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Kindle Versus The iPhone
Posted by
Zonk
on Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:45 PM
from the xtc-vs.-adam-ant dept.
from the xtc-vs.-adam-ant dept.
Bernie Campbell writes "Forbes takes a look at the recently announced Kindle ebook from Amazon, and considers the possibility that Apple may have beaten them to the punch. 'Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs has a not-so-secret weapon when it comes time to load up the iPhone with content: Google ... Google's Book Search project has already pumped much of the world's printed matter into Google's servers. Downloads of classic titles, such as Bleak House, can already be had for free. Mix Apple's iTunes content distribution smarts with Google's vast storehouse of content, and you'll have an instant competitor to Kindle -- one with a touch interface and the ability to play movies and music, too.'
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Hardware: Electronic Paper's Past and Future 154 comments
Iddo Genuth sends us to TFOT for his extended series of interviews around the question of how electronic paper will change our lives in the next few years. The article leads off with the "father of e-paper," Nick Sheridon, who came up with the idea almost 35 years ago at Xerox PARC, and goes on to explore how e-paper may evolve past its current incarnations in the likes of the Sony Reader.
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News: Amazon's Ebook The Future of Reading? 354 comments
theodp writes "With a seven-page cover story on The Future of Reading, Newsweek confirms all those rumors of Amazon's imminent introduction an affordable ebook. Kindle, which is named to evoke the crackling ignition of knowledge, has the dimensions of a paperback, weighs 10.3 oz., and uses E Ink technology on a 6-inch screen powered by a battery that gets up to 30 hours from a 2-hour charge. Kindle's real breakthrough is its EVDO-like wireless connectivity, which allows it to work anywhere, not just at Wi-Fi hotspots. More than 88,000 titles will be on sale at the Kindle store at launch, with NYT best sellers priced at $9.99."
Submission: Kindle Versus The iPhone by Anonymous Coward
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Hardware: Amazon's Kindle Sells Out In 5.5 Hours 417 comments
necro81 writes "As reported on Engadget, Amazon's Kindle e-book reader has sold out. Charlie Rose's interview with Jeff Bezos reveals that the Kindle sold out within just 5-1/2 hours of going on sale. Amazon hasn't revealed how many it had in stock at launch, so it may just be that they didn't anticipate early demand. A check of the Kindle's product page shows that more will be rolling out starting December 3rd." Wired also has a brief head-to-head of the more prominent ebook readers and PCWorld has a review of the new gadget from Amazon.
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Entertainment: Hands-On With The Kindle 365 comments
Amazon's Kindle e-book may have sold out in record time, but there's still a lot of discussion about the device's merits. Neil Gaiman likes it well enough, but it's sent Robert Scoble into a fit of apoplectic rage. For a real, meaty, hands-on look at the way the device operates in everyday life, Gamers With Jobs writer Julian Murdoch has a slice of life with the Kindle. He takes us through his Thanksgiving holiday weekend with the device, noting the quirks (good and bad) that cropped up with Amazon's new toy. "Short of reading in the tub, the Kindle is easier to read in more places, positions, and situations than a physical book ... But it's far from perfect. It is expensive. The cover, which I find completely necessary, is in desperate need of more secure attachment (Velcro works great). The book selection is less-than-perfect, although I imagine this will improve with every passing day. And Amazon needs marketing help. The Kindle's launch reeked of 'get it out fast.' The big-picture marketing efforts (like video demonstrations and blurbs from authors) were great, but simple things like communicating how freakin' easy it is to get non-Amazon content on to the device, for free, remain horribly misunderstood."
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News: The Cult of Kindle 283 comments
DaMan writes "ZDNet's Hardware 2.0 blog is pondering the Kindle this week. There have been many attempts at an ebook reader in the past; why does Amazon think it can do any better? Given the high cost and DRM issues, will cachet be enough to win them financial success? Will the 'Cult of Kindle' help guarantee Amazon's success in the ebook reader market? 'A group of people willing to give it a five star rating just because someone else didn't, willing to back up every design, engineering and marketing decision that Amazon made, willing to defend the Kindle with their last dying breath. The Kindle doesn't cost money, it saves money. That 0.75 second flash as the pages turn isn't a downside because it gives you an opportunity to take in the previous page. It doesn't harm your eyes, in fact, it fixes them. Ergonomic issues that other reviewers have bought up are dismissed by the Cult of Kindle as flaws with the reviewer, not the device. The Kindle is perfect, and the Kindle 2.0 will be a little more perfect.'"
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No Thanks (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No Thanks (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe the Kindle was also going to be the size of a standard paperback book. That means its screen size is going to be a lot more functional for reading than the relatively small size of the iPhone screen.
When will people get over the iPhone already? Really, it's just a phone.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Mods: Read this: If you are the person who modded the above Troll, I suggest you go and read the moderator guidelines. If you think its still justified, how about making a comment as to why you think it still deserves -1, Troll.
I fuckin hope I get to meta-mod the parents comment.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Big things that are missing, though? GPS. High speed internet. Replaceable SIM card. Replaceable battery. Actual "phone off" mode (where you can travel and use the other features without it phoning home constantly).
I have a phone (a helio ocean) that delivers most of the same functionality, cost half as much, and has several features the iPhone lacks (though it is also prov
Re:No Thanks (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:No Thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
The attraction of the iPhone is that it isn't just a phone. I don't have one, and probably won't get one for some time, but there are times--like when I'm traveling--that I would prefer to have one device that fulfills the functions of my Palm, my phone, and my video iPod all at once. The fact that this device does all this and more, including what I believe is a best-of-breed palmtop web access interface, puts it well outside the "just a phone" category.
But the real point here is not that it's the best thing ever. It's not. The point is that people only have (a) so much money, and (b) so much patience and space for carrying around gadgets. If people didn't want to carry a phone, a palm and an iPod, and consolidated them into an iPhone, then they aren't likely to want to add a new device for reading purposes unless there is something really revolutionary about the device. For someone who has to read on a portable device for a living, I can see them getting this and using it. If it were really cheap, I could see it being a popular gift. If the interface were sleek and simple, maybe it would be successful. But unfortunately, it's not all that awesome, and it's not cheap. I'd be very surprised if it gained more than a tiny niche audience.
People don't want one more thing to sync, to charge, to update, to carry, to protect. The iPhone is not the best at each thing that it does. However, it's good enough at a lot of things, including, potentially, at being an e-reader, that it's probably going to be tough for an expensive, single-function device to compete with it without some major advances.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's why I have a Treo, and have had it for years. It can do all the things you mentioned--web browsing, email, MP3 player, video player. In the end, what I value is the phone, the Palm aspect (its calendar, etc.), and I occasionally use the web browsing and email. I used the video player and MP3 player to see that it worked. Then I was done with that. I usually use an Mp3 player when I'm biking and have the MP3 p
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Treo 650 with the standard Blazer browser.
I can't find a screenshot of the browser, except for this page [palm.com], which looks like ass. The fact that they don't show a real web page in their advertisement makes me think that the pages don't look exactly like a desktop browser.
Never going to happen, not even with an iPhone, unless you're prepared to carry around a 12" monitor with you. [...] But I'm not going to do any serious browsing on anything with a screen size of the Treo or iPhone.
That's what I'm te
Re:No Thanks (Score:5, Informative)
I feel the need to point out that there's a lot of FUD in the original article as well. I think the Forbes editors might have some AAPL stock perhaps?
From TFA:No, they already said there was no monthly fee for wireless access.Actually, you can download eBooks in text or mobi format for free from the Kindle, so anything on Google book search should be free for the taking. Also, even though you have to subscribe to blogs if you want digital delivery of the content for offline reading, you can still browse to any blog or website and read it right from your Kindle. The only disadvantage: You have to use the next/previous page buttons to scroll up and down the web page. It's a limitation of the e-Ink technology, because you obviously can't smoothly scroll a page with a scroll bar that requires 1 second to update it's screen.
There is a lot of FUD out there about the Kindle, but I think it's going to be pretty amazing. Can you imagine having every O'Reilly book ever made on the thing, and the ability to do full text search/grep capability through your entire library of technical books? That alone is a killer app.
Parent
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
From an avid reader (Score:4, Insightful)
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I do understand the your point the price is way to expensive, and they generally have problems with various formats. For $400 I expect touch screen, and possibly black and white web surfing.
The advantage though is that with e-ink the display is absolutely easy on the eyes to read. If Sony would only support more than just Windows I would break down and grab one.
They compete in the same market... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to mention that the iPhone display is smaller and lower resolution.
And that Amazon already has a lot of pull with book publishers.
I'd buy a Kindle if I knew I could get all my college books on it.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If you also forget that the Kindle will have similar monthly access fees ($1.99/mo for RSS or more for books which would then have no printing fees and almost no distribution fees) and it looks like something from 1989. Not only that but what else does it do? Not much compared to any mobile device out there.
I'll stick with reading Foo on my
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You know, I've been reading Dune -- a copy printed in 1997 that I picked up at a used book store. It looked brand-new and had no creases in the spine. I would assume it had never been read. I started reading it (I r
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
re: monthly fees, etc. (Score:4, Insightful)
Battery life becomes sort of a non-issue too when you think about it practically. Who is going to read a Kindle for anywhere near the 30 hours of promised battery life, non-stop? If you just recharge your device each night before going to bed, either Kindle or iPod touch/iPhone will get you through hours of reading during the day with no problem.
The Apple alternatives win out in size/portability too. Sure, the screen is smaller - but it's bright and easily readable. I have the iPhone (currently hacked with 3rd. party apps), and I've already read a book on it using a free e-reader application on it. It's quite usable, and nice because it's always with me. (I'm already going to carry my cellphone all day long, on my belt-clip, so I don't miss calls. It's nice to be able to grab it and read a few pages of a book I'm working on reading whenever I get a few free minutes here and there. I doubt I'd be lugging a book-sized, $400 Kindle with me everywhere I went too, just to accomplish the same thing.)
I do agree the Kindle could find a great niche market in colleges/universities. It'd sure beat a book-bag full of textbooks. But how durable is it going to be? Can you trust it to work reliably and not develop stuck buttons, a cracked screen, etc. etc. ?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
while i find the instant download from amazon very very very nice - and i would love to buy and use one and to support this - i do NOT want to have to rebuy my current 300+ book lib to be able to read them on this thing.
also the price is understandable but..
100 = i would already own one
200 = i would have grumb
Re:They compete in the same market... (Score:5, Insightful)
When some big company figures out that college textbooks are going to be the first big market for ebooks, I'm going to invest in them.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They don't charge more for books via Kindle than on paper. The $9.99 is for expensive books (just-released, hardcover-only, bestsellers, etc); cheaper books are... well, cheaper.
Not that $9.99 is the absolute price ceiling (I did a bit of spot-checking and technical books were significantly more expensive, though still below the price of hardcopy). Frankly, I'd be happier if I could get technical books for the Kindle via so
The iPod has e-paper? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The iPod has e-paper? (Score:4, Insightful)
Whoops.
Parent
I'll start buying ebooks ... (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like none of the people who design ebook systems have ever been in a used book store or a library, or have ever lent a favorite book to a friend.
Re:I'll start buying ebooks ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure they have. And their first thought about it was "this must be stopped".
I didn't think RMS's "Right to Read" was actually being interpreted as a business plan.
Parent
Are you kidding me? (Score:4, Informative)
Trying to imagine (Score:5, Funny)
Don't understand the Kindle at all... for the... (Score:3, Insightful)
On Amazon's side I get it. Locked in customers, paying a premium for a device they are already eating the entire hardware cost on. The Kindle is a pure Nintendo play (which is great for a business). Profit on hardware, profit on software, even profit on content the user already owns.
On the consumer side though, what is the compelling sell through? E-Ink? Perhaps except the Libre has grown up and is now in generation three on US/Japanese shores and Sony actually finally learned from their mistakes and made putting user generated/owned content on the device an easy process. The Kindle doesn't even compare well with the more expensive offerings as they are all colour and offer full PDF viewing.
How did this thing get to market? The hardware is silly it is so outdated with regards to style. The software is crippled from the go. Believe it or not heavy users of books *are* price conscious. They will not appreciate being taken for a ride. This whole package reads like some silly dot.com plan and given that Amazon says they have spent three years on it, shows how much they just don't get it. This thing has sat insulated inside Amazon as some hidden away project without regards to the changing market. The Kindle would have been *great* three years okay... questionable at this time last year, but now? Hubris.
I do look forward to picking one up next year though for $80 with some reverse engineered software though.
Re:Don't understand the Kindle at all... for the.. (Score:3, Insightful)
ebook readers are literally hardware. they are made with a tough plastic case, and an unbendable plastic screen that smudges easily. these materials conduct heat away from your hands quickly. some have pointy styluses.
this is not something that you want near you when taking a bath, reading in bed, or cuddled up on the sofa.
contrast that with a book, even a hardcover: the pages are soft and bendable. you can write on them, if you want. the cover materials are m
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I beg to differ. There were numerous easy to use tools available for ripping CDs long before iTunes.
I know people who installed iTunes solely for the purpose of ripping their CD collection, because that process was too hard with the software that came with their mp3 player. Heck, two people came over to my place to rip their collection on my mac, because they could not figure out how on their own system. "Easy to use" is relative, and I'm not sure you're considering it as it applies to the general populace instead of geeks.
It was the full integration from top to bottom with purchasing albums that put it over the top.
It was the full experience, but not so much for purchasing. Last time I saw a
Amazon are fools (Score:3, Interesting)
It's just a white Newton! (Score:2, Informative)
The E-Ink Fallacy (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's a fallacy, because we are already used to carrying one or two devices around with us that we have to recharge: a small mobile device and a larger laptop-sized device. In both cases, the trends are clear: people want longer battery life and screens that work under sunlight. The market will satisfy these trends. And these devices won't be limited by DRM or strange wireless plans. The iPhone or N800 form factor does indeed support eBook like reading. And, as noted, since we use these devices constantly, we're used to making sure that they are charged.
That is not to say that there won't be a niche for e-ink devices, but I am very doubtful that the Kindle can kindle much anything. It's an interesting gadget, and at $150 or so it might have a sizable market -- but not at $400.
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And is cheaper, too (Score:2)
Love the Kindle but... (Score:3, Interesting)
This, or the device should be at an aggressively subsidized price, made up from sales of content.
I like the device, and love the business model independently of the price point though.
Apple Didn't, But Nokia Did (Score:3, Insightful)
iPhone versus Sony Reader (Score:5, Informative)
After a week, my wife "stole" my Sony Reader, and uses it much more than the iPhone. It's much easier to read a full page of text on the 6" screen with the higher resolution. And, it's easier to use one-handed, because there are dedicated buttons to flip through pages.
Reading a website on the iPhone reminds me of the bad early days of HTML when people would put large pages inside a scrollable frame, and you were 'looking through a port hole' to see the entire page.
The other nice thing is that she could read continuously for eight hours. The iPhone, with its backlight, can't do that.
Apple buying up rights to millions of books... (Score:3, Informative)
It does support common document formats! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Goog (Score:5, Insightful)
- A 3 inch screen that involves constant movement to see more than one paragraph at "text book" level font sizes
- A slow EDGE connection (at least an e-Book can cache the entire thing easily).
- Lousy bookmark system.
- Poor back & forth or history functionality.
The iPhone MAY one day compete with these other technologies, but to insist right now that it's everything and a bag of chips is just plain naive.
Parent
Re:Goog (Score:4, Insightful)
You think if Apple and Google decided to make this available as a feature with GBS that the publishers wouldn't be screaming blue murder (and, in my opinion, rightly so)?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When I hear a suggestion which seems totally ridiculous, I try to reexamine it to see if there may be a more likely interpretation. The idea that Google would start to distribute entire copyright works, on a large scale, for profit and without a license is utterly ridiculous.
I think the point was that it wouldn't take much for Google to start an e-book selling service because they already have most of the data in a suitable format, not that they would consider selling e-books in violation of copyright.
Re:Goog (Score:5, Insightful)
And as much as 'all-in-one' devices can be nice, sometimes you just make 'all' features suffer by cramming them into 'one' device. I think this is one of those cases; an eBook reader is meant to replace a book, which means it has different requirements (in terms of readability, power-use and form-factor). Trying to cram the functionality into other devices means the functionality suffers.
Parent
iPaq / iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
All-in-all, it was just a little paperback on which you turned pages a bit more often.
Move into the future, and we have the iPhone, with a screen resolution that
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
2) The idea is that you'll sync through iTunes, via USB. The iPhone has quite a bit of storage space, way more than you need for an ebook.
3) Software. There would be a new app for e-books.
4) Ditto.
Nobody is saying that the iPhone, exactly as it is now, is a great ebook. But the hardware is pretty good and Apple could
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who needs a paper backup when you can always re-download if something happens? (Isn't the absence of paper rather the whole *point*?)
Yeah, that worked really well in the past [bbc.co.uk]. I don't really expect that Kindle is going to work out, so I have to wonder if the Kindle store will continue. At least with Kindle, you can store your purchases externally, and there's no indication that the device checks in with Amazon before it lets you read, but the "delete any time, since you can just re-download" line is asking for trouble if they ever stop supporting the service.
Orson Scott Card (which is my current reading material).
Man, if it was a bit cheaper, and the Ender saga was on there, I might buy o