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Apple to Become Wireless Provider?
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:21 AM
from the everybody-else-is-doing-it dept.
from the everybody-else-is-doing-it dept.
nonsuchworks writes "Forbes reports on the possibility of Apple becoming a 'mobile virtual network operator,' or MVNO, in order to extend the iTunes and iPod brands into the cellular phone market. This would allow Apple to circumvent the cellular carriers who have so far balked at carrying the iTunes-enabled mobile phone." From the article: "It might sound far-fetched, but the pieces are in place for it to happen later this summer. Apple is already developing a hybrid iPod/cell phone with handset maker Motorola. And companies ranging from the Virgin Group to The Walt Disney Co. are proving that a new network model can allow all kinds of businesses to easily enter the mobile market."
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Yeah right (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
Or marketing a flash-based iPod.
Now if they'd only finally bring out a two button + scroll wheel mouse standard for their Macs!*
*Before I get flamed, let me explain my statement. It is my belief that if Apple finally brought out a two button + scroll wheel mouse, coupled with the always reliable style of Apple, Apple would pick up a lot of sales to the PC market and steal away marketshare from both Logitech and Microsoft, not to mention halt the trend of Mac users buying two button mice from the two previously mentioned companies. My argument has nothing to do with the fact that Mac OS and OS X are designed with the simplicity of a single mouse button in mind. I'm not mocking that; I'm only stating for the record that the vast majority of computer users prefer two button mice and Apple would be wise to begrudgingly accept this and market another sure-fire profitable item for all of us. Especially since Apple seems to understand Bluetooth the best out of all the manufacturers I've mentioned in my rant.
Parent
Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Insightful)
I think a more accurate statement is that they are *used to* two button mice. I use a PC at work (say 8 hours/day) and a Mac at home (say 1 hour a day) on a daily basis. The difference in interfaces between Windows and OS X is such that I simply never miss having a second mouse button in OS X. I'm not saying that one is better than another (security issues aside), it's just that they are different.
Parent
Re:Yeah right (Score:4, Informative)
I use PCs mostly, and Macs. The single button on the mice infuriates me to no end. I like to use scroll wheels when I'm reading web pages, and I like to use the right mouse button to right click to open up other browser windows as tabs in either FireFox or Safari. And during that time, I don't want my hand to be on the keyboard so that I can replicate what I can do with one hand on a two button + scroll wheel mouse.
It also bugs me that the right button option apparently doesn't work in Yahoo Messenger on OS X. I don't like having to do the whole "control + c" to copy text from a Messenger chat session window to paste elsewhere.
But yes, there are some that do prefer the single button.
Parent
Re:I bought a two button bluetooth wireless mouse (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do they need to go right clicking about when they have a hard enough time double clicking (witness Windows XP)? That's right, they don't, and even if they did, they wouldn't be sure how to go about it.
Nobody bitches about Dell or Gateway giving away relatively cheap, underfeatured mouses
Re:Mouse (Score:5, Informative)
Beginning computer users (beginners includes those who never become competent regardless of number of real life years they have used the system) have a great deal of difficulty with applications that utilize multiple mouse buttons. Because the apple ships with a single mouse button any program which expects to have beginning users cannot make use of multiple mouse buttons. The result is a less steep learning curve when people switch to Apple. On the other hand the other half of the user base is perfectly willing to install a multi-button external mouse and use context menus and or use keyboard + mouse combinations.
The result is that the system is essentially the same for advanced users however the ease of use is much higher for beginners.
Parent
hybrid iPod/cell phone (Score:5, Informative)
"hybrid iPod/cell phone" Ha!
Re:hybrid iPod/cell phone (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:hybrid iPod/cell phone (Score:5, Interesting)
And the fact that support for them is already in iTunes (yeah, I know it says iPod phone, but that's not the same as a "hybrid iPod/cell phone"):
http://appleinsider.com/image.php?i=itunesiphonep
There's no doubt that it's coming. But it won't be a hybrid iPod/cell phone.
Parent
It's about time. (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't wi fi/max is it though? (Score:3, Informative)
So if you were hoping for someone to finally break down and start providing 802.16, or make steps toward some other real city-scale wireless internet access protocol becoming a consumer reality, looks like you'll still be waiting awhile.
And from my limited knowlege of the subject, it seems like someone sitting in that MVNO seat rather than ta
Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs (Score:3, Funny)
MVNO
Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs and must venture further into FLAs.
This is an unfortunate start as it looks/sounds like
mv? no.
Re:Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs (Score:3, Interesting)
In this day and age isn't it just as easy to say (or type) Public Service Announcement as it is PSA? I'm t
Re:Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs (Score:3, Funny)
I thought they were called ETLAs...
Re:Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs (Score:4, Funny)
It is interesting how one can determine the age of many UNIX programs by looking at their age. Programs like mv, cp, sh and dc stem from the seventies, whereas programs like cat, sed, gcc, ftp and man where first introduced in the early eighties. While TLAs are still the most common, there has been some FLA early adopters like perl.
Parent
Cellphone iTunes? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cellphone iTunes? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I do. But my phone does it and I have ear pieces... I find it better when flying and other places to do that rather than drain my laptop batteries.
When's the last time a company built a cellphone just for the purpose of making and receiving calls?
Admittedly this is a mixed blessing. The one thing you don't want your phone to do is break when you're trying to use it as a phone. But modern phones definitely have that problem, and both my last two phones have either crashed or locked when trying to use it as a phone. That's definitely bad. But yet because I need the other functionality (calendars, lists, etc) because I refuse to carry around multiple gadgets I keep buying a multi-phone even though I know it's going to be less of a phone. Interestingly enough a good friend of mine complains constantly about just wanting a phone that works as a phone. All the time. What did he buy for his last phone? That's right... A treo.
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In other words (Score:3, Insightful)
So expect increasingly powerful phones, increasingly powerful mp3 players, everything else, but as soon as you suspect they might try to harness that power or color screen or brand recognition power to do anything useful, or suggest they could challenge the PocketPC's increasingly total dominance of its segment before it becomes impossible to enter the market, or suggest they could pull out some of the truckload of IP and good ideas they're sitting on from the Newton... GACK! NO! NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Re:In other words (Score:4, Interesting)
Kensington makes a Bluetooth iPod adapter. Bundle an Apple branded version with a Bluetooth enabled thumbpad keyboard. For future iPods, they could make the screen larger and offer a separate stylus if the screens were touch sensitive.
But there are also wired remotes for the iPod currently. A wired keyboard would also be doable.
Parent
showing that it can work? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a big market for a company to jump into. Apple may be doing well, but they are no Virgin or Walt Disney, and they don't have those kind of resources.
Apple has surprised us all before at one time or another, but I'm going to say it anyway: I don't think this would happen.
Simple. Team up with Walmart. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Simple. Team up with Walmart. (Score:4, Insightful)
Walmart would likely disallow what it deems to be "inappropriate" traffic to flow over its network.
Parent
An interestesting pulled from the ass idea (Score:5, Interesting)
But if nothing else, it's a very interesting one. Several commentators, including Bill Gates, have stated that they believe that the cell phone will overtake the iPod. You're more likely to carry around a cell, it has an established system of purchasing music (among other things), and so on.
Granted, I still take that with a heavy grain of salt, considering that my own PDA/phone (Treo 650) tends to go about a full day on the charge, and that's from a heavy user who uses it for email, AIM, speech, ebook reading, notes, calendar, and so on. I have to make sure I plug it in before I go to bed. My iPod lasts a bit longer (though if I used it as much as the Treo, it would probably die as quickly, if not faster). The iPod is just a better interface for music, and crappy for all else.
So the concept that Apple could go after the wireless market isn't so far fetched. Would anyone have thought of them a major player in the music industry? They have a brand name that's good (if not growing), and it would be a good way to suppliment the PC business. And it would remove some problems. Right now, according to the rumors, most wireless carriers don't want to carry the iTunes Mobile Phone because it would cut into their business.
So, fine: Apple makes their own service and gives the finger to the phone companies. How many iPod users (and Mac heads) would switch?
For it to work, they would need:
Capital - check, they still have a few billion left in the bank.
Manufacturing - check, not a major problem
Engineers - check, though they'd probably need to hire some
Wireless access points - Hm.... That may be a reach, but as the article points out (yes, I did RTFA) if Disney can do it, so can Apple. Whether that means they go out and buy someone, or just buy up/rent the wireless access points, they certainly have the means and the business acumen. Jobs has demonstrated the ability to negotiate in the past, if done right (say like the current Sprint model I'm using, where $40 gives 500 minutes, and an extra $15 gets me unlimited Internet access), they could make it work. Make the phones a combo phone/802.11 device for Skype/Gizmo like communications, and those Airports become all the more useful to their business model. Or start installing WiMax stations around the country for the same effect.
So, points to the author for coming up with a possibly viable idea. Will Apple do it? Probably not now - they have enough risk on their hands with the shift to the Intel processors and dealing with a potential loss of sales over the next 18-24 months. But if the wireless companies continue to play hardball with Jobs's (note to the picky: his name is Steve Jobs, the plural then becomes Jobs's, thank you) music domination plans, he might just do an end around.
We'll see. Most of this I'm pulling out of my ass, so of course I could be wrong.
First to predict... (Score:5, Funny)
Also, in 3 to 6 months Microsoft will apologize to their employees, customers, and vendors for falling so far behind as an MVNP and music distributor. But Balmer will commit to catching Apple, Google, and AllOfMp3.com within the next 3 to 4 quarters. It's Microsoft's top priority next to releasing Longhorn, WinFS, security, DRM, the next version of SQL Server, Exchange 2007,
Lastly, Apple frustrated with the iPOD to car stereo interfaces and refusal by many automobile manufacture to integrate the iPOD directly into their automobiles will purchase an Korean automobile company and begin manufacturing iCars. These cars will include new design innovations including ergonomic steering wheels and see through dash panels. Initially the automobiles will run on Honda gasoline engines, but Jobs will announce in the first 4 years of production that the iCar (and soon to be released iSUV) will switch to Toyota engines that can run on electricity, gasoline, jet-fuel, whiskey, and the sweat of some breeds of Tibetan mountain goats.
Step aside Dvorak I have spoken.
Alright! (Score:2)
Props to Apple for making me cool!
The BIG advantage... (Score:3, Insightful)
I would love to see tight integration with
Well since it is built into iTunes 4.9 (Score:4, Informative)
The phone has been "ready" for a while now. [engadget.com]
How about... (Score:5, Interesting)
Starting their own company gives them more control, but they also have all these other big companies that are going to try to run them out of business. However, if Apple sticks to its $.99 per song and allows people to use a full song for a ringtone rather than selling crappy midi files for $2.50 that play 10 bars of some obscure part of the song, they might put a dent in the other company.
I understand that Apple is trying to expand and stay one step ahead of the competition (especially with Microsoft wanting to get in on the market), but it seems like Apple is starting to wander out of its realm a little bit, which makes me think of another company that tries to do everything and usually ends up with a subpar product that is beaten by a company that focuses on that area.
Then again, if the other big phone companies aren't willing to play ball (which they probably aren't. Would you want to stop charging ridiculous amounts for a ringtone?) what choice does Apple have other than this one?
Hopefully they'll make a product that's fair to the consumer. Basically, I'd want good coverage, the ability to upload songs I've already purchased, and the same $.99 to purchase a song on my phone. Capacity for 100+ songs would be nice as well. Price doesn't matter since you can give it away for a lot less than it costs when you make someone sign a service plan for a few years.
If it met those conditions, I might consider getting one.
Re:How about... (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I've read, iTunes Mobile is Java based. Apple could really piss off the mobile phone companies by offering it as a free download through the iTunes Music Store and then have links to the Apple store to sell the various cables for the different mobile phones so people could hook up their non-Bluetooth phones to t
Face it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, combining devices is also a thing of the future..it doesn't make sense to have 3 different devices with three different chargers that can't communicate, or communicate with some beat-arse protocol
It was destined that the iPod, since it is the defacto portable music player would become wireless, integrated with a cellphone, and eventually into a PDA/ICBM launcher.
The integration could go the other way, with the cellphone becoming the Mp3 player, but since the iPod is proven, and has a large fan-base (who in all likely-hood own cellphones), going in this direction will snare many more people.
Don't they already exist? (Score:3, Interesting)
Odd statement, considering that phones which interoperate with iTunes have already been spotted in the wild. [appleinsider.com]
Earbuds + a hands-free mic (Score:4, Interesting)
One device on the belt and one device for the ears.
good! (Score:3, Insightful)
Another 500 million? (Score:3, Funny)
but how does a (Score:4, Funny)
More Stuff At The Apple Store (Score:4, Insightful)
T-Mobile, next acquisition? (Score:3, Insightful)
T-Mobile is profitable and fast growing, however, the carrier is said to require a $10 billion investment in order to extend their coverage one standard deviation, to stay competitive with Sprint and Cingular.
T-Mobile and Cingular both use GSM with its IP like structure carries data with the minimum of encasuplation and overhead, and while Cingular has leaped ahead with its EDGE 3G rollout, T-Mobile is stuck at any average of 56k on its GPRS network.
T-Mobile doesn't have the subscriber base that Cingular has, but it does have enough network capacity for its community - unlike Cingular that is oversubscribed, and faces the challenges of integrating disparate network types - Analog, TDMA and GSM, into a single GSM-Edge network.
Anyway, if Apple can bring their brand perception to T-Mobile, and roll out custom handsets that take advantage of T-Mobile ubiquitious internet service, this may be the birth of a subscriber based iTunes on demand, allowing customers to listen to streaming, 40k AAC stream, today, over existing tech.
T-Mobile has the network, sufficient speed and is for sale - Apple has the product and the technology to make 56k worthwhile as a communications medium.
Re:T-Mobile, next acquisition? (Score:5, Interesting)
There's yet another reason for Apple to be looking at T-Mobile USA, even if it is only for a 50% acquisition/partnership. The reason being the T-Mobile "Hot Spot" network. And who is the big corporation with thousands of locations partnered up with T-Mobile on this and proudly displaying their logo on their doors? Yep, you guess it, Starbucks.
Bet you thought I was going to say "Frank Stallone" in some weird homage to Norm Macdonald, weren't ya?
The other reason to do so is to have gorgeous Catherine Zeta Jones as a spokeswoman for Apple. Yep, that's something to bite into...
Parent
Hold Music (Score:3, Funny)
Will they have a Tom Jones edition?
These are the burning questions.
Monotone (Score:5, Insightful)
We are teetering on the watershed, between mobile multimedia network terminals ("phones") which do whatever we want, constrained only by our imagination and sustainable monetization, and a vertical stack of monopolies controlling the pipeline to your senses. It looks like the odds, the big money, all favor the monopoly. Which sounds terrible.
Not nearly as cool as I thought.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Rather, they're talking about what amounts to "VARs (value added resellers)" in the world of computers.
Companies like ESPN, Disney or Apple just pay one of the existing cellular companies (like Sprint) for rights to use their infrastructure - and they resell customized phones that do some things the carrier doesn't wish to offer with the phones packaged on their regular plans.
Big deal!?! I grant that this might, indeed, be a way for Apple to get their way rolling out phones that play iTunes purchased music and still sync with PCs - but what else does it really offer anyone?
The cellular carriers are still going to call all the shots as far as prices to use their networks - so they're not likely to give Apple some sort of huge discount. Therefore, I'd say you can expect monthy pricing to be the same or higher than you pay now. And if you have issues such as poor reception, slow data xfer rates, or customer service hassles with your carrier, that won't change either.
This is great, but wait to see what Nokia does (Score:3, Interesting)
The other thing I love about this is that a big company, Apple, is trying to do an end-around of the telcos and the cable internet providers. And sure, I know they're not taking them head-on, and this is just a rumor at this point, but we gotta turn up the competition if we're ever going to see a really dynamic internet. The promise of a digital commons just isn't playing out like we'd want, and I think the "owners" of the networks are largely to blame. So kudos to Apple for seeing this and taking some steps toward busting up that logjam.
What a cowinkydink (Score:3, Interesting)
Heh. Maybe Ford is next?
ipod/cellphone hybrid has bluetooth? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detail
(i like how it even has a remote control on the headphones)
the $150 price tag is quite hefty.
with bluetooth, we're now open to any bluetooth headphones accessible!
Re:FINALLY! (Score:5, Funny)
Let's quit paying lip service to convergance and really get there folks!
Parent
Re:FINALLY! (Score:4, Interesting)
I want an iTunes capable phone, but I won't be buying it if Motorola makes it in a "candybar" form instead of the more popular "flip phone" style. From personal experience, I've received stronger signals from the flip phones. Motorola should bring out a RAZR 2.0 phone with more physical memory, an SD (or whatever) flash memory slot, and iTunes/AAC+Fairplay compatible phone. I might not want to buy tunes over the mobile network, but I certainly want to use my iTunes tracks as ringtones.
Issuing a "candybar" phone to the public at this point reminds me of Atari bringing the Falcon computer to the market in the old school 1040ST case when probably 90% of the interested buyers wanted the machine manufactured in a separate case/detached keyboard like the MegaST/STE & TT lines were. I'm sure the Amiga fanboys on here would also agree with the sentiment in relation to the Amiga 500 and 600 models... But I digress...
Parent
Actually... (Score:3, Insightful)
I could easily see one of these phones with 100 song capacity selling for as low as $150. You'll be selling your soul and signing a 2 year service agreement though.
My Dad got a phone for $80 with a plan. After he accidentally ran over it about a year later
Re:YES! (Score:3, Funny)
Hopefully it will come w/ a stylish and sophisticated laniard so you can wear the device around your neck... and of course the option to purchase other laniards that match your outfit.
Re:Slow (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Sync it with your iPod over a firewire/USB connection
3. Sync it with your cell phone over a USB/Bluetooth connection.
Who said anything about using a cell network for this? That's why the mobile network operators are so pissed.
You don't want Batman's utility belt !?!? (Score:3, Funny)
You've got that all wrong. Only geeks want to carry around a Batman's utility belt full of gadgets.
If you don't lust after Batman's utility belt, you're not the geek you think you are. At minimum, your belt should have cell phone and an iPod. Maybe a smallish GPS device? And of course, a grappling hook...
Sure, my wife would make fun of me. But if I came across a utility belt half