Toxic Fumes From Mac Pros?

Fanboi Killa writes "Apple is investigating damning claims, published in a leading French newspaper, that its computers emit a toxic odor containing chemicals including the cancer-causing benzene. Apple has not denied the accusations. Its spokesman, Bill Evans, told Macworld the company had not found any evidence to support the claim but Apple would continue to investigate. Posts on Apple's own discussion boards suggest the Mac maker knew about potentially toxic odors being linked to its computers as early as December last year."

Don't worry

[Stele (9443)]

It's just the smell of smug.

Re:Don't worry

[wisty (1335733)]

Microsoft's response to "Mac vs PC" just got a hell of a lot sicker.

Re:Don't worry

[The Moof (859402)]

"Hi, I'm a PC, and I won't murder you..."

No, it was me. Sorry

[by Anonymous Coward]

I was in the Apple store when I was in Paris recently, and I let an SBD rip.

Re:Don't worry

[MightyYar (622222)]

It's just the smell of smug.

God help us all if someone gets an Apple computer anywhere near a Prius.

Re:Don't worry

[Mister Whirly (964219)]

Go out and kill it now. Otherwise it will be liberating gay whales for Christ with Don Henley and Bono by lunch time.

Re:Don't worry

[Hal_Porter (817932)]

There is a Prius in our parking lot with an "EARTH" sticker and an Apple logo stuck on the back.

Stick a McCain / Palin bumper sticker on it.

Re:Don't worry

[treeves (963993)]

What, are you disappointed that the world didn't end yet due to the delay in the LHC ramping up? You do realize that what you've proposed is akin to a huge matter/anti-matter annihilation.

Re:Don't worry

[luton (1277998)]

What I didn't realise was that Apple was into the Cloud Computing model

Re:Don't worry

[Hairy Heron (1296923)]

In an unrelated story, recent studies have shown that French bashing was old and stale 7 years ago.

Not MacBooks

[adamwright (536224)]

If there's any truth to it, then I'm fairly sure this only applies to MacPros (see http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2319 [zdnet.com]).

Re:Not MacBooks

[orclevegam (940336)]

He didn't mean the MacBookPro (MBP), he meant Mac Pro, you know, the big desktop systems, one of these [apple.com].

Seems there might be something to the report, but it's too early to say for sure. If it's correct then the problem is most likely related to either a protective coating applied to the motherboard, or possible some plastic pieces on the inside of the case (my money would be on the coating though).

So, to re-iterate, this isn't talking about any of the laptops, this is just the desktops, and even then not any of the iMacs (at least only Mac Pros have reported this problem).

Yes on MacBook Pros

[bill_mcgonigle (4333)]

He didn't mean the MacBookPro (MBP), he meant Mac Pro, you know, the big desktop systems, one of these [apple.com].

The MacBook Pro's had an awful toxic stink problem as of November 2006. I got one and for a month breathed nasty plastic-burn smell that really got in my mucus membranes in my nose - the only other time being when I've ridden on coal-fired locomotives.

I finally figured out that running SETI@Home for a week got the machine so hot that all of the badness burned off. So, I assume it was somethin

Re:

[TheRaven64 (641858)]

and the Ext2 drivers from SourceForge also made it unstable

There are lots of reasons why OS X can be unstable (ATi drivers, in particular), but third-party kernel modules are pretty much top of the list. Mine stopped crashing after uninstalling the Parallels kernel modules - perhaps you should try checking kextstat and unloading anything that isn't com.apple.*.

Only thing left on it that I can pinpoint for problems besides the Bluetooth is VMWare Fusion - whenever one of the VMs locks up (75% of uses), I have to hit the power button to make the machine restart.

Yup, sounds like a badly-written third-party kernel module. Pretty much any OS will be unstable if you run dodgy third-party code in kernelspace. The Parallels devs didn't bother reading the Intel docs for

Mac Pro not MacBooks!

[tarkin (34045)]

The article (and 'internets' hype) cleary state the problematic machines to be the Mac Pro (manufactured pre 2008)

Denied it? You bet.

[HEbGb (6544)]

Saying "Apple has not denied the allegations" is sensationalistic, and doesn't belong in the summary. They "found no evidence", which, logically, is as strong a denial as can possibly be made.

Re:Denied it? You bet.

[gunnk (463227)]

Read the article -- the whole thing is sensational.

Even if the Greenpeace lab did detect chemicals with known health risks you still need to know the concentrations.

You can get a all sorts of poisonous fumes coming off of anything with silicon caulk -- like aquariums -- especially when they get warm. Good stuff like toluene and ethylbenzene -- just not in concentrations that can actually harm you.

I'm NOT trying to claim there is no problem. I'm just saying that there is nothing from the article to support that there IS a problem either -- just some anecdotes and a bit of scientifically illiterate journalism.

With the strong smells coming off some machines, it is worth running a few tests to make sure that whatever is being emitted is not coming off at dangerous concentrations. In the meantime, though, not much to see here.

Re:Denied it? You bet.

[orclevegam (940336)]

I seem to recall Greenpeace going after Apple in the past as well. Haven't they been trying to slam Apple for not being ecologically friendly for years now? Not saying there isn't a problem, just saying Greenpeace isn't exactly a neutral party. Maybe one of these problem systems should be sent off to a lab that really is neutral and can say for sure whether there's a problem or not.

Re:

[Free the Cowards (1280296)]

Not to mention that the tests were run by Greenpeace, and they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. In conclusion, this is a stupid story written by stupid people and the massive attention it has received in the press just goes to prove that there are a lot of stupid people out there.

Re:Denied it? You bet.

[Sancho (17056)]

It looks like they corrected that.

You know, for people who are so unwilling to let us edit or delete our own posts, they sure are willing to make corrections to their stories without noting that there even was one.

From the Slashdot FAQ:

Will you delete my comment?

No. We believe that discussions in Slashdot are like discussions in real life- you can't change what you say, you only can attempt to clarify by saying more. In other words, you can't delete a comment that you've posted, you only can post a reply to yourself and attempt to clarify what you've said.

In short, you should think twice before you click that 'Submit' button because once you click it, we aren't going to let you Undo it.

Think twice, indeed.

Where and how well did they look?

[Animaether (411575)]

``They "found no evidence", which, logically, is as strong a denial as can possibly be made.``

No, as strong a denial as can possibly be made is "That is incorrect. It is not true. Our products do not emit the fumes referred to."

All "found no evidence" means that where they looked, using their methods, they couldn't find the fumes.

I'm not saying they -didn't- launch a thorough investigation, but there's nothing in particular to indicate that they did, either. Certainly there's people with complaints.. unless they're all making things up, I suspect that their "[continued] investigation" will dig up some particular packaging material or electronics supplier that happened to have a bad batch.

Re:Where and how well did they look?

[Mendenhall (32321)]

Actually 'found no evidence' is the strongest possible scientifically justifiable statement.

You cannot ever prove that the machines do not, and have never, emitted such fumes, unless you have monitored each and every computer continuously with a perfectly sensitive detector (which is not possible to build...).

Re:

[Animaether (411575)]

Both statements are true. "found no evidence" isn't the strongest possible denial, while it -is- still the strongest scientifically justifiable statement. The problem with the former is that you can say it all you want, but you can't ever be 100% sure of it - as you pointed out. The 'problem' with the latter is that we don't know what their scientific justifications are.. or even whether they were scientific. If the investigation was asking a major client if any of their users complained of smells or he

Re:

[Geoffrey.landis (926948)]

Exactly. That's the problem in the internet age; an rumor comes up and spreads like lightning. The correct thing to do would be to investigate carefully and thoroughly, but doing that just means that the rumor mongers add "Apple has not denied the accusations!" to the rumor, as if "not denying" somehow substantiates the rumor.

The problem is, actually doing it right-- investigating the rumor with an open mind-- takes time. So they're really in a no-win situation.

Duh

[faloi (738831)]

I thought we'd known that Apples give off ethylene forever. What's one more gas?

Re:

[cyfer2000 (548592)]

Carbon dioxide and maybe some benzene and some other aromatic stuff.

Amazing Discovery

[archen (447353)]

Source of the reality distortion field revealed!

further studies

[RemoWilliams84 (1348761)]

Further studies show that the fumes also cause a false sense of self worth and belonging as well as an elitist attitude.

Um...

[bytethese (1372715)]

Mac PROS. I didn't see anything about MacBOOKS... Wow, the flurry of misinformation regarding Apple products the past few days is staggering!

Wait...

[whisper_jeff (680366)]

The smell has been variously described as "new car smell", "musty", "rotting carpet" and even cannabis.

So, computer geeks smelled something musty, rotting, or something similar to pot. Uh, that's nothing new. They probably just need to clean up their rooms and smoke outside.

Re:Wait...

[dreamchaser (49529)]

Maybe Mom won't let them smoke outside, you insensitive clod, so they are stuck in the basement. Besides, that awful burning thing in the sky is out there. I forget what they call it but it's fucking scary.

Re:Wait...

[R2.0 (532027)]

As God is my witness I went to wake up my 8 year old son and he wasn't cooperating, so I turned on the light and pulled the covers off him. "The Light! It burns ussss!" was his response.

No more Rings Trilogy before bedtime.

odor != toxic, environmentalism != rational

[Gothmolly (148874)]

So because some Frenchman smelled something funny, now Apple has to defend against "toxic fumes" ?

Congratulations, plastic is dirty

[toQDuj (806112)]

Wow, what a discovery...

Plastic is amongst the "dirtiest" compounds in manufacturing. They commonly contain plasticisers, colorants, residual monomers, oligomers and solvents, all of whom can, and most likely will evaporate. Depending on the choice of plastic, this is much, little, odourless or smelly.

It looks like only the mention of Apple Mac these days will get your news posted..

B.

Re:

[Sockatume (732728)]

It's Greenpeace. Trying to get half-assed scare stories into the press by associating themselves with major brands is their whole purpose these days. Heaven forbid that they actually hook up with some real environmentalists and get themselves noticed on the basis of the science.

Denying the Accusations?

[Llywelyn (531070)]

Apple has not denied the accusations. Its spokesman, Bill Evans, told Macworld the company had not found any evidence to support the claim but Apple would continue to investigate

Would the author of the summary prefer if Apple denied the allegations without investigating the matter?

An apple a day keeps the doctor away?

[Loibisch (964797)]

Guess that one was misleading.

Journalistic Integrity

[by Anonymous Coward]

""My entire room smells bad and I have had to resort to a few air fresheners just to be able to work on it," one report read."

"I recently have had a bird die 'mysteriously' which was caged near my MacPro which has had the terrible smell for months. The vet said it was likely he inhaled something toxic!!!"

Both of those "quotes" or "reports" are pulled from the Apple forum. With no follow-up, no real names, and no fact checking. I guess it's good that they did in fact link to the posts... I'm sad to see Slashdot posting this article.

Re:Journalistic Integrity

[Theaetetus (590071)]

""My entire room smells bad and I have had to resort to a few air fresheners just to be able to work on it," one report read."

"I recently have had a bird die 'mysteriously' which was caged near my MacPro which has had the terrible smell for months. The vet said it was likely he inhaled something toxic!!!"

Bearing in mind that this is Greenpeace, I'd be more inclined to suspect unwashed hippie stink.

Unusual manufacture, or sensitive users?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518)]

I wonder if there is some particular manufacturing issue with certain mac pros, or are users primed to be unusually sensitive about their experience with expensive hardware? I ask because there doesn't seem to be anything unusual about the mac pro. Aluminum case, not much outgassing there, industry standard drives, RAM, chipset, chips, nothing there that isn't in 10s of millions of boring beige boxes. All the specific components, motherboard, PSU, etc. are presumably sourced from the same OEMs that manufacture for everybody else.

I can imagine that people would be more apt to notice galling details in a machine they paid over 2000 for, but I am hard pressed to believe that the mac pro is actually emitting any chemicals that numerous other machines wouldn't also be. PCB manufacturing isn't all puppies and roses, and everybody's PCBs are manufactured in essentially the same way.

Almost all plastics off-gas to some extent

[elrous0 (869638)]

Just about any polymer used in a modern consumer good is going to off-gas chemicals to SOME extent, over time (it's probably even worse with "environmentally friendly" plastics meant to more quickly degrade over time). Singling out Apple is this regard is just petty. I'm sure you could find just as much in any computer made by a French company (not that France is ever going to complain about THAT, though).

Ratio

[g0bshiTe (596213)]

I wonder what the ratio is of Mac Pro users that eat Taco Bell regularly is.

There could be a link.

The dose is the poison

[Sockatume (732728)]

That's all. Soap-box science is fond of the "X contains Y, Y causes Z!" without considering the exposure, which is the absolute be-all and end-all of toxicology. As a rule of thumb, the air around you contains non-zero amounts of anything you claim to mention. Your computer mouse could quite possibly have a whole molecule of deadly hydrogen fluoride on it. This will not kill you.

100 spin points to Greenpeace for changing VOC from "volatile organic compound" to "volatile organic contaminant", by the way. It's nice to know that I can order in 99% pure bottles of "contaminant" from Sigma, or indeed that my air freshener is busily filling my surroundings with "contaminants".

Mind control!

[David Gerard (12369)]

Apple goods are infused with narcotic addictive fumes [today.com], so you'll KEEP ON BUYING THEM. And you can't complain under the NDA. Because Apple is EVIL.

Oh Sweet Sweet Apple

[flappinbooger (574405)]

Sweet Sweet Stylish and Trendy Death, how soft is your grip..... [sigh]

Like, duh, dude

[Cid Highwind (9258)]

What did you think that "new computer smell" is? Volatile organic chemicals, including benzene!

Once again we see that by mentioning Apple by name (especially in an environmental story) can magically make a pointless story into front page news...

iPhume

[Mateo13 (1250522)]

It's just their newest product: The iPhume

Re:Toxic odor???

[RMH101 (636144)]

What do you think an odour is? Magic smell-waves? It's particles of the smelly item in question landing in the receptors in your nose.

Re:

[larry bagina (561269)]

You want to know how an odor can be toxic? Try taking a road trip with Cowboy "It wasn't me" Neal.

Re:erm... vista lcd?

[Kugrian (886993)]

Am I the only one that noticed that in the article, the screen of the machine is showing a Vista interface?

The bad smell only occurs when using Vista on a Mac. OS X produces the stench of rainbows, roses and women farts.