.com]

      HP press release (on the notebook):
      http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2008/080811xa.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN [hp.com]

      Many people don't know about it yet but it appears to be making waves..

      Possibly apple is getting to comfortable with it's new marketshare.

      Personally I will be looking at the displays as an alternative, when

  • by gapagos (1264716) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:22AM (#26001787) Homepage

    Step 2: Start another ad with an undergrad making fun of his computer science professor.

      • Wow, you totally got this one wrong. You missed the very vital step (see below)

        Step 1: Make expensive laptops with a shitty display.
        Step 2: Start another ad with an undergrad making fun of his computer science professor.
        Step 3: ????
        Step 4: Profit!
  • No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mad Merlin (837387) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:32AM (#26001863) Homepage

    LCD panel quality in general has been on the slide for a couple years now. Pretty much every LCD sold today has a trashy TN panel (6-bit colour and awful viewing angles), instead of mostly just the cheap ones like a couple years ago.

    • Re:No surprise (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TheRaven64 (641858) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:05AM (#26002161) Homepage Journal
      A little while back the HD in my MacBook Pro died (shortly after completing the first full backup I'd done in almost a year, which was pretty incredible timing). While it was off being repaired, I switched back to my old PowerBook. The resolution of the screen was slightly lower, but the difference was amazing. With the PB I have massive viewing angles - unless I'm off at such a wide angle that the screen is almost a sliver, the image is still clear. With the MBP it starts to go as soon as I'm not flat-on to the display. You'd have thought that the 'pro' lines would still have decent technology, but maybe no one's making it anymore (and the newer ones have those horrible glossy screens, so I won't be getting one of them). If it wasn't for the fact that LaTeX documents that build in 10 seconds on the MBP take over a minute on the PowerBook, I'd be tempted to switch back to it.
  • I for one, think that a few grey lines make a display look distinguished.
  • by JoeMerchant (803320) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:45AM (#26001965)
    Only tangentially related:

    I've had an intermittent graphics card problem with an '06 MacBookPro for a while now... it leads to occasional system freeze, maybe once a day, sometimes recently a lot more. One warning that a freeze may be imminent is the appearance of thin horizontal light blue lines during what appear to be block-copys of graphics (like scrolling a browser page) - freezes often come during intense operations like a Genie style minimize, but even turning all these off, the freezes still come. There are scattered [macrumors.com] reports of similar problems, mostly when new, and my experience tracks with these (more frequent when external monitor is connected, etc.)

    Bottom line - I didn't pay the 15% AppleCare tax, so I'm SOL in terms of support from Apple, they haven't admitted to anything systemic, though it obviously is at least somewhat reproduceable. What I'd really like them to do is publish a kind of tech bulletin telling how to correct the problem if you have it, but I suppose that might take business away from their Genius bars (nearest one being 2 hours drive from here.)

    If they wanted a reputation as a truly awesome company, they would develop and release that kind of info instead of suppressing it to affect the (false, and repugnant) air of perfection.

    • The answer is to buy a new MacBook like a good consumer. Ask Steve! [today.com] He can display your captured and tormented soul perfectly on the new MacBook Air. If you can't, you just need more Apple products and probably a tattoo.

      I'm trying to imagine what a Google laptop would look like. Tasteful understated text ads subliminally woven into the display, probably. Free but doesn't have a hard disk.

    • by RMH101 (636144) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:04AM (#26002143)
      Woah there. Want the good news or the bad news? Bad news: if you've got an Nvidia GPU, your MBP's fvcked. The GPU's almost certainly one of the very, very large number Nvidia managed to screw up. The ball array soldering is faulty, and it isn't fixable.

      Good news: Apple have acknowledged this as an issue and are fixing out of warranty. See http://apcmag.com/apple_acknowledges_macbook_pro_graphics_glitch_offers_fix.htm [apcmag.com] for details.

      Mine's in the faulty date of manufacture range so I'm just waiting to get hit with it too. Ric

      • Double bummer:

        First: the free repair offer only extended for 2 years from original purchase, and I find out about it here today, 30 months after original purchase, when I have been having the problem for the last 12 months (though, actually, only really badly for the last 6 months.)

        Second: I have the ATY,RadeonX1600 graphics.

        No more stress over when to send the thing in for repair, though. I'm just muddling through using the MBP less and less while a $400 Dell-Vista box picks up the things it can't do, l

        • by lysergic.acid (845423) on Friday December 05 2008, @12:40PM (#26004711) Homepage

          who the hell are you people who are constantly having hardware issues (and just put up with it)?

          if my video card or sound card breaks, and there's no way to fix it, i replace it. if my system is acting strange and affecting my productivity, i troubleshoot the problem and resolve the issue, or reformat and do a fresh install when necessary. there's no reason to put up with a system that is constantly crashing or that "goes black once a week." it's not a problem with technology; it's a problem of, either having the incredibly bad luck of consistently buying defective hardware, or simply being too undiscerning when shopping for a computer.

          honestly, this idea that computers can never work properly for long periods of time is incredibly misguided. in my experience the only people who resign themselves to a fate of having a computer that never functions properly are generally people who aren't very computer savvy. otherwise, it shouldn't take more than 2-3 weeks to troubleshoot a problem and get it resolved one way or another. and you shouldn't be having computer problems all the time.

          heck, even the computers i have to fix at work usually stay fixed for at least 3-4 months. and only very rarely do hardware problems crop up (maybe once every 1~2 years one of the 5 computers in the office will need something replaced). and we don't even get manufacturer warranties. honestly, there's no reason to settle for a less than fully functional system. after all, you paid good money for it. so fix it yourself, or find someone who can.

  • by MemoryDragon (544441) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:48AM (#26001991)

    DonÂt get me wrong die macbook air has so many things done right, but I get the feeling that it was released prematurely. I am not sure how it is with the current ones.
    But I have one of the first generation, and you cannot run more than 10 minutes on 60% processor load after then the speed drops significantly due to excessive heat.

    Which means since I mostly use ot for development I reach this stage after a few hours of work.
    I called apple about this, and the support seemed to be rather dumb regarding this issue! Searching on the net revealed that others have the same problem. I assume this is a broken by design issue, since the heathing itself might be a problem in this formfactor.

    Well maybe this problem is resolved with the current generation but seeing that they now have another problem with the otherwise excellent display.

    Well to sum it up, if they aluminium macbooks would have been out back then I would have opted for a macbook instead of the air, but for now I live witht it and a handful of hacks installed to make the heating/venting issues more bearable!

    • Which means since I mostly use ot for development I reach this stage after a few hours of work.

      You see, that's what I don't get. No offense, but was the Air really the best machine for development?

      I thought it was a neat little laptop, but I avoided it specifically because of my machine needs: a programmer's rig.

      Now if I wanted a small laptop that I carried around with me to do minor things then I might consider it as it looks like it might travel better, but it would be a secondary machine to my coding ri

    • by mario_grgic (515333) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:08AM (#26002183)

      The new aluminum Macbook is a better Macbook Air. Seriously, it is almost as sturdy, it has DVD burner, better CPU, more and easily accessible ports, and stereo speakers (although totally useless on both models).

      It's not as light, but it's not much heavier either.

      On the other hand, my Macbook has no heat issues, it's actually amazingly cool for normal use.

    • by TheRaven64 (641858) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:12AM (#26002237) Homepage Journal
      Google for 'fan control'. I had a fan control utility for my PowerBook that some apple techs accidentally left on the machine after a repair, which let me manually activate the fans, and there's a nicer one for Intel machines that lets you define the fan speed to temperature relation. When the MacBook Pros were released these values were wrong. The fans would not kick in early enough and the machine would become unstable. Tweaking them a bit made the machine a bit louder and shortened the battery life slightly, but stopped it crashing (the CPU was fine, but the memory chips got too hot). A subsequent update fixed the problem and I don't have the fan control or temperature monitor utilities installed anymore.
  • Dithering (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AC-x (735297) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:49AM (#26002007)

    The picture [tidbits.com] posted of the problem looks like the dithering's gone wrong and it's just showing lines rather then the usual checkerboard pattern

  • by rockout (1039072) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:52AM (#26002031)
    In my statistical study of one sample unit (mine), I've had my eye on the display since April, and I have no complaints with it.

    However, I do notice that it takes longer to find wireless networks than my old PowerBook used to. Not sure why this is.
  • by decalod85 (1214532) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:54AM (#26002043)
    My Mac SE from 1988 had all grey lines! You kids and your 'color' monitors...
  • by Tastecicles (1153671) on Friday December 05 2008, @08:55AM (#26002053)

    ...considering I now use LCD wherever a visual display unit is required, I'm very fussy about the flaws I allow. I sent some Samsung panels back and had them replaced because two of them had ghost patches. One had a bug (a real bug!) sandwiched in between the LCD layer and the backplane. Yet another had a partially detached backplane (which resulted in uneven lighting). No good to me at all. I can deal with one or two hot or dead pixels, unless it's on a panel I use to do serious work on (read: graphics-intensive stuff) where the panel has to be pixel perfect and the backlight has to be even and of the right colour temperature. As for Apple's not very new problems: yes, their panel quality has suffered a huge amount over the years. I have a G3 Lombard with a perfect panel (no hot/dead pixels and the light is even), and a G4 iBook with a panel which has dark corners and four hot pixels right in the middle of the panel. Not hugely offputting unless I try and watch a DVD... and now the Airs have panel problems? Hardly surprising... tho don't try and pick one up by the top edge of the screen, I heard of a guy who couldn't wait to get home from the Apple dealer over here and took his MBA out of the box as he left the shop... snapped the notebook in half. ...sort of put me off from buying one...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 05 2008, @09:00AM (#26002107)

    The article is in German and not freely available online, so I'll summarize it: The problem is in the display electronics. To prevent the liquid crystals from polarizing themselves (sort of a burn in effect), the polarity of the voltage is reversed after each frame. If the center voltage is not exactly between the low and high voltage, then the pixel is brighter or darker, depending on the current polarity of the control voltage. The display drives the lines with alternating polarity, so this deviation causes an alternating pattern of slightly darker and slightly lighter lines.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It appears to be a calibration issue. Here is press release about a chip which obviates manual calibration: http://www.electronicspecifier.com/Industry-News/VCom-calibrator-reduces-manufacturing-costs-in-TFTLCDs.asp [electronicspecifier.com]

      • That sounds like a likely possibility. Seems like if it's a calibration issue, you wouldn't have to replace the display, but you would have to recalibrate it. In the FTA, they suggest that:

        Theories about the lines are scant, but the main ones attribute them to the new anti-glare coating or the new Nvidia graphic chips. Many users seem suspicious, though hopeful, that a firmware update will resolve the problem.

        The anti-glare coating idea is bollocks I think, because if it's a coating it would wear out

  • by Animaether (411575) on Friday December 05 2008, @09:04AM (#26002149) Journal

    submitted by somebody at a blog, a vague summary about a 'story' at... that same blog!
    Maybe it's not a blog - sure reads like one.

    "Numerous users have been complaining about grey lines that muddy the crispness of the displays of the recently updated MacBook Air."
    That line in the summary -is- the 'story'.

    "Doug McLean explains the problem in [the advertised blog]"
    No he doesn't. He just recaps what the supposed problem would be in some detail with an example image. Kudos for the image, but there's no explanation of the problem - what causes it, why it's only apparently in late 2008 models, etc. etc. you know.. explanation - whatsoever. There's wild guessing as to what's causing it...
    "Theories about the lines are scant, but the main ones attribute them to the new anti-glare coating or the new Nvidia graphic chips. Many users seem suspicious, though hopeful, that a firmware update will resolve the problem."
    But that alone should make you quirk an eyebrow... I do hope those 'many users' are on the side of 'the new Nvidia graphic chips [are the cause]", as I've got no hope whatsoever for those who think that a firmware update would fix an anti-glare coating.

    "along with what Apple appears to be doing about it."
    Well I guess including that information in the summary would mean even less people would click on the 'story', but the answer is "we don't know". As usual, with Apple, I know, but from the 'story'...
    1. "Apple has issued no official statement on the matter"
    2. "we hope Apple [...] takes [...] steps to resolve it"
    i.e. "we don't know what Apple appears to be doing about it"

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      If you click on the pic, a larger version comes up and you can see the lines on that one.
    • Re:Suprise... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by tsa (15680) on Friday December 05 2008, @11:10AM (#26003533) Homepage

      I agree. My MacBook Pro has a really crappy display for such an expensive laptop IMO. From whichever angle I look at it, I never see the whole screen in the same brightness.