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Rave Reviews for Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger

Posted by Zonk on Thu Apr 28, 2005 07:38 AM
from the widgets-widgets-everywhere dept.
druid_getafix writes "The first mass market reviews of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger are trickling in with a big thumbs up for the release. Walt Mossberg of the WSJ says 'Tiger Leaps Out in Front' but complains about slowness of some applications - notably Mail. David Pogue of NYT says 'But with apologies to Mac-bashers everywhere, Spotlight changes everything. Tiger is the classiest version of Mac OS X ever and, by many measures, the most secure, stable and satisfying consumer operating system prowling the earth.' In related news Mossberg also covers the rising incidence of spam/virii in the Windows world and says '...consider dumping Windows altogether and switching to Apple's Macintosh...'. Previous reviews of Tiger were covered on /. earlier."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:41AM (#12370207)

    unless there's a torrent..
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:43AM (#12370216)
    Some people were waiting on Tiger's release to find out. Does AltiVec handle the CoreImage stuff alright?
    • by beelsebob (529313) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:43AM (#12370886)
      The mini handles it all absolutely fine. It can render every single effect, but some of them are a little slow - the ripple effect has been manually turned off by apple because it runs at about 10fps. Two effects are slower than that, others are much much faster, but the mini can render every one of them fine.
      • by rogerbo (74443) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:40AM (#12370834)
        well you're wrong. A lot of Vj's (including me) are interested in
        using the mac mini for onstage use for realtime video software because it's so small.

        Stuff like Grid, Arkaos and Modul8 will run fine on a mini.

        And for a home user a mac mini should be fine for editing and rendering home videos with DV. New versions of those will have core image filters which we want to use.
  • by earthbound kid (859282) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:45AM (#12370231) Homepage
    welco... AHHH!! *mauled to death by a tiger for using a slashdot cliche*
  • Pity (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DenDave (700621) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:45AM (#12370235)
    Pity, I haven't got my copy yet. Can't wait... Spotlight will definetly change everything.. I wish we had this functionality on our windows network. Usually colleagues have a habit of making emssy files and storing things all over the shop, if we could search on meta data that would really help. From what I can tell so far, spotlight means you no longer care where things are, they simply exist and the context becomes the "path"... Truly innovating and definetly worth my money.

              • Re:Pity (Score:5, Informative)

                by As Seen On TV (857673) <asseen@gmail.com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @11:48AM (#12373460)
                It's more than that. I've kinda given up on explaining why, though. Let me explain with an example.

                A year ago, my friend George e-mailed me a funny picture of an elephant walking through snow. (It had snowed at a zoo. The picture was funny.) The other day, I wanted to see that picture, but I couldn't remember where I'd put it, or even if I'd put it anywhere at all.

                I tried Spotlighting "elephant" and "snow," but the photo was probably named DCS1003 or something, and I never got around to annotating it with a caption or anything. So that didn't help.

                Then I tried searching for George's e-mail address. That didn't help either, because George has sent me thousands of e-mails.

                So I typed the following query into Spotlight: "George kind:image".

                Poof. There was the picture. Spotlight knew to associate the picture with George because he's the one who e-mailed it to me. So it found it.

                (This whole example was totally made up. But I just tested it on my Mac, and it really does what I said it does. George is not his real name, but part about the elephant is true.)
                • Re:Pity (Score:5, Funny)

                  by abulafia (7826) on Thursday April 28 2005, @02:27PM (#12375469)
                  George is not his real name, but part about the elephant is true.)

                  Damn, all my bar-room conversations end up that way.

  • by scsirob (246572) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:46AM (#12370236)
    I'm always amazed how people seem to be able to judge the quality of an operating system within just a couple of hours. I can't imagine that you can really tell if productivity and/or stability have improved within a couple of hours.

    So how do they review the OS?
    • by Brento (26177) <brento AT brentozar DOT com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:54AM (#12370303) Homepage
      I'm always amazed how people seem to be able to judge the quality of an operating system within just a couple of hours.

      Journalists, especially high-profile ones like Mossberg, get preview versions of new gear long before the rest of us specifically so they can review it. They sign non-disclosure agreements to make sure the technology doesn't get into The Wrong Hands, and the vendors generally know the journalists will behave because the journalists have their entire career invested in it. If Mossberg tried to distribute pirated versions of Tiger ahead of the release date, Apple would stop giving him advance copies, and he'd lose prestige as a journalist.
  • Expose - Slowness (Score:5, Informative)

    by DJPenguin (17736) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:48AM (#12370254)
    I've had Tiger on my 17" powerbook for a few days now - it's actually installed on my iPod so I can dual boot.

    One thing I have noticed so far is that Expose seems a lot less fluid than in Panther. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I going mad? The difference is noticable even with only a couple of windows on the desktop.

    Other than that it seems nice. My Vodafone 3G card works, and most apps that I have tried. The only thing I can't get working yet is OpenVPN - as the TUN/TAP driver isn't ported yet.
  • by digitaldc (879047) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:54AM (#12370298)
    Apple, now raking in profits from its iPod, should seriously consider lowering their prices on their high-end machines to gain market share. Currently APPL is trading at $36.35 +0.40 (1.11%) a share and the stock has gone up consistenty since 2003 when it was around $10 a share. Now is the time for them to make some moves.
    If Tiger indeed blows away XP, so they should try to advertise it more, get it out to as many people as possible in order to increase their popularity and inspire more people to use and develop Apple software. If everyone had a better alternative to Windows for say just a fraction more in price, people would start buying it. The iPod has already convinced people Apple is a good brand, all they need is a price incentive to switch to Apple PCs.
    • by Momoru (837801) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:28AM (#12370666) Homepage Journal
      Currently APPL is trading at $36.35 +0.40 (1.11%) a share and the stock has gone up consistenty since 2003 when it was around $10 a share.

      It should be mentioned that these prices are not comparable directly since Apple split their stock. The current pre-split price is over $70, so its a 7 times gain, not just a 3 times.
    • Apple has managed to stay in business for 25 years. They have managed to turn a profit for the last 5 years. This is especially good performance given the nosedive the technology industry has been during the same period.

      I dare say they know what they are doing. That's like saying Daimler Benz should drop the price on their high end cars to compete with GM.

      They aren't even in the same Market.

  • by sehryan (412731) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:56AM (#12370326)
    I would love to make the switch, but I am not sure I could justify it. I know it is all subjective, but what is a good reason to switch away from WinXP? Looking for real reasons to switch, not trolls or flames.

    For reference, I don't have problems with virii, my system never crashes, and all of my main programs (mainly design programs from Adobe and Macromedia) run very nicely. So what would I gain from switching?
    • by zpok (604055) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:13AM (#12370490) Homepage
      Initially, you'd be less productive (say one week, tops) and afterwards you'll probably be a lot more productive.

      That's the top one reason I always keep hearing from multimedia professionals who've switched. What makes them more productive? Workflow management, which seems to be easier in OS X, better handling of files and more freedom and consistency in setting up the perfect work environment. This includes scanning, printing and all color-proofing issues.

      For some things it's the difference between one click versus four. For some things it's simply features not available on Windows.

      And today it's a lot easier to set keyboard shortcuts just the way you want them and adapt your workflow to your taste. So switching has for the most part become trivial.

      I'd say coupled with the cross platform apps you use, there's at least not a compelling reason not to switch. If you personally would gain a lot by switching is another issue.

      I know, a pretty wooly answer. In the end it's down to your preferences and way of working. Best talk with fellow designers, see what they think about it, and see if what they say applies to your situation.

      DON'T ask the geeks here at /. they'll bog you down with arguments that have nothing to do with your reality ;-)
    • by nordicfrost (118437) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:20AM (#12370561)
      Well, the main reason I use Macs and MacOS isn'nt blazing speed differences and OMG!!! It just works!!! statments. although I have yet to install a driver to get something om my PowerBook to work. I don't know how they do it, but most things seem to not need a driver or use a preinstalled driver of some sort.

      I use Macs because they make me efficient. I feel more comfortable sith a Mac and lots and lots of nifty solutions make it a better platform for me. An example: When I work in Photoshop, all I need to do in order to view all the open pictures is to take the mouse in the lower right corner. Expose kicks in and I can see every picture I'm working on. If I want to see all the open apps and switch to another, mous in the lower left corner. Another example; everything is drag'n'drop. I'm composing an email and need a picture from a website? Just drag the pic from safari over in the email totally seamlessly. And both the email client and safari are preinstalled. Easy-peasy.

      There is so much to tell, but just try it. If it is good for you use it. If not, don't.
        • by nordicfrost (118437) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:00AM (#12371099)
          We use Groupwise at work, doesn't work there. But there's something interesing about your statement. You didn't know it until now. In the Mac world, there's this wierd feeling you get that "this probably works" and you try it. Usually it works. It is difficult to explain, but the global drag and drop feature is so thightly integrated that one tend to use it. In Windows, it works in some situations and not others. I don't have the time to find out what apps / situations that can have DND to make them more efficient. In Mac, you just do it.
          Sorry for the bad explanation, but the feeling is difficult to describe.
    • The petty annoyances (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SuperKendall (25149) * on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:00AM (#12371088)
      Usng both a Windows2K (was using XP for a while as well) computer and a Mac day to day, I can list some little things that annoy me on Windows that are solved by the Mac:

      Lots of windows? Taskbar has two modes, neither of whcih work very well - either fold your icons together and make it really a bother to get to, or have the taskbar go to multiple lines. Expose is just SO much better a way of dealing with finding multiple windows.

      Macs don't ever hide menu items just because you've not used them for a while.

      Ever had a Windows Window no respond to you because a modal dialgue has popped up somewhere and that window is now obscuring it? Well, I have and Macs do not have that problem due to a much more intelligent way of handlind modal popups (it's embedded in the window that spawned it).

      Config files for every app that are really text and editible (or removable) by hand.

      UNIX utilities as first-class members of the OS and not something that clings to life within the system. Yeah I'm looking at you Cygwin!

      Usable simple text editing app (TextEdit). Both Wordpad and Notepad have unique issues that means you can't just automatically use one or the other (why do you think they are both still there). Heck in Tiger you can just use TextEdit for 99% of your word processing since it reads/writes Word files and supports things like tables.

      Everything supports save as PDF through printing interface. No need to use Acrobat.

      A home directory that reallly is in one place!!! You don't have to search the whole hard drive to REALLY back up all your app settings. They are all under ~/Library.

      When people talk about being more productive on a Mac, these are the kinds of things they mean. It's all the little annoyances that are part of using Windows day to day... you don't notice them after a while but each one makes you just a tiny bit slower and interrupts your workflow. In my experience Macs have a better sustained throughput for humans. Sure if you're just sitting there typing a letter one may not be faster than the other, but it's when you have to stop typing and make transitions when your odds of being interrupted are lower on Mac.

      And for less subtle reasons - Spotlight? Dashboard? Automator? These are pretty compelling reasons all on thier own, especially if you can write code at all. And if you can't then Automator should be even more compelling.

    • by dr00g911 (531736) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:21AM (#12371391)
      A lot of people will make this into a religious debate -- which I'm guilty of from time to time -- but it's really just a matter of personal taste.

      I have Macs and Win boxes in both my home and work offices. I've got a Debian box at home as well.

      There are very specific tasks that work better on the PC in my opinion. For me, those tasks are games and Maya. This is coming from an artist's perspective primarily, a coder's perspective second and gamer's third.

      Everything else, I use my Macs for because they just 'feel' right. It feels like I'm drawing with my left hand to use Photoshop under Windows with an identical interface and mostly identical key commands. Mouse acceleration curves feel funky, and I loathe -- nay -- LOATHE the fact that the majority of apps I use have to have a second desktop behind them (that gray background you get when 'maximized'). I like seeing my desktop. I like having a palette monitor that's got my email client in the non-palette space. I like the Mac's implementation of drag & drop. I like the lack of reliance on the second mouse button to do everyday tasks.

      Quark Xpress 6+ is flaky on any platform at any speed, however type is significantly more manageable and supported on the Mac.

      BBEdit is reason enough to buy a Mac, all by itself if you're a coder. It's rocked my world for years (network-wide find & replace from circa '95 -- maybe earlier) and just keeps getting better.

      Don't even get me started about Windows and CMYK support, professional level color management, search functionality ("find" was practically instant across all drives and servers BEFORE spotlight -- now we have instant filename, content and context-sensitive metadata). Coupled with 45 minutes on my 3ghz P4 to search just my frigging C: and D: drives.

      Once you get yourself immersed in the Mac, it fits like a tailored suit -- there's an astounding amount of tiny bits of polish and subtle features that have been cloned to the Win side by someone who didn't understand the meaning of elegance or subtlety (see the Longhorn 'Glass' demo that's surfacing for a prime example).

      Anyhow, at home I choose my relatively slow 17" flat panel iMac G4 over my screaming and fully loaded gaming and Maya PC for almost every task because I'm more productive and happier. YMMV.
  • by adavies42 (746183) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:07AM (#12370423)
    From the NYT article:

    The Safari browser now subscribes to R.S.S. news feeds,
    And its "private browsing" mode conceals the tracks of online deeds.
    There are archives now, and log files, when you send or get a fax;
    You can make the pointer bigger on those Jumbotron-screened Macs.
    You can start a full-screen slide show from some photos on demand;
    And the voice that reads the screen aloud can lend the blind a hand.
    There's a password-phrase suggestor meant to make yours more secure,
    And the Grapher module draws equations simple and obscure.
    Then the Automator program is a geeky software clerk -
    You just choose the steps you want performed, and it does all the work.
    There's a lot of miscellany, lots of spit-and-polish stuff,
    But it works and doesn't slow you down - and these days, that's enough.
  • by HawkingMattress (588824) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:17AM (#12370520)
    Their new automator [apple.com] framework, which let applications send streams of objects to each other and have them propose interfaces to interact with.
    (Well that's how it seems to work at least). It looks like the equivalent of unix pipes for desktop apps.
    Something i've been waiting for for years.
  • by amichalo (132545) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:18AM (#12370537)
    Everyone is a buzz about Spotloght and it is no doubt going to be great, but I am also looking forward to improving productivity with Automator.

    As with lots of scripting languages, sometimes it is just plain faster to brute force what you are doing than sit down, recall a language syntax and function set, write a script, give it a test, and then run it. What I see as cool about Automator is that it makes building a script so freaking easy and fast and since you can call scripts with scripts, you can build a nice function library of scripts to make the process even faster.

    I am also digging on Dashboard. At first I didn't like the idea of a second desktop that is different than the first, and I will have to try before I agree that it makes sense to keep these on a different desktop, but I love the idea of the small applets (I used Konfabulator breifly) for small tasks like weather, itunes, stock tickers, and calculator. That they take minimal system memory means I will be more apt to keep them open and within easy reach without having to launch the applicaiton.

    Lastly, I am totally excited about iChat AV supporting up to four people (including me) in a video chat. It just looks so cool to see three people sitting around the virtual room like that and this feature is making me finally break down and buy the iSight. It looks like the best autofocusing camera available for $150.
  • by CaseOfThaMondays (877679) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:26AM (#12371459)
    Liger is going to pretty much be my favorite OS. its bred for its skills in stability and magic.
  • Price Point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Rihahn (879725) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:46AM (#12371735)
    I keep seeing all of these posts where someone mentions they can get a PC with 'X' ram, 'X' HD, 'X' CPU for 'X' cheaper than a Mac... You can also go buy a $1000 Honda and add all sorts of ground effects, spoilers, lights, and other 'performance' mods and have a pretty quick little car that will beat a BMW 740il soundly... But it's still a Honda. And unless you're stupid, you'll wind up going down the road at the exact same speed as that Beemer. The only difference is that you added all of that stuff to your car, you know every rattle and squeak, tolerate the lousy ride because you can corner like no ones business, have bass that can make your neighbors evaporate, and you can fix any of it easily or upgrade it... Meanwhile the guy with the Beemer has a 10-year warrantee that covers tears in the upholstery and doesn't have to think about the car, he just drives it. He gets to spend his weekends out playing with his kids rather than tweaking a new intake manifold, can drive the car from Denver to L.A. without worrying about the radiator being two sizes too small for the type-R motor that has been shoehorned into the car, and his stock sound system is pretty nice because he doesn't need 3000 watts to overcome the #10 coffee can exhaust system. Of course the average /.'er drives a VW Thing that was hand built by everyone he/she knows, only runs on methanol that he/she makes in the back yard, has the steering wheel on the wrong side, and requires three keys to start. ;)
    • by Karellen !-P (717831) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:43AM (#12370217) Homepage
      I did find it tremendously annoying that the multimedia part of the article requires you to have Real or WMP but not Quicktime.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:45AM (#12370229)
      Which fanboy are you?
      1. Windows

        You wear wraparound sunglasses, even indoors. You wish your mother would let you ride a motorbike. You tell your friends you're pulling in $50,000 a year and $2,000 a month "playing the stock market" but in reality you're only bringing in half that and your dividends from MSFT havn't been good in years. Your non computing friends all turn to you for help; you only charge $30 an hour. Your collegues talk about you behind your back. Your workplace nickname is likely to be "The Asshole". Unlike the Linux fanboys, you actually try to pick up dates in bars but women laugh at you.
      2. Apple

        You think you're so cool you hurt. You have mirrors on every wall in your "loft apartment", which is really a grimy little apartment next to a guy who plays Guns 'n Roses at 3am. All of your furniture is from Ikea. You sometimes think that changing your name to "Steve" would be "pretty cool". When you go to bars you only drink Miller Lite. No body ever asks you for help with their computers because they know you don't know anything but OS X, even if you do tell them you "run Unix" now. Your friends openly laugh at you.
      3. Linspire

        You regularly give $10 bills to homeless guys because you have too much money. Computers baffle you, but you enjoy looking at pictures of naked women. You don't know what Linux is, but you continually bugged the IT guy at work about your computer so he installed Linspire on your machine.
      4. Umbongo

        You shop at GAP. You probably used to use a Mac. When you saw the multiracial image used as a desktop picture and heard that this operating system came from the same country as Nelson Mandela, you knew it was for you. You meet with your friends in fair-trade coffee houses and talk about the eventual overthrow of evil corporations such as Microsoft and Starbucks. Like the Linspire user, you have very little real knowlege when it comes to computers but you would never use your computer to look at pictures of women degrading themselves.
      5. Gentoy

        You've been "into computers" for ohh, one or two years now and fancy yourself as "a bit of a hacker". Wouldn't know C from C++, or even Perl for that matter. Older Gentoy users may be building their homes from matchsticks. You've explained to all your friends that your matchstick house will have an "optimised floorplan". They've tried to tell you that your house violates every known building code and law in your area, but you've ignored them so far because you can't read those complicated regulatory documents.
      6. Linux From Scratch

        Much like the Gentoy user but you'd also be into sadomasochistic sex if you could get it. You're not just building a house from matchsticks, you're planing to grow the trees to make the matchsticks. You've cleared some land but don't know what to do next because you havn't read the books you've got, so you've posted to alt.arborists.newbie asking for help. It's been three days so far and no one has replied. You remain hopeful.
      • by smitty_one_each (243267) * on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:15AM (#12370504) Homepage Journal
        8. Emacs
        Your devotion to the One True Editor is such that you (secretly) don't care what manner of kernel/windowing system you use to light off to run brilliant stuff like Gnus, ECB, or ERC.
        You like the substance of the GPL, even if you fall short of the full-on reactionary "ethical" style that some are capable of achieving.
        You wonder why the OS can't be as unobtrusive as the BIOS, and just serve Emacs quietly.
    • by kimba (12893) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:55AM (#12370314)
      David Pogue should disclose that he is a popular author of Apple books [amazon.com]. I don't disagree with what he says, and I am an Apple fan, but if you have a major interest in Apple you should probably disclose it when writing neutral articles for the NYT.
    • Re:Java 5? (Score:5, Informative)

      by qwertphobia (825473) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:47AM (#12370250)
      Java 5 is not included with the operating system, but 1.4.2 is included.

      Java 5 will be provided as a separate installer, so that folks can upgrade when they're ready.
    • Re:Java 5? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:49AM (#12370264)
      Java 5? That's Java 1.5.0, yes? No, wait, I mean that's Java2 1.5.0?

      Does it run on SunOS 2.10? Sorry, I mean, Solaris 10?
    • Re:Java 5? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ABaumann (748617) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:52AM (#12370286)
      No news as to when Java 1.5 (I refuse to call it Java 5 - see more) will be out. However, Apple has said that Tiger will be required for Java 1.5 (ie they're not gonna make it compatible with Panther) Early reviews of 10.4 Beta have said that a beta version of Java 1.5 is there, but seeing as apple hasn't mentioned anything, I'd be surprised to see it on an actual 10.4 disk. Summary: Java Tiger on Mac Tiger? If not now then soon. More: As for the name Java 5... Java 1.0 was Java 1.0. When they came out with Java 1.2, they called it Java 2 Then they had Java 2 versions 1.3, 1.4, etc. Now they have Java 5. Come on people! I don't care what your versioning conventions are, I just care that you have some.
    • No Tiger in Tiger (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kherr (602366) <kevinNO@SPAMpuppethead.com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:52AM (#12370287) Homepage
      Java 5 (Tiger) is not included in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger). But Apple's got it under development and I'd suspect there'll be a Java update to Java 5 within a short period. Apple's been making test builds available to developers.
      • by Mikey-San (582838) on Thursday April 28 2005, @07:55AM (#12370309) Homepage Journal
        As do I, but I really thing Apple need to do something about getting a cheap machine out. I can build my own for half the price of a Mac mini, and until they can match that they won't be getting any of my money, and I'm sticking with Windows.

        ROFLCOPTER. "Apple need to sell a cheap [$250] computer."

        An upgrade to Windows XP Professional is $200 alone. How much computer can you buy for that last $50? Sorry, but if you're going to complain that a $500 isn't cheap enough, I'm going to say you're a biased troll who thinks pirating an OS makes a computer cheaper for comparison purposes. You can't call something cheaper if you're stealing part of it.

        "Man, that $2000 PowerBook is too expensive. If they had a $1000 laptop, I'd buy one, but NOT SOONER NO OMG."

        "Man, that $1000 iBook is too expensive, but if they had a $700 Mac, I'd buy it. NOT SOONER, though!"

        "Man, that eMac isn't cheap enough for me. I can build my own computer for $10 and a pack of paper clips. Wake me when they sell an AFFORDABLE computer."

        "What? They're charging $500 for a computer?! Too bad they don't have a $250 computer, or I'd buy one."

        Pattern here?
        • by Junior J. Junior III (192702) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:15AM (#12371308) Homepage
          This pattern is real, but it exists not because would-be Mac owners are stand-offish about parting with money, but because PC prices have dropped, and dropped faster than Mac prices.

          The problem, of course, is that people look at the cost of the hardware alone, and not the cost of the OS, upgrades, and applications and the value of the security and usability advantages provided by Apple. Windows piracy (and Windows applications piracy) probably hurts Apple more than it hurts Microsoft.
          • Proper comparison (Score:5, Insightful)

            by lar3ry (10905) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:47AM (#12370938)
            Hardly XP Home.

            Apple has got this one right. There is NO "OS X Light." There's just one O/S to serve them all...

            OS X comes with web server (Apache), SSH server (where's that in XP anything?), a SQL database, and many other things that you can't get without XP Professional or even Win2000/2003 Server.

            Now, most of those "advanced" services are turned off by default, but they are there if you want to use them, and don't cost anything (other than the space they take up) if you don't ever configure them.

            I think Microsoft's OS strategy sucks, because it generalizes: I need Win2003 Server Standard Edition--or is it Enterprise Edition?--to get some of the services I need, but need XP (Home,Professional) to get the desktop bubblegum that my kids want. I can't pick and choose--Microsoft does it for me and I don't get a say in their selections!

            Of course, you can always get freeware/shareware or commercial add-ons, but that ups the price of the OS.

            So... the proper comparison is OS X would be to purchase XP Professional with bits of Windows 2003 Server (total cost, mucho dinero!).

            Who wants to bet that Microsoft will continue this silly strategy with Longhorn? I can see it now: Longhorn Home, Longhorn Professional, Longhorn Advanced Server, Longhorn Lite, Longhorn Media Edition, Longhorn Tablet Edition, Longhorn Pocket Edition... And what will developers target? (This requires Longhorn Home, with some bits of Longhorn Server, but is incompatible with the display driver in Longhorn Tablet...)
          • by anomaly (15035) <tom DOT cooper3 AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @01:29PM (#12374734)
            I love Linux. I've used it on the desktop at home for about 8 years. Linux can't compare with my Powerbook in terms of desktop user experience. My Mac 'just works.'

            The hardware you're talking about has the same capacity hard disk and RAM. There's a 2.3GHz celeron compared to the 1.25 GHz G4. If you're talking about raw GHz, I guess you have Apple beat.

            Video? I'm sure that the included video adapter is superior on the mini. Does your server have a modem? A DVD player, CD burner? Audio in or out? USB? Firewire?

            But Linux has free software! Those free applications push Linux ahead, right?

            Photo management? gPhoto has pretty good camera support - if you're using the right USB drivers. That gets the photos from the camera - now, what about organizing and editing photos? Slideshows with transitions, audio, etc? iPhoto kicks butt here.

            Video editing? First find and configure the firewire card drivers for the chipset you have, then go get what? Cinelerra? Too hard for a linux geek to make work. VirtualDub, Kino? WAAAAY too limited in terms of features and ease of use.

            DVD mastering? Don't get me started...

            Music software? XMMS is pretty handy for playing music, but organizing, sorting? Grip for capturing the data...

            OpenOffice and GAIM on linux are fine tools. NeoOffice and Adium are fine tools on my Mac, and they work almost identically on the Mac.

            The point is that it's POSSIBLE to do these things on linux. On my Mac, it's EASY.

            Write a letter, print it to a remote printer, rip a CD and copy it to a USB or firewire equipped MP3 player, take digital photos, create a slideshow with music, export it to a readily available format (doesn't have to be quicktime, but find something equally easy for the recipient to use.... Compare start-to-finish time on both platforms. My Mac clobbers linux in this.

            Don't get me wrong here I'm a big Linux geek. My Mac makes desktop computing useful and usable.

            Respectfully,
            Anomaly
      • by peragrin (659227) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:00AM (#12370354)
        You can only build a machine cheaper if your time is worthless.

        I need someone to do some yard work can I hire you for $1 a day? That is your going computer assembly rate. So it won't be much of a difference.

        You do reaize that in order to put even a nano-itx board into a mac mini chassis, you can't have a cd-rom drive right?

      • Re:Voice recognition (Score:5, Interesting)

        by boaworm (180781) <boaworm@gmail.com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:05AM (#12370400) Homepage Journal
        Apple is obviously not interested in competing with all this crap'n'cheap PC storese and hardware floating around. Why can't people figure that out ?

        Furthermore, I've actually spent less money on computer hardware since I bought my Power Mac, simply because I was suddenly so happy with it, and felt no need to constantly change stuff.

        I threw my last Windows/PC years ago, running Linux/OpenBSD on my servers, and OS X on laptops/workstation. I dont miss this fuzz about crappy drivers, PSUs that goes black, noice, having to install a shitload of free/shareware just to be able to do something.

        Simply put, I value my time, so I save money (and adrenaline) on my Mac's. If you dont mind all the crap that goes with cheap PC hardware, Apple is simply not for you, so dont "whine" about not being able to buy a cheap Mac.
      • by harlows_monkeys (106428) on Thursday April 28 2005, @01:23PM (#12374651) Homepage
        Here's a good one if you want to confuse a voice dictation system. In Burbank, CA, there is a street named Pass avenue, and it includes an overpass that passes over the freeway. If you were to travel that on a certain major Jewish holidy, you would "pass over Pass overpass over Passover".

        Good luck getting that recognized by today's speech recognition systems!

        • by rokzy (687636) on Thursday April 28 2005, @09:06AM (#12371170)
          the whole point of the Mac voice control is that it DOESN'T NEED ANY TRAINING.

          of course a "well trained" system will be better. jeez...

          the Mac voice control isn't about, say, replacing typing (that will never work properly anyway). it's about commands. that's why it works so well - there are a limited number of words and phrases, though still some flexibility with precise phrasing.

          the best use imo is the things like "home phone for Joe Bloggs" which will access the Address Book and display in huge font the home number. dismiss it with "ok" or "thank you" etc.

          another good one is to select a file and say "mail this to Joe Bloggs" which open mail, starts a message to Joe and attatches the file. it's good because it actually saves time as opposed to a lot of voice control stuff which ends up taking LONGER than to just do it manually.
        • Re:Voice recognition (Score:5, Interesting)

          by As Seen On TV (857673) <asseen@gmail.com> on Thursday April 28 2005, @11:39AM (#12373332)
          Mac OS X includes speech commands, not speech-to-text. You can't dictate to your Mac using the built-in software. So don't compare it to anything you talked about here; it's a different kind of solution.

          That said, speech commands work amazingly well. You can click a file in the Finder and say "Mail this to (name from your address book)," and it opens up a Mail window with that address, the file attached, ready for you to type or just click "Send."

          That's cool. That's really cool. No question. But you know what really blows me away? About two weeks ago, without really thinking about it, I did it while brushing my teeth. Seriously. I was sitting at my computer at home early in the morning, still half asleep, with my toothbrush in my mouth. I mumbled "Send the latest blah-blah file to person-so-n-so," which I have set up to trigger a Spotlight search to find the most recent copy of a specific file and e-mail it to the named contact. (I have to do this often enough it was worth automating.) I said this with my toothbrush in my mouth, with a mouth full of Crest. And it understood me.

          Honestly, it kinda freaked me out a little. It was a very "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" moment.

          (Just for fun, I tried it again, and it didn't work. I guess I was able to mumble it just right the first time, totally by random chance. Got lucky. Still a pretty funny moment.)
          • by Skibbering (787368) on Thursday April 28 2005, @01:35PM (#12374820)
            I turned off Speech Recognition on my Mac - it was freaking me out when it started responding to voices on the TV. No lie! A typical conversation:

            TV: "...we don't have the time..."
            Mac: "It's seven thirty two".

            Ok, it's not exactly riveting dialogue, but still.. You KNOW you're getting neurotic when your household appliances are having conversations and you start feeling left out.
    • by Loco3KGT (141999) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:01AM (#12370363)
      Uh, dude, you can't do that.

      you can't take a quote, edit it to death to remove the point of the sentence, and then call it hype. "consumer" was the key freakin point in that sentence and you just said "haha no. I shall rewrite this to mean something else and then call them liars!"

      Can you show me another consumer desktop OS that's as stable, secure, and satisfying? It ain't Linux, Linux isn't 'consumer' enough. No more than a Ford F-850 is a 'consumer' truck.
    • by aendeuryu (844048) on Thursday April 28 2005, @08:13AM (#12370487)
      The plural of virus is viruses.
      Writing "virri" doesn't make you look clever, educated people will laugh at you.


      Speak for yourself. Not all of us trot out our soapboxen for such little things.