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Media (Apple) Media Businesses Apple

Hilary Rosen Gripes About iPod, iTMS 764

Posted by timothy from the now-we-just-need-to-establish-your-price dept.
mijkal writes "Hilary Rosen, the former RIAA CEO and chairwoman, has spoken out against Apple's "lock-in" with iPod and the iTunes Music Store." From the article: "The problem is that the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's." Ironically, she appeals to consumer rights and anti-monopoly tactics."
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Hilary Rosen Gripes About iPod, iTMS More

Hilary Rosen Gripes About iPod, iTMS

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  • Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:05PM (#12481450)
    I think my brain just died. Hilary Rosen is complaining about anti-consumer monopolies? This is like bizzaro world. The comments for this story write themselves, much like that Microsoft + Ford article about the car that will never crash.

    Jack Valenti made a similar about-face after he retired. Does the *AA install some kind of behavior modification chip in their employees that gets taken out when they leave? (can we get one for a couple of the Slashdot editors?)

    Well, she did insert that line about pirate sites being full of viruses (I get viruses form my mp3's al lthe time, god bless her), and soart of backhandedly danced around the fact that DRM and lossy music are the reason we can't transfer, so I guess the party line is stil lsorta there. Oh well.

    • Re:Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) <Satanicpuppy.gmail@com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:15PM (#12481596) Journal
      Steve Jobs, Let my Music Go

      Fricking cow. Why don't YOU and all the lawsuit happy pricks on your side let OUR music go.

      That's some fricking gall to blame Steve Jobs for Apples answer to the RIAAs psycho DRM paranoia.

      • Re:Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Rei ( 128717 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @06:13PM (#12482344) Homepage
        In Future News today, the RIAA headquarters in sunny Washington, DC was completely destroyed when a large mass of irony accidentally fell off an aircraft and crashed into the building.

        Rescue workers were quick to arrive at the scene, but surprisingly found no casualties.

        "Apparently, the building was only staffed by vampires - bloodthirsty creatures who feed on the blood, sweat, and tears of the living - and they proved immune to the effects of such irony" said a broke-musician turned fireman that was among the first to arrive at the scene.

        The irony broke free shortly after a Boeing-767 carrying lawyers to file papers against an entire sixth-grade class stopped at Ronald Reagan National Airport to take RIAA head Mitch Bainwol to a charity dinner for the school of the same children.

        According to witnesses, the irony could be seen by bloody everyone; however, apparently it was not visible from within the RIAA headquarters itself. Washington DC mayor Anthony Williams has discussed potential legislation to force all employees of businesses within city limits to remove their blinders during working hours.

    • A simple solution (Score:5, Interesting)

      by sterno ( 16320 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:22PM (#12481693) Homepage
      Fortunately for Hilary Rosen, there's a simple solution to this problem. All she has to do is go download a copy of Hymn, which will peel off all the license restrictions from the ITunes file. Then she can play her music anywhere.

    • Pot, meet Kettle (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:25PM (#12481730)
      free of the viruses of the pirate sites

      Her own organization, the RIAA, hires people to create and distribute those viruses to deliberately infect P2P sites. I wonder if Hillary Rosen ever met the truth.

    • This shouldn't surprise you (Score:5, Insightful)

      by phorm ( 591458 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:25PM (#12481731) Journal
      It's not about whether copyright is good or bad, it's simply this:

      Makes me/our company/our friends lots of cash, probably at your expense: good

      Gives you freedoms/etc at our expense: bad

      • locked into Apple's DRM != freedom (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @06:06PM (#12482259) Journal
        Now I'm not arguing that the RIAA is good or anything, and yes, it's just about money.

        But arguing that Apples DRM in any way means "Gives you freedoms/etc at our expense" for RIAA, is the epitome of hypocrisy. It gives you exactly what freedom? The "freedom" to have exactly one choice of online music?

        Apple _is_ using two products in a way that each keeps you pretty much locked into the other. Same as, you know, Microsoft loves to use its own products to enforce a monopoly.

        In fact, _that_ is MS's monopoly. It's not just "waah, they're evil because they have money", it's that each product reinforces the other, as to (A) make it painful to break out of that vicious circle if you're already hooked, and (B) make it a painfully high entry barrier: if you want to compete with Windows you have to pretty much compete with all of them at the same time.

        So why is it good and "freedom" when Apple does it?

        • So why is it good and "freedom" when Apple does it?

          Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's as simple as that. I support Apple because keeping the forces of DRM divided makes them weaker, and gives us a better chance of winning.

          If iTMS didn't exist, we wouldn't be able to use the argument "DRM == incompatibility," MS DRM would be standard, and would quickly become so entrenched that we would have lost the "War On Culture Terrorism" already. We need this, because it keeps the issue in the pub

    • Want to know what's REALLY funny? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Moryath ( 553296 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:28PM (#12481765)
      The problem is that the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's. But those other music sites have lots of music that you can't get at the iTunes store. So, if you have an iPod, you are out of luck. If you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod. But then you have also degraded the sound quality. How cruel.

      Y'know what? None of my MP3 collection has "degraded sound quality."

      If any of the stores wanted to, they could easily sell me MP3's, which would go onto my iPod no problem. But they won't, because the RIAA still haven't wised up that consumers don't want their DRM crap.

      No, now we get Hilary Rosen, mouthpiece of the RIAA for so long, whining about how "Apple" stops their songs from going onto the iPod rather than whining about how none of the stores are willing to sell a song in a format the iPod will take.

      Give me a fucking break.
      • Y'know what? None of my MP3 collection has "degraded sound quality."

        Actually, every single one of your MP3s has "degraded sound quality." The nature of MP3 (and any other lossy compression method) assures this.

    • Re:Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by petsounds ( 593538 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:32PM (#12481797)
      Don't be so naiive. Rosen is a professional shill. She's probably getting paid by Microsoft (since she namechecks them in her post) or whomever has the lack of wisdom to hire her to spin the iPod in a bad light in favor of "open" systems.

      I guess she wasn't aware of the fact that there is an option in the iTunes menu which says "Convert selection to mp3," instantly making your AAC files into cross-platform mp3s. And she probably didn't realize her statement that "even if the cheapest one costs a few hundred dollars" is invalidated by going to the Apple website and seeing that the base iPod shuffle costs $99.

      • Re:Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Scruffeh ( 867141 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:53PM (#12482084)
        Ahh. Bless MS and their iPod bashing! Let us not forget gems such as, 'Let a professional make your next playlist.' and '...some come with extra accessories like high-quality headphones, a belt clip, or an armband. Because most of these features are included at no additional cost, make sure the device you choose is filled with these fun extras.'

        http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/devi ces/flash.aspx [microsoft.com]

        I felt so much more educated after reading that! I wish my iPod had fun extras and I wish a professional would make my playlist for me because I miss adverts before, after and during my music!

    • Re:Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Spodlink05 ( 850651 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:33PM (#12481815)

      I think my brain just died.

      Then you're perfectly qualified to work for the RIAA.

    • HOAX (Score:4, Informative)

      by muzzmac ( 554127 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @06:21PM (#12482396)
      It's a hoax. Funny too.

      The (Like Microsoft) was the clue for me.

      The Reg covers it off.

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/09/rosen_joke _jobs/ [theregister.co.uk]

      • Re:HOAX (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Freeptop ( 123103 )
        The article in the Register which you link to exhibits some very poor journalism. It asserts that the entire Huffington Post is a hoax - a satire website with fakes impersonating well-known people, entirely on the basis that the author of the Register article can't believe that Hilary Rosen would be, well, hypocritical. Did the author contact Arianna Huffington to confirm that the new blog site was actually a hoax? Did the author contact Hilary Rosen to confirm that she wasn't the actual author of that arti

      • Re:HOAX (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Absentminded-Artist ( 560582 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:27PM (#12484320) Homepage
        Are you serious!?! Where is your sense of humor? Don't you realize the Register article is the satire!?! For crying out loud! They are mocking Huffinton's entire website by stating that Rosen's article is so obviously funny it must be written as a joke.

        Rosen's article is so obviously a commercial for Microsoft's DRM that I couldn't bring myself to read anything else Huffinton's site offered. More shills no doubt.

        Try rereading the Reg's article with a tongue planted firmly in your cheek. (^_-)

  • or... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Doktor Memory ( 237313 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:05PM (#12481461) Journal
    ...non-DRM mp3s that you get from any other source. Ahem.
    • Ah-ha. This is clearly a plot to get people to refute them by providing anecdotal evidence of getting non-DRM'd mp3s.

      Would save them the trouble of hunting down pirates themselves. These people are clever.

    • yeah... (Score:3, Informative)

      by spiritraveller ( 641174 )
      She just forgot to mention the RIAA's competitors... must have slipped her mind.

      emusic.com has the best deal on REAL mp3s, and you can play them on an ipod or any other "MP3 player".

      • Re:yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Skye16 ( 685048 )
        I noticed a bunch of problems with my emusic.com mp3s. The ends of songs were shifted over a second or so. The end of song 1 would be at the beginning of song 2, etc, etc.

        I stopped subscribing to them.

    • Re:or... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Total_Wimp ( 564548 )
      Yeah, she's pretty funny.

      She calls for Apple to "open up" the iPod, but then conviently forgets to mention that if all the other stores sold unencrypted MP3s they'd play on the iPod right now.

      Almost every digital music player on the market is currently open (even sony is getting their act together) as long as the format is MP3. Her complaint is the equivelant to someone opening up a hydrogen fuel station today and complaining that no one has cars that work with hydrogen. No shit, Shirlock. If they ope

  • Who is kidding whom, Hilary? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The I Shing ( 700142 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:05PM (#12481463) Journal
    "... the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's."

    I think Hilary Rosen might have encountered the concept of telling the truth at a party once, but didn't get beyond the cursory introduction.

    I went ahead and RTFA to make sure the above statement wasn't being taken out of context by the post. It wasn't, and it might actually kind of be true if one is absolutely insistent on playing only AAC files on the iPod. The actual truth, which Hilary Rosen would likely not be willing to acknowledge without the threat of slow torture death behind it, is that the iPod works with sample MP3s that you might legally download from a band's website or any one of a gazillion legal indie music MP3 sites, and also works with audiobooks downloaded from Audible.com. But Rosen probably considers any music by an unsigned band to be beneath putting on an iPod anyway, and probably isn't too interested in audiobooks, either.

    Other ridiculous ideas in the blog entry include: "He [Steve Jobs] is as laconically casually cool as Bono" and the idea that the iPod constitutes a monopoly. First off, Steve Jobs might be a little bit hip, but he's not cool except to the Mac faithful, the only ones who really care who he is (that's my opinion, though. I might be wrong). Second, a monopoly means that no-one can buy or use a product or service type by anyone other than a specific company. Ma Bell had a monopoly on phone service. There wasn't an alternative. There are zillions of alternatives to the iPod. The iPod is just really, really popular. That doesn't make it a monopoly.

    The oddest thing to me is that no-one who would actually seek out and read Hilary Rosen's blog would be the least bit fooled by the misstatements in it.

    • Second, a monopoly means that no-one can buy or use a product or service type by anyone other than a specific company. Ma Bell had a monopoly on phone service. There wasn't an alternative. There are zillions of alternatives to the iPod. The iPod is just really, really popular. That doesn't make it a monopoly.

      Sorry, that's not the Slashdot and Judge Jackson definition of a monopoly.

  • Irony? Dripping with molten iron! (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:05PM (#12481464) Homepage Journal
    Huffington Post? I knew that name rung a bell, some background [ojr.org].
    She writes: "I've got a confession to make. I'm talking weak-in-the-knees infatuation. But it's not Brad or Orlando or Colin or any of the cinematic hunks du jour who have set my heart aflutter. No it's Atrios and Kos and Joshua Micah Marshall and Kausfiles and Kevin Drum and Wonkette. Bloggers all. Yes, when it comes to the blogosphere, I'm a regular cyberslut."

    Ok, tell us something we can't guess. So you have a new rag and you've got Hilary Rosen writing thus:
    I spent 17 years in the music business the last several of which were all about pushing and prodding the painful development of legitimate on-line music. Now, the music fan is on the cusp of riches in their options - free of the viruses of the pirate sites.

    Oh my... Has anyone seen my unawarded Humanitarian of the Millenium trophy around? I've got someone to give it to at last.
    There are lots of places you can go for great music at good deals and with a deep catalog of songs from over the last 20 or 30 years. MSN.com, Rhapsody.com, aolmusic.com, even walmart.com. There are little players to make your favorite music even more portable than ever starting at as little as 29 bucks. Most every player device works at every one of these "stores" and it is pretty easy to keep all the songs, no matter where you got them, in a single folder or "jukebox" on your computer.

    Or all your favorite pirated mp3's seems we've been here before.
    But not the iPod. Most agree it is the best quality player on the market even if the cheapest one costs a few hundred dollars. The problem is that the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's.

    !Cough! Surely you jest, Hilary! What next will you be pushing? Fair Use? You commie!
    But those other music sites have lots of music that you can't get at the iTunes store. So, if you have an iPod, you are out of luck. If you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod. But then you have also degraded the sound quality. How cruel.

    Yeah, how cruel. Seems when the big labels were withholding everything from us consumers we were somehow evil to rip and make our own mp3's. Only able to get what the powers that be (RIAA) felt we were worthy of (mostly whatever manufactured band or act they were currently exploiting and wanted us to buy into like so many lemmings. "Puny mortal, you are only worthy of Britney Spears Greatest Dance Songs of Last Week, with CD-ROM destroying anti-copy-protection, now BUY!") Now the stiletto heel is on the other foot?
    keeping the iTunes system a proprietary technology to prevent anyone from using multiple (read Microsoft) music systems is the most anti-consumer and user unfriendly thing any god can do.

    UltraGasp! This just can't be the same Hilary Rosen! Impostor!!!
    Why am I complaining about this?

    I dunno. Maybe you're a consumer now. Or just another cyberslut.

  • well that's odd (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rebug ( 520669 )
    My bleep [bleep.com] downloads seem to play fine on my iPod.

    Should I file a bug?

  • Huffington Post shows up on /. their first day ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Hulkster ( 722642 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:06PM (#12481472) Homepage
    The article is from the Huffington Post [huffingtonpost.com] the "blog of various mainstream media celibrities" which launched today. Impressive that they make Slashdot outa the gate - sounds like the lines are blurring even more between the traditional MSM media and the new online media. It will be interesting to see if they are able to maintain the daily grind of interesting articles ... or if they eventually becomes as exciting as watching grass grow ;-) [komar.org]
    • Not that surprising, when you figure that the majority of Slashdot editors fall on the Democratic side of the fence...

      Ms. Huffington went to great lengths to insist that she's commissioned a multitude [latimes.com] of Democratic party aligned writers to contribute articles to her site.. There are 14 authors on the front page today, and we've got: Tips from Cronkite on how to fix the Democratic party, Sen Corzine blasting Bush on not supporing one of his bills, Huffington making fun of Tom Delay, Rep Markly criticizing

  • Childish (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TurboStar ( 712836 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:06PM (#12481477)
    The RIAA asked for DRM. iTunes gave you DRM. Apple sees a way to leverage this technology to their advantage and you cry foul? Grow up.

    • Re:Childish (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DarkHelmet ( 120004 ) * <mark&seventhcycle,net> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:19PM (#12481647) Homepage
      See, the RIAA only wants DRM that is to their benefit. If a person is going to be encouraged to download an mp3 off the Internet in order to listen to their music unincumbered, it points the person in the direction of piracy (even if they do own the song under fair use).

      I'm absolutely sure that the RIAA would love people paying for 5 copies of the same song, but at least Rosen is coming to realize that people just won't do that. If a person downloads Kazaa in order to get an unlocked version of a song that they own and in turn finds 50 songs that they don't own, then it's flagged as a loss.

      Every spokesperson acts and rallies in their own company's best interest. It's a fact of business, and a fact of life.

  • Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:06PM (#12481480)
    So what, does Warp Records just not exist? [bleep.com] And what about all those people all over the internet distributing mp3s of their own personally recorded music legally? Do they just not exist?

    Oh, wait, I forgot-- those people aren't RIAA members. So I guess to Hillary Rosen, they don't exist.

    Still, it seems awfully odd that "can play anything but WMA and FLAC" means "can only play personally ripped music and iTMS purchasers".

  • Clueless? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:06PM (#12481482) Homepage Journal
    The problem is that the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's.

    Hmm... And whose fault would that be? If the Record companies didn't require DRM we wouldn't have to worry about this. Or does she want Apple to open up their DRM scheme?

    • Wrong lock-in (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think whatever she would claim, she actually isn't worried about consumer lock-in. What she's worried about is producer-side lock-in. The RIAA members are locked in to the iTunes Music Store; they have to do business with the iTMS or their competitors will get the purchases there instead. The RIAA probably isn't happy about this. They're used to being able to dictate terms (like "you will carry X, Y and Z but not W because we said so") to retailers, not having the retailers dictate terms to them (like, "c

    • Re:Clueless? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by linuxtelephony ( 141049 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:22PM (#12481679) Homepage
      Now that the iPod and iTunes is an unquestionable success, could it be that the RIAA sees Apple as what they used to be? A primary controller of music distribution. And, we know RIAA knows how powerful that can be. I think they are afraid iTunes/Apple has a little much perceived power.

      Afterall, it is easier for RIAA to "control" online music if there aren't any individually strong serious players. With a couple of really strong players in that field, it could become more difficult for RIAA to stay the master of their domain.

      Just a thought, opinion really. No facts to back it up.

      • Re:Clueless? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by TrippTDF ( 513419 ) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {dnalih}> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:32PM (#12481809)
        One of the great things about mp3 is that a lot of bands can get bigger attention without having the distribution network (I.E. CD stores) that they used to need. Apple is starting to control music the way the RIAA used to. If they wanted to go "all the way", they should make it easy for any band to open up shop and sell through the iTMS.

        The current generation of music stars will stick with their labels (or be forced to), but new, unheard-of bands can gain popularity and make money off their music. They won't need a label, other than iTMS, and the RIAA will go down the tubes real quick.

        Then Apple will have a stranglhold on the music industry. They will then force every song added to the iTMS to include a lyric about buying a Mac. Soon, Microsoft and Dell will crumble. Apple will be left standing along in a sea of dead computer companies, all because of a freaking music player.

      • Re:Clueless? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @06:31PM (#12482506)
        Yes, well. If Jobs really wants to kick the RIAA in the teeth, all he has to do is open a chain of professional recording studios. All Mac based, of course (hell of a plug for the Macintosh in and of itself) and hire some quality engineers to staff them. Implement a torrent-style download system so distribution costs are effectively zero and marketing as such is handled by iTunes. He would probably attract every non-aligned musician (and many of those who are under contract to RIAA members) in a heartbeat. And if he paid musicians, say, 75% of the sales price of the music and kept the rest ... well. iTunes might make a profit (rather than being the near-loss-leader that it is.) If nothing else that would truly put the fear of God into the RIAA.

  • From TFA (Score:5, Funny)

    by SithLordOfLanc ( 683305 ) <dmocrap@gmail.com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:09PM (#12481519)
    "If you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod."

    The former head of the RIAA pointing out that the only way to listen to your legally purchased music on an iPod is to break the DRM. That's rich.

  • Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by payndz ( 589033 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:09PM (#12481520)
    "The problem is that the iPod only works with either songs that you buy from the on-line Apple iTunes store or songs that you rip from your own CD's."

    And some obscure audio file format. What's it called? Oh, yeah. MP3.

    • Re:Problem? (Score:3, Informative)

      by kelnos ( 564113 )
      Remember, in Rosen's view, that's all the same thing. The only way to *legally* get any music that will play on the iPod is to:
      1. Rip it from your own CDs
      2. Buy it from iTMS

      Now, for #1, the *format* you rip to can be AAC, MP3, or (I think) WAV/PCM. But that's not really relevant.

      The real thing she's complaining about (and rightly so, though it's totally hypocritical) is that the only place people can *purchase* songs from the Internet and have them work on the iPod is from iTMS. Anywhere else that you

  • Hilary now complains about what she created (Score:3, Informative)

    by Gandoron ( 681748 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:11PM (#12481552)
    Hilary Rosen was in the position to fix the situation, but instead she helped create a locked-down DRM-prolific online music space. It's funny to see her complain about the exact problem that she put into place.

    Wasn't it easier when we all just had MP3's? Funny how that format works with everything.

    Good rebuttal
    http://www.corante.com/copyfight/archives/2005/05/ 09/hilary_rosen_laments_apples_drm_strategy.php [corante.com]

  • Source: Ariana Huffington's Celeblogs (Score:5, Funny)

    by mrex ( 25183 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:15PM (#12481600)
    I'd just like to take this opportunity to congratulate Ms. Huffington on giving a voice to the silently oppressed celebrities and powerbrokers out there, who have for so long struggled to get their valuable messages out to the anxious public.

    Truly, it warms my heart to see come to fruition the hopeful idealism of a youth spent dreaming of a world where who a person is matters as much or more than what that person is saying!

    Thank you, Ariana.
  • I own an iBook, I own an iPod, and I've never had any gripes about not being able to buy music online from anywhere else besides the iTMS. Why? Because Apple makes it easy for me to purchase a song and get it on my iPod with very little hassle.

    But hey, I'll take Hilary's advice here and navigate over to walmart.com and see what I'm missing by not being able to buy music from there. But wait, what this? IE 5.5 required to buy music? Well, gee, I guess Walmart is the paragon of a quality music buying service, even though I can't use their service because they only support one browser!

    This isn't about Apple's lockin with the iPod and the iTMS, this is about Apple's lockin vs. everybody else's lockin on Windows machines.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to have an approved player right now just to use Napster as well.

    • Re:Because Walmart gives me a choice ....right. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:23PM (#12481704)

      This isn't about Apple's lockin with the iPod and the iTMS, this is about Apple's lockin vs. everybody else's lockin on Windows machines.

      This is sort of correct. Except Apple lets Windows users join in on their lock-in and you're forgetting Real who would be happy to lock-in windows and mac users, but has not managed either.

      Actually, I do agree with Miss Rosen in that I think if we have to have DRM, it should be an open standard DRM that is not owned by MS or Apple. Of course it should be legally mandated an so MS can't break the law and embrace and alter it. On the other hand, I just buy all my music without DRM in the first place and I really wish the media would stop portraying DRM as having something to do with pirating. Anyone can pirate DRM'd music. If you can hear it, you can record it. This is about controlling what people who legitimately bought music do with it. And I think the RIAA has some very hard questions to answer regarding that. If only the media was not owned maybe someone would have the balls to ask them on camera.

  • Only works with itunes? (Score:5, Informative)

    by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:16PM (#12481622) Homepage
    Wow [audiolunchbox.com], that's [emusic.com] news [audible.com] to [bleep.com] me [livedownloads.com]. Who [epitonic.com] knew [betterpropaganda.com]?

  • That's rich (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jimfrost ( 58153 ) * <jimf@frostbytes.com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:25PM (#12481732) Homepage
    I can't help but be amused at this when my iPod is stuffed to the max, plus a whole lot, and I've never made a purchase on iTunes. I did have to rip every song on all of my hundreds of CDs, but that's only because the recording industry would not allow anyone to sell me the music in a form that I could use on any extant player.

    Jobs was unique in finding a way to make the harsh restrictions placed on downloaded music by the recording industry palatable to a wide audience and profitable to boot.

    Seeing as Apple took the risk and won, I think it's unreasonable to ask them to give up the fruits of their labors. As an Apple shareholder I'd hold Jobs culpable if he ever did such a thing. I say to Jobs: "Milk it for all it's worth." Especially since there are plenty of competitors out there to keep him honest. The iPod doesn't have a monopoly because Apple locked everyone else out of the market, ala Microsoft, it has one because it's better.

    If you don't like the fact that you can't play your Windows Media songs on the iPod, buy a different player ... or do what I do and buy the physical CD and convert it into whatever format you prefer. I get my CDs primarily from Amazon.com, but never from Apple.

    And Hillary, if you don't like the myriad proprietary forms of DRM on downloaded music, consider the fact that it's your fault it's there in the first place.

  • What she meant to say, "I was born yesterday" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by adzoox ( 615327 ) * on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:26PM (#12481741) Journal
    As reported by MacMinute:

    Former Apple executive (and former RIAA CEO and Chairwoman) Hilary Rosen has spoken out against Apple's iTunes Music Store, notes Slyck.com. "The new iPod my girlfriend gave me is a trap," said Rosen. "Yeah, it is great looking and I really love the baby blue leather case but when, oh when, will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?" She continues: "There are little players to make your favorite music even more portable than ever starting at as little as 29 bucks. Most every player device works at every one of these "stores" and it is pretty easy to keep all the songs, no matter where you got them, in a single folder or "jukebox" on your computer."


    "The new iPod my girlfriend gave me is a trap," said Rosen.

    Girlfriend??

    ______________________________________________

    "... when oh when will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?" "

    When the market dictates that this is a good business move. Right now, Apple can combat the RIAA on prices (read as lower prices for you and me) with such large marketshare.

    Also Ms. Rosen is free to walk in to the thousands of retail locations that sell CDs and rip them to her iPod at any time she wishes.

    "There are little players to make your favorite music even more portable than ever starting at as little as 29 bucks."

    Then go buy them! Apple isn't telling you to only buy iPods. By controlling the player and the store, Apple is able to sustain a successful business model - NO OTHER COMPETITOR IS MAKING MONEY!!!

    "Most every player device works at every one of these "stores" and it is pretty easy to keep all the songs, no matter where you got them, in a single folder or "jukebox" on your computer."

    But not as easy as the iPod ... nor as high quality GUI and combination as iTunes provides. Besides those other stores do not support the Mac. If they sold songs that supported the Mac in a format that played on the Mac, then as a CEO of a company that produced macs - I might be willing to open up MY store.

    Also, tell me how many custom cases & accessories I can find for the Creative Muvo again?     ...

  • Damn Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PierceLabs ( 549351 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:28PM (#12481759)
    for making APIs that lock people into Windows, Windows Media for not working on PalmOS, Torvalds for not making the Linux Kernel applications run on Mac OS, etc.

    Are we now advocating that all content must be available for all platforms? That's just silly.

    • Re:Damn Microsoft (Score:3, Interesting)

      by argent ( 18001 )
      Are we now advocating that all content must be available for all platforms?

      About ten or twenty years ago it was looking like we were headed that way. Common formats, common APIs for convertors (EVERY modern OS can run almost all straight UNIX command line tools, without more than a thin wrapper to change the names of the calls... that was sure as hell not true 20 years ago), the whole world was on track to tear down every last barrier between communication, at least for computers. And then it ground to a

  • Doesn't make sense (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wazzzup ( 172351 ) <astromacNO@SPAMfastmail.fm> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:34PM (#12481836)
    All of the other stores that she seems to be arguing for require Windows.

    That's a monopoly. That's lock-in. Exactly what she's arguing against.

    As a Mac owner, I won't be shopping at the alternatives any time soon.

  • Look closer... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Otto ( 17870 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:39PM (#12481887) Homepage Journal
    You really must be blind not to see the idea behind this one.. She's pushing Microsoft WMA10 format. Simple as that.

    WMA 10 has some nifty little features with it:
    - Specifically designed such that *only* Microsoft approved devices can receive the music. They don't make the device themselves of course, they just sell licensing schemes.
    - What do you think that whole "Plays For Sure" certification is all about? It's about the most restrictive DRM ever developed. A "Plays For Sure" device is certified to be capable of ERASING your music, by itself, if you don't reenable it every so often by connecting it to your computer. How do you think the new Napster-To-Go actually works?

    She states it pretty clearly here, in fact:
    If you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod.

    Exactly. You have to remove that violently horrible DRM in order for Microsoft's products to work on your iPod. Let's not forget that Microsoft WMA10 came out into a market where the iPod was king. They're not interested in compatibility, they're interested in owning the market by owning the format and controlling the devices and stores themselves that way.

    I admit that Apple has been a bit stupid with regards to compatibility. Specifically breaking Real's Harmony software should have been beneath them.

    However, if walmart.com wanted to sell AAC files, those AAC files would play on the iPod just fine. It plays un DRM-encumbered music like nobody's business.
    • She's pushing Microsoft WMA10 format. Simple as that.

      That's my take on it as well. The subtle message is that Microsoft used to be closed but is now open, while Apple is still closed.

      Let's not forget that Microsoft WMA10 came out into a market where the iPod was king. They're not interested in compatibility, they're interested in owning the market by owning the format and controlling the devices and stores themselves that way.

      Exactly. Hillary's assessment is particularly absurd given that you can

  • Follow the money (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hellfire ( 86129 ) <deviladv.gmail@com> on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:42PM (#12481933) Homepage
    The latest fad in american business and politics is to spread FUD like it's going out of style. In post 9/11 america, it works way too well, especially for a people who lost the ability to reason a long time ago, if they ever had it.

    This may seem like an incredibly stupid thing to say, but in reality you just have to follow the money. The RIAA doesn't like the iTunes model because Apple has this segment of the market locked up real nice because their system works so well for 90% of the American public. With power comes control of the cash. If the RIAA tries to leverage itself against iTunes, the egomaniacal Jobs will push back, because he likes using his power.

    Market power translates directly to money, for all those who don't understand why companies like Microsoft have $40 billion in the bank. Apple has a lot of say over what gets sold and for how much. Too much for the comfort of the RIAA.

    Bottom line, The RIAA wants to chip away at iTunes' power and get more of it themselves. The more power they get, the more money they get. And Joe consumer will buy it because only those educated in the supply chain of music understand the details.
    • You should definately get the "Extra Insightful" modifier tonight. It's all about the Money. The old school music distribution system is in jeopardy. Seems like Steve Jobs figured out a way to sell music all by himself. I like Steve. He is a benevelont dictator who allows us to put plain old MP3's on our Ipod as well as his Itunes music. Unlike the RIAA's buddy's (*cough* SONY *cough* Microsoft).

      I'll be the first to admit that Steve is a megalomaniac, driven by perfection, style, coolness, and ease

  • Clarification please (Score:4, Interesting)

    by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:48PM (#12482032)
    But those other music sites have lots of music that you can't get at the iTunes store. So, if you have an iPod, you are out of luck.

    To clarify, if you have an iPod (which plays mp3, wav, aac, and Apple's DRM aac version Fairplay.), you cannot download music from other websites like Wal-mart which uses the proprietary DRMed Windows format wma. So you want Apple to adopt somebody else's DRM?

    Remember this simple fact: The standard default file format for 99% of all portable media players is mp3 not wma not Fairplay. Apple supports that default format. They will not support somebody else's format that is not the standard.

    • Re:Clarification please (Score:5, Insightful)

      by amliebsch ( 724858 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @06:03PM (#12482207) Journal
      So you want Apple to adopt somebody else's DRM?

      Why not? Woudn't it be of benefit to consumers? Or better yet, how about Apple licensing their DRM liberally, like Microsoft does, so that we can play our iTMS songs on other-than-Apple devices? How would this hurt the consumer?

      • Re:Clarification please (Score:3, Insightful)

        by argent ( 18001 )
        Why not? Woudn't it be of benefit to consumers?

        Maybe a little, in the short term. The loss of competition over the longer term after Apple gets squeezed out of the online music business by Microsoft's bankroll, so we end up with Tweedlereal and Tweedlenapster pretending to compete, is probably not a good thing.

  • Theory (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @05:50PM (#12482051) Homepage Journal
    I have a theory. Hillary Rosen at one time was the evil record executive we all love to hate. However, after being debated and berated by copyfighters she saw the light. However, she was still on the RIAA payroll and couldn't openly express her true opinions. I'm making an optimisted educated guess when I say she quit because she didn't agree with the position her employment forced her to take. Remember when she almost walked out the wrong door at that debate?

    It seems rather likely considering that everything she said while she was in charge was evil and everything she has said since her resignation is singificantly more sane.

  • Apple DRM vs Microsoft DRM. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by guidryp ( 702488 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @07:16PM (#12482996)
    She is not complaining about DRM, she is complaining that Apple doesn't support Microsoft DRM. Why would they? They have the number one player and the number one service. Now if there was an Open DRM they might support that. But they are certainly not going to pay microsoft a licence fee for each IPOD.

    Does anyone really think she is interested in using all these other music services. Or is she just acting as a paid mouth piece?

    I wonder who is paying for her opinions these days.

  • Oh come on... (Score:4, Funny)

    by mehtajr ( 718558 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @07:18PM (#12483017)

    My iPod also works perfectly fine with tracks I ripped from other people's CDs.

    Cue RIAA lawyers in 5...4...

  • Cat got my tongue (Score:3, Insightful)

    by line.at.infinity ( 707997 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @08:34PM (#12483501) Homepage Journal
    when, oh when, will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?
    Since the very first iPods. Just buy *any* cd from your local business and iTunes will upload it to your iPod. There's a reason why iPod sales are good even in countries without iTMS, you know. From her own words: "[the iPod] works with ... songs that you rip from your own CD's. "
    it is pretty easy to keep all the songs, no matter where you got them, in a single folder or "jukebox" on your computer. But not the iPod. Most agree it is the best quality player on the market even if the cheapest one costs a few hundred dollars.
    Now I'm confused at how she describes jukeboxes, even more at how it has anything to do with Apple iTunes because iTunes always had the ability to automatically sort song files. Furthermore, a few hundred dollars is wrong grammer because iPod shuffles start at $99, then with student discount it can even be cheaper. (I bought my mini for aprox. $230 after an aprox $20 student discount). She also describes non-Apple players as costing "little as 29 bucks" but misleads her readers by not revealing the fact that those players have a rat's ass for storage capacity.
    If you are really a geek, you can figure out how to strip the songs you might have bought from another on-line store of all identifying information so that they will go into the iPod. But then you have also degraded the sound quality. How cruel.
    That's a twisted way of saying "burning songs to a CD first, then putting the songs onto my iPod will result in slight quality loss most people can't perceive." If she actually cares about degredation of sound quality, don't buy from online stores, Apple or non-Apple.
    I know Steve Jobs is a god.
    This must be one of the most obvious lies I've encountered in recent memory. She's deliberately making wild exaggerations and lies to make iPod look bad. If she hates Apple's iPod and iTunes so much...
    Look, I bowed at his feet when the iPod and iTunes was created because HE GOT THE BALL ROLLING. He is as laconically casually cool as Bono and makes really good cartoon movies too.
    If the RIAA morons allowed download sales of non-DRMed songs like some non-RIAA labels are doing now, their profits would go through the roof. She's also giving the false perception that it is Apple instead of the RIAA that's controling most of the CDs on the market and how they're priced.

  • The Bottom Line (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Steve B ( 42864 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @09:27PM (#12483804)
    Hilary Rosen complaining about the inconvenient side effects of DRM schemes is like Ted Kennedy complaining that his taxes are too high or John Ashcroft complaining that the government is poking into his private business.
  • It would be beneficial for the RIAA and online sales of DRMed songs if all players could support all DRM formats. This is not the case currently. Currently it sucks that the DRMed songs you pay for today for one player may not work for another player you may buy in the future. An audio format that cannot be played by third party hardware is probably historically unprecedented. She puts the blame on Steve Jobs for not adding DRMed WMA support to iPods. She attempts to describe this as if it would be something great for consumers, but I think this is an exaggeration, since in the end it is the RIAA that has Intellectual Property rights and control to the songs.

    She doesn't explain whether or not the problem goes both ways. I.e. non-Apple players (save the HP iPod clone) can't play DRMed AAC, just like Apple players can't play DRMed WMA. How much of the current situation is the result of companies' can'ts and how much of it is the result of companies' won'ts? Also, which format -- AAC vs WMA -- is more open?

  • RTFA (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sparkz ( 146432 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:24PM (#12484286) Homepage
    But keeping the iTunes system a proprietary technology to prevent anyone from using multiple (read Microsoft) music systems is the most anti-consumer and user unfriendly thing any god can do.
    What Rosen is saying is that iTunes doesn't support Windows Media (with all the additional restrictions which that implies).
    It's there in black and white. "multiple (read Microsoft)"
    She's actually complaining that some bastard has the audacity to come up with a file format which isn't open for Microsoft to copy.

    The implication is that if iTunes dished out WMA, then she'd be happy, because MSFT are already bum-buddies with the RIAA. The rest is just whitewash.

    It's been a long time since I last heard anyone complain that a system is too closed, because Microsoft don't have the license to use it.

    I'm no fan of iTunes - it's still DRM'd music. I'd rather own a CD and the rights to the music on that CD - to play it in my car, at home, on my laptop, wherever I wish. Apple and Microsoft are apparently intent on denying these rights; from a PC speaker, MP3 will do okay for me. In the car, at home, I'll copy the CD, thank you.

    I don't download music which I don't already own (unless the publisher allows it - eg www.slidepheromone.com) and I certainly don't pay to download music, as the only options are limited-rights downloads.

    • The implication is that if iTunes dished out WMA, then she'd be happy, because MSFT are already bum-buddies with the RIAA.

      You also have to consider the fact that WMA is harder to break because it runs only on Windows and Microsoft has embedded Windows Media Player's DRM component (as of version 9) deeply in the kernel where it's much much harder to patch than iTunes, which is just an application.

      This isn't really a problem, because it doesn't really matter whether DRM is breakable or not, because buildin

  • For the last time.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mblase ( 200735 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:41PM (#12484419)
    but when, oh when, will Steve Jobs let me buy music from somewhere other than the Apple iTunes store and put it on my iPod?

    They do. They're called CDs. You still sell music on those, right?

  • Cry me a river (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Angst Badger ( 8636 ) on Monday May 09, 2005 @10:53PM (#12484496)
    You know, I've always been quick to jump on the Apple sucks bandwagon ever since they deep-sixed my first love, the Apple II, but in this case, I couldn't care less.

    Who but iPod users could possibly give a shit about anything related to iPods? Don't like the way Apple runs it? Well, there are plenty of perfectly workable competitors. They largely lack the fashionability of the iPod, but they work just fine and many of them are cheaper. Go get one and quit griping. There are also plenty of legal ways to get digital music online other than iTunes, and some of them have large collections and competitive prices. Go use them.

    Despite Apple's early lead, which will likely erode over time, this is one field where there is plenty of competition and consumer choice. What Rosen is bitching about, presumably on Microsoft's tab, is that everyone hasn't chosen Microsoft's lackluster offerings in this department.

  • This is straightfoward (Score:3, Funny)

    by obeythefist ( 719316 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @01:55AM (#12485605) Journal
    Quite easily explained.

    Rosen no longer works for the RIAA, therefore no longer gets all the free "demo" CD's.

    Where then is Ms. Rosen to get her free music from?

    P2P is the answer! But now she is upset that she can't play all of her "free" wma music on her iPod.

  • Is it April 1st again already? (Score:3, Funny)

    by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Tuesday May 10, 2005 @03:02AM (#12485905)
    Hilary Rosen speaking out for consumer rights and anti-monopoly tactics is like Jerry Falwell coming out in support of tolerance, understanding, and gay rights. She has to have been misquoted. There is no other possible explanation.

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