Apple Says 250,000 iPhones Sold to Unlockers 311
Hugh Pickens writes "Timothy D. Cook, Chief Operating Officer at Apple, disclosed during Apple's conference call to discuss their fourth quarter earnings that they estimate 250,000 of the 1.4 Million iPhones that have been sold were bought by people intending to unlock the phone. 'The elasticity in demand with the price drop] enabled us to far surpass our expectation of hitting around a million units cumulatively by the end of the quarter. Some number of these were sold to people that have an intention to unlock and [while] we don't know precisely how many people are doing that, our current guess is there is probably 250,000 of the 1.4 million that we sold where people had bought them with the intention of doing that. Many of those happened after the price cut.' Apple knows how many iPhones have been sold and how many have been activated with ATT. The difference is the number that are unlocked."
Whats the big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Informative)
* The "real" web browser can be a lifesaver. I was able to conduct business as usual, accessing OWA, using PayPal, etc. No Blackberry-ized web.
* "Real" email is also a plus. Getting PDF attachments and actually seeing them rendered as they're supposed to be rendered helps.
* Visual voicemail was a great benefit on vacation. When you have 10-12 messages to go through, a day, seeing exactly who sent what and picking/choosing was a godsend.
* Video plays very well on it, and was a great benefit on 8-hour plane flights.
* Even "just as a phone", there's a number of features that it just does better than other phones. I never could recall, for example, the key combination to do 3-way calling on my Blackberry. On the iPhone it was just a couple of button presses.
It's still not perfect. If you receive a large attachment (e.g. a 1 MB+ JPG) it can error. I've seen the web browser crash a few times while playing music. Also, the screen is a fingerprint magnet.
That said, the same people complaining "What's so good about an iPhone?" are likely the same that complained years ago "What's so good about carrying around a cell phone?" Until you have one, using it every day, you don't realize how good beneficial it can be.
I can only hope that other manufacturers copy the design well enough that someone else can release a model at a lower price.
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Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of us get paid lots of money to do that.
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Just for reference, the Romans had almost 180 "holy days" each year, making for about a 50/50 split between work and days off. Again, we workaholic Americans have it all wrong.
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Which begs the question [begthequestion.info], why don't people use words and language [blogspot.com] the ways in which they were intended? I say we decimate [brothersjuddblog.com] the lot!
Okay, I'm just trying to make a point here, of course. I'm not saying I entirely disagree with you, but we'll forever fight uphill battles if we hold too tightly to original Latin, and so forth. ;)
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Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:4, Informative)
Try again:
Vacationem: "leisure, as being free from duty."
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Is that part of the job description?
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Well, it sounds like you had a nice relaxing holiday
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Welcome to 2002 (Score:3, Informative)
Sure the WM platform has its problems, it just amazes me people are stunned when can use a web browser, read PDF, and view video on a phone when it has been around for so long, and oh yeah, you can get a better equiped Smartphone for about $200 less than an iPhone, and most of them ar
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* "Real" email is also a plus. Getting PDF attachments and actually seeing them rendered as they're supposed to be rendered helps.
Yes, like Symbian and Windows Mobile phones have had for many years.
I can only hope that other manufacturers copy the design well enough that someone else can release a model at a lower price.
I hope nobody copies the iPhone; it's a big ste
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To be honest, I did. I usually buy new gadgets for the sheer reason that they're new gadgets. I didn't go into it with any possible Apple fanboy bias.
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Funny)
You just don't get it, do you?
It's got an "i" in its name. That's right, not just any old copy of the ninth letter of the Roman alphabet, but a motherfucking lower-case "i".
Comprendez?
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's another perspective (as opposed to the other one already extolled by another poster above):
I'm among the 250K iPhone buyers who bought to unlock. I, unfortunately, live in Canada, but the feature set appeared solid enough (and my iPod had the good grace to suddenly die on me) that I decided to make the jump. I don't regret it one bit and here is why:
- Full email access on the go is very nice. A Blackberry does this also, but very few other phones do. I've never realized how nice it is to have email access on the road - airline reservation number? No need to bring a sticky note, or anything else for that matter, it's all cached on the phone.
- The full web browser is a bigger feature than people give it credit for. I communicate heavily via forums, wiki, etc, for work, and being able to check these in a non-crippled (like a Blackberry, or every other phone really) phone is really, really, really nice.
- It is, in the end, just a phone and iPod slammed together. But it is also the nicest phone I've ever used, bar none. The interface is intuition, the buttons are easy to hit (which can't be said for Sony Ericsson phones, which used to be my favored brand - they have nice software, but poor physical UI).
- It's ridiculously nice not having to carry a phone AND an iPod. I tried this before with other music phones and I'd been disappointed each time. I was wary about this at first, having such problems with convergence devices before, but so far the iPhone has been a dream in that regard. The iPhone is the first "all in one" device I've used that doesn't suck.
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I don't think I've heard anyone believably state this before, unless they were talking about the weather.
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I'm curious to know how it's working out for you in that respect!
I wonder if there'll be a backup/external battery pack for it. I had one for my ipod before some reject busted my car window to steal it. With the non-replaceable battery, it would be really nice to be able to throw a few AA's into a pack to get an extra few ho
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Battery life has been great for me so far. On the odd week where I don't use the iPod features much, the phone goes for 3-4 days on standby, which is on par with the phone I had previously, though certainly not long lasting phone by any stretch.
I've also had hour-long calls with the SO, and there's no noticeable hit to the battery for that - so I'm convinced the talking power on a full charge is pretty high, though I've certainly never pushed it to the limit (even whilst having 2 hour calls, I'm pretty im
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And the "plug charger" that it comes with is really just a standard Apple charger with a USB power output, which is great, since anything that charges via USB (which is a lot of stuff these days) will just work with it :D
And the uber-bonus is that the charger is standard Apple, meaning the plug detaches and can be swapped out for a longer extension, if you need the length or just don't want the brick to take up space on your wall!
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Yes. I mean, who else right? There is no other GSM carrier here :P (Fido doesn't count, they're owned by Rogers).
If you need any help with getting an iPhone in Canada, let me know. Just keep in mind *right now* is probably a bad time (phones were updated to 1.1.1, there is no unlock for that version yet).
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One of the problems with the Blackberry, or other similarly "mobile web" equipped phones is that their user interface would not allow for a "full" browser even if the machine could run it. Look at your average Motorola/Sony phone - the closest thing a pointing device you have is that little 4-directional joystick on the front, which allows you to skip slowly down a list of links, and that's about it. Zooming? I'd hate to see how that's implemented.
I have a hard time imagining how a full browser can be imp
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Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I don't care a lot about the iPhone and don't plan on buying one anytime soon. I felt the exact same way about the iPod and still do. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't recognize that Apple is pulling off another revolution with the iPhone, akin to what they did with the iPod. The iPhone is revolutionary in the exact same way.
Do you remember "no wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame." That assessment was not wrong, it just failed to account for the market. The iPod was not a lot more featureful than existing MP3 players, or cheaper. What it was was easier to use and learn and provided a smooth easy experience. The iPod was the first portable, digital music player that was easy enough for the average person to rip their CDs, load them onto the device, buy new music online, and play it while jogging. It didn't steal market share from existing MP3 players... it opened up the market to the 95% of people who were still using portable CD players.
The iPhone does the same thing, but for smart phones. It is the first smart phone that is easy enough to use and learn for normal people. It may not have all the features of other smart phones and it may not steal market from RIM's blackberry, but it opens up the market to the 95% of people who just have a regular cell phone and don't even use half of its features because they are too cumbersome. It opens up the market to people who don't even have cell phones but who think having all those features, usable, anywhere they are is worth the price.
Apple's winning strategy is top notch user interface and even more importantly, overall user experience. I'll probably buy an iPhone one of these days, unless someone else catches on that it isn't the look of the device, or how many features are listed as bullet points, or what brand it is and actually delivers a really good smart phone I will actually enjoy using and not be frustrated by.
Shrug (Score:2, Informative)
As it stands a lot of the sites that I visit won't work on the iPhone, because of that lack of support.
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Re:Shrug (Score:4, Insightful)
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Remember, Macromedia created Shockwave/Director as a CDROM/kiosk platform for people who didn't want to learn OS specific programming, when the only comparable thing out there was HyperCard for System 7.
The Web lowered
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Informative)
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I just don't get it. It's not intuitive to me, it's too slow (the whole interface seems to be the UI equiv of William Shatner) and I just don't like it.
Where's the SEARCH in the Address book? Where's the replaceable battery? Where's the GPS? Where's the 3G high-speed? Where's the decent audio jack?
Comeon Apple, you can do better.
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, every time I read this type comment on the iPhone (or any other product of any type on the market) my first obvious thought is "they aren't marketing this thing to you".
Obviously, they have struck a chord with many other people out there. It does have the current 'gee whiz' factor. It has a nifty interface. It works with iTunes, upon which a lot of people have their audio/video content contained. It does have a 'coolness' fad factor at this time, believe it or not, there a LOT of people out there that like to have the latest thing. Heck, read how bad that type thinking is in Japan before criticizing the US on it.
To get it so thin, and other design reasons, there had to be compromises, I'm guessing the non-owner changeable batter is one of them.
And lastly, there are a LOT of people out there with a LOT of disposable income. To many people out there in the US, $300 is pocket change....and they'll often pick up the latest 'toy' to play with without a 2nd thought. To them, I'd guess any cell phone is a disposable phone, and this one is no different in that aspect.
So really...if you don't see the greatness about the iPhone...if you don't 'get it'....then don't worry and quit bitching. It isn't marketed at you, but, why complain if it does catch the attention of other people. Do you complain that much that 'no one needs a corvette' when a yugo would do just find, and and seat far more people?
Not every product is made to appeal to everyone...it seems that would be a dead simple concept.
For the record, I do not have an iPhone. I think they're cool, and if they weren't locked to AT&T, I'd have one myself....but, I don't bitch about all the shortcomings and ask why would anybody in their right minds would buy one. I can easily see why others would. It isn't that difficult.
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"they aren't marketing this thing to you". Obviously, they have struck a chord with many other people out there.
Well, someone has struck a chord, but the question is "Did Apple strike a chord with the public because of their great product design? Or did they just do a stellar job manipulating the media into making a huge fuss over it?" There's no point in arguing this, because there's really no way to know. But I do think it's a fascinating question. As one of those people who simply doesn't find Apple's interfaces intuitive, I can't help but feel the whole thing's a sham, although I freely admit the possibility tha
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1) I am the target. I am an Apple user, with an iPod, MacBook Pro, Mac mini, etc. I have several thousand invested in Apple products. I am a young (under 30) fashion conscious person with a sick amount of disposable income.
2) The interface has not been intuitive to anyone from what I've seen around here! The frikin' genius didn't even realize you can't search for people in the contact list. Well, guess what. I have more than 10 friends. People keep tilting it sidewa
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sorry
but the browser on the iPhone is the first to allow the sytem to get rooted by viewing a page with a bad image.. (not exactly the browsers fault but true) honestly Opera on any WM device is quite nice and works jsut as well or better
if you think the mail on the iPhone is best you are either crazy or citeing personal wants - the fact that the iPhone has IMAP is nice - the fact that it doesn't support fast message retrival sucks expecialy sence it is stuck on edge and no 3g - also the fact that it doe
Gifts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Gifts (Score:5, Funny)
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Irony... (Score:5, Funny)
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this is a problem, exactly, how? (Score:3, Insightful)
if they are supposed to get a weekly steering fee/kickback from SBC/ATT/Cingular = ATT, that's an annoyance, depending on the size of the steering fee/kickback.
what this is saying is that 20% of the geek population won't go with ATT wireless even at the pain of not being able to use the latest wonder toy.
this is not a problem for Apple. this is a shot to the chest for ATT. the single hottest device on the planet, and 20% of customers will risk turning it i
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ATT shareholders? (Score:5, Insightful)
25% of the affluent side of the market is willing to risk bricking a $400 phone to avoid their service.
Re:ATT shareholders? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:ATT shareholders? (Score:5, Insightful)
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17.857% of the market is willing to brick their phones
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25% of the affluent side of the market is willing to risk bricking a $400 phone to avoid their service.
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Or they just aren't American (Score:2)
Or they just aren't American. I know, you guys just forget about us from time to time, it's ok.
But Apple pissing all over 1/4 million affluent and discerning customers... Where is the sense in that?
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It makes you wonder .... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even more interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
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Like to see the figures (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess we'll know when it goes on sale in France (where due to law it must be sold unlocked). I assume they'll be whacking on the appropriate additional cost.
I also wonder why Apple really care? I mean they already signed the deal, and they're making 'reasonable' efforts to uphold their end of it, so why do they care enough about unlockers to bother with a patch aimed at preventing it? Esp. since they're getting more sales out of it....
Re:Like to see the figures (Score:5, Insightful)
In that sense, as an iPhone owner, I care that my system is not exposed to unwanted vulnerabilities just to appease a hacker subset.
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I won't be buying an iPhone (hacked or otherwise), and I have no strong opinions either way about Apple or Cingular. I just find it
I'm not Steve Jobs, but if I was... (Score:3, Interesting)
From a business perspective, I understand the benefits of profit sharing especially when you have a lock on the market with your new product. However, when 18-20% of your market makes the active effort to purchase your product and create a workaround, I firmly believe that Apple could have printed their own money if they opened sales up to all companies that can handle a SIM card.
Being a T-Mobile customer, I wasn't an early adopter for the iPhone. I would have been if I was an AT&T customer, but having looked at it demographically I see this:
There are people who want an iPhone:
-And get it
-But have a different carrier
-And buy the hacked version for 90% of the functionality
-And can't justify the cost
-But won't pay the switching cost.
-But they really want a ZunePhone
.02
My
Summary is incorrect (Score:4, Insightful)
Missing from this oversimplified calculation are iPhones sold but not yet registered with AT&T. This would include (and is potentially a figure large enough to throw off their estimate) iPhones sold to non-registered resellers.
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True, but also missing from this are iPhones sold, registered with AT&T, and then unlocked anyway, perhaps because they were registered before the method for unlocking was known, or becaus
After playing with both... (Score:2)
there's at least 1 in the slashdot crowd (Score:4, Interesting)
As a Canadian, I didn't have much choice. It was unlock it, or wait until Apple and Rogers get their act together.(Rogers is basically the only GSM carrier in canada. Fido is the other one, but it's owned by rogers now)
There's no light at the end of the tunnel for Canadians either. There are 2 hurdles currently slowing down the release of the iphone in Canada:
1) the iPhone name is already trademarked by a voip company called Comwave. I know this because I'm an iphone customer in more ways than one!
2) the data rates in Canada are insanely stupid. I don't even subscribe to data and just rely on wifi around the big cities to fulfill my data needs. The best deal I can get from Rogers is $10 for 10MB. After that, it's $0.03/KB. Yes, you can do the math. The 2nd 10MB will cost you another $300 [shoprogers.com]**. Now you know why I don't subscribe to data.
Going the unlock route might even make sense when indeed it does show up north of the border. You know they'll force you to subscribe to data, and you know they'll want a lock in for 2-3 years. So even if it was available in Canada now, I might still have unlocked an iphone anyhow.
Just my $0.02 CND. (And yes, it's actually worth more than your $USD now
** - Can someone double check for me, I'm still in disbelief at the $300 for the 2nd 10MB
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Good for them (Score:3, Insightful)
Contract locking instead of tech locking (Score:2, Insightful)
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However, people always dream of taking just a small slice of the revenue others are getting with the aid of their box or service. In the dot.com bubble days, it was common to hear telcos thinki
flunked algebra? (Score:2)
christmas gifts, or blended, as previously posted
fell off the truck (stolen merchandise)
people buying extras in case they break
buying for kids or boyfriend/girlfriend but deciding to give to someone else who deserves it more
buying but not really needing it yet (waiting for current contract to expire)
buying
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Fell off the truck: those wouldn't be 'sold', they were shipped and lost (or they are still showing up as 'in-stock'), money has not been received for those items.
People buying extras in case they break: There is a one-year full warranty and for a few bucks you can get a 3-year replacement warranty. Spending $400 just so I wouldn't have to buy the warranty, doesn't make sense for anyone.
Buying for kids/boyfriend/girlfriend: W
Lockin is BEST short-term tactic for penetration! (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen, I'm not going to buy an iPhone any time soon. I'm a grad student and just can't afford it. In fact, by the time I can afford one, every other cell phone manufacturer will have something that copies all its features, although Apple will also keep up and have some better phones, etc. But I think Apple is doing absolutely the right thing with the iPhone, and as annoying as some of their actions have been, they're ultimately going to our benefit as well as theirs. This isn't altruism. They want profit. It's just that they know about user demand, but they presently have their hands tied.
Here's something you need to realize: Apple doesn't like this lockin any more than you do. Oh, sure, they like the kickbacks, no doubt. But the lockin has caused them untold grief from both technical and PR angles. And the KNEW this even before setting out.
So why put us through all this bullshit? Because before there was an iPhone, there was no specific demand for it. As an idea, there was GENERAL demand, but there wasn't a phone from Apple already that you could play with to tell that you really want a phone from Apple. If Apple were to start out with an unlocked phone, they would shoot themselves in the foot--no carrier would pick up their phone, because there wouldn't be enough guaranteed profit in it. As it is, Apple and AT&T have going basically the only way to go about it and not have the iPhone be a total waste of time that tanked before it started. The key factors here are (1) to get users familiar with it and addicted do it, and (2) make significant profit. The only way to do these things is to sell them by the millions. The only way to sell by the millions AN UNPROVEN PRODUCT is to make a deal with a major carrier who will see enough profit in it to help push it on buyers.
In short, what Apple did was SMART. Oh, it wasn't NICE. But it was SMART, because frankly, it's the only way to meet these basic business requirements.
I guarantee you that before iPhone+AT&T, T-Mobile was only passingly interested in it, considering it to be a very risky thing to take on. NOW, they're shitting themselves and are about ready to beg Apple to sell to them. Apple knows this. This is why Apple did what they did. They had to prove themselves, and now everyone wants them. One way to prove yourself is to sell the product successfully. The best way for them to sell the iPhone successfully THE FIRST TIME was to take another route.
Apple is smart and is going to take advantage of their popularity. Once AT&T becomes dependent on the iPhone because they see it as highly profitable, they'll agree to terms more favorable to Apple, which is that Apple will sell to other carriers, and the phones they sell will be unlocked! Apple is not only aware of what the users want; they've ancipated what the users want and are preparing to give us those features. They just can't yet. Apple is fighting tooth and nail with the unlockers, not because they give a shit about unlocking. They WANT unlocking. In fact, they're probably elated that users are able to use the phones on other networks. But they have to put on a good show for AT&T! They have a contract with AT&T that requires them to maintain the lockin. And they MUST maintain that lockin, because they have not YET achieved that critical mass of adoption.
Oh, BTW, if Apple doesn't do as I predict, users will become jaded and lose interest in the iPhone as the competition catches up and DOES provide what people want. I don't think Apple is that blind or stupid. Otherwise, they wouldn't get half their Mac sales from people who've never before owned a Mac.
Re:Lockin is BEST short-term tactic for penetratio (Score:3, Informative)
So tell me what you think what have transpired had Apple simply sold the iPhone already unlocked right from the start without having any contract with any provider at all? Do you think cell carriers would have turned down the signups they get? You can buy imported unlocked phones now and signup with a carrier. How many more iPhones would have sold had it
Traditionally, locked phones are sold by the carrier at a deep discount, or in some cases given away, with cost recovery through term service as the loc
Re:Lockin is BEST short-term tactic for penetratio (Score:5, Insightful)
This goes along with the current lack of dev kit or the iPhone. The launch MUST go smoothly, with minimal problems. Delaying the introduction of a dev kit gives Apple the opportunity to demonstrate how a virgin iPhone works. If a dev kit had been released with the phone, the market would have been flooded with 3rd part apps that would muddy the waters--people won't necessarily be able to distinguish whether a major problem was the fault of Apple or the 3rd party. People are most likely to blame Apple. Once we're used to virgin iPhones, then when 3rd party apps break things, Apple benefits because we automatically blame the app developer instead.
So, back to the locking issue, supporting a single carrier is FAR easier than supporting everyone. For one thing, AT&T were actually willing to work with Apple in order to support interesting features like the visual voice mail. That is, certain features exist ONLY because of the relationship. If Apple had tried to work with every carrier, then some carriers would not provide services that are an integral part of the iPhone experience that is making everyone drool over it. Add to that the complications of activating a phone. With one carrier, it's trivial. With every carrier, just associating the phone with the network requires technical knowledge that many people don't have. Even if the problems were relatively slight, they would have MASSIVE impact on adoption.
So, I maintain that stricking a deal with a carrier (any carrier, but a specific one) was CRITICAL to the market penetration of the iPhone. This gives Apple the control they need over the network. The contract with AT&T goes both ways. If you can't use your unlocked iPhone with T-Mobile's feature X, you're screwed. If you can't get it to work with AT&T, you call customer service, and they fix it for you. Indeed, you're not going to want to have an iPhone with a carrier that Apple doesn't have a contract with. You WILL run into some technical problem along the way, and you're going to want to have a supported device on a supported carrier. The only difference is that all the carriers use the same phone and would let you migrate between them. (Or they better, else Apple will be doing something stupid or inexplicably failing in the market.)
BTW, those who already own iPhones probably hope that, once the AT&T contract is over, Apple will provide a way to unlock your phone. This might or might not happen. Apple's far better than other PC makers about supporting older hardware, but they also engage in tactical obsolescence. A first-gen iPod will work fine with the latest iTunes, but there are no firmware updates for it, so you don't get, for instance, memory as to where you left off when you were last listening to an audiobook or podcast. Every time you patch a device's firmware, you take a risk of breaking it, so there are not just profit but also engineering reasons to not provide an "it ain't broke" update like that, even if the newer iPhones are unlocked.
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...if they were planning on this, why did they sign up for a *five* year deal with AT&T?
If they'd managed to sign a two year deal, AT&T would currently be downplaying the iPhone and trying to push other models to prevent Apple from gaining to much leverage on them. AT&T needs to feel secure that the iPhone will be making them a lot of profit for some time to come. Also, a longer term deal means a better share of the profits for Apple, and Apple needs the iPhone to pay for itself and be proven successful in the long term.
In future, Apple will do whatever will make them the most mone
What about pre-existing customers? (Score:3, Interesting)
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if you don't want another 2 year contract, you would have to unlock the phone to use it on your currrent out-of-contract cell plan with Cingular(ATT).
You won't get the data plan though.
If you just bought the iPhone and activated it, there is a $20 per month charge (for data) to whatever your current plan is.
Using the iPhone without the data plan is kind of sucky, but the choice is yours.
Other 10% (Score:2)
unlocked, or, bricked as a result of trying to unlock it.
Geez he's an idiot (Score:2)
Unlocked iPhones on the ATT network (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyways, when the hacks started coming out, he bought an iPhone and did the hack so that he could use the phone with his corporate AT&T account. AT&T is getting their money, Apple got their money... and yet he's one of those quarter million phones that was bought to be hacked which is apparently bad. I wonder how these people fit into this discussion of hacked iPhones.
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Plus another 30 billion dollers float and a 95% market share for desktop computing....
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Apple's strategy continues to involve the entire widget and its the correct one. Their marketshare is climbing and they're maintaining their profit margins. Under the clones Apple was losing m
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People aren't going to just swap out Windows for Mac OS on their PCs. If it was that simple and easy then Linux would be the #1 OS by now, its friggin free!
Yes, they will, because the software base for Mac OS is there (to some extent). If Apple announced Mac OS for commodity PCs, every software company would produce a version of their software within months. People use applications, not operating systems, which is why Linux is a non-starter. You can't get shrink-wrapped Linux software.
Under the clone
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You can't get much shrink-wrapped Mac OS software either, except at the Apple store and that one half-aisle at the few remaining CompUSA stores. If Apple announced Mac OS for com
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