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Apple's Leopard Will Exclude 800MHz G4 Processors

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon Sep 24, 2007 02:57 PM
from the older-tech-gets-forked dept.
goombah99 writes "According to AppleInsider, Apple is about to announce that Leopard will not support 800 MHz G4 PowerPC processors. Previously developers had been told that it would require at least an 800 MHz G4. But AppleInsider alleges only 867 MHz G4s and higher will now be supported because of speed issues, and testers have been told that the new OS 'cannot be installed' on lesser machines. This cutoff in minimum requirements means that all those original iMac flat screens and Titanium PowerBooks are now forked to the Tiger (10.4) Update Path."
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  • by Kelson (129150) * on Monday September 24 2007, @03:00PM (#20733751) Homepage Journal

    The article is specifically about 800MHz and slower G4s being excluded:

    Instead, Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

    Though seemingly mild, the 67MHz increase will exclude a handful of Mac system, namely the 800MHz PowerBook G4 (Titanium), 800MHz PowerMac G4 (Quicksilver), 800MHz iMac G4, 800MHz iBook G4, and 800MHz eMac.

    Nowhere does the article claim that Leopard will be G5 & Intel only.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Actually the article summary has been misled/mistaken.. since the Titanium Powerbooks actually went to 1GHz before being discontinued.
  • Incorrect Summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by SpottedKuh (855161) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:01PM (#20733783)

    Actually, AppleInsider said that 800 MHz G4 processors may not be supported. 867 MHz or greater G4 processors would still be usable. From TFA:

    Instead, Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor."
    OS 10.6, it is speculated, may not support PPC processors (so, we're talking 2009 here?)
          • The box for NT4 Workstation said 33MHz CPU and 12MB RAM.

            Yup, but you did end up with the most stable platform ever for running Notepad.

  • by thatskinnyguy (1129515) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:05PM (#20733839)

    two-flavors of the apple OS in widespread use, it's...
    There! I can sleep better tonight knowing some wrong in the word has been righted!
  • Apple: RECONSIDER (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Eugenia Loli (250395) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:05PM (#20733845) Homepage Journal
    800 Mhz Macs should be included on Leopard's compatibility list IMO. We are talking about machines that were released just 4 years ago, and we should not forget that Mac users take pride on their computers and they keep them for a long time. There is not a real technical limitation why QuartzExtreme-compatible, firewire-compatible etc Macs should not be supported, other than Apple wanting more money from you and less money spending on testing with these systems.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I am fairly sure the Pre 800mhz Macs are not QuartzExtreme-compatible. I know my 667mhz powerbook wasn't I don't think Other G4s at that time were either. 4 years is a good run for a PC. And you are not forced to upgrade to the New OS. Software will be available for the old OS for years.
      • Re:Apple: RECONSIDER (Score:5, Informative)

        by MojoStan (776183) on Monday September 24 2007, @08:00PM (#20737185)

        I am fairly sure the Pre 800mhz Macs are not QuartzExtreme-compatible.
        I'm assuming you meant to include 800MHz Macs in the "not QuartzExtreme-compatible" group, but there are many "800MHz and under" Macs that are QE-compatible [apple.com]:

        4 years is a good run for a PC. And you are not forced to upgrade to the New OS. Software will be available for the old OS for years.
        That's three and a half years for some iBooks and eMacs, but I agree with your point (it will be a good run). However, although software will be available for years, OS X Tiger will stop receiving security updates when OS X 10.6 is released (if Apple continues its undefined OS lifecycle).
  • RTFA! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kristoph (242780) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:10PM (#20733909)
    The article does not in any way resemble the summary. Do the slashdot editors RTFA!

    The text in the article reads ....

    Leopard will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

    ]{
  • by damn_registrars (1103043) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:11PM (#20733943) Journal

    Leopards advances came in the form of either under-the-hood changes (e.g. 64 bits) or added capabilities (e.g. time machine)


    And my OS still hasn't even perfected its flux capacitor relay yet. Egads, skunked by apple yet again.
  • by noewun (591275) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:15PM (#20734013) Journal
    It's not real until Apple says it.
  • by Dekortage (697532) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:24PM (#20734133) Homepage

    There's a difference between stated requirements and what you can actually get to work. Users of the open-source XPostFacto [macsales.com] have known this for years. Can't run OS 10.3 on that old beige G3 tower? Sure you can! Maybe even 10.4.

    Nonetheless, even 10.4.x is supported on the 400mhz PowerBook G3 (the version with a bronze keyboard and FireWire). It is not the speediest thing ever, but for email, Word/PowerPoint, and most web browsing, it's just fine. My main reason to consider replacing it: after seven years of use, the backlighting is starting to fade. But those dual battery bays are hard to give up.

    • by TJamieson (218336) on Monday September 24 2007, @06:41PM (#20736607)
      I suspect this requirements push is again solely due to video cards. The 800 MHz iMac G4 had a GeForce2MX; yikes. The first major push was to kill the G3 so OpenGL could use vector libraries, now they probably want to ensure the equivalent of 'DirectX 8+' for Leopard. So in theory, if you have a GeForce 5xxx in an 800 MHz G4 tower, you should still be able to run Leopard.
  • by Manfesto (865869) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:32PM (#20734257)
    I can confirm that an 800MHz G4 is all that is required to install Leopard (the developer preview). A staff member in my department did it with an 800MHz Windtunnel PowerMac - and more interestingly, he used target disk to install Leopard on his unsupported 667MHz TiBook (on which the installer refused to run because it didn't meet the minimum requirements). Here is his entire story. http://forum.oscr.arizona.edu/showthread.php?t=4557 [arizona.edu]
  • Why don't these Slashdot posts automatically have the word "rumor" in the headline? Seriously. As is, the headline is totally misleading, which leads to arguments that treat the discussion as if it is fact. Sure, Apple may incorporate these requirements into Leopard, but until then we're just putting out hot air about a rumor.
  • Odd. (Score:4, Funny)

    by mattgreen (701203) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:35PM (#20734309)
    I thought every new release of OS X runs faster than the previous one?
  • by foo fighter (151863) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:47PM (#20734455) Homepage
    Whenever I see a post about running Linux (or any non-OS X os) on Apple hardware I also see a post asking what is the point when OS X is the best UNIX available on the desktop.

    Here is the point. When Gnome or KDE copies features from OS X 10.6 or greater, owners of this newly excluded hardware will be able to get in on the fun as well.
  • I had a power mac 7300 way back in the day. It used a 604e motorola chip at 180 Mhz. The 7300 also had an upgrade card slot which allowed me to pop in a G3 card eventually and upgrade my processor. It also had 4 DIMM slots for lots of extra memory capacity.

    When the 7300 came out, it cost around $1200. I bought it used for $500. The card cost me $300, memory was $50-$100, plus a $150 upgraded video card when it became available. I got about 7 years use out of that machine for the money invested.

    A midrange iMac now costs twice as much, and has fewer upgrade paths than previous Macs. The white iMacs had options for 128 and 256 mb video cards but you could only buy them in that flavor, you could not upgrade them later.

    To get a mac with upgrade options, you have to go with the $2500+ Mac pros. I bought a G4 1ghz about 4 years ago. I have no option to upgrade to a G5, and obviously can't upgrade to an intel. I can do surfing and wordprocessing on it just fine, but I can't play any new games on it, and the latest graphics programs and compression codecs for movies will drag to a crawl unless all other programs are shut down.

    Now, the summary is utter crap. In fact, they are upping the requirement from 800 mhz to 867 mhz G4, and not ending it all together. However, this chops off 6 popular lines of Macs from being upgraded. My point is, however, upgrade paths are slowly getting shorter and shorter, and small changes like this are exposing that problem. The problem isn't the fact that Apple is upping the minimum requirements, it's the fact that without shelling out money for an entirely new computer, it's getting harder and harder to meet the minimum requirements. These 800 mhz machines were new just 4 years ago, and you can't pop in a $200 upgrade to get more life out of them.

    I love Apple's products, and I'm still not considering a PC, but as a consumer, I want to be clear that keeping up with Apple is becoming more and more expensive, and there are no signs that Steve really cares (why should he, he's a CEO and his company is making gobs of money). I'm not comparing Macs to PCs, I'm comparing Macs to history costs of other Macs. The inflationary curve is out of control. At this rate will be back to the $10,000 price tag the Mac 2 had back in 1986 somewhere in 2015.
  • for sale (Score:4, Funny)

    by pak9rabid (1011935) on Monday September 24 2007, @04:12PM (#20734809)
    Sweet, so I guess there'll be a lot more G4's for sale on craigslist that I can experiment w/Linux on =D.
    • Re:Whoopee doo (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Space cowboy (13680) * on Monday September 24 2007, @03:05PM (#20733837) Journal
      Right, because complete 64-bit support, a *useable* *automatic* backup utility, the new developer tools, Objective-C 2.0, core-animation, a complete new interface & Finder, things like Xray (useable DTrace) mean nothing - and that's just off the top of my head!

      You can't please all the people all the time, but to pretend it's "Apple's Vista" when it's not even out yet is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard.

      Simon.
      • for Developers (Score:5, Interesting)

        by OrangeTide (124937) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:26PM (#20734159) Homepage Journal
        I feel that most of the features in Leopard are of interest to developers. And that we'll see mainly developers and new mac buyers going for Leopard. If you have a Tiger-based G3/G4 mac right now and you're happy with it, I think you'll stay happy with it for a long time. But we'll see how my prediction holds when there is a 10.6 after Leopard and it doesn't support G3/G4 either.

        If it becomes a problem it is possible for Apple to change their mind in the middle of the 10.5 upgrade path and allow G3/G4 installs, like if they came up with some solutions to speed issues. Remeber Tiger 10.4.0 to 10.4.3 didn't support x86, but 10.4.4 and later does.

        If Leopard becomes some amazing new must-have I will just have to buy a new Mac Mini, and turn my old G4 Mac Mini into a media player or a Linux-based home router. Not a huge deal to me since my G3's and G4's aren't gaming machines and I don't need to upgrade to a machine capable of gaming. (well I play games, but they would run on just about any system)
        • Re:for Developers (Score:5, Interesting)

          by DECS (891519) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:47PM (#20734463) Homepage Journal
          Is that because you're not using it yet? I see a lot of people complaining about Leopard, but I've been using it since June, and I can't imagine going back.

          Leopard is as great of a jump from Tiger as Tiger was from Panther. Nice refinements everywhere, significant new apps and features like Spaces/Time Machine, major improvements to Mail/iCal/Safari/Quicktime/iChat, lots of major improvements under the hood that will propel third party development, including Core Animation.

          Vista is XP with a new theme, plus DRM support for the dying HD-DVD, and a bolted on version of Apple's Quartz (WPF) and Cocoa (.Net).

          Leopard makes modern machines more usable. Trying to use it on a sub-800 Mhz G4 (which would include Powerbooks and iMacs prior to 2002, or PowerMacs from before 2001) might be unreasonable. Those machines are now over a half decade old. PCs from 2001 would barely run XP, let alone Vista.

          The summary is wrong - it confuses "less than 800 MHz G4s" with "non G5s." There are more than a half decade of G4 Macs that will run Leopard.

          Leopard, Vista and the iPhone OS X Architecture [roughlydrafted.com]
                • Re:for Developers (Score:4, Interesting)

                  by DECS (891519) on Tuesday September 25 2007, @02:40AM (#20739943) Homepage Journal
                  Yes there are driver issues with Vista, but the biggest complaints I see are from users who don't see the value of slowing down everything in order to deliver the Aero glass effects. Vista delivers Microsoft's first version of WPF, which is similar to Mac OS X's first version of Quartz back in 2001: entirely new and not entirely optimized. The only difference it that graphics compositing isn't novel in 2007.

                  When WGA crashed and turned off the features of the few Vista users who were trying to be happy with their purchase, it had the side effect of revealing that Vista's premium features were eating up significant resources, and simply turning them off made the system far more usable.

                  WGA the Dog: Microsoft's DRM Failure Earns Zoon Nomination [roughlydrafted.com]
                  One disadvantage to Microsoft's Windows Genuine Advantage DRM program--which forces Windows users to verify their software as "not-stolen" in order to receive certain patches and updates, including Internet Explorer 7--is that Microsoft's WGA server is not as highly reliable as Microsoft likes to advertise.
    • by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Monday September 24 2007, @03:06PM (#20733857) Homepage

      I'll probably get modded to hell and back, but Leopard is rapidly becoming Apple's version of Vista.

      I haven't used Leopard enough to know whether it's a step backwards for OSX and has no useful new features. However, even if that's the case, at least they only wasted 2 years making it.

      • I don't think it's that bad. Two years isn't five, and Apple didn't promise a whole lot of stuff that ended up getting ripped out at the 11th hour (*cough* WinFS *cough*) because they couldn't figure out how to make it work. Also Apple didn't have to "start all over again" with a different kernel because the current Tiger one wasn't going to work. Apple has been making incremental advances without promising any HUGE! AMAZING! MUST-HAVE! features (which is good because Leopard's new feature set doesn't reall
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      The backup system is definitely a step forward, but the interface "improvements" are not. Hell, even MacWorld thought that they were 'too pretty' to be useful in its review, and MacWorld usually hangs on Apple's every word.

      The number of Apple updates that have actually been steps backwards in terms of features lately has been disappointing. Personally I think iTunes hit a high water mark with version 6.0.4 or 6.0.5 and went downhill from there; everything since then has been crappier interfaces and addition
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        What features have been cut out of iTunes in version 7?
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            Not everyone does nothing but share music all day... for me, the following features of iTunes 7 are easily more worthwhile than better sharing (since there is currently only one iTunes-capable computer on my network anyway):

            - "Grouping" tag
            - The extensive array of sorting tags
            - Video handling features
            - Podcast managing features
            - Album (and, I suppose, the useless Cover Flow) view
            - Additional smart playlist criteria
            - and the big one: GAPLESS PLAYBACK. Did I say GAPLESS PLAYBACK? I hated iTunes until

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        Ye olde alttabbing between multiple windows paradigm is pretty annoying and slow with too many windows.

        Hint: alt-tab then you can run the mouse over the icons

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 24 2007, @03:06PM (#20733849)

      Up until Panther, each version of OSX ran faster than the previous one. But Tiger is definitely slower than Panther. Looks like Leopard will continue the trend.
      If they keep up this trend they will have to call the next release "Garfield"...

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Excuse me, but what machine are you running your Tiger on? There is a wide spread agreement that Tiger is faster than Panther (but you need 512mb+ of ram)

      When I installed Tiger on my 1ghz Titanium PowerBook it feelt like getting a whole new machine. I had 1gig ram. Note that you need a fresh install to gain all the speedbenefits from Tiger, upgrading from Panther will limit the performance a tad.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      How about they let the user decide what's "too slow"? I'm perfectly content with the speed of my 500MHz iBook G3 running Panther, so what makes them so sure I won't be happy running Leopard on my dual 533MHz G4 PowerMac?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        That's not the Steve Jobs way.

        He has an expectation for the experience, if the experience isn't within what he deems acceptable, it isn't allowed.

        There are pros and cons of this.

        Biggest Pro: End user experiences are much more consistent.
        Biggest Con: Like you said. The end user doesn't get to decide for themselves.
    • by nbritton (823086) on Monday September 24 2007, @03:21PM (#20734101)
      "Up until Panther, each version of OSX ran faster than the previous one. But Tiger is definitely slower than Panther. Looks like Leopard will continue the trend."

      So why is Photoshop faster on Leopard then on Tiger? As an ADC member I have access to all the seeds and I can tell you without a doubt that Leopard IS faster then Tiger.
      • by dr00g911 (531736) on Monday September 24 2007, @07:13PM (#20736873)

        "Up until Panther, each version of OSX ran faster than the previous one. But Tiger is definitely slower than Panther. Looks like Leopard will continue the trend."


        Huh, wha?

        Actually Tiger is much faster overall than Panther (excepting several finder actions... previewing images/.movs in column view, for instance), and as a fellow ADC member I can tell you that the new finder smokes. No more 5 minute lockouts if you forget to disconnect the laptop from the server before you leave the office. A NICE, extremely usable network browser.... lots of little polishy-bits. I'm hoping that the stacked dock icons make it back into the GM. I loved having all my office and CS3 icons in a single pile, not taking up huge amounts of real estate.

        I'm not exactly buying into Apple's "entirely new finder" party line, but the improvements they've made are nice and snappy in the last several builds I've tested.

        No idea why anyone would want to view a folder in cover flow mode, but whatever. It works, it's fast and Quicklook is mega-handy.

        Can't really go into more detail for a couple more weeks, but if you follow the builds on the rumor sites you can see that Leopard is quickly approaching a solid release state.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Tiger was quite a bit faster than Panther. They sped up Quartz 2D, for example, by a large amount. Leopard will probably be faster still. It's getting native 64-bit support, more finely-grained locking is being implemented in the kernel, etc.
      • by dal20402 (895630) * <dal20402@mac . c om> on Monday September 24 2007, @04:17PM (#20734869) Journal

        With every $150 service pack released for OSX

        Not this $#!+ again...

        While they're not as dramatic as new Windows versions (and not as expensive), OS X releases are not comparable to service packs.

        Service packs don't add new features. On the rare occasions when they do, the features tend to be related only to stability or security. That is comparable to OS X 10.x.x releases, not the major "big cat" releases. Those minor releases occur far more frequently than Windows service packs (which has its pluses and minuses).

        "Big cat" releases add many, many features, both visible and under the hood. Assuming you accept the model of paying for an OS in the first place, they should be paid upgrades, because they fundamentally change the product you're buying.

        And the last paragraph of your reply shows your only experience of Apple is through its Windows software (which could be better). Try actually using a Mac before pontificating about it.

      • by wavedeform (561378) on Monday September 24 2007, @06:06PM (#20736279)

        I know I shouldn't respond to this anonymous troll, but...

        With every $150 service pack released for OSX...

        There have been eleven releases of OS X 10.4.x over the last couple years. Once you had 10.4 all those releases were free. These releases are roughly equivalent to a service pack, in Microsoft-speak. Service packs don't add features, do they? The major releases all add features. Granted many of them are new capabilities for developers to take advantage of, but there are usually enough immediate benefits for the end user to drive sales.

        And by the way, if you're going to troll, at least get your facts straight. Major releases of 10.x are $129 for a single machine, and $199 for a family pack that covers five machines.

    • No not the bs they include (I'm sorry when I can type faster than the fucking shell that's a problem, and one problem I haven't had since like 91-92 on dialup :P

      On a 1.2GHz G4 eMac:

      $ find / > /tmp/foo
      $ wc /tmp/foo
      636858 1061869 59578401 /tmp/foo
      $ time cat /tmp/foo
      cat /tmp/foo 0.00s user 1.45s system 2% cpu 49.424 total

      I cannot quite type 1.2MB per second for more than a short burst, so I'll defer to your presumably superior typing skills and admit that I may not be as finicky as you deservedly are. Still, I would suppose that even one such as yourself would find Terminal.app to be at least, say, decent?

    • by sfgoth (102423) on Monday September 24 2007, @06:38PM (#20736573) Homepage Journal
      Do Apple users actually keep up to date with OS X revisions?
      I'd guess about half of them do. Most of the other half stay up-to-date with the minor revisions (10.4.x) for free using Software Update.

      Is "Leopard" more like a service pack or a whole new OS or somewhere in-between?
      It's a "whole new OS" like Vista is a whole new OS relative to XP.

      And what's the downside to not upgrading? Applications aren't tied to new OS X versions, are they?
      Same as with Vista. You get various OS improvements, most are low level. Slowly apps will come out that require those features. Five years from now it'll be the minimum required version, etc...

      -pmb