iPod nano Owners In Screen Scratch Trauma

wellington map writes "TheRegister reports iPod nano users have discovered that it is unbelievably easy to scratch the screen, which quickly makes the colour screen all but useless for viewing album art and photos stored on the machine. Apple's discussion forums are already host to hundreds of threads on this topic."

When will people learn?

[jrockway (229604)]

Always wait until the second generation to buy from Apple. This has been true for years, and it is apparently continuing. iPod nano 2.0 will cost less, have more space, and probably a better screen.

It hardly ever pays to be an early adopter. Let other people work out the bugs, then enjoy the fruits of their labor :)

(Posted from a Rev. 2 15" Powerbook G4 :)

Re:When will people learn?

[pgpckt (312866)]

I see that we are now on stage 22 of the apple product lifecycle, to wit:

The obligatory "I'm waiting for Rev. B" discussion appears in the Mac forums. People who've been burned by first-generation Apple products open up their old wounds and bleed their tales of woe. Unsympathetic technophiles fire back with, "if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. pussy." Everyone has this stupid argument for the twenty-third time.

http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/ [misterbg.org]

Re:When will people learn?

[EpsCylonB (307640)]

It hardly ever pays to be an early adopter. Let other people work out the bugs, then enjoy the fruits of their labor :)

Of course if everyone did this there wouldn't be a second generation.

I guess we all do owe the early adopters some sympathy.

Re:When will people learn?

[CrudPuppy (33870)]

or invest $0.50 yourself and buy some 3M clearbra made to cover the front surfaces of cars. peel, stick, trim.

Re:When will people learn?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (613870)]

iPod nano 2.0 will cost less, have more space, and probably a better screen

Wow! You have profound insight into the industry. Ever thought of becoming a pundit and making TV appearances?

Re:When will people learn?

[jrockway (229604)]

I always put my 4G iPod into its own pocket but that thing is so scratched I don't even want to look at it. So if you were to ask me, I would say that iPods are not scratch resistant.

I realized that as soon as I opened the box, though. Something that shiny isn't going to stay shiny unless you put it in a locked glass case and never touch it. It's a music player (with a 1.5yr life thanks to the battery), people, not a Lost Relic Of The Past. As long as mine plays music, I'm happy.

If you want durability, get a mini. Mine still looks new, and I certainly don't go out of my way to not abuse it.

Re:What mini?

[Jasin Natael (14968)]

I'm looking forward to the Rolex(tm) Edition iPod nano, with 10k gold-plated clickwheel, obsidian faceplate, and quartz lens (the back will probably be polished titanium). It'll weigh about 2-3 times what the nano does now, and cost ten times as much, but it won't scratch.

Seriously, guys. It's a cheap gadget. It's a REALLY cheap gadget. Last time I checked, you couldn't BUY removable flash memory for the same $/GB as the 4GB nano. Unless you're in the Vertu (fancy-schmancy cellphones) crowd, just expect that an uber-cool gadget that you can afford might have a few flaws. It's still a good value on the grounds of functionality. If you want a super-flashy fashion statement, either wait for another vendor to copy what Apple has done, or protect what you have a little better.

--Jasin Natael

Re:When will people learn?

[shmlco (594907)]

It appears to be just normal handling. I went to an Apple store about a week after the announcement to see the Nano, and the display models that were just sitting on the counter were already incredibly scuffed and scratched. Made me wonder how often they were going to need to replace them...

Re:Blame yourself for wear & tear.

[Tibor the Hun (143056)]

I only remove the iPod from this protection when it is in the dock for syncing/charging. And I remove it slowly.
...my prescioussssss...

Re:When will people learn?

[by Anonymous Coward]

You're right - I totally can't read the 1:47 on the screen.

OK, seriously, WTF did you do to this? You scratched the hell out of the WHEEL... Which takes some effort.

Was this a diamond based candy wrapper, or what?

I got the nano shortly after it came out... and yeah, it has a few scratches, but you know what? I got it because I wanted a small form factor that had 4GB of non HD based memory. It sits in a pocket a good chunk of the time, and yeah, it gets a small scratch if you sneeze, but it's NO worse than anything else that's shiny. LIke the typical cell phone that ends up in someones pocket.

I'm an apple person, but I don't get you guys at all. This would be like getting a new car and then bitching that you need a new paint job when something incidentally scratches the paint. Take some damed responsibility, know that the "new car feel" is going to wear of very quick, and suck it up. Use it for what it was meant for.

Re:When will people learn?

[baryon351 (626717)]

I'm calling bullshit on that one too. arstechnica threw theirs out a car window at 50mph [arstechnica.com] and it's less scratched than the grandparent poster's image.

Something companies have to put up with. A meme gets out that iPod nanos are getting scratched more than white iPods and everyone wants in on a class action suit by rubbing theirs down with sandpaper.

More scratches on an iPod nano sitting in a pocket than on a nano being thrown from a car window at 50mph? I don't think so.

Re:Why can't Appleites hold Apple to a high standa

[baryon351 (626717)]

I have never figured out why owners of Apple products refuse to hold Apple to a high standard across the board.

I think it's the other way around. Apple owners complain about the smallest things. I have an 3D iPod, and it has the odd scratch on it, but nothing really noticeable. I put it down to being a white product, so it doesn't show scratches up as badly.

My 2GB black nano however, shows scratches more visibly. But it doesn't worry me because I also have a black shiny clock, a black shiny desk calculator, a black shiny PDA and another brand black shiny mp3 player (name withheld to keep the flaming down).

THEY ALL SCRATCH WORSE THAN WHITE PRODUCTS DO. The nano scratches just as badly as any of them, or no worse than any of them depending how you want to look at it. Black shows scratches far worse. Period. Apple-only users have never had to deal with a glossy all black product, so they're all in a mouth frothing tizz over it acting like all the other shiny black products on the market. It would be nice if it weren't this way, hell it would be nice if Apple were able to do what other manufacturers couldn't do, but they didn't. It's not perfect, but it's not a glaringly deficient design fault like many are making it out to be.

I like Apple's products, but their fanbase can be utter retards sometimes.

Re:Why can't Appleites hold Apple to a high standa

[anethema (99553)]

While black shows scratches and dirt way more than white, the issue here is about the screen material beeing way more prone to scratching. This has nothing to do with the black or white body.

Re:Why can't Appleites hold Apple to a high standa

[nine-times (778537)]

I have never figured out why owners of Apple products refuse to hold Apple to a high standard across the board.

You might think, at first, that it's because Apple users are brainwashed. However, the real problem is that they're incredibly picky. Take, for example, the Powerbook Ti, which had certain areas where the paint chipped off. When this became a known problem, owners went out and found replacement paint, being very careful to match the color exactly. A small market opened up, and people were selling paint specifically as "Powerbook Ti touch-up paint."

Now, has this happened on such a large scale with Sony, Dell, or HP laptops? No. Is it because Sony, Dell, and HP laptops don't ever have discolorations or chipped, faded, or worn away paint on their casings? No. It's because if you've owned a Sony laptop for 3 years, and a little paint gets worn away, you probably don't even notice. You just expect that something being carried around all the time like that will eventually have some wear and tear. Mac users, on the other hand, get incredibly upset that their little pride and joy has a tiny little flake come loose.

I'm sure it's the same issue here, though I haven't seen any pictures, I've just read reports that the nano scratches. Ho hum. My 4G ipod has scratches. Everyone I know who's owned an mp3 player for more than a few days, there's probably a little wear and tear somewhere. It's lost it's "new car smell". I bet the things still work and that you can still navigate the menu system. It's still a hell of a little device.

Which brings us back to why Apple owners are going to be forgiving: it's still a hell of a device. Like I said, Apple users are picky. They're annoyed by the fact that the products they buy have occasional flaws, but that's nothing compared to what they view as the mountain of flaws afflicting the products made by other manufacturers.

Re:It's easy to fix those scratches.

[utexaspunk (527541)]

i don't think sandpaper is what you want. probably diamond dust. my grandmother, who deals in antique glass, uses this thing that looks like an eraser that has diamond dust embedded in it. You just rub it on a scratched area and it smooths it right out.

Designer's Response

[Kawahee (901497)]

I remember seeing this recently and saying something along the lines that users should 'wake up' to the fact that they had this device in their pockets with their keys. He also laughed at the fact that the screen wasn't made from some high-grade polymer, which would be cheap enough to cover the square inch or so of the screen.

And let's not forget Apple is making these for a $100 profit, can they really not afford that extra 50c?

CAUTION!

[Kjuib (584451)]

There is Malicious Code in Parents Sig. Conforming to his sig will cause chaos to your web browser and all unsaved work will be lost.*

* Keep out of reach of children.

Re:Designer's Response

[NetDanzr (619387)]

Very true. But if the sales are more than 0.5% lower than their potential because of using cheap materials (assuming a $0.50 solution to the problem and $100 profit margin), Apple will take longer to recoup their costs. Advertising and R&D are sunk costs, and Apple needs to consider their total profits (profit margin x units sold) in order to recoup them.

Re:Designer's Response

[Takeel (155086)]

Don't forget that $100 profit has to cover:
* Packaging
* Shipping
* Retail margin

And hope to recover the costs of:
* Advertising
* R & D

I could be wrong, but isn't profit the money a business gets AFTER costs such as these are considered?

Re:Designer's Response

[shark72 (702619)]

"I could be wrong, but isn't profit the money a business gets AFTER costs such as these are considered?"

You're correct. When the GP wrote "$100 profit" what he really meant was "$100 bill of materials cost." Here's the article where he got his info [theregister.co.uk].

As counter-intuitive as this will surely sound, a 2:1 ratio of retail price to BOM cost is not great in this industry. I can think of at least five well-known, A-list PC peripheral and CE device companies who have a 3:1 ratio or greater.

Unfortunate really

[megla (859600)]

You'd think with all Apple's advertising resources, they'd have had "Tim from marketing" put it in his pocket for a day just to test it.
Obviously not. It does seem something of an oversight to launch the product way before the covers and cases are available too. I wonder how long it'll be before we see a 2G nano with modified screen coating...

Testing? QA?

[NineNine (235196)]

I'm curious, as somebody who comes from a manufacturing background... how did this product get shipped with such a glaringly obvious flaw? Does Apple test their products, or do they simply have a team of yuppie designers who send their designs to China, which in turn drop ships them directly to customers? Apple is going to have to announce a full recall, and I'm assuming, start firing people pretty quickly.

Recall? BWahahaha.

[by Anonymous Coward]

>Apple is going to have to announce a full recall

More like they'll write a support entry of the form "Don't scratch your iPod Nano. HTH. HAND."

Remember, Apple can do no wrong. If this statement feels odd to you, please report to your local Apple Store for re-indoctrination ASAP!

Re:Testing? QA?

[NineNine (235196)]

This thing is tiny, and is clearly designed to be put in a pocket (only geeks clip gadgets to their belt). If you put it in your pocket, the screen quickly becomes scratched to the point where it's unreadable. How is that acceptable? Should the letters on your keyboard wear off the first time you type with sweaty hands, too?

Re:Testing? QA?

[Rew190 (138940)]

The concept that you don't want to piss your customers off with such an obvious flaw is a very rudimentary one in the business world. Flaws such as that are found with the most basic of testing. Given Apple's problems with class action lawsuits in the past, one would believe that they would be taking care of obvious blunders such as this and put more effort into engineering their iPods thoroughly.

There are other music players out there, ya know.

Right you are, and when it becomes very well known that the iPod Nano scratches this badly, many other people are going to be aware of this as well.

Personally, I don't care if my iPod gets scratched. It's a music player, not a mirror in the Hubble space telescope or something.

The market will very likely not share your apologizing view, which is why so many people find it amazing that Apple could screw something like this up. You should take a look at some of the pictures going around. This isn't a matter the screen not being imune to scratches, it's about displays that are barely readable after a month of carrying around in a pocket.

I'll add that I've been a big Apple fan for a while. However, it's discouraging to see these obvious flaws pop up in Apple's work when I think about how badly I'd like to buy a Yonah Powerbook next year. Something like this isn't excusable from an engineering perspective even if its first generation.

Testing

[Aneurysm (680045)]

You wonder how much real life testing these things get away from a lab if the screens scratch within seconds and no-one has noticed. I would at least of hoped they would have got testers out and using them in the real world.

Re:Testing

[RradRegor (913123)]

That's what you'd think. But when I saw the development schedule for the Nano, I understood how something like this could have happened. I think it was months, not years they've been working on this. Less than a year is not enough time to do a lot of development, not to mention field testing. Its an amazing accomplishment to get a high volume product to market that fast, and things like this screen problem are the price you pay for taking that risk.

Best Quote

[gustgr (695173)]

Best Quote:

How am I supposed to use something "pocketable" if even my CLOTHES SCRATCH IT?

My nano

[sandstorming (850026)]

It scratches... but not from just being put into my pocket. They're making a mountain out of a hill. (not an ant hill... it is a problem) Buy a case. Simple!

Re:My nano

[CastrTroy (595695)]

The whole appeal of that nano is that it is so thin. What's the point of having an iPod Nano, if you have to make it thicker with a case. Maybe they should have made teh screen recessed a bit, and have some sort of piece that can be used to cover the screen.

Apple Fanboys

[jdc180 (125863)]

Read through those comments, some of them are just insane. Like one said they kept it in their pocket with a travel pak of tissues. The reply was "That would mark it no problem.... I think it is just something we will have to live with."

Another one says "I am not certain apple is responsible for that... freedom of choice"

My bet is that steve jobs could kill a baby with an ibook, and they'd defend him.

Re:Apple Fanboys

[BasilBrush (643681)]

I only touched my Nano whilst wearing white cotton gloves. Unwrapped the shiney thing from it's packaging and wrapped it in bubble wrap and cotton wool, then put it in a titanium case, and left it locked in my desk drawer for 24 hours. When I came back to it, it was horribly scratched. Who'd have believed it possible?

Re:Apple Fanboys

[Anonymous Writer (746272)]

My bet is that steve jobs could kill a baby with an ibook, and they'd defend him.

Current iBooks [apple.com] are equipped with Apple's Sudden Motion Sensor to instantly stop hard drive motion and protect data upon impact, so at least your data will be safe.

Polycarbonate scratches easily

[Ancil (622971)]

Despite being incredibly strong, polycarbonate is actually quite soft. You can try this yourself. Take a pair of polycarb safety glasses.. These things can stop a shotgun pellet, but you can easily scratch them by just using the edge of a quarter.

They should have used a more brittle (but harder) acrylic for covering an LCD screen. It's not like it has to be particularly strong.

Seriously! What a mistake.

[SuperficialRhyme (731757)]

As a chemist when I read in the register article:

"When the point was put to the head of Apple's iPod division, Jon Rubenstein - who in the past oversaw the development of the Titanium PowerBook - the one that killed off Wi-Fi reception, because metal cages do that - he replied: 'Nah, you don't really think that? It's made of the hardest polycarbonate... You keep it in a pocket with your keys?'"

I thought it had to be a joke. Apparently this is made of polycarbonate which scratches easily and this has been known for a long time. Apple probably just asked the supplier for their hardest material without taking scratching into account (basically they asked the wrong questions of their supplier). Admittedly an excellent supplier would have pointed out that a polycarb cover would scratch easily, but it's Apple's responsibility to do the research. I find it difficult to believe that no one noticed this in their tests of the device.

They'll have to do something to fix this I'd imagine. What a blunder.

Re:Seriously! What a mistake.

[SuperficialRhyme (731757)]

"Apparently this is made of polycarbonate"

Should read:

Apparently this is made of uncoated polycarbonate.

There are coatings which can make polycarbonate scratch resistant.

Apple Could Shit on a Pie Plate - I'd Still Buy It

[by Anonymous Coward]

I will continue to support Steve Jobs in all his endevours. At least it's not a Microsoft product. I'd rather push an Apple than drive a Microsoft.

Spray on fix?

[hazee (728152)]

Couldn't some sort of spray-on coating fix the problem? Might require a bit of masking tape around the screen while applying it, but still...

I seem to recall a few months ago that TDK (I think) developed a new ultra-hard coating to protect either Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs (can't remember which). Sounds like a suitable coating, since it obviously has to be optically clear. While it's probably best applied at the factory, I wonder if they could turn it into an after-market spray for iPods?

Toothpaste to the rescue!

[Snosty (210966)]

A response to this [slashdot.org] comment of mine about how to get rid of the scratches suggested toothpaste. I tried it and it actually works reasonably well with a bit of effort. After having scratched the front on the first day and subsequently used toothpaste to fix that I've been more careful since and have not noticed anything really since then.

Re:Toothpaste to the rescue!

[Apathetic1 (631198)]

You may also want to try Novus plastic polish. My dad bought some to use on the tables of our pinball machines and it works beautifully. My sister had a car accident that left a scratch all the way down the side of our Saturn - my dad used Novus on it and it's barely noticeable now.

Sounding like an ID10T problem

[Brento (26177)]

I've had mine in my pockets alongside keys, my cell phone, and my wallet at different times, and it's still as slick and shiny as the day I've bought it.

What's the secret? Until you get a case (you did order a case, right?) put the display side facing your leg. Hello, that's why one side is metal, for some protection.

If your hairy legs scratch the screen through your pants pocket, then you've got other problems.

This whole thing sounds like people who would carry a TabletPC inside a hard briefcase with their pens, calculators, and change jangling around inside, and then complain that the screen got scratched. Hello, it's an MP3 player, not a Rolex Submariner.

Re:Sounding like an ID10T problem

[gozu (541069)]

You have got to stop saying "hello". You sound like an airheaded teenage girl.

Focus on Industrial Design

[SecretAsianMan (45389)]

Hmm. I have noticed threads in the past discussing similar failure modes with other Apple products: PowerBook paint chips, PowerBook palm stains, PowerBook warping, iBooks getting dirty, iPod battery life, mouse ergonomics. Perhaps with the emphasis on industrial design, Apple has given real-lift usability testing a back seat.

In their software, too, there are similar issues. For the most part, OS X is an ingenious, very user-friendly operating system, arguably the best implementation out there of a desktop Unix. But there are some rough edges. For instance, keyboard navigation is incomplete and inconsistent across applications (e.g. Cocoa vs Carbon). Perhaps Apple would have noticed that issue in usability testing if they had included more keyboard navigation users, and specifically, people who spent much time doing keyboard navigation in Windows.

Really, I would like to see Apple succeed, but to do that, they may need to focus more on the usability and reliability of their products.

Brasso

[BlightThePower (663950)]

Use Brasso, the light abrasive normally used for cleaning brass. A little Brasso will bring a scratched screen up nicely and will also do for the back of the iPod as well. Don't be conned into buying more expensive preparations and products that people are trying to sell.

Enough bitching. Practical advice... try Brasso.

[John_Booty (149925)]

Alright, so the screen is easily scratchable. Enough with the bitching and finger pointing... what can you do about it?

Try Brasso. It's available in your supermarket and costs $3-$4 for what will amount to a lifetime supply if you're just cleaning your iPod.

I managed to drop my iPod Nano on asphault the day after I got it. The player skidded and bounced on the asphault and had some rather nasty scratches on both sides. Naturally, the player still worked perfectly since it doesn't have any moving parts but it looked like hell. Brasso worked like a charm. Here's what you do...

1. Put a drop or two of Brasso on a soft cloth
2. Use a lot of elbow grease to buff out the scratches. Brasso isn't a magic potion; it's actually a very gentle abrasive. You are effectively resurfacing the iPod so it's going to take a few minutes of work.
3. Ta-da!

Now, since you're effectively resurfacing the iPod, I imagine that there is a finite amount of times you'd want to subject your iPod to this. It will leave your iPod looking great though.

I've tried this on my iPod Nano (front and back) as well as my 3g 20GB iPod. Worked great. I imagine it would work on other models as well with the possible exception of the aluminum iPod Minis since their surface differs from the polycarbonate used on other models. Should work, but I don't know.

Uncoated polycarbonate? Who made that blunder?

[Animats (122034)]

Now that was dumb. Polycarbonates are strong, but not hard. The eyeglass lens industry solved this problem years ago. Even the bus window industry [trb.org] has solved this problem. Optical polycarbonate surfaces are routinely hard-coated [opticalfilters.co.uk], and an anti-glare coating is often added at the same time.

The cool solution, which Apple probably now has to use to get their reputation back, is sapphire [maintechsapphires.com]. That's what scratch-resistant high-end watches [rado.com] use. Put an 0.15mm sapphire layer on top of the polycarbonate, and you can dump the thing in with your keys without worrying. It's not that expensive for a phone or music player sized screen. Some of Nokia's high-end phones [msn.com] have a sapphire screen.

Of course, doing it right might cut into those 40% profit margins at Apple.

Use Clickie Eraser

[zentec (204030)]

One of those Clickie white latex erasers will remove the scratches.

A fix

[austad (22163)]

Novus plastic polish [noscratch.com]

I use this stuff to shop pinball machines. You can take plastic that's been rubbed on cement and get all of the scratches out with it. Just start with #1 and work your way up to #3. Works great on plastic headlight lens too. Amazing stuff.

Wrong

[PeeAitchPee (712652)]

iPod Nano found to be as scratchable as all previous generations! President Bush will be addressing the nation on this crisis within the hour!

Nope, there will definitely be a delayed response, because as some have already pointed out here before, George Bush hates the Mac people.

We can't!

[Anaphiel (712680)]

We can't post huge pics! The nano is impossibly small!