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China Blocks iTunes
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sat Aug 23, 2008 04:13 AM
from the protesters-need-oxygen-let's-ban-that dept.
from the protesters-need-oxygen-let's-ban-that dept.
eldavojohn writes "If you like iTunes and you are one of the billion people residing in China, you may have noticed that you no longer have access to the eight million songs on it. An album, 'Songs for Tibet' was downloaded more than 40 times by Olympic athletes as a sign of solidarity for Tibet's cause. Ironically, this compilation had songs criticizing the 'Great Firewall of China,' and that is the very thing that prohibited these songs from reaching the Chinese public. Artists on the compilation include Alanis Morissette, Garbage, Imogen Heap, Moby, Sting, Suzanne Vega, Underworld and others."
Additional coverage is available at Computerworld. Earlier this year, China blocked Youtube and other video services for similar reasons. More recently, the Chinese government detained a technologist who planned a pro-Tibet demonstration.
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Your Rights Online: China Blocks YouTube Over Tibet Videos 343 comments
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Your Rights Online: China Continues to Shut Down Video Sites 158 comments
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this is getting interesting (Score:5, Funny)
One day China's great firewall will block itself because it includes word "tibet" in it's blocking rules.
Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Include Tibet(as well as things that would keep the developing world out) as a major part of an mmo. Their own country won't let them play the game.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Oooo! Or, we could fill up Tienanmen square with peaceful people in protest. Then they'd have the choice of listening to us or just mowing us all down.
Parent
Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Oooo! Or, we could fill up Tienanmen square with peaceful people in protest.
No, this is bound to work :
"'Songs for Tibet' was downloaded more than 40 times by Olympic athletes as a sign of solidarity for Tibet's cause"
If this doesn't make the world take the notice, nothing will. I mean *40 times*, that's probably as many as 40 people. Downloading an album from iTunes. Now *that's* solidarity !
Take that China !
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Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Step 1: declare a song for Tibet as your (temporary) national anthem ...
Step 2: win olympic gold
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Re:this is getting interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
They'd pull the internet connection; don't kid yourself.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They'd pull the internet connection; don't kid yourself.
So they either give up the firewall and open up, or kill the internet access entirely and cut themselves off from what has proven to be the single most important invention of recent years. It's lose-lose for them, and win-win for us. What have we got to lose?
Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Money.
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Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
Communism in it's true form is more akin to anarchism - it's never been seen to work because it's never really been tried...
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
early Communists and Anarchists sought to preserve the communal lands and communal lifestyle, but also sought to overthrow the feudal aristocracy to establish democracy, this made them both progressive and conservative. more on the Amish see: http://people.howstuffworks.com/amish.htm [howstuffworks.com]
Many of these groups opposed progress, a
Re:this is getting interesting (Score:5, Informative)
You might want to do a little reading before making statements like that.
Anarchism is a "political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which support the elimination of all compulsory government". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism [wikipedia.org]
Communism is a "socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism [wikipedia.org]
Anarchism and communism are about as "akin" as apples and kangaroos.
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Re:Western Romanticism (Score:5, Funny)
Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party.
1. WE are in control Muthafucker
2. 40 million dead and counting.
3. Don't make me re-educate you.
4. If 12 year olds are good enough for Mao, then they are good enough for the Gymnast team.
5. Pollution? What pollution?
6. One kid. It's the LAW.
7. Never too young for a job!
9. Never met a technology we couldn't steal.
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To be fair to China (Score:5, Funny)
Blocking an album containing Alanis Morissette, Garbage, Moby and Sting is probably preventing human rights violations as much as it contributes to them. Isn't that ironic?
Re:To be fair to China (Score:5, Funny)
Blocking an album containing Alanis Morissette, Garbage, Moby and Sting is probably preventing human rights violations as much as it contributes to them. Isn't that ironic?
It's like rain on your wedding day, It's a free ride when you've already paid, It's the good advice that you just didn't take, Who would've thought ... it figures
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Re:To be fair to China (Score:5, Funny)
In fairness to China, they make the iPod, so they should get a veto over what crap people listen to on it.
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Re:To be fair to China (Score:4, Funny)
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iTunes != iTunes Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Shouldn't that be "China Blocks iTunes Store"? What is this, Internet News by Joe Sixpack?
ooooh, 40 downloads (Score:4, Insightful)
That will send a strong message to the chinese leaders, a country with over a billion people in a world of 6 billion people and a olympic event involving hundreds if not thousands of athletes and their support staff. 40 downloads.
Guess that shows just how much athletes really care about peace and such.
Did I download it? No, but then I don't try to pretend that my sporting event is anything else then an ego trip to prove I am better then everyone else.
Frankly, the truth is nobody really cares about Tibet. Oh we might buy the t-shirt but we also buy t-shirts with the logo of a soda brand or whatever band the music industry pushed on us.
Show me an athlete who refuses his medal to make a point and then I might think the olympics are any different from the soccer world championship.
!Ironic! (Score:4, Interesting)
Soo... I hate to say it (err, okay, that's a lie, i love pointing these out!), but china blocking a song protesting china blocking things isn't irony! It's just not!
Irony is (roughly) when something happens that is the opposite of what expected... but if you criticize a tyrant... you can expect to get censored!
-Taylor
Not blocked! (Score:5, Informative)
You could build a TOR relay into Firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
It would pretty much make the chinese firewall moot.
I am shocked! (Score:3, Insightful)
I am shocked - SHOCKED - that a repressive totalitarian regime would censor something criticizing it.
Oh wait. I'm not.
I'm shocked that people keep forgetting that China is ruled by a repressive totalitarian regime.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They have the power to kill free debate and discussion within their borders. That's true. They have the power to murder Tibetans and then tell the rest of the country that Tibetans are very happy to be part of China, on pain of imprisonment.
But as a free people, we have the right to point and them and call them cowards. That's about our freedom to call it like we see it. As long as there is freedom of speech anywhere in the world, then no one has the "right" to not have their evil discussed abroad.
Too afraid to see who they are (Score:5, Insightful)
This behaviour reminds me of the type of person who is so self-absorbed that they don't know what a complete joke people think they are. All the while, they try to sell you on their big opinion of themselves.
The chinese actions would be hilarious, except that so much human suffering is involved. China is completely out of touch with itself.
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Re:Too afraid to see who they are (Score:4, Insightful)
Why, most westerners actually think that the citizens of Taiwan actually want to be a separate country!
The next thing those crazy westerners will be trying to tell us is that the Chinese governement actually masaccred students in Tienneman Square! What a load of propaganda!
You think this is funny? Sarcastic?
You're just proving my point.
The current Taiwanese president's (who was popularly elected) stance on Taiwan's status is that he wouldn't push for independence, instead preferring to tread the fine line of the current status quo. The Taiwanese aren't actually loathing for (re)union with China, but they aren't unequivocally for independence either.
And I didn't read People's Daily about the Tienanmen Square event. Did you use CNN/Foxnews as your sources? Have you watched this before? http://www.tsquare.tv/ [tsquare.tv] (note: it isn't made by the Chinese)
And as for the more serious items...
Uh, how about hold elections? The kind where anybody can run? And how about having a free press where one isn't punished for expressing one's opinions? That would be a good start and in the long run would substantially improve the situation.
Considering the fact that most of China is still in poverty, how would you resolve the problem of buying votes? How would you prevent "free press" from inciting revolts and bringing the whole society into chaos? [note: this isn't far fetched, it has more than once in the past few decades] And if you think your suggestions are really insightful, I'd have to break your bubble. The Chinese government tried to move towards this direction two decades ago, and it sort of backfired, resulting in the Tienanmen incident. The government had been cautious to try it again (but it seems they are gradually opening up again in recent years). I'm not making this up... go watch the documentary (above link) yourself.
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Re:Don't blame Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
It's easier to blame the Chinese than look at our own problems and realize we in the West should clean house first.
Now, America is deeply flawed in several ways, and I'm no fan of the Bush cabal (having protested against him on numerous occasions), and think Guantanamo is going to be a black eye on this country for a century to come. THAT SAID, I think your statements go too far. Show me anti-Bush bloggers or songwriters disappearing off the streets of NY or Chicago or LA, and I'll agree America's problems deserve more attention than China's. Show me major websites and other internet services blocked to Americans by the government, major religious movements crushed, single-party leaders in power for decades, and then you're proven right. Until then, you took your point too far. Yes, Bush/Cheney have done everything they can to get us there, and did make fearful strides towards totalitarianism, but the U.S. is not quite China yet.
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Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:5, Insightful)
*shrug* - the apartheid regime owes it's downfall partly due to economic sanctions by the western world. You can't achieve everything just by getting public opinion in the west on your side. But the western world is powerful, and public opinion is a powerful factor in the western world.
You are right that you don't have to be brave to protest for Tibet while living in the US, you just have to be willing to get of your butt. So what?
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Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:5, Insightful)
So we should accept another country's right to censorship because that's the moral thing to do? How come that moral concept is universal, and the moral concept of human rights is not? I don't see how that position makes sense.
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Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:4, Interesting)
"A country should be able to make decisions about what ideas it tolerates within its borders."
If you take the liberal constitutional approach, the one with all the founding fathers and such, no, absolutely not. If you take the ancient Athenian view, the one that killed Socrates, then yes, but only under a democratic government. Since the Chinese government is not democratically elected or accountable to "the people," you're conflating the "country" with the "people in power." That's okay, I guess, as long as you have some rationale for determining the legitimacy of the Chinese regime. Is that justification simply that the people in power have a right to speak for the country simply because they were able to pull themselves up to the top---e.g., might makes right? As far as I know that particular sophistry was debunked thousands of years ago (again, see Socrates). Is there some sort of divine authority that legitimizes the CCP's authority---doubtful, since they're atheistic. Capitalism has taken hold with a vengeance in China, so I guess Marxism's out the door. So what's the source of the Chinese government's "right" to do anything?
"There's no scientific proof that our way is the universal right!"
That might be because ethics does not pose any scientific questions. But maybe you're right; as long as there's one guy out there who doesn't agree with us, we should all abandon our principles for fear of offending his sensibilities.
Okay, that was horrible.
Nazis.
Nazis.
Nazis.
Parent
Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:5, Insightful)
The West kicked the ass of the totalitarian regimes of Nazi Germany and Italy in WWII, and then watched communism crumble into the ground. Politically free, free market societies simply tend to do better in the long run than repressive, totalitarian societies. Or look at the Arab dictatorships of the Middle East: sure, a lot of them are wealthy, but they're basically all failures. In scientific terms they have produced nothing, in economic terms they produce nothing except oil, and in military terms, none of them could take on Israel in a fight.
Suppressing political discourse and reporting basically means that the government is no longer accountable for its failures. For instance, if a family protests the fact that a school collapsed in an earthquake and killed their daughter, and you arrest the family (which is the kind of shit the Chinese government is currently doing), well sure it helps the government maintain control. But it also means that the corrupt people who built the substandard schools go free and the problem doesn't get fixed. Perhaps you get stability, but in the long run the lack of government accountability means that the system lacks the ability to improve itself and adapt to changing conditions. Basically, you're saying that the ideas and opinions of 99% of your population aren't worth listening to. That's just a stupid way to run a society. And keep in mind that for all of China's impressive economic growth, the vast majority of the country is still dirt poor. They've managed to create a middle and upper class, but it remains to be seen whether the rest of the country can share in the gains.
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Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:4, Insightful)
Or look at the Arab dictatorships of the Middle East: sure, a lot of them are wealthy, but they're basically all failures. In scientific terms they have produced nothing, in economic terms they produce nothing except oil, and in military terms, none of them could take on Israel in a fight.
Let's not get excited and go overboard.
The region of Iraq was historically known as Mesopotamia (Greek: "between the rivers"). It was home to the world's first known civilization, the Sumerian culture, followed by the Akkadian, Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures, whose influence extended into neighboring regions as early as 5000 BC. These civilizations produced some of the earliest writing and some of the first sciences, mathematics, laws and philosophies of the world; hence its common epithet, the "Cradle of Civilization"
Also read a bit about the Islamic Golden Age beginning in the 8th century.
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Re:Every country has a different threshold (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually it makes perfect sense to me.
I'm English. I therefore don't have the right to carry a firearm. This would probably cause (possibly armed) riots in the streets over in the USA. Me? I'm perfectly happy not carrying one, and knowing that the people I see aren't going to be carrying one.
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I am also reading /. and I am in Beijing, there is now way they would ever block access to sl
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We really aren't that affected at all
Did you know there's a word for that? It's called apathy.
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, but China's history of human rights abuses speaks for itself.
If its history we're talking about, then what about America's history of human rights abuse (slave trade anyone?), or the UK (slaves again, plus that whole empire thing, and navvies).
In fact almost all western countries have just as bad a record as China, only for us a lot of it is in the past. for the US that past isn't too far back, we are in fact talking just decades since the 'not slaves any more honest' were fully accorded the rights they were promised by Lincoln.
Not that I don't like America, I do, its just that I don't hide from the truth of things.
So, check your history before declaring China to be the fount of all that is wrong in the world.
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Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Insightful)
If China is taking moral cues from how Imperial powers acted in the 19th century and before then yes, we have a problem.
Interestingly, no one seems to know much about how the slave trade was ended, in large part due to the efforts of Britain after we decided to abolish it.
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Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is not that the United States has made no mistakes- it's made some pretty awful ones. The difference is that when society feels that these mistakes need to be corrected, the government sooner or later has to respond, because citizens are free to voice their opinions and influence the debate. That happened with the abolition of slavery, and that happened again with the civil rights movement. Elements of the government did try to fight the civil rights movement, but ultimately Martin Luther King was not sent off to a labor camp for re-education. That meant he was able to keep speaking out to persuade our society and our government to try to do the right thing.
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Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Informative)
That happened with the abolition of slavery, and that happened again with the civil rights movement. Elements of the government did try to fight the civil rights movement, but ultimately Martin Luther King was not sent off to a labor camp for re-education. That meant he was able to keep speaking out to persuade our society and our government to try to do the right thing.
I'm not sure if that exactly supports your point. Many people were beaten or hanged during slavery for resisting, and it took a "war between the states" to eventually force the lower half of the country to give up their practice of slavery.
Same thing with the civil rights movement -- many people were beaten or jailed for demanding that (gasp!) people were equal despite skin color, which most civilized people have come to accept.
Parent
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:4, Insightful)
I object to ALL human rights abuses. As it stands the subject of *this* conversation and *this* Olympics is China's human right's abuses.
I'm well versed in the human rights abuses of Western countries, thank you very much. I did have an open mind on China during the lead up to the Olympics, but as I learned more it's evident that China has a record of human rights abuses at least as bad as western countries.
Oppression is a trans-national phenomenon that must be challenged wherever it occurs.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, there is plenty of fairly solid evidence of bad things happening to people who criticise the Chinese government or its policies, and of deliberate attempts by the police to shut them up (usually, but not always, in the non-fatal sense). While it's unclear if these a
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:4, Insightful)
Complete strawman. The people who criticize China tend to be people who also criticize the US. They're not hypocrites for including China as a target.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Can you even access slashdot from within China?
I am not sure but a chinese guy in my team (I live in Australia) was browsing something which was obviously slashdot: same colors, layout, software etc but in chinese. I said to him hey thats slashdot and he said whats slashdot?.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
slashdot in spain
http://barrapunto.com/ [barrapunto.com] I believe the title literally translates to "Slashdot"
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Funny)
http://barrapunto.com/ I believe the title literally translates to "Slashdot"
And hey, if you Google translate barrapunto.com from Spanish to English, it's more better grammar, too!
http://translate.google.ca/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbarrapunto.com%2F&sl=es&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 [google.ca]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I was in China a couple of weeks ago to visit family and friends. I was in Nanjing and I used the internet to check on the availability of some site that I frequently use.
There are 3 kinds of sites in China in terms of availability. The first is the site with its server in China, these sites are usually fast and reliable. But sometimes you can find a foreign site that responds really fast, like slashdot did for me.
The second are the sites that are totally blocked. Apart from the obvious ones like FalunGong
Re:Slashdot in China (Score:5, Informative)
A government so concerned about loosing face in the Olympics...
Precisely, it's not the government, but the officials are so concerned about that. Mao taught the people a lesson that they have to be "political correct" otherwise you will lose your head (most likely not only you but your family), that's 70's and has since become a culture. Today, you won't lose your head that easily (there's a lot of voices against the government in local blog and forum) but for the officials, there is nothing "wrong" to be "political correct", why risking my job in doing the otherwise?
If you think we live under a government that the people fear, that's probably how an extreme Chinese might think about the American too (under the fear of terrorism and the watch of the Big Brother). The fact is, no we are not, and we are probably the same. Both China and US, the general public are not affected, we still work, play, shop and watching porn unaffected. We both think the government is stupid. There might be a little difference how we voice out about our hate to the government, but other than that, I think there are no difference. (Ok, I'm a Hong Kong citizen currently living and working in Shanghai, closely interactive with my colleagues who are Chinese. I also regularly travel to US for working purpose and has been an Exchange student there.)
And, as always, the Chinese already figured out how to circumvent the particular iTunes problem, if you know how to read Chinese: http://www.macx.cn/a/a.mac?B=4000&ID=656667&Ar=656867&AUpflag=1&Ap=1&Aq=1 [www.macx.cn]
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