Apple vs Apple -- Judgment Day 310
DaphneDiane writes "According to the Times Online Apple Computer successfully defended themselves vs the suit brought by Apple Corps." If you are looking for background on the case we had talked about it earlier. I'm just relieved that the battle of two bazillion dollar companies turned out well. Phew. And, of course, Apple Corp has filed an appeal already.
let's face facts (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:let's face facts (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:let's face facts (Score:2)
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a951027.html [straightdope.com]
Re:let's face facts (Score:2)
The case isn't a copyright infringement case- it's not about confusing the two. It's a contract infringement case. Apple Corps claims that Apple Computers broke a contract between them which states that Apple Computer cannot be in the music business, or some such. It's irrelivent to the contract whether s
Re:let's face facts (Score:3, Insightful)
Quick! Name the label for one of your favorite, non-Beatles albums. I'd bet you can't do it.
Labels don't promote themselves to the buying public. They promote their products (the bands). How many people even know who Apple Corps is? I would imagine only the hardcore Beatles fans who make it their
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:let's face facts (Score:2)
If I said to most people I'd bought something from "Apple music" don't you think they would assume I meant iTunes?
Re:let's face facts (Score:3, Funny)
Re:let's face facts (Score:5, Funny)
...whereas most PC users are stupid enough to think that using a complicated computer somehow makes you the smart ones, huh? :-)
Beatles on iTunes next? (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless they remaster everything - which they're proportedly doing - but the restirctions they're trying to lay down make the recent "big 4" vs iTunes look like a cakewalk.
If either Apple wanted a totally (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:If either Apple wanted a totally (Score:5, Informative)
Much as I love the Beatles, I'm glad that Apple lost this silly case (and that Apple won)
Re:If either Apple wanted a totally (Score:2)
Anyway, he started off running an office store, Exon Office Supplies and was only able to enter politics when he got a big check from Exxon for the rights to that name. Yes, they aren't spelled the same and they were in different businesses but the Secretary of State thought the names were t
Re:If either Apple wanted a totally (Score:2)
Saddened (Score:4, Insightful)
My question would be - can Apple Corps start their internet Download Music Store and not get sued by Apple Computer? Is there a potential for mistakes in Apple iDMS and Apple iTMS?
Re:Saddened (Score:2, Flamebait)
Let me be the first whiney mac fanboi to say "waaah, waaah, waaaah," Apple Computers was always a bigger company then Apple Corp (even in 1968 [wikipedia.org]
Seriously - you make a good point, expect to be modded down for it as soon as the legions of Apple fanbois arrive.
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
Apparently, the debate was settled in court. Apple Computer can use the Apple name and the Apple Computer logo on the iTunes Music Store.
Apple Corp. is going to appeal, but I'd bet money that a settlement is reached before it gets that far.
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
Re:Saddened (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does everyone keep repeating this incorrect statement? Just because the submitter thinks it's true, doesn't mean it is.
Folks, Apple Records, Apple Corp, whatever you want to call it, is NOT a billionaire corporation. Sir Paul McCartney is a billionaire, but it's not because of Apple Corp or the Beatles. He is a billionaire because he bought out song publishing companies years ago, which is where the real money is. The Lennon estate was worth $100 million at the time of John Lennon's death, most due to investments Yoko made. The late George Harrison's estate was probably worth less than $100 million at the time of his death and Ringo Starr is definitely worth less than that. If you have any knowledge of royalty rates in the industy, you will know that the Beatles simply can't be making the kind of money some of you attribute to them. In my opinion, the Beatles and their lackeys have seriously mismanaged their catalog and the failure to put out "new" product (yes, believe it or not, there are still things in the vaults that could be released officially for the first time, such as the White Album demo sessions) more than once every 5+ years have actually kept them from earning as much money as they could have earned. They release material so infrequently that it sells simply because of scarcity, not because of merit. The last offical release, the Let It Be
I don't think there is any realistic chance of the Beatles (Apple Corp) competing against Apple Computers. Apple Corp likes to sit back and get paid. They don't like to actually do something to get the money and setting up their music download store would require real work.
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
I disagree. This isn't about a lack of fair play. The musical geniuses at Apple Corp chose the name of their company incredibly unwisely. Can someone please tell me what about the name "Apple Corp" indicates that it is in the music industry? Nothing, absolutely nothing - more likely the fruit business. Apple Computer, on the other hand sells computers and software. The fact that their product is used to transmit music, completely irrelevant.
Had they chosen the name The Apple Music Corp, non of this would ha
Re:Saddened (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, we're not talking about a giant company fighting a little guy, we're talking about an active company fighting a long-dead rights holder. Should Apple Computers be prevented from revolutionizing the movie business through a new (and long overdue) distribution channel simply because Apple Corps put out some self-indulgent beatles movies in 1974? Should online music publishing be stopped because this rights clearing house who has a similar name feels uncomfortable with it? Should the Apple Stores which have tremendously pushed forward upscale retail design be shut down because Apple record had a store in 1967?
Ok, so that last one isn't so great to humanity. But the point is Apple Corps has long since been a non-entity. They don't DO anything. There would be no confusion between the two because outside of specialized circles looking to use Beatles recordings for things, nobody actually refers to the Apple Corps for any reason. Why should past performance guarantee that nobody with a similar (and honestly kind of generic) name can push into similar space into perpetuity. At this point in their existence, Apple Corps is little more than a cybersquatter.
Re:Saddened (Score:2)
What a load of hogwash. There was never any question of Apple's continued existence, it was a simple trademark decision. It's pretty sad Apple got any money at all ever over this exercise, since I can't see how they've been damaged by it.
1) "Apple" is an ordinary word. The Beatles can't st
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Probably typeset using Quark XPress on an iMac, ironically.
Justice Mann? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Justice Mann? (Score:5, Funny)
Why Apple records sued... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why Apple records sued... (Score:5, Informative)
But when it's all said and done, I think we're better off having Apple Computers win. Over the past couple of decades, they've contributed far more to the world, and that makes them more deserving of profits than Apple Records, which is basically just coasting on some hard work from decades ago. Even though I don't like the iTMS DRM all that much, I find it hard to argue that any else has done nearly as much for online music sales, and it'd be a shame for an old contract to slow down progress on that front.
The lawsuit had no merit whatsoever... (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at these two examples:
Budweiser (Budvar, Czech Republic) and Budweiser (Anheuser Busch, USA). Same name, same business. And I have seen both products sold in the same location before (I prefer the Czech version myself).
ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) and ABC (American Broadcasting Company). ABC... ABC. Same business.
And these are just off the top of my head. Certainly there are others.
I don't get where the Beatles were going with their action. Clearly Apple Computer was not going to be made to stop using their own logo and name. Nor were they going to be made to stop selling music via iTunes. What gives?
Re:The lawsuit had no merit whatsoever... (Score:3, Insightful)
As Apple Corps and Apple Computer both use the trademark in the same countries (in this ca
Re:The lawsuit had no merit whatsoever... (Score:2)
In fact, Anheuser-Busch sued Budéjovický Budvar over the Budweiser trademark here in Finland. The case was not very clear, as Budvar had registered "Budweiser" earlier than A-B, but had lost the trademark because of not using it. Also, for Budvar the name refers to the brewery, while for Anheuser-Bus
Re:The lawsuit had no merit whatsoever... (Score:5, Funny)
Again, laws holding back progress. (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine for a moment if Apple Computer had obeyed copyright and trademark laws to a “t” in this case. What products we never have seen the light of day? When you ponder this for a moment, it becomes clear how out-of-hand this nonsense is.
Re:Again, laws holding back progress. (Score:2)
Re:Again, laws holding back progress. (Score:3, Interesting)
The name has a lot to do with it. “Apple” is friendly and inviting. Being a common, house-hold item, it is something people can identify with. On the otherhand, most people I speak to have no idea what a “Microsoft” is. Before you tell me that the latter is more successful than the former, I would submit that Apple have accomplished a lot more in shorter time, pushing new technology faster than anyone else in the industry. But I digress.
What I intended to point out was iTunes
Re:Again, laws holding back progress. (Score:2)
The earlier ruling said that they couldn't market music enhancements under the name Apple. They could still go ahead with the ipod and itunes, but under a different name. And it could also be something friendly and inviting.
Not sure if this aricle mentions it, but the one I read said that Apple Records would be appealing the case, so they are not out of the woods yet!
Re:Again, laws holding back progress. (Score:2)
They had the RS/6000, the OS/360 - OS/390, the AS/400 etc. You have to be intimately familiar with IBM to know what a 3270 emulator is for... try finding one of those at your local Computer store
On the other had, Jaguar got away nicely with the XK series (which is the first thing I thought of when I saw your joke name
I gotta say, though, it probably is best to have a name that has something to do with your product (like MS SQL Server, GameBoy, JournalSpace, etc). Most likely eas
Sad but True... (Score:5, Funny)
Apple won out against the RIAA, Apple won out against France, and now Apple won out against the Beatles' old label. Despite it, every investor knows the truth: Apple is dying. Watch their stock price for a decline this afternoon in light of this terrible, tragic, positive news.
Yes, this is sarcasm. Except for the stock decline thing.
Re:Sad but True... (Score:4, Funny)
"Turned out well" (Score:2)
All I have to say... (Score:2)
Is there any possibility of confusing these 2 sites?
Things would be different if they where signing artists and producing content to be sold in competition (as if there where such a thing in an entertainment industry) with Apple Corp.
Re:All I have to say... (Score:2)
Things would be different if they where signing artists and producing content to be sold in competition (as if there where such a thing in an entertainment industry) with Apple Corp.
You mean, if they were, I don't know, like hosting podcasts of unknown bands for distribution. Hmmmm.
The agreement/settlement(s) between the
next: Amazon sued for being a publisher (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't get it... (Score:4, Funny)
;-)
Wait...... (Score:2, Informative)
Phew! I live in Apple Grove Estates... (Score:4, Funny)
That'd really suck!
Get What They Deserve (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Get What They Deserve (Score:2)
There were a few mistakes, though. Only the first two albums should have been issued in mono, but somewhere along the line the first four appeared in this format. The next
Apple Corps appealed though (Score:4, Funny)
Apple Corps has however appealed the decision.
Also, there's some name hilarity in this article:
"I find no breach of the trademark agreement has been demonstrated," Mr Justice Mann said in his judgment on Monday. "The action therefore fails."
Justice Mann is even more cartoony than Judge Dredd.
Re:Apple Corps appealed though (Score:2)
I hope I am not late (Score:2)
http://www.riaa.com/gp/bestsellers/topartists.asp [riaa.com]
See, that 168.5 million selling Beatles just in USA? They own their rights.
So they have a job.
what goes around should come around (Score:2)
Summary of case (Score:5, Funny)
Apple: STFU, we're not IN your business.
Beatles: I know it's been a hard day's night for you, but yeah, you are.
Apple: STFU.
Beatles: Right, we'll see you in the Court on Penny Lane.
(later)
Court: Beatles, STFU.
Apple: We have triumphed yet again!
Beatles: Waaaaaah! Twist and Shout! You never give me your money! We'll appeal and then you're going to lose that girl!
All: STFU!
Judgement in Full (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-217097 7,00.html [timesonline.co.uk]
Mal Roadie not Neil (Score:2, Informative)
The article says that Neil Aspinall, now manager of Apple Corps, was the Beatles' first roadie. Neil wasn't a roadie, he was a press agent. Mal Evans [wikipedia.org] is well know as the Beatles roadie, go-fer and body guard.
The Beatles were great musicians, but terrible business men. The story of the mess that was Apple has been documented in several books including "The Love you Make" by Peter Brown.
And they're appealing? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:5, Insightful)
You note that companies have 'almost unlimited funds' - they use these funds to:
1) Change the law to suit themselves.
2) Discredit / ridicule those who spend their lives trying to get laws changed.
3) Bury in legalities / court fees those who oppose them.
How can we not hate the companies that do this?
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:5, Informative)
Probably. Most all Macs take standard PC memory. Since almost the beginning. Even the first PowerMacs used a slight variation of normal SIMMs. Many brands of PC memory worked in them. Add to that how easy the cases on Macs open up, I get the feeling you've probably just never seen and played with a Mac up close.
On top of that, I thought that their machines had a temperature sensor that would trigger it to internally mark itself as VOIDED if the case was open and the temperature in the room wasn't low enough.
Yeah, not sure where you got that from. They have no special hardware in them like that at all. And, I can't remember ever seeing a Mac with a sticker on it to keep you from opening the case. I've opened up pretty much every PowerMac ever made, was an Apple certified tech at a store for a few years. They really have no clue if you open the case and put in your own ram, harddrive, PCI/video card, NIC, modem, etc. All of these devices can be bought 3rd party, and there is no rule that I've ever heard about installing these voiding warranty. We sold 3rd party hardware all the time, and told them how to install it if they asked.
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Actually, Apple started using SIMMs about 2 years before PC manufacturers did. Back in the '386 days "extended" RAM required a vendor-specific board which could usually only be bought pre-populated, at outrageous markups. Tandy was the first PC to adopt SIMMs, in about 1987 or so, shortly after Apple, but the others waited much longer.
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
I also added in more
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:5, Informative)
If this story is true, then that reseller was blatantly lying, and needs to be bitchslapped for consumer fraud. This is not the way Apple works things.
Now, about sending the dead drive back, yes, they do have to send defective parts back *if they replace them under warranty*. However, if he just bought one straight out, even a 3rd party one (yes a standard PC version of a CD/DVD drive will work!), they can just sell it to him, at a slightly higher cost (as they don't get a discount by sending the broken one back). And, there is no such thing as a fine for adding your own hardware, or voiding a warranty. That's such bullshit. The problem is, they don't make much money on hardware sales. They make their money on labor. So they end up fucking Apple customers, and dragging Apple's name through the mud to make a profit.
Personally, I'd tell your friend to report that store to whatever consumer protection agency handles your state. They probably didn't break any laws, but lying to consumers about made-up fines and their rights is not acceptable.
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
I'd never try to replace the DVD-ROM drive in my tiBook, but the installation of new RAM couldn't possibly be easier. You just pop off the keyboard (no tools required) and insert the RAM into the easily accessible slot.
How the trollish post above that made this statement is moderated "Insightful" instead of "Troll" i
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Case in point, seven years ago (or so), my neighbor wanted me to help him buy a Mac for his junior high school age daughter. He didn't want to buy online or thru mail order, he wanted to go to a brick and mortar store, pay for it, and bring it home.
We purchased an iMac at CompUSA. We also purchased an extra stick of RAM, despite the protests of both the sales clerk and the
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
There is only one mac being sold right now that does not have user-installable memory, and that's the mac mini. It's very arguable that a novice should not try to open a mini. All other macintosh computers have user-installable memory. (three, out of production, are also in this group - upper slot in iMac G4, lower slot in PowerBook G3, and both slots in iMac G3 tray-loader)
Maybe if you wer
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:5, Interesting)
No, they won't. You are either badly misinfomed or else you are just spreading FUD.
I have a mini, ordered the day they were introduced, and I upgraded the memory myself as soon as it arrived. I also swapped out the hard drive for a 7200 RPM one a few months later.
The 1-year warranty remained 100% valid. (Although, obviously the 3rd-party items I installed are not covered by AppleCare.) I didn't buy the extended warranty, so I believe it just ran out last month.
The mini is very easy to open. The little clips are not nearly as brittle as the FUD-meisters would have you believe. They bend away and/or snap out with no damage at all.
I found the tricky part to be getting it to close back up correctly. You gotta line up the airport antenna just right, then get all those little plastic clips clipped back in while lining up this little pad with the back panel. Took me 2 or 3 attempts the first time I did it.
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:3, Informative)
-K
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not really on topic, but anway...
If you mean that their pricing could change with the switch to Intel-Chips: Yeah, it has changed. Since the Intel chips cost about twice as much as the G4s, the Mac mini and MacBook Pro prices have effectively gone up. Still competitive with comparable PC makers, though.
If you mean that the "closed machine mental
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
Bullshit. Apple Corps see Apple Computers as a tool for making money. Yes, Apple Computer has agreed not to enter the music business. But is selling mp3-players and music "being in the music-business"? No. Selling mp3-players means that they are in the consumer-electronics business. Selling songs means that they are in the retail-business (although their "store" is in the internet). If they actually PUBLISHED music, then they would be in the "music business".
Average person does not even
Huh... (Score:3, Informative)
Well that's news to me, as I have a G4 tower and a G4 PowerBook at home which I have upgraded the memory in, as well as a Mac Mini, a G5, and this MacBook Pro on my desk here at work that I ha
Of COURSE it was fucking sarcasm!!!! (Score:2)
Yes it does. Try reading a few examples of better English than the shit that gets passed off as it on the 'net. Like... books? There are subtler clues than having to have lame "sarcasm tags" or even worse, "emoticons". For fuck's sake.
Re:Turned out "well?" (Score:2)
If you want complete openness you can buy your own parts and build a PC. If you want an Apple Mac, you have to buy their machine and no one is forcing you to do so.
In terms of pricing, this
Penny lane (Score:2, Interesting)
This gives a whole new dimension to the Penny Lane lyrics:
Story Update: Apple Corp issues statemnt! (Score:5, Informative)
There's a story at macworld uk [macworld.co.uk] and el reg [reghardware.co.uk]
Quote from Apple Corp's lawyer: So - the fight continues!
Re:Story Update: Apple Corp issues statemnt! (Score:2)
"We can still squeeze some blood from this stone! We have to! Ringo needs a new mansion!"
Re:Is it about the money? (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple corps had some relevance in the market 15 years ago when they made a deal with Apple Computers.
And for all those Apple Corps apologists that suggest Apple Corps market a macintosh coat
All those Apple Corps apologists?
There was only one person making a macintosh coat jibe (me!) and I'm not an Apple Corps apologist.
The Judgement in Full -page 1 (Score:2)
From Times Online [timesonline.co.uk].
Apple Corps v Apple Computer: judgment in full
Neutral Citation Number: [2006] EWHC 996 (Ch)
Case No: HC03C02428
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
CHANCERY DIVISION
Royal Courts of Justice
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
08/05/2006
Before:
MR JUSTICE MANN
Between:
APPLE CORPS LIMITED, Claimant
and
APPLE COMPUTER, INC, Defendant
MR. G. VOS Q.C., MR. D. ALEXANDER Q.C. and MR. R. MEADE (instructed
Re:Story Update: Apple Corp issues statemnt! (Score:2)
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:2)
It would be interesting to see how Apple Computer responds to that, since they haven't sold a product with "Macintosh" in the name for many years. (PowerMac, iMac, PowerBook... the last "Macintosh" I can think of is the beige 1997-era Power Macintosh G3).
(I realise that by "Apple Corp" you mean "Apple Corps")
-b
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:3, Funny)
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is Pot.
Re:Um, no (Score:2)
Cute little A.C. - is that the best you could come up with?
I said 'joke' because the following really doesn't flow very well: Now, this has gone far off-topic enough. (Feel free to mod me "virtuous" here)
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:2)
Don't even bother to try.
Don't worry Ilgaz, it's something I'm attempting to rectify.
I will single-handedly save slashdot with this nick (my plan is starting to work already!)
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:2)
Feel free to try though
Oh btw funnily enough, only thing creating problem on _my_ system is the part he coded. Evil!
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:2)
hahahahaha
I bet he did it deliberately!
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:5, Funny)
Even better, call it eMacs and bundle it with GNU/Herd and Emacs.
Re:If I were Apple Corp... (Score:3)
*snort* - that would be funny! I'd distribute it with Darwin over GNU/Hurd tho' - for extra (Alanis Morissette style) irony points. (Plus, you could actually [kerneltrap.org] ship it)
Re:Great (Score:2)
Well, they got a legal bill of 5 million pounds to pay for... at least that will keep the lawyers happy.
Retail, not music (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple Computer is in the music business, then so is 7-11 for selling cheap CD's in the store.
Apple computer is in the retail business, not the music business.