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New iPhone Apps Help Drivers Beat Speed Traps
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sun Nov 23, 2008 01:08 PM
from the ifuzzbuster dept.
from the ifuzzbuster dept.
Ponca City, We love you writes "Two mobile applications, NMobile and Trapster, are providing drivers with up-to-date maps of speed-enforcement zones with live police traps, speed cameras or red-light cameras. Each application pulls up a map pinpointing the locations of speed traps within driving distance and an audio alert will sound as vehicles approach an area tagged as harboring a speed trap. Both applications rely on the wisdom of the crowds for their data with users reporting camera-rigged stop lights and areas heavily populated with radar-toting police officers via the iPhone or their web-based application, creating the ultimate speed trap repository available to you when you need it most — while you're driving. To thwart false alarms and eliminate inaccuracies, Trapster enlists its community of nearly 200,000 members to rank speed traps on their accuracy. NMobile founder Shannon Atkinson declined to provide detailed data, though he did estimate that 'well over 1,000' users had downloaded the application since it became available last week. The company insists they've received only positive feedback from law enforcement officials and police officers regarding their products. 'If the application gets people to slow down, I think it's generally considered to be a good thing,' said Atkinson."
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Illegal Tool (Score:5, Funny)
When tools are banned.. oh, nevermind...
Too Many Traps (Score:5, Insightful)
But maybe it will result in some speeders slowing down all the time.
Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Funny)
1. Teflon coat a slope
2. Lower speed limit on said slope
3. Speed camera at the bottom
4. Profit!
Parent
Re:Too Many Traps (Score:4, Informative)
You joke, but many Southern (USA) small towns are full of things like this. The speed limit may be 70 on a highway, but as it enters one of these towns it will drop suddenly to 30 or 35, often around a curve with little warning.
The small-town cops collect money from travelers but don't ticket locals. It really is a sort of highway robbery.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:4, Insightful)
Not that I support the tactics, but you should be driving so that you are prepared for anything around the next corner, be it a speed limit drop or a mad cow.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Insightful)
While I agree that you should be prepared for anything that may be obstructing the roadway, that white sign halfway hidden behind a bush as you turn a corner is exactly where your attention should NOT be. If you're having to look away from your vehicles path of travel while making a turn and then rapidly decelerate, you're being dangerously distracted from the much more important task of making sure you're not going to run into anything.
The original purpose of speed limits was to protect people on and around the roadways. Then someone got the bright idea to regulate them to try and reduce fuel consumption. Now they've become so perverted that they seem to only exist in many places as a revenue source for local towns, and in causing drivers to spend more time looking at signs on the side of the road and their speedometer, they actually cause the roads to be LESS safe.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Interesting)
While I agree that you should be prepared for anything that may be obstructing the roadway, that white sign halfway hidden behind a bush as you turn a corner is exactly where your attention should NOT be.
In the UK they've recently (last few years) been painting speed restrictions in less-expected places (like on the approach to a small village along a fast, empty road) like this directly on the road. [westsussex.gov.uk] No need to look away. (another picture [mirror.co.uk]). It also reduces sign clutter.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Too Many Traps (Score:5, Interesting)
Were I live the cops call the local tv and radio stations so the stations can ANNOUNCE where speed traps are. The cops don't do this everyday or every time, but mainly when they are doing a big driver safety campaign.
All traffic fines go into general revenue for the Province so there is no incentive for speed traps meant to just collect fines. Most speed traps go up where there are a lot of accidents, or the locals complain about too many cars speeding. Most rush hour radio traffic reports include any speed traps reported by drivers, and I've never heard of there being more than 2 or 3. This is in a city of about 1.5 million.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:4, Informative)
In my city, a big one in Southern California, I've seen plenty of "speed traps" but I've never see one twice in the same place.
As far as cameras are concerned, they're almost always at intersections and people shouldn't be speeding through those anyway! By the way driving while viewing a cell phone is illegal here even though everybody still does it.
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Re:Too Many Traps (Score:4, Interesting)
Bingo! a real speed trap is where the cops have rigged the game to drum up revenue, and is usually associated with a small popcorn fart of a town nearby. A good example I have ran afoul of is heading from LR to Memphis on the old highway system. You'll run across a speed trap set up halfway through the trip in a little town called Wiener,which is a fitting name because the cops there are dicks. They have it drop from 55 to 25 in about a block, maybe a block and a half, and where the 25MPH sign is placed you won't see it unless you know it is there.
Of course you could fight it, but who is going to drive that distance to try to argue with a judge who gets his salary from that sign? But a national map with all those real speedtraps listed would be a great idea. Might help with asshatery like the town I listed above.
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More driver distraction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More driver distraction (Score:4, Informative)
Like the streets aren't dangerous enough without every iPhone user fiddling with their toy trying to "beat the system" while piloting a two ton juggernaut on public streets.
Yeah because speech alerts are really distracting. Did you even read the articles?
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Re:More driver distraction (Score:5, Funny)
Did you even read the articles?
Evidently, you are new here.
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Re:More driver distraction (Score:5, Insightful)
I really did actually, and I noticed that voice alerts are a feature. However, voice alerts != voice control. And I've seen plenty of people start plotting their trip several minutes after they leave the house while driving.
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Re:More driver distraction (Score:5, Informative)
But this has nothing to do with planning a trip. GPS puts you on a map without you telling it ahead of time. When you are close to a reported speed trap, it tells you. That is no different than any other auditory clue. There is no control needed.
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Re:More driver distraction (Score:4, Funny)
let's see you read the article while trying to first post while piloting a 2 ton juggernaut on public streets while mixing another jack and coke.
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breaker breaker (Score:3, Funny)
damn you, iphone. now you've gone and made the CB obsolete
Ha (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't the whole idea of this app to allow people slow down just before the speed trap? If they drive slowly all the time then they don't care about speed traps in the first place
Re:Ha (Score:5, Insightful)
There is an ancillary benefit. While what you say seems on face value to be true, anything that gets drivers to pay more attention to the road and traffic on it will increase safety. Even if that attention is somewhat fleeting, it will help. Public service minded police do not mind as long as you do slow down. There are those that want to catch you to fill the bank account with booty from fines, but for the most part people and police just want safe roads.
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In other news (Score:5, Insightful)
Local police have found a new way to setup surprise speed traps. It stems from an application on the popular iPhone that allows drivers to avoid known speed traps. Now officers just avoid these locations and catch the drivers before or after they exit the alleged "safe zones".
Parent
Re:Ha (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, what will happen is that people will drive faster when the phone says they are not near a speed trap.
Parent
Radio stations did something similar before (Score:5, Interesting)
Back in the 90s in one of the Baltic countries, some radio stations let drivers phone in location of speed traps.
Of course, soon enough the law caught up with that and reporting of police locations because illegal.
However, that didn't phase the station operators a bit. They just requested that people report location of individuals in blue uniforms, using cars with bright flashing lights and shooting microwave radiation at passing cars. No mention was "police" or "speed trap" or anything specific was allowed.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Driving within the speed limits saves on gas too. /. discussion: Fuel efficiency and slow driving? [slashdot.org]
Please see previous
Revenue stream (Score:4, Insightful)
And, they're stupid. (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree, speeding tickets are a bullshit money maker 90% of the time. But think about it -- how stupid are they, using these old fashioned methods? Why not get serious and raise some real money?
I live in Massachusetts. The Mass Pike (I90) is a limited access highway with toll stations on all on/off ramps. Your time on is clocked. Your time off is clocked. By DeMoivre's Theorem, if your average speed is greater than the speed limit, you must have exceeded said speed limit at some point. So, just hand everyone a ticket as they leave the highway, if their average speed was X% higher than the posted speed limit (65) (or mail them one if they use EasyPass).
Here's a related revenue generation idea: triple the rent for all the McDonald's etc. on the I90 service plazas. Hell, open a bunch of new service plazas. People who want to speed will stop (they'll have to, unless they want a ticket). Here's another idea: for a buck, they can feed their turnpike ticket into a machine and it will tell them when it's safe to continue at the posted speed limit without getting a speeding ticket. Idiots who can't do arithmetic will be feeding dollar bills into these machines day in and day out.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, just hand everyone a ticket as they leave the highway, if their average speed was X% higher than the posted speed limit (65) (or mail them one if they use EasyPass).
Which will have all kinds of unintended side-effects. Like people stopping 100 feet before the exit and waiting for 30 seconds, "just to be sure" they don't get a ticket. And people deciding they would rather take the back roads instead of the turnpike. Things like that. Depending on their specific response, as little as a handful of people per day could seriously screw up the system of commuting. And since commuting, not ticketing, is the reason for the existence of the turnpike, I don't see your idea
Re:And, they're stupid. (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Nottingham we have average speed cameras all the way around the ring road. As you suggest, the system is impossible to beat - you simply cannot get from one end to the other in less time than it would take at the legal speed limit, without paying a fine.
As a result, compliance is almost 100%. The system doesn't make any money. In fact it costs considerably more to administer than it brings in by fines.
I personally think this is an excellent system. The council cannot be accused of installing 'revenue cameras'. Everyone obeys the law. There are no cheats (you know, the ones who have the speed trap gadget on their dashboard and endanger everyone by slamming on the brakes at each camera, but never get caught) and everyone is equal.
Similar systems are now being introduced along motorway road works too.
And contrary to what a few other respondents suggest, nobody stops just before the exit camera '"just to be sure" they don't get a ticket', and nobody takes the back roads - they are even slower. It just works - in every respect other than making revenue for the authorities, which is how it should be.
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Re:And, they're stupid. (Score:4, Informative)
That article from the BBC is from 2005 - three years ago when the cameras were still quite new.
Here's an article from the Times: Drivers will have no escape from new speed cameras [timesonline.co.uk]. It's not the one from the BBC from a few months ago that I was looking for, but it makes the point. One penalty per 10000 drivers is near 100 per cent compliance in my book.
Here's another article: Speed Really Does Kill [timesonline.co.uk]. As the article acknowledges, people don't like the evidence, but
Parent
it works both ways, so look at the bottom line (Score:5, Interesting)
'If the application gets people to slow down, I think it's generally considered to be a good thing,' said Atkinson
It gets them to slow down when there's a speed trap because they want to avoid the high probability of a ticket.
BUT, it also gives them the confidence to speed more when they don't believe there's a speed trap.
So it works both ways: It helps increase the "deterrent factor" of the speed traps, but lowers the overall effectiveness of discouraging speeding in general, in the process.
In the end it's probably about a wash for changing the amount of speeding going on. The only thing that's changing is the money that was going to speeding tickets is now going to the authors of the app. And of course since that's what's really important isn't it, we've gotta put a stop to it don'cha know?
Great police tool! (Score:5, Funny)
Now all the police has to do is rate their actual speed traps low and catch the iPhone speeders!
I mean, I always said that Apple users would not pass a round of natural selection, this could be an example ;)
Speed up (Score:3, Insightful)
I appreciate anything that keeps the traffic moving. What we really need is an app to disable the speed trap.
Crazy Idea (Score:4, Insightful)
``the ultimate speed trap repository available to you when you need it most while you're driving.''
Or you could just not drive so fast you would get a ticket. I know, I am totally out of touch with reality and my ideas are correspondingly crazy. But I'll happily take a few minutes extra travel time and have a relaxed ride, because I don't have to worry about law enforcement and other drivers slowing me down.
Re:Crazy Idea (Score:4, Informative)
Unfortunately, there are situations when its not really about that... its small towns that have sudden speed drops and try to take advantage of it. Take the speed trap town I hit a couple of nights ago. The speed limit dropped from 70 to 55, I saw the sign as I was about to pass it (it was night, I didn't have my high-beams on), and began to slow down just as I passed into the zone. I didn't see the cop until I was in the middle of the town, at the proper speed limit (I think it was 35), when he turned on his lights and I noticed the car that had pulled out behind me was a cop.
He ticketed me for 15 over without any questions, no acknowledgement of the fact that I was in the process of obeying the limit, just didn't feel like slamming on the brakes, hurting my car and ruining my gas mileage. The fact that the 1-5mph over fine is $165, should be more than clear that this is not about public safety, but about trying to extract money from the people driving through. They finally put in a nicer convenience store that I was planning to stop at, not going to now... however, I think the $200 they made off the ticket is more than any loss of business the town as a whole will lose now. Also, though I don't recall exactly how the signs were arranged, I wouldn't be surprised if they set up the speed limit signs so that they were hard to see.
So yes, sometimes it is an issue of people needing to slow down, however, it isn't always... it's small towns using one of their biggest resources, the highways that go through them, to generate revenue at the expense of those traveling through.
Parent
-ster (Score:3, Insightful)
The -ster suffix seems to have evolved to mean "We acknowledge at some level that this will probably get us shut down sooner or later."
Bollocks to that (Score:5, Insightful)
Locating speed cameras means people can slow down to avoid a fine and then speed up again- not slow down to be safer. If they were truly trying to help people drive safer how about "WARNING! SCHOOL AHEAD" or "WARNING HIDDEN EXIT AHEAD", no, because slowing down for a speed camera is more rewrd than slowing down and driving safely around risky areas.
Speed traps are old news anyway (Score:3, Interesting)
Stretch control is the new hotness.
On a freeway, set up ANPR cameras on all the ramps, and bust the drivers on their average speed.
Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Funny)
I've always assumed they mean "We can't stop you using this, so we're going to pretend it helps."
I wish people would just, you know, drive slower without having to be forced to, but I guess that's wishful thinking.
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Insightful)
I just wish speed limits were designed for modern cars and modern traffic, not increasing revenue.
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately speed limits are designed for the modern driver. You've all seen them - drivers with the attention span of a crack-addled squirrel and the reflexes of a hypothermic snail. These folks really shouldn't be going fast. In fact, they should stay in their driveway playing with all the little gizmos in the car.
Hey, this would solve a bunch of problems: Oil consumption, traffic congestion, road rage. Buying more gizmos will help the economy. In fact, everyone should go out and buy a new, shiny, gizmo-laden car.
And leave it in their driveway.
I'm calling Senator Obama right now....
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps its our driving instruction and licensing procedures in the US that are at fault. Go look up what they have in Poland. You have to drive on a skidpad during one test even!
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We have lots of skid pads to practice on here. We just don't bother segregating them from the rest of the roadway. More efficient that way.
Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an Englishman who just took his California driving test - I literally couldn't believe how simple it was. The practical consisted of less than ten minutes driving round the block, with no maneuvers other than reversing along a kerb. At no time did I leave a 30 mph zone and parts were even 20mph. How does this in any way test the ability of person to safely handle a car? Especially in the land of the freeway?
It's been 12 years since I took my UK test, which was far more strenuous, and I understand it's been strengthened since then too.
You let 16 year olds get behind the wheel of a 2 ton death mobile with no real qualification and then wonder why things go wrong?
Having said that, after logging several thousand miles around CA, I would pick driving here over the UK any day of the week. Whilst there is the occasional moron it is nothing compared to the sheer aggression of those driving in England.
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider the crap that the beat cops pull on a daily basis around here, no I'm not.
Pulling a U-turn when a sign clearly states otherwise, flicking your lights so you can go through a red light - then turning them off and parking at a diner for your break.
Cops here also have a bad habit of just grabbing people and their objects with no regard for the law. This has happened to me twice. The first time I explained to the cop that if he didn't release me I would be more than happy to defend myself - which got me arrested, but subsequently released - and the second time I reminded the office that I find the rough grabbing of my arms to be an aggressive act - he backed off.
I've also witnessed a cruiser fishtail a vehicle in the middle of the night, without pursuing him. No lights, no siren, nothing. The guy ran a red light, and the cop fishtailed him, THEN put his siren on. The guy in the car was arrested for failure to stop, failure to comply, and some other things. He was shocked - SHOCKED - when I showed up with a video of the event at court on behalf of the defendant.
The city dropped the case and last I heard the man is pursuing civil action.
This shit happens a lot more than is reported. Quite frankly, I think most cops need to be purged from their respective authority systems and shipped to clown college.
so, yes, when cops start obeying the law, so will I. Until then, fuck them.
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:4, Insightful)
You're either reading too much into my statement, or you're a fucking moron.
I don't really understand where you think I'm executing illegal U-turns, speeding, or fishtailing other people because they run red lights. I've never stated that I did any such things, in fact I'm outright denying it right now.
But, hey, you seem to think the statement "when cops start obeying the law, so will I" is a statement of fact. If that was the case, I would've killed a few cops with a taser by now.
Just for reference - since you seem to be unable to think beyond statements - I have not, and have no desire to kill people.
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Re:Sergeant Stronginthearm says... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly I'm the moron, because you made a statement and I assumed you actually meant what you said.
To clarify, in case its a little opaque for you--the statement "when cops start obeying the law, so will I" means that cops represent the government entity that creates laws. When cops break these laws, the government entity effectively breaks its own laws. If that government entity turns a blind eye to this law breaking, it has sacrificed any and all of its moral authority. Moral authority is the only absolute authority any law can have. When this moral authority is gone, then the populace has no absolute reason to obey any law and can and *should* break laws they disagree with or don't like. This is one of the corner stones of civil disobedience and it is an important component of democracy. So quit being righteous and try to think about the motivation about what people say.
When you see people blatantly breaking the law and you are aware of abuse by the police at the same time, you might consider whether that particular municipality has let its moral authority slip. I'm waiting for your righteous rebuttal before I provide half a dozen real world examples of this effect in action. But make sure you are very indignant and condescending when you rebut, or it won't be worth my time.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That would be a fantastic idea wouldn't it.
That must be why my sat nav has had such a database of speed cameras in it for the last two years.
Re:Integrate with in-car navigation? (Score:4, Informative)
I was going to post exactly the same thing. The only reason this is on slashdot is that the IPHONE is involved, and so the story is automatically valid news and not a slashvertisement.
My two year old Garmin also does pretty much exactly what the OP's describing, it will show an icon and play a sound when you're approaching a speed trap. Of course, since it doesn't have any wireless capability, the listed speed traps are mostly stationary speed cameras. I'd imagine newer models would be able to update the database often enough to catch all the cops hiding behind the bushes.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The Tom Tom One here in the UK already does this. It's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but it's the first time it's been done on a phone I guess.
While the primary function of the Tom Tom is as a navigation system, it has optional extras that you can sign up for, like real-time traffic alerts that it picks up (via info texted to your phone) that allows it to automatically pick a route around blocked roads etc, and it also has a list of known speed traps that it can warn you about, including