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AppleTV Becomes OSX Workstation
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Apr 02, 2007 07:05 AM
from the reconstruction dept.
from the reconstruction dept.
An anonymous reader writes "AppleTVhacks published a full howto install guide with 12 easy steps to turn your AppleTV into a full blown OSX workstation. With a processor emulation, hacker Semthex of hackint0sh.org, managed to get full blown OSX working on a AppleTV. The kernel for this hack is freely available under APSL and opens the legal way to a really cheap Mac Nano. With 300$ difference to the Mac Mini, this is becoming a fairly interesting deal." April Fool's, btw.
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Developers: Neuros Solicits Help From AppleTV Hackers 59 comments
JoeBorn writes "Highlighting the fact that Neuros officially encourages contributions to its open source device (GPL), it has published an open letter soliciting the help of AppleTV hackers. 'The transition to IPTV creates a golden opportunity to ensure that the gateway to the TV set becomes open to all.' Neuros draws a connection between open source and free media, and attempts to articulate why an open box can extend the freedom of the internet to the TV set."
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I dont get it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I dont get it? (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem with this (for me) is that you have to install the Intel version of OS X. As far as I know you can't get the Intel version without buying an Intel Mac (something I don't have). So basically you'll have to wait until Leopard before you can buy an Intel version of OS X.
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Re:I dont get it? (Score:5, Funny)
You could wait till a disk image of the hacked A.TV shows up on the seedy underbelly of the Internet.
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Apple's store [apple.com] sells MacOSX Tiger for $129.
That said, the cost of Apple TV + MacOSX Tiger is only $170 less than buying a Mac Mini with MacOSX pre-installed. And Apple TV doesn't come with a DVD/CD drive, and it's hard drive
Re:I dont get it? (Score:5, Informative)
One presumes this would change with Leopard (10.5), which should be the first retail-available install of OS X that would work on Intel or PPC machines.
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Re:I dont get it? (Score:5, Informative)
However, note the little bit in the OSX license that says you may only run OSX on Apple hardware. The A.TV is still Apple hardware. Your Dell isin't.
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Re:I dont get it? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Not quite yet (Score:2)
So far, nobody has bought a retail copy of OSX for Intel - it only comes bundled with hardware "for free", so everybody is running a 'stolen' copy on their non-Apple hardware. This will change when Leopard is released in a couple months and you c
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Thats Apple hardware. It doesn't say that % of system has to be be Apple Hardware.
It doesn't say that the machine in question has to be an Apple. It says "Apple Hardware".
So yes. A hackintosh is legal, as long as you have a piece of "Apple Hardware" on it, such as an Apple Keyboard.
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doesn't say that % of system has to be be Apple Hardware. It doesn't say that the machine in question has to be an Apple. It says "Apple Hardware".
From what I've read, it doesn't say that either. I believe it was "Apple labeled personal computer" or some such and I believe it does have a legal description of what that refers to.
So yes. A hackintosh is legal, as long as you have a piece of "Apple Hardware" on it, such as an Apple Keyboard.
Anyone who gets their legal advice free on Slashdot, probably gets what they paid for.
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Is there something I'm missing? If that's legal, what's to stop me putting a (legal) copy os OS X on any common-or-garden x86 box?
Two things:
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Devil's advocate on this one: the license agreement says an Apple-labled computer. If push comes to shove, does Apple consider the AppleTV a computer (aside from the fact that it obviously is - but keep in mind that you can consider nearly anything with a microprocessor a "computer" - the point is does Apple consider AppleTV a "computer", or an appliance?).
There is no way at this time to buy a b
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Devil's advocate on this one: the license agreement says an Apple-labled computer. If push comes to shove, does Apple consider the AppleTV a computer (aside from the fact that it obviously is - but keep in mind that you can consider nearly anything with a microprocessor a "computer" - the point is does Apple consider AppleTV a "computer", or an appliance?)
Apple isn't free to redefine the meaning of computer at will. Unless there is specific verbage to the contrary in the EULA, then the Apple TV most certai
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Apple isn't free to redefine the meaning of computer at will. Unless there is specific verbage to the contrary in the EULA, then the Apple TV most certainly IS a computer and Apple can't just say "No it isn't!".
The DVR box I lease from my cable company has a CPU, OS, I/O ports, and HDD. It is not a personal computer, in the legal sense of the word. AppleTV, from what I've heard of it, is in the same boat.
You can try and be pendantic and say "it's a computer technically!" and you're right -- but so are (de
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That is much beside the point though. The technical meaning of a word generally IS the legal meaning. If the EULA mentions that it must be run on an Apple branded computer then if you can find an Apple coffee pot with a CPU
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What, hang around?
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Well, kind of, ignoring the difficulty of getting a licensed copy of Tiger for Intel right now.
For a household that already has Macs, the costs come down. If you already have one Mac, then the cost of an AppleTV with a copy of Leopard will be, assuming Apple's pricing doesn't change, ~$370, because a family pack costs $70 more than a single license. If you have more
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If they don't, they'll end up in very deep trouble, because they aren't following the restrictions (required by law) for audio/video recording devices.
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Your latter point is certainly valid, but like you said, that'll almost certainly chan
Don't play dumb. (Score:5, Interesting)
...
AppleTV is an interesting case, because it is an "Apple-labeled" product, which is what the Mac OS X license agreement [apple.com] stipulates. And that's the key.
The license agreement specifies that Mac OS X can only be run on an Apple-labeled computer. And that is Apple's right. Now, you can ignore it, or ignore legal frameworks that may (or may not) enforce license agreements within certain countries/jurisdictions, and so on, but that's why running Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware is "illegal". There are NO prohibitions to doing things like hacking the kernel, etc. It's open source, and you can do with it what you wish regardless.
But there are still some interesting considerations:
- There is no way to legally get a standalone, retail copy of Mac OS X (Intel) for AppleTV, unless you make arguments about transferring an abandoned license from another Intel-based Mac. (And no, there is no conventional Mac OS X license that comes with AppleTV, either explicitly or implicitly.)
- Technically, you could purchase and run Mac OS X Server 10.4.x (Universal) and legally run it on AppleTV - there would be no prohibitions to this.
- Mac OS X 10.5.x (Leopard) will be the first version of Mac OS X to have a legally purchasable standalone retail Intel version (actually, Leopard will be Universal).
But there are some other things to think about:
- Even when Leopard ships, at retail pricing, it's still $299 + $129 for AppleTV + Mac OS X. It's $171 more for a much more capable Mac mini. However, $171 may be enough to get people to consider this.
- This will really be interesting if Leopard can run unmodified on AppleTV (i.e., without a hacked kernel).
- This will still be relegated to the hobbyist/experimenter/hacker crowd, as you need to disassemble AppleTV in order to do this, image drives, have another Mac handy, and so on, not to mention that the warranty is likely void while OS X is installed on the machine (which of course is reversible, etc.)
So while this is all very interesting, please consider the fact that there are no legal ways to get Mac OS X for it currently.
This post is obviously not for people who think EULAs are BS, or that since it's an Apple product "it's okay", or that since it has some stripped down OS X on it already, "it's okay" to also install OS X from their friend's iMac, etc.
I'm simply raising the legitimate concerns surrounding licensing on AppleTV, some of which get interesting with Leopard since it is, indeed, and Apple-labeled computer, and Leopard will be available standalone.
There are also no prohibitions on using a modified kernel, but one very interesting question might be, does Apple consider AppleTV a "computer", since that is what the Mac OS X license agreement explicitly states?
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Re:Don't play dumb. (Score:4, Insightful)
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If people want to make ridiculous arguments like "what if I just dropped four grand on a Mac Pro, but now suddenly only want to run Windows Vista on it, but I still want to use the OS X license on my Sony Vaio," more power to them. They can make their own moral/ethical determinations. If they want to ask if it's "legal", the answer in many jurisdictions is still, "probably not", because of what t
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What if I bought a family pack [apple.com] of licenses to tiger from Apple?
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While it may get you around your own personal moral qualms (and isn't a bad argument, frankly), Mac OS X 10.4.x (Intel) and Mac OS X 10.4.x (PowerPC) are simply not the same product, and you can't juggle licenses between them. Your family pack license is for Mac OS X 10.4.x (PowerPC) only.
There already is standing precedent for this: Mac OS X Server 10.4.x (PowerPC) and Mac OS X Server 10.4.7 (Universal) are not the same product, and have different part num
Re:Don't play dumb... but this is not a computer (Score:2, Insightful)
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I'm saying that the warranty is effectively void while Mac OS X is installed on it: Mac OS X is not supported in any way, shape, or form on AppleTV; so, if you need warranty service, it's obviously not going to be able to be serviced by Apple if it doesn't even have its own OS on it, will it? Even if the problem is not OS related, Apple still will likely need to test/boot/etc. the unit, and I can't imagine a scenario where Apple would be amenable to stock Mac OS
omgponies !!!! (Score:2)
www.appletvhacks.net/ 2007/04/01
Come on...
Yes, it's a Hoax. (Score:3, Informative)
What day is it again? (Score:5, Funny)
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True, I don't think it's real either. The thing is: if you manage to do such a hack on or around Fools Day, I'd wait a few days before releasing the information. That way you're less likely to be considered a fake.
Many of the comments on that page were made on April 1st, including the one where the guy claims it's not an April Fools joke. I'm not buying it.
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The thing is, the AppleTV does actually run Mac OS X, just with some unnecessary components removed and the Finder replaced by a FrontRow type application. So it can't be that hard, in theory at least, to run the real thing.
At worst, it may be that the components that are encumbered by DRM in the regular Intel version of Tiger (Dock.app and Finder.app IIRC, they're tied to the "Don't steal Mac OS X" kernel extension) will not work on the AppleTV version. That presents a challenge to hackers, but as there
Great progress so far. (Score:5, Interesting)
Hopefully Apple won't try too hard to prevent this from happening in future revisions of the hardware. Though I doubt the content providers are all that excited about the news. But then again... the amount of hacked ATVs vs. every other multimedia capable device is rater insignificant.
I'm sure this will be a hit with the I need a pretty little file server on a shelf crowd.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The patchstick project (enabling SSH without opening the case) and ATVfiles (play divx movies on the file system, and files not in the iTunes library) look particularly interesting.
I've been keeping a close eye on this from the beginning and I find it amazing how quickly they are figuring things out. It almost looks like this thing
Website almost unreadable (Score:2)
Oh, and the site is now dead.
Clearly they saw /. coming (Score:2, Redundant)
Anyone get a mirror up?
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This could be... (Score:2)
1/2 the price, less than 1/2 the performance (Score:4, Informative)
granted the apple tv is tiny and cool, but if you're looking for a super cheap PC, you might as well go ahead and grab a mini for a little extra for the total package. Besides I'm sure you can find them for 500 bucks or so since they've been around for so long...
"GHz per dollar" is a bad metric (Score:3, Insightful)
Because sometimes speed doesn't matter. Most desktop applications are not processor bound any more. Processor speed is not the only thing to consider when buying a computer. Sure, it's worth considering, but you make it sound like it is the only factor to consider when buying a computer.
> Besides I'm sure you can find them for 500 bucks or so since they've been around for so long...
Why are you compari
Here's the videos (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qvJSMojBQ [youtube.com]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=184042799
Call Me Crazy but...... (Score:2, Interesting)
FINALLY someone gets it! (Score:3, Interesting)
MythTV? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Anyway, my reasoning for wanting to install Linux on i
Re:MythTV? -- working on it (Score:3, Informative)
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Processor
1.0GHz Intel Pentium M-based "Crofton" CPU, based on SSE2 Dothan model # 7645A966 0159
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What hardware is it running? What kind of pipe does it have? No matter what OS you're on, you're still limited by other factors. Just because a website is running Apache on CentOS, or even Apache on OpenBSD, it doesn't necessarily mean that it won't crash or become overburdened.