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iPhone Doesn't Surf Fast Enough for Jobs
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jun 29, 2007 08:29 AM
from the must-go-faster-must-go-fastr dept.
from the must-go-faster-must-go-fastr dept.
ElvaWSJ writes with a link to a Wall Street Journal interview with Steve Jobs and AT&T's CEO Randall Stephenson. As you can imagine, they're pretty enthusiastic. Just the same, they address the possibility that the iPhone will slow internet access on Ma Bell's cell network. "Mr. Jobs acknowledged that the company's new iPhone won't surf the Internet as fast as he would like on the network, called "Edge," but added that the device's ability to connect to Wi-Fi hotspots would give consumers a speedier alternative for Web browsing. For his part, Mr. Stephenson said the iPhone represents a broader push by AT&T into Wi-Fi services, including, potentially, mobile Internet calling. The two men also discussed the iPod's "halo effect" and reflected on the origins of their corporate partnership."
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Technology: AT&T Gears Up for the iPhone 256 comments
ElvaWSJ writes "In preparation for its exclusive launch of the cellphone industry's most anticipated device, AT&T is pulling out all the stops. It is adding about 2,000 temporary employees to cope with the influx of shoppers in the first few months. And it is planning for enhanced security to control the potentially large crowds and avoid theft of the phones, which will go for a steep $499 or $599, depending on memory capacity. Some sales agents expect to see people camping outside the night before. 'Apple, which plans to start selling the phone in all of its 162 retail stores on June 29, did not disclose any plans around training or staffing for the launch. Apple will also start selling the phone online on the launch date, but AT&T will first launch only in its stores ... AT&T, which is requiring iPhone shoppers to sign up for a 2-year contract, has not yet revealed the service fees it will charge iPhone customers.'"
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Not much choice (Score:5, Interesting)
ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather have more power consumption to download something in two seconds than less power consumption to download it in 10. The battery life may be somewhat less but if you can get the same amount of web browsing done in less time, what's the loss?
Sorry, I prefer speed at the expense of battery life. That and no tethering makes the iPhone less than useful for me.
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:5, Insightful)
No it doesn't. I for one find it unacceptable to have to plug in my cell phone in the middle of the day. It's why I've opted for smart phones with fantastic battery life (Sony P800 and currently the Nokia e61). Until they announced the new battery life figures for the iPhone it was a non-starter for me, regardless of how cool it may be. There are plenty of times when I'm not near a power outlet, and since I'm on-call 24/7 there are also plenty of times when I don't want to be tethered to a power outlet. Long battery life means I can go where I want and do what I want without concern about the phone dying. I plug it in while I sleep and the next day it's ready to go all day again.
I've been to trade shows with people running around looking for power outlets so they can charge their phones. Tethered to one place for an hour or two at a time. Sorry, I've got places to go and things to do.
Is edge slow compared to 3G? Sure, it's what I had on the P800 and it's what I have on the e61 (T-Mobile doesn't do 3G). You know what? It's fast enough for email and web surfing is tolerable. I'm not downloading Gigabytes of data because IT'S A FREAKIN' PHONE! Is 3G faster? No doubt. But for email and web surfing edge is actually just fine. If I need faster access then most likely I also need the processing power in my laptop, not a phone. For those occasions I'm after a wi-fi hotspot anyway.
Having said all that, if the iPhone was 3G would it be better? Of course. But is 3G the "requirement" every seems to think? Hardly. Of course I'm also a weirdo who thinks the lack of flash support in Safari on the iPhone is actually a blessing.
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
For a device that is clearly going to be bandwidth hungry to be useful as more than a pretty phone it needs 3G. If Wifi is available and you want to stick around a hotspot you might as well take out your notebook, if you're not buying it for the internet capabilities why not just get a plain phone?
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:5, Insightful)
Every single person you're talking to, for starters. Haven't you just described the whole freakin' tech industry?
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
2.) Waiting for the next iPhone means waiting an unknown length of time. It could be years.
3.) The contract doesn't say you have to use the same phone for two years. If a better one comes out, you can switch.
4.) Many people are more interested with having constant access to things like email, which doesn't need 3G speeds.
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Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you just answered your own question... Really, the unlimited plan is limited by how much data you'd actually use on your phone, which is a lot less than you can with your laptop. The phone itself isn't going to transfer much data, because other than YouTube, it can't make use of large amounts of data (unless they start allowing people to buy from the iTunes store directly on the phone). Your laptop is where you could start downloading large files and doing a lot of other communication. That eases the strain on their network, but they still get to call your data plan unlimited.
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EDGE is a slow network. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Interesting)
Here are some number from the UK Vodafone GPRS (non-Edge) network collected on a typical Cambridge to London Commute:
1. Business commuter trains (starting time) 7:15-8:45 and 17:15-18:45 97% downlink packet loss, totally unuseable. Looks like the BB is actually prioritised versus any other traffic to ensure that the people who enjoy a vibrator up their crotch have an instant vibration regularly.
2. Transition period: 8:45-9:15 and 16:15-17:15 - works in some areas depending on cell capacity
3. Non-business commuter trains 9:15-15:45 and after 19:15 - works flawlessly except a couple of holes in coverage. Speed is not great, but quite tolerable. Definitely useable for some minor surfing, checking mail, working on a couple of documents.
I would not expect ATT to be much different. In fact, it is likely to be worse. With or without Edge.
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Informative)
The reason I switched from T-Mobile to Cingular was the data speed. T-Mobile clocked in around 40kbps average, where Cingular/AT&T was 160kbps.
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Funny)
But what if one of those 50 people is a...TERRORIST!?!?!
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh and the iPhone can last a day with normal consumption, not 45 minutes because 3G chipsets consumer insane amounts of power.
Seriously this not 3G crap is getting old. Its not 3G because in the US 3G is NOT READY YET.
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Informative)
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Wrong! (Score:5, Interesting)
The US is 3G ready - it's Cingular/AT&T and T-Mobile who aren't.
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Re:Map mixes Edge and 3G (Score:5, Insightful)
So the progression is something like this:
2G -> 2.5G -> 3G -> 3.5G -> 4G
GSM -> Edge -> W-CDMA(UMTS) -> HSPA -> LTE
cdmaOne -> 1xRTT -> EVDO -> EVDO Rev A -> UMB/OFDMA/WiMAX
Sprint has already rolled out EVDO Rev. A in some locations, which is "bitchin fast" for both download and upload.
I've had an EVDO Rev. 0 card in my laptop for a few years, and while I wouldn't say it is quite as fast as WiFi, it is really great and I get 5 hours of battery life.
In conclusion, your statement that the country is "EDGE ready, not 3G" is inaccurate in several ways. Not meaning to flame.
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Correction (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple yanked all of the Flash from its corporate website and redid it all in standard Ajax using scriptilicious and other plane jane tools, demonstrating that anyone can. It's even more interactive and functional (check out Apple.com search) and no proprietary plugin for Flash required.
Adobe isn't happy about it, but do we really need to convert the web from open HTML into closed FLA? Apple even convinced Google to start putting all of its FLA On2 videos on YouTube into standard H.264. That makes is much easier to deliver standards-based hardware acceleration for mobile devices that optimizes YouTube type sites.
With this kind of progress, the web is headed back into open territory after a long captivity in proprietary hell. That's good for Linux users, DIY site builders, and levels the playing field in hardware.
The web shouldn't be hostage to anyone's plugin just to render pages, particularly a plugin tied to a proprietary and industrially uncommon video codec that doesn't appear to have any hardware acceleration features. Anyone can license H.264 or get cheap dedicated processors.
Internet Explorer on the desktop PC doesn't make any attempt to support CSS3, and doesn't even try hard to do 2005-era CSS. The Pocket version is even further away from being remotely useful for the modern web.
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Not fast enough?!?! (Score:5, Funny)
Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
What better advertising for the iPhone could there be than Apple's CEO complaining that the data rate is too slow?
my fears have been relived...
I'm sorry you even had to live them once, much less twice.
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WiFi (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:WiFi (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say its AT&T protecting itself when problems start to crop up with their data network.
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Re:WiFi (Score:5, Interesting)
See http://theonlyphoneyouneed.com/ [theonlyphoneyouneed.com]
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I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (Score:5, Interesting)
that way you could get your choice of service, your phone is not held hostage by unscrupulous Service providers, and it would have forced a change in the way cellular companies abuse their customers.
a win,win,win situation.
Because (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, if the iPhone does become the next iPod, then other carriers will start to make changes to support those features. Then APple will open it to other carriers.
This is very Jobs. Get his foot in the door, then eventually be the hippest cat in the whole room.
Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is NOT your friend, and they are NOT trying to bring about a revolution for the little guy. They are trying to worm their way in to every possible aspect of getting your money. Why do you HAVE to go thru iTunes to set a ring tone? Why can't you just use an existing MP3 that you downloaded/copied over to the phone? Because Apple doesn't get a cut that way.
The phone is not unlocked because Apple gets a cut of the service from AT&T. The phone will most likely only be unlocked when Apple negotiates a cut from the other GSM service providers.
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Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (Score:5, Funny)
The most they can you say?
Well this is an unsettling development.
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Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (Score:5, Funny)
And it was tasty and refreshing, thank you very much.
The reason I want an iPhone is because I've been extremely happy with every Apple product I've ever bought. They want to provide me with a service I desire for a price I find appropriate? Oh, that tricksy Jobs! He's got me again!
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Ignore what it is, think of what it could be! (Score:5, Funny)
Ringtone business gets a tease:
Mr. Jobs: One might imagine a lot of things down the road.
Mr. Jobs: There's a lot of things you can imagine down the road.
But you can forget 3G in revision one:
Mr. Jobs: No, we just don't comment on future stuff.
I also got a kick out of this:
Mr. Jobs: There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network.
Theft of service, it's the Apple way!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it autoconnect or manual to wifi (Score:5, Insightful)
AT+T jsut boosted EDGA speeds (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/atandt-custome
As we know, increased means they probably removed some artificial cap....
I wonder how many days will go by until the drop the speed again? I guess there will be a halo effect of new iPhone buyers showing their friends - "hey look at this I can browse the web" - just for the sake of it....
This great new product! (Score:5, Funny)
Same as 1.5 Mbps is enough for anyone. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mr. Stephenson: If you think about wireless broadband networks, EDGE is the only ubiquitous nationwide broadband network deployed today. It's a 300-plus kilobit type service. We're selling in the tens of thousands every single month of smart phones that operate on nothing but EDGE. The service experience is really, really good and what you're going to see with the iPhone is the caching technology that Steve and the Apple guys have developed here makes the EDGE experience even better. Between the Wi-Fi and the EDGE coverage, this is a really good experience.
High latency, low bandwidth broadband. Huzzah!
Sprint's EVDO network is deployed as widely as AT&T's EDGE network (not even all of AT&T's GSM network is EDGE). Worse, Sprint's EVDO revA network is deployed in most metropolitan areas, nearly all interstate highways, and nearly all tourist areas.
For AT&T, Edge is "all the speed you need", up until they deploy HSDPA, in which case that will be, "all the speed you need". Just like this: http://www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/03/30/att-proj
Mr.Stephenson said that AT&T's field tests have shown 'no discernable difference' between AT&T's 1.5 Mbps service and Comcast's 6 Mbps because the problem is not in the last mile but in the backbone.
Ridiculous
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I didn't get far... (Score:5, Insightful)
There were several little incubator projects or outright commercial failures for GUI's in the early 80's. Macintosh was the one that brought it to the world. They are the ones that got it right. That gives them some pretty significant bragging rights.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't make any apologies for Job's well known asshole tendencies (but supposedly those are much more subdued since NeXT, guess winning does fix everything?) but all he is doing here is stating what really happened. Were the primitives and direct inspiration for the Mac gui borrowed from Xerox? Damn straight. They borrowed from other places too, but they had the foresight to slap it all together and shove it out to the masses. This is how humanity works people, we build on
They didn't say they invented it (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:-sigh- (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:oblig (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Here is a copy of the article (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice spin. I wish I had Wi-Fi networks wherever I roamed. My HTC Wizard has EDGE+WiFi, but I've never heard anyone claim "Whadda you want 3G for, you have Wi-Fi!"
Blah.
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Re:Here is a copy of the article (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:oblig (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not really the bandwidth, it's the latency. T-Mobile's EDGE runs about 700-1000ms ping times for me. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. I generally get 60-80kbps, which isn't horrific. Hell, I've even watched YouTube videos on the EDGE network. Not something I'd do a lot, but it is doable.
If they could get the latency down, EDGE would be a lot less annoying.
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Re:Halo (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless, of course, you're Verizon who had the balls to stand up to Apple. Right decision in the end or not, at least they stood up for their business.
If someone came to you and said:
1) We want you to agree to sell our product, sight unseen.
2) You have to cut all of your partners out of it.
3) We will tell you whether the phone can be replaced if a customer has a problem.
4) We want a percentage of service revenue.
- does that sound like a good business decision to you? You're going to alienate all of your other partners (i.e. Best buy, Walmart, etc..) You're going to alienate your customers (Sorry, we'd love to replace your handset Mr. Big-Important-VIP-Customer, but Apple said no. Can't help you.), and worst of all, you open the door for *EVERYONE* to take a piece of your service revenue - why wouldn't Motorola/LG/Samsung/etc. ask for the same deal? (You did it for Apple - either split revenue with us, or no RAZR2 for you.)
I agree - I think it would've kicked butt if VZW had the iPhone. A real 3G network (EV-DO) would complement iPhone wonderfully, as would a real voice network (GSM quality is crap. CDMA not only covers more area per tower, but it has a better vocoder as well.)
But can you blame them for turning it down? I would have, given the way Apple approached them.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2007-01-28-veri
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Re:Halo (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh noes!! Please don't withhold the RAZR2 from us!! Our customers will die -- all three of them!!
Well OK, the RAZR sold more than three units. I assume. Anyway, the curent economic model between the cellphone manufacturers and service providers sucks. It leads to stupid shit like feature-blocking. I want my cellphone provider to provide service. And usable information about that service. My cable company didn't sell me a TV. My ISV didn't sell me my computer (and if they did I'll bet it wouldn't be one that I wanted.) Sure, I wish the iPhone was usable with all carriers, but it isn't. Yet. One step at a time.
Oh, and P.S. When the RAZR came out it cost $500 as well WITH a service agreement; $800 without. Just saying.
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Re:Halo (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Revolutionary? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, my P990i does have a touchscreen, does view the web, does play music. That doesn't mean the iPhone's UI isn't revolutionary.
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