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iPods to be Used as Flight Data Recorders

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Mar 02, 2007 02:40 AM
from the cockpit-white-boxes dept.
Media Media (Apple) Hardware
udamahan writes "Flight Global reports small aircraft manufacturer LoPresti is introducing a system that uses an iPod as a flight data recorder. The company states that they chose the iPod for its size, low power requirements, and the 'thousands of developers passionate about writing applications for the iPod.' The article notes that data recorders are typically used for maintenance, flight/safety analysis, or, assuming proper protection, crash investigation."
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  • Hmmm, not so sure if I like the sounds of this. I broke an iPod by dropping it about 4 feet, I can only imagine how one will fare after plummeting 30,000...

    • Re:Shocking... (Score:5, Informative)

      by jcr (53032) <[jcr] [at] [mac.com]> on Friday March 02 2007, @02:46AM (#18204352) Journal
      It's not how far it falls, it's how much shock it takes at the end. Doesn't take much high-density foam to trim the impact shock to something the drive can tolerate. Surviving a fire, on the other hand...

      -jcr

      • Re:Shocking... (Score:5, Funny)

        by Konster (252488) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:05AM (#18204442)
        Just throw it out of the plane before it crashes, no need to worry about fire then.

      • Re:Shocking... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by spagetti_code (773137) on Friday March 02 2007, @05:49AM (#18205112)
        My flash drive says its good for 2000Gs ! I've been wondering how to test that. iPod's flash is probably something similar. It doesn't matter if the circuitry survives, just the flash.
        • It may survive the pressure, but will it survive the rest of the plane smashing through it?

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Joelfabulous (1045392)
        Also, see the Otterbox...

        They say the case they sell is crushproof, waterproof, airtight and they make iPod enclosures.

        www.otterbox.com

        I might buy one eventually because I like listening to music when I swim, and I've heard good things about them. Does anyone know if the iPod stops working at something like 35000 feet or so, and would the container somehow negate this effect? I'm pretty clueless about this stuff, but I assume that case would help somewhat...
        • I work at a distributor where we sell both (otterboxes are the low end line of Underwater Kinetics). Pelican and UK cases are better for this application because they're vented. Otter Boxes have a higher crush pressure, but may burst if there's sudden decompression.

          I wouldn't recommend either company's iPod cases for this application either. Go with something like a Pelican 1200 or UK 5010 so that there's LOTS of foam padding. We're not talking about 15 minutes of jogging followed by a drop from 1 meter,
    • And since most "black box" flight recorders are actually bright orange, it makes one wonder what colour they'll choose.

    • Worse still (Score:5, Funny)

      by MountainMan101 (714389) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:08AM (#18204458)
      After an accident there will be many people who need to investigate the flight data. How problematic is it going to be that they will only be able to put the data on five computers?
        • If they use a Zune though, they won't have to find the actual flight data recorder, they'll just have to find another person with a Zune.

          On second thought, it might be easier to search through a pile of charred rubble for a small piece of metal than to find another person with a Zune.

    • Re:Shocking... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Gordonjcp (186804) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:20AM (#18204504) Homepage
      If you can get your single-engine piston aircraft to 30,000 feet, you're doing well. If you ran into problems, you'd have time to phone in the flight data recorder information before you hit the ground...
    • It's not it breaking we have to worry about, its having to install iTunes on the aircraft's computer systems to use the damn thing!
    • If you're fed up with breaking your delicate iPods, why not try adapting a flight data recorder to play MP3s?

  • Hmm (Score:2, Interesting)

    by RFaulder (1016762)
    I would assume that they would be using flash-based iPods rather than HDD models, as I doubt a 1.8" drive could withstand an airplane crash.

  • Wow. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NerveGas (168686)

          "Black Boxes" are made to survive all kinds of unbelievable crashes, impacts, fires, explosions, etc.. Instead, these brainiacs are going to use something that breaks if it drops out of your pocket. Way to go, guys.

    steve

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MrNaz (730548) on Friday March 02 2007, @02:53AM (#18204376) Homepage
    A commercial airliner has crashed killing all 182 passengers on board as well as 8 flight crew. Investigators have recovered 191 flight recorders.

  • Personal Flight Recorder (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tymbow (725036) on Friday March 02 2007, @02:58AM (#18204412)
    I don't think they mean to replace the "blackbox" as most people understand it. It is accurately described in TFA as a Personal Flight Recorder. As a (recreational) pilot I can imagine a number of situations where it would be useful to be able to record basic flight data such as altitidue, speed, ground track etc. to look at after a flight.

    • Re:Personal Flight Recorder (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rvw (755107) on Friday March 02 2007, @06:10AM (#18205190)

      I don't think they mean to replace the "blackbox" as most people understand it. It is accurately described in TFA as a Personal Flight Recorder. As a (recreational) pilot I can imagine a number of situations where it would be useful to be able to record basic flight data such as altitidue, speed, ground track etc. to look at after a flight.
      Another thing is that most small airplanes with propeller engines crash at much lower speeds, leaving the plane a lot more intact than the crashes we see on the news. The ipod would therefor have a much bigger chance of surviving a crash.

  • A whole new meaning... (Score:5, Funny)

    by iliketrash (624051) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:00AM (#18204418)
    This brings a whole new meaning to a "disk crash."

  • And then! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Konster (252488) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:01AM (#18204422)
    Flight International is doing a similar thing, but with the Zune, it crashes before the plane does!

  • Flash drives would be better.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WarwickRyan (780794) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:03AM (#18204432)
    ..as they are virtually indestructable.

    Mine has been dropped, smashed, been through both washing machine and dryer. All with no noticable damage and no dataloss.

    My HDD recorder, on the other hand, was destroyed by a small amount of coca cola :(

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cheater512 (783349)
      My Lifedrive with its tiny compact flash hard drive has had some pretty spectacular falls.

      The most notable would be flying off a lecture room table and hitting the floor two meters below.
      Still works perfectly.
  • They're going to be really disappointed when they find out what happens when you leave an iPod drive spinning all day.
  • So, will they have to be turned off during the takeoff and landing phases of the flight per FAA AC 91.21. Seems like these are the most useful phases of the flight to record.
    I can just image it: "At this time the cabin crew would like to remind the flight crew to turn off the flight recorder. We'll let you know when we reach cruising altitide and it is safe to turn the device back on".

    Before anyone feels the need to inform me that Advisory Circulars are not the same as FAA regulations, I know already!
    • So, will they have to be turned off during the takeoff and landing phases of the flight per FAA AC 91.21. Seems like these are the most useful phases of the flight to record.

      That only applies to IFR flight. Even so, if the operator can determine that the device poses no interference hazard, they can exempt it.

  • Excellent Idea... (Score:5, Informative)

    by T-Bucket (823202) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:11AM (#18204468) Homepage
    Sounds like an awesome idea. Chances are it's going to be used more to record normal flight data than for crash investigation. They're not aiming it at airliners. Most small single-engine piston airplanes are simple enough that the reason for the crash can be easily discerned from the wreckage. There aren't 300 redundant systems to go through. It's usually a case of "Hey, look, that piston is poking out through the engine block." or "Hmm, the 100 hour private pilot ran off the runway into a ditch trying to land in a 30kt crosswind". What it'll really be useful for is stuff like engine monitoring and whatnot. One of these reviewed by your mechanic at annual could make his job a LOT easier...

  • What developers? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ptur (866963) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:21AM (#18204506)

    'thousands of developers passionate about writing applications for the iPod.'
    What developers? At Apple? Or will PortalPlayer *finally* publish its datasheets so others can write code for it too?

  • See (Score:4, Funny)

    by mastershake_phd (1050150) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:26AM (#18204526) Homepage
    Harrison Ford had it right, the Ipod can be used for data storage. Hollywood hacker movies are right again. One of these days someones going to hack the Gibson.....as soon as they build the Gibson.

  • iPod as a model airplane flight recorder (Score:4, Informative)

    by heroine (1220) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:38AM (#18204592) Homepage
    Gumstix is a popular flight data recorder for models because it contains the highest computing power in the smallest space, but it's expensive. So could the cheapest $80 iPod be used as a Gumstix replacement? Can a $50 non-iPod mp3 player be used as an embedded computer or does it have to be iPod?

  • Trouble (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TrappedByMyself (861094) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:41AM (#18204602)
    Without fail, my iPod used to die on me every time I flew. 20 minutes into the flight and BAM the drive goes into wacky mode. The unit locks, heats up, makes a sickening grinding noise as the battery quickly drains.

    I finally fixed it by ripping the thing apart and re-seating the drive cable. But still...

  • What about all the failed harddrives? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Aqua OS X (458522) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:57AM (#18204666) Homepage
    As much as I love my current iPod, I'm well aware that I have had several hard drives fail on me, and I have seen countless "geniuses" hold the tiny bricks up to their ear waiting for a telltale "click...click...click." I hope these guys are using flash-based Nanos, because a number of their bigger siblings die from hanging out in a moving pants pocket. I'm not saying those tiny little hard drives a cursed, I'm simply saying that a 30gig iPod wouldn't be my first choice for something that was supposed to survive a plane crash without needing data recovery service.

  • I can see the headlines now... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hanners1979 (959741) on Friday March 02 2007, @04:15AM (#18204710) Homepage
    "Despite recovering the flight data recorder from the wreckage, the caush of the crash is yet to be established. It has been confirmed however that the pilot was a big Pink Floyd fan"

  • Streaming Blackbox? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nbritton (823086) on Friday March 02 2007, @08:39AM (#18205970)
    Why not just have a live feed of the blackbox data streamed directly to the FAA?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by TubeSteak (669689)

      Why not just have a live feed of the blackbox data streamed directly to the FAA?

      I suspect you don't know any better, which is why you asked the question.
      The short answer is that it would not be technologically feasible.

      The long answer:
      1. Each stream of data is going to need its own radio channel/cell connection/other
      2. The FAA is going to have to buy gobs of storage across the country & pay for it all to be managed
      3. Every private pilot is going to have to buy a new avionics package

      That's just off the t

  • This wil never work (Score:5, Funny)

    by poot_rootbeer (188613) on Friday March 02 2007, @09:17AM (#18206218)

    Won't the iPod disrupt the plane's flight electronics and CAUSE crashes, though? That's why the flight attendants always remind us that the use of portable electronic devices during takeoff and landing is forbidden, right?
  • I can see the news report now:
    "NTSB crash investigators have been baffled as to the cause of the private plane crash that killed Steve Jobs and four others last week, but today they made a major breakthrough in their investigation. The crash investigators were initially stymied by the sequence of events leading up to the crash. Apparently, the initial confusion was resolved once they discovered the Crash.Events playback was set to shuffle."

    "In a related story, Conspiracy therorists are not buying the explanation. They say that they have proof that the flight data recorder shows the plane was in level flight after having slammed into the Mountain. They insist that this was a plot financed by former Microsoft President Bill Gates to 'send a message' that Microsoft is not to be trifled with."

    "Mr Gates was unavailable for comment as he was attending a conference on Aids in Africa."

    "To counter these claims, the NTSB has offered to share crash evidence with the general public, just as soon as they can figure out how to bypass the DRM features without running afoul of the DMCA."
    • The crash investigators need to know what kind of music the pilot likes you know.
      If the pilot dies then the iPod will be crucial in getting this information.

    • Re:Without certification (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AlphaOne (209575) on Friday March 02 2007, @03:34AM (#18204572)
      can you hook this thing into the avionics?

      On experimental aircraft, yes. On certified aircraft, no.

      I'm not sure what value would be gained, though... about the best that could be recorded is OBS position and CDI deflection, maybe turn rate and bank angle if the turn coordinator/artificial horizon can provide feedback.

      If the aircraft has a GPS (big if), I guess you could record position and velocity data.

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