Slashdot Log In
Apple Sued For Turning Workers Into Slaves
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Aug 07, 2008 08:21 AM
from the waiting-for-a-jon-ives-designed-prison dept.
from the waiting-for-a-jon-ives-designed-prison dept.
SwiftyNifty writes "Apple employees are putting together a class action lawsuit for not receiving overtime pay. A Lawsuit filed Monday in California seeks class action status alleging that Apple denied technical staffers required overtime pay and meal compensation in violation of state law.
Filed in the US District Court for Southern California, the complaint claims that many Apple employees are routinely subjected to working conditions resembling indentured servitude, or 'modern day slaves,' for lack of better words."
Related Stories
[+]
News: What Tech Workers Need To Know About Overtime 418 comments
onehitwonder writes "The class-action lawsuit that current and former Apple employees have filed against the company raises questions about what kinds of workers are covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) — and thus, what kinds of workers are eligible for overtime pay. Some tech workers are covered under it; some are not though perhaps they should be. The lawyer who got IBM workers a $65M settlement from Big Blue for violating labor laws explains why employers often deny tech workers overtime pay and the circumstances under which certain tech workers may or may not be covered under the FLSA. From the article: 'It's not uncommon for employers to err on the side of classifying employees as exempt [from the FLSA], says Sagafi... In fact, the dirty little secret among employers and HR departments is that classifying employees as exempt — even if it means breaking the law — is in their best interest[,] provided... that they don't get caught... "In a sense, they may see it as economically viable for them to skirt the law and wait to see if they get sued because the exposure is not that huge [if they don't get sued]," Sagafi says. "If they can settle [a complaint] for less than 100 percent of what they owe people [for overtime], they've gotten away with a good deal."'"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
who pays a cultist? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:who pays a cultist? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
What would Stallman say? (Score:5, Funny)
He'd say, you don't need to get paid. I agree. Steve Jobs agrees. Where's the problem?
Parent
Re:who pays a cultist? (Score:5, Funny)
YVAN EHT NOIJ
Parent
Re:who pays a cultist? (Score:5, Funny)
cultists don't get payed
But they do get matching outfits and killer group discounts.
Parent
Re:who pays a cultist? (Score:5, Funny)
cultists don't get payed
But they do get matching outfits and killer group discounts.
Best of all, drinks are on the house.
Parent
News... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know for all the flak we give the traditional media, at least they don't have headlines like this.
Not properly dispensing overtime pay is not the same thing as slavery, and the disconnect between the inflammatory headline and TFA is appalling.
On a lighter note, the CAPTCHA for me is unionize.
Re:News... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yours is one of many posts saying the same thing (and getting +5 insightful).
Why are you guys focusing on bashing the headline instead on the actual problem, which is that highly skilled people are working over time for nothing?
This IS a serious problem because,
- It is so common in the industry that there aren't lots of alternatives.
- The more they work the more others (even in other countries) are forced to work.
- Quitting is not a serious option unless you are rich and work for sport.
Parent
Slaves, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Slaves, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Damn right, they are 'Resources' not Slaves.
Parent
Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
My Wife's A Teacher (Score:5, Insightful)
She and her colleagues have "X" number of contract days for which they must report to work.
However of late, the practice has begun of additional "nonmandatory" meetings, training sessions, and general workdays. You know, "for the children." This has grown to the point where she is probably present "at work" during about 12 to 15 days of her summer vacation. None of this time is compensated in any way; in fact, with gasoline costs as they are, you may readily say SHE is paying for this privilege.
Oh, it's "not mandatory," but it is "expected" by the administrators, who like to boast to their peers about the amount of "donated time" they're getting out of their teachers. "Failure to cooperate" can lead to subtle retaliation.
My point is that this isn't "slavery" but it is d*mned inconsiderate. If you want to climb the "ladder of success," don't do it on the backs of your "underlings."
Re:My Wife's A Teacher (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Is everyone a freakin slave these days? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good god it appears to be the phrase of the year "We are just modern slaves". Top of the shop of abuse of the term is Sepp "I'm a nutter" Blatter who in reference to someone who is paid about $300,000 A WEEK said that it was just like modern slavery [google.co.uk].
These people aren't slaves because.... THEY COULD QUIT. It might be tough, it might be hard, but either quit and get another job or work out a constructive way of fixing it.
Don't compare it to the physical ownership of another human being and the sort of destruction of human rights that entails.
IDE chain gang (Score:5, Funny)
Apple employees should just switch which pins are connected via the jumper. It's clearly labeled on the top of the drive.
Such Insensitivity (Score:5, Funny)
I take it these people didn't get the memo. Do these people not know that?
The Apple Employee (Score:5, Funny)
It Just Works.(TM)
pathetic (Score:5, Interesting)
Equating earning $100k and working in an air conditioned office longer than you expected with SLAVERY disparages the memories of those who were whipped to near death while working in fields, and paid nothing.
I think the court should order those workers to work on plantations without pay for a while, then reconsider their use of the word "slavery."
Re:pathetic (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Delicious (Score:5, Funny)
"Coke Cola introduced a new, delicious Lime-twisted beverage today, creating a Holocaust of flavor formerly unknown to this world until today. The lines of people at convenience stores remind one of cattle awaiting an unknown fate, only these cattle were people, and the fate a tasty, carbonated beverage."
Just until the suite is resolved,, (Score:5, Informative)
Just wait until they win their suit..Apple will pay the court required payments.. then convert all those employee to an hourly status...at a base pay cut design to make it so that all the overtime is required to make it back to what they were getting in salary in the first place.
For the IBM employeesu in California that sued for the same thing.. the class won $56M and everyone in the class was reclassified as hourly at a 15% pay cut, because based on IBM's calculations that would keep the wage payments at the same level after the switch from salary to hourly. And oh by the way.. IBM applied the reclassification across all American employees in the same job category, but not the class action payments.
Welcome to Corporate America (Score:5, Insightful)
... where, unless you are upper management, you are getting the shaft. Being a developer, I particularly like how (at my company anyway) our sales staff pulls down Director level salary and obscene commissions on the gross (NOT net) product they push out the door ... even when it means a loss for the company.
I remember back years ago where there were a few movements to form programmers unions ... doomed to failure from the inception. Programmers don't need huge entrenched installations to do our work like, say, UAW workers do ... and since every cocky high school kid who has churned out "Hello World" in Visual Basic thinks they can do real development ... and the typical management position that developers are an easily replaced commodity.
I dunno. I'm just old and jaded. Always do the best work you are capable of doing, and if you feel you deserve better compensation when your company is either unwilling (don't see you as a valuable asset) or unable (poor decisions have left them so fubar that they can't) then it is time to move on. Possibly more important ... if you are unhappy doing what you are doing, forget the compensation and move ASAP.
Suing your own company for a perceived lack of compensation is the best way to build resentment and to nail the coffin shut on your future with that, or any other, company.
Slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the law (Score:5, Informative)
Read the laws reguarding overtime. According the the Fair Labor Standards Act, an employee must be classified as exempt by meeting certain legal requirements, or they must be paid 1.5x their hourly wage. The law specifically states that no contract or agreement between employee and employer can override the law.
Read all about it, you very well might be a victim too!
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/flsa/ [dol.gov]
Re:Queue the jokes, and something serious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Queue the jokes, and something serious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Really ? According to an article I read (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the US is the ONLY industrialized nation where annual leave is not a legal requirement. Heck, most DEVELOPING countries have it as a requirement. 14 days a year in South Africa (and if you don't use them all, they have to pay you for it), a full month in Brazil, 2 months in Germany.
And the grand irony - legally protected annual leave has been proven to INCREASE corporate productivity (as much as any economic idea is ever proven anyways).
Parent
Re:Queue the jokes, and something serious... (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, state law typically trumps any/all contract law - if the contract signed was illegal, then you're not held to it.
I don't get paid for showing up to work per hour. I get paid to work and do a job.
We're in America - we're free to fail, and I think that people don't like that sometimes - they felt they are owed for simply trying. You're not. Hence the complaints about stupid stuff like this where people FEEL "trapped" when they're not in it as much as they think they are. Successful people don't whine about their circumstances - they go out and try to change them.
Parent
Re:Queue the jokes, and something serious... (Score:5, Informative)
"They can't fire you for not working overtime. "
Yes, yes they can, they can fire you without even giving a reason in any of the "at will" states.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Honda, Toyota, and Subaru seem happy to build cars in the US.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Informative)
So how does this compare, to BMW for example, where their German workforce is also highly unionized? Have they essentially done the same thing as the U.S. automakers, essentially shipping jobs away from heavy regulations in favor of lighter ones?
A quick Google search http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=bmw+unionization+U.S.+plants [google.com] tells me that the U.S. plant is non-unionized but pays competitive wages. What this doesn't say is how their non-wage costs, benefits and retirement for example, compare with their unionized force in German and with the Big 3.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Interesting)
A quick Google search http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=bmw+unionization+U.S.+plants [google.com] tells me that the U.S. plant is non-unionized but pays competitive wages.
Toyota does the same thing in the US. They pay union wages and union benefits in order to keep the union out. Some of their plants have unionized and Toyota is very careful to make sure that non-union plants keep pace with the wages and benefits of the union plants. If you are getting the same benefits without paying union dues, why would employees want a union? Makes sense on both sides as long as Toyota has a few union shops to keep them honest.
To be fair to GM and Ford, they have a generation or two of union costs on them that the new Toyota and Honda ventures do not. Let's see if the Asian manufactures can continue as they are now after they have as many US retirees as US employees. Maybe they can, but I'll be surprised.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Interesting)
If the foreign manufacturers can find ways to keep health care costs under control they will continue to have a serious advantage over GM and Ford...
My brother works for a Toyota plant. They have a pharmacy on site where employees can get over the counter medicine for free. Toyota pays 100% of his monthly premium and his coverage is significantly better than any I've had anywhere I've worked. They already absorb much more of their employees' health care costs than most corporations, which they can do thanks to little retiree benefit costs right now.
...and be able to keep the "built in the USA" perception.
Perception? Their vehicles are "built in the USA" more so than the so-called American car companies.
Parent
Re: unions (Score:5, Interesting)
I worked as a contractor at Chrysler and maintained their driving simulator. There was a union guy in the lab that was responsible for moving stuff around (I'd get fired if I moved a PC, I had to ask him to do it). Since we weren't moving stuff around much, he spent most of the day sleeping. Every once and a while the mock-up shop needed him to build a 1-1 scale car out of wood. It would take him a few days to build an exact replica of a new vehicle. The work he did (does?) was amazing.
Long story short: people with great potential and skills are sitting around doing nothing.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Interesting)
So how does this compare, to BMW for example, where their German workforce is also highly unionized? Have they essentially done the same thing as the U.S. automakers, essentially shipping jobs away from heavy regulations in favor of lighter ones?
I don't think it's so much the strength of the labor regulations - though if you're going to move, choosing less restrictive countries makes sense. But I think it's more of a "do-over". Once your workforce has gone union in a particular country, it's pretty much impossible to un-unionize it, so you basically have to move it overseas somewhere and fight the unionization move there if you want to survive. So Japanese and German companies can make cars in the US, the US companies can make cars in Mexico, etc.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
it's mostly because of tariffs, not because of the unions.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Interesting)
Unions aren't needed where people are treated fairly. The union has been trying to get it's way into foreigned-owned car manufactureres like Toyota and Nissan for years. AFAIK, the UAW has been unable to succeed. Twice the vote to unionized at Nissan has been voted down 2 to 1 [nytimes.com].
Personally I have no respect for unions anymore since they are actively trying to unionize illegal workers [cnn.com]. The union was supposed to be about protecting American jobs, not encouraging those who are breaking the law. Now it's all about the $$$.
But the only real way to get manufacturers back in the US is for it to be more expensive for goods from overseas to come into the US than to be manufactured here. But neither party seems willing to do anything to stop US companies from outsourcing to countries with minimal wages and even more minimal safety practices.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I have no respect for unions anymore since they are actively trying to unionize illegal workers [cnn.com]. The union was supposed to be about protecting American jobs, not encouraging those who are breaking the law. Now it's all about the $$$.
Unions are about protecting workers, as people.
Solidarity with your fellow worker doesn't necessarily end at the border, at least not for all of us. The whole idea of unionizing is to avoid exploited workers. Illegal immigrants are more vulnerable to that. In fact, their vulnerability is what makes them more interesting for employers.
If illegal immigrants were unionized, they would lose some of their appeal as slave workers, which could even have a beneficial effect for all workers.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
The point you make is the exact point all corporations make in order to exploit cheap foreign labor. "Well, their lives sucked, so let us pay them peanuts, then they must be happy"
Also it is beyond my understanding that someone tells us that what is being done is good for them without seeing there, talking to anyone working there. Don't you think it is way too arrogant to "know" what is good for them?
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Also it is beyond my understanding that someone tells us that what is being done is good for them without seeing there, talking to anyone working there. Don't you think it is way too arrogant to "know" what is good for them?
All I have to know is that the sweatshop workers decided, on their own free will, to go and work for Apple under those conditions to conclude that this is better for them than the alternatives. I am not arrogant enough to think I know better than they do what's good for them. Note that they might hate their job, but it's better than the alternatives.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Informative)
I can't talk to them because they speak Chinese. But I have worked with them and have spoken to the factory engineers who do speak English.
They aren't all "happy", and nor are they all "sad". That's too simplistic. They are people with a wide range of emotions. Most of them - as I said before - were subsistence farmers and most have no education. None at all. They can't read or write.
The competition for labor is fierce. They move around from factory to factory seeking higher pay (the engineers do this, too). They aren't slaves that are compelled to work in one place.
Would they rather be living with their families? Certainly some (most?) would. Are they happy to have a full belly and some money to send back home? Absolutely.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Informative)
Protecting a domestic job artificially costs the entire society in productivity lost and higher cost of goods sold. It's like enacting a tax to benefit the factory worker.
Besides the economic mumbo-jumbo, the choices aren't "$50/month for an iPod maker in China vs. $2500/month for an iPod maker in the west". In reality, the production line would include a lot more automation if it had to be produced in the west. Just look at western vs. Chinese coal mines. Also, if products cost more, fewer would be sold and so even fewer workers would be needed. How many iPods do you think Apple would sell if the price doubled or tripled?
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, I've made some generalizations in my time, but to make a billion person generalization, that's amazing.
I know your 80 year old friend has seen a lot of years, but I highly doubt with 1 billion people, he has seen nearly enough of the quality of life of at the very least hundreds of millions of Chinese who are drinking water poisoned by industry and starving because their natural food sources like fish are being wiped out.
On top of that, working 15 hours a day for peanuts is what it is. There's no amount of "relative" standard you can apply to it to spin it to sound not so bad.
This kind of #1 economy apologism is the type of disgusting crap you see from Bill O'Reilly. "They don't need more than a couple dollars a day. They don't know any better. They have enough money to buy a bowl of rice and they're happy." The fact that someone has meager goals because they live in a poor situation isn't a justification for the broad statements that presume that they're satisified and happy with their quality of life.
Now personally I believe this is China's problem to deal with internally and we have our own domestic poor that we're not handling that well, but to try to escape any moral association with taking advantage of disgusting labor conditions and wages by making uninformed generalizations and excuses about how self-limiting they are...
I think the argument is ridiculous, the points brought up are illogical and unsupported, and generally the whole effort to whitewash the situation turns my stomach.
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
while we think working 15 hour days is ridiculous, let's keep in mind that a lot of people in China pray for any employment... remember that China's population is measured in BILLIONS- there's just not enough work to go around.
If there's not enough work to go around, then how come people have to work 15 hours a day to do it?
Parent
Re:No, *THESE* are slaves (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, you not going to suddenly go all inconsistent and say that's totally different are you?
That's totally disingenuous. The Chinese subsistence farmers leave on their own accord (actually have to be kept out of the cities by force). African slaves were rounded up, chained up, and sold. Chinese factory workers can go back to their families on the farm, or can change jobs (and frequently do) as they are not indentured or bound to their employer. Slaves could not go anywhere.
There are certainly elements of the Chinese government's policy that I think infringe on human rights - but to call it slavery is frankly disgusting, since there ARE people living as slaves today (mostly in the sex trade IIRC).
Parent
Re:the new neocon slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
I remember when slashdot was full of smart people with a liberal philosophy
I don't remember that. I remember a slashdot full of nerds... all the way down.
Parent
Re:Cry me a river (Score:5, Insightful)
.
Don't misunderstand, I think it is very macho of you to give your labor away for free. Being taken advantage of by your bosses is the best way to prove that you are an IT god, after all. I'm sure that since you've taken care of your company in this way, they'll take care of you. Even if shipping your job someplace else or just eliminating it makes financial sense, I'm sure you'll be fine. After all, after all the loyalty and dedication you've shown, they'd never do that to you, would they?
Incidentally, iPods/iPhones? Worthless consumer junk, give me the cash not the overpriced trinket.
Parent