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Technology (Apple) Technology Hardware

New Mac System Specs 650

xyankee writes " Think Secret appears to be dishing more of the dirt that Apple loves to hate so much, this time dropping details on updated Power Mac G5, iMac G5, and eMac systems soon to be released. Looks like speed bumps all around: Power Macs get to 2.7GHz, iMacs to 2GHz, and eMacs to 1.42GHz. Video cards and SuperDrives are also upgraded."
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New Mac System Specs

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  • Slow learners? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:17PM (#12234673)

    If my memory serves, a judge passed a ruling on this a little while ago [slashdot.org]. Shouldn't they be at least slowing down a bit while this is resolved? And if not, why didn't someone give some sort of cease-and desist order?

    (Disclaimer: IANAL, and watching them on TV gives me a headache.)

    • Re:Slow learners? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by amliebsch ( 724858 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:28PM (#12234825) Journal
      THere's nothing that says they can't publish the information. They only can't refuse to reveal their sources who may have violated NDA contracts.
      • Re:Slow learners? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by As Seen On TV ( 857673 ) <asseen@gmail.com> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:56PM (#12235213)
        Actually, there is. In California, which is the controlling jurisdiction, it's against the law to knowingly publish trade secrets. Unannounced product details are definitely trade secrets.

        Not to mention the fact that Nick Ciarelli is apparently still actively engaged in tortious interference.
  • No word yet... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:17PM (#12234678)
    ...on whether these use the already-known-to-exist [channelregister.co.uk] IBM PowerPC 970MP [thinksecret.com], a dual core version of the G5. This could mean that we'd have >2.5GHz dual-dual core Power Mac systems.

    Further, an update to Apple's CHUD tools [apple.com] (subsequently pulled) had clear references to quad processor capability [blogspot.com], as well as references to the 970MP [macrumors.com], and the single core 970GX [macrumors.com].

    What could essentially be called "quad G5" systems (including Xserves) are just a matter of time. And with dual >1GHz frontside busses and PC3200 DDR RAM (8GB max in Power Mac, 16GB max (also ECC) in Xserve), these machines are nothing to sneeze at.

    What will be interesting to see is when the Power Macs will have PCI-X and Blu-Ray. From the most current round of rumors, it looks like that's still another upgrade away...
    • Re:No word yet... (Score:5, Informative)

      by hunterx11 ( 778171 ) <hunterx11@g3.1415926mail.com minus pi> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:19PM (#12234702) Homepage Journal
      PowerMacs already have PCI-X. You're thinking of PCI-E. Though I really think somebody out there must be a numbskull when we have PCI Extended and PCI Express.
      • by zhiwenchong ( 155773 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:34PM (#12234902)
        Boy this reminds me of DOS days:

        XMS - eXtended Memory Specification
        EMS - Expanded Memory Specification - uses page frames

        Confused the heck out of most non-techies....

        And then we had:
        USB 2.0 Full-speed (12 Mbps)
        USB 2.0 Hi-speed (480 Mbps)

        And:

        Victorinox - Original Swiss Army Knife
        Wenger - Genuine Swiss Army Knife
        • Re:No word yet... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by xutopia ( 469129 )
          seems as though Victorinox is the first but that Wenger later became the people who produced the knives used by the army. Victorinox is the "original" right?
          • by balamw ( 552275 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @02:41PM (#12236696)
            They have both made knives for the Swiss Army since the late 19th century. This [4abnet.com] describes what I recall as the case.

            The Compromise of 1908

            The company from which Wenger emerged had been a supplier to the Swiss Army as early as 1893, and its competitor, Victorinox, since 1890. Wenger is in the French-speaking Jura region, and its competitor is in the German-speaking canton of Schwyz. To avoid friction between the two cantons, the Swiss government decided in 1908 to use each supplier for half of its requirements. So while Victorinox can lay claim to be the "original", Wenger can state that its Swiss Army Knives are the "genuine". In any case, both have been manufacturing Swiss Army Knives for over 100 years and both must meet identical specifications laid down by the army.

            B
    • Re:No word yet... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @01:51PM (#12235969)
      What will be interesting to see is when the Power Macs will have PCI-X and Blu-Ray.

      I think someone else has already correction your confusion about PCI-X and PCIe, so I'll comment on the Blu-Ray thingy. Sony has been making noises about helping avoid the format war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, so I think Apple would be making a _huge_ mistake going with Blu-Ray just as Sony's about to cave. Let's hope they're not that dumb, and that they simply use NEC's dual layer DVD+-RW drives.
      • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @04:20PM (#12237959)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re:No word yet... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by javaxman ( 705658 )
        . Sony has been making noises about helping avoid the format war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, so I think Apple would be making a _huge_ mistake going with Blu-Ray just as Sony's about to cave.

        #1 - Sony's not about to cave.

        #2 - Apple's already backing Blu-Ray. Check out the list of companies. [blu-raydisc.com] They aren't alone.

        Sony is sure to put Blu-ray drives in their PS3. They're equally as likely to release a bunch of movies in this format. They may have some olive branch to offer the HD-DVD association, but they're not

  • by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:18PM (#12234684) Homepage Journal
    I am still waiting for a subnotebook from Apple. My 12in Powerbook is nice, but what I would really like is a subnotebook, perhaps even an Newton replacement. I've made an argument for Apple's reentry into the "PDA" market here [utah.edu]. If such a device could be made, I am sure it would have huge sales. The market is moving towards smaller devices that are even more portable and there are folks that are clamoring for it. Mark Cuban also makes a compelling argument for smaller portable devices here [blogmaverick.com].

    Don't get me wrong....Apple needs to keep its Pro level line on top of things. In fact, I will likely be ordering a new G5 to replace my dual 2.0 G5 if they are in fact announced, but as the numbers are showing after Apple's financial conference yesterday, portables are where the market is at.

    • In fact, I will likely be ordering a new G5 to replace my dual 2.0 G5 if they are in fact announced,

      Wow, I'm curious to know what kind of needs you have that would justify this...
      Sheer gear lust ?
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Girls ofcourse ...
      • by BWJones ( 18351 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:26PM (#12234794) Homepage Journal
        Wow, I'm curious to know what kind of needs you have that would justify this...

        Scientific computing would be the answer. When decisions are made that depend on calculations, the sooner those calculations can be completed, the better. I am not yet at the point where I need my own cluster, but when calculations start to eat up hours per day or even whole days, you start to think about these things.

        We are starting a project however, that will likely need a small cluster. I am thinking 5-10 Xserves would cut it for image analysis and dataset construction.

        Sheer gear lust ?

        Well, hellyeaa. It's Apple Computer we are talking about.

        • by burns210 ( 572621 ) <maburns@gmail.com> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:36PM (#12234923) Homepage Journal
          "I am not yet at the point where I need my own cluster, but when calculations start to eat up hours per day or even whole days, you start to think about these things."

          You may know this already but with Xgrid being built into OS X proper, buying a second Powermac could be used as a ad hoc 2-node cluster. If money isn't a problem, getting 2 of the new Powermacs, one as your workstation and both serving as grid nodes with Xgrid may be your best bet.
      • by daviddennis ( 10926 ) <david@amazing.com> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:33PM (#12234897) Homepage
        Apple Motion and Apple Final Cut Pro always can use more hardware thrown at them. I'm working on a long form project where quad processors would really help annoying multiple hour rendering times on FCP.

        The real-time rendering really helps with most things, but it still doesn't work for layering video at different sizes, exactly what I'm doing :-(.

        (I know the original poster made a reply already, but I wanted to point out that he's far from the only person who can use serious power).

        D
    • YES!! (Score:3, Interesting)

      Bring back the eMate plastic clamshell casing, stick a G4 in it, and sell it for $350. I love the eMate, but I can't figure out any way to get the information I type on it into my Mac. So it collects dust these days.... The form factor is perfect. Sure, they can make it white instead of ugly dark green (personally I like the green), but if Apple comes out with something of that form factor at a reasonable price, I will buy 2 of them!!
      • Re:YES!! (Score:3, Funny)

        by himself ( 66589 )
        >
        > Bring back the eMate plastic clamshell casing, stick a G4 in it, and sell it for $350.
        >
        *teenybopper squeal* Oh please oh please oh please!!

        (Whoops, gotta go get a dry chair from the conference room. Be right back...)
    • The next "Newton" will probably be a souped up iPod with a large screen. ( do not tell anybody where you got that from)
    • If such a device could be made, I am sure it would have huge sales.

      Well, that's kind of the thing, isn't it? On the one hand, we have people like yourself saying "I'm sure it will sell!" On the other hand, we have extremely highly paid experts in market research telling us that a product like that will never sell.

      The fact that you want it doesn't mean it'll be a successful product.
    • by Johnny Mozzarella ( 655181 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @01:06PM (#12235364)
      Check out these sales figures for the second quarter: Keynote Presentation [mac.com]

      In spite of the recent trackpad isses, PowerBooks are selling like iPods(yes, hot cakes have been replaced by iPods).

    • (DISCLAIMER: I am an Apple user at home and would love an Apple 'treo-type' device for myself)

      Apple recognizes that their three audiences are:
      (1) Video/graphics pros,
      (2) education,
      (3) and home users.
      (Yeah there are others and all those segments are growing with the exception of gamers but lets focus on the main ones.)

      Apple only has so many R&D dollars, even with $7B in the bank. They have to focus on what their audience wants and will pay for.

      So what does the demand look like?
      (1) Video/graphics pros
  • by wolfemi1 ( 765089 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:19PM (#12234690)
    "Looks like speed bumps all around"

    You mean, like, to keep them all from going too fast?

  • Cool! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jargoone ( 166102 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:19PM (#12234694)
    I decided a couple weeks ago that I wanted to Switch(tm). Tiger release gets announced, I'm good there. Now I have another reason I have to wait for! It's all good though, the Dual 1.8 is the one I want, and I expect the refurb prices to drop like a rock once the new ones come out. Anyone know if this will be the case?
  • emac? (Score:5, Funny)

    by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:20PM (#12234718) Homepage Journal
    just an 's' shy of immaculate...
  • by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:21PM (#12234728)
    ... on the old dual 2.5 G5. Thats a good thing I think. As impressive as the system was, there's something (irrational) in my mind that just gets nervous about things like that. I'm worried that the... juice... will leak out onto the mobo.

    Nice to see the iMac getting a more decent video card. (Yes, I know it probably 'sux0rs for gam3z' but honestly, a mediocre gaming card these days will slay practically any other reasonable computing task. It makes me laugh when you see the gamers dis something like, say, a nVidia 5200. That card sucks rocks! but it will also do realtime previews in Motion on uncompressed DV. That used to take some heavy hardware. Just sayin'.)

    • ... on the old dual 2.5 G5. Thats a good thing I think. As impressive as the system was, there's something (irrational) in my mind that just gets nervous about things like that. I'm worried that the... juice... will leak out onto the mobo.

      I don't understand why people are so paranoid about water-cooling.As long as the hoses are clamped well and the user doesnt do anything stupid like waving sharp objects near the tubing, there should not be any problems. Apple uses a special mixture that is non corrosive

      • I don't understand why people are so paranoid about water-cooling.As long as the hoses are clamped well...

        Well, I did say it was an irrational fear. :)

        More to the point, there's something a little hackish about needing liquid cooling for a desktop CPU. Its neat that they pulled it off, esp. in a production-line unit, but it was pretty obvious that this was the only way they were even going to get halfway to the promised '3Ghz by year end' (which still hasn't happened. Shades of Moto.) I would prefer (a

      • People need to stop being so paranoid about water cooling.

        According to Appleinsider.com, Delphi's estimated MTBF (meantime between failure) for these liquid cooling CPU units is only 2 to 2.5 years. This is a primary driver for Apple to wanting to move to cooler PowerPC chips so that they can avoid having liquid coolers and avoiding having to fix these water-cooling unit en masse starting in 2006.

  • Midplane (Score:5, Informative)

    by akira69 ( 621573 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:22PM (#12234746)
    So, do you think they fixed the midplane capacitor issue? I've had to replace one already, and the replacement didn't work... I'm still trying to get my 20" iMac working again. Any insight on this? I really hope they redesigned the board!
  • new ibooks too... (Score:4, Informative)

    by remove office ( 871398 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:25PM (#12234783) Homepage
    new ibooks are also expected [appleinsider.com] to be shipping around the same time, if not a few days later.
  • by OlivierB ( 709839 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:27PM (#12234809)
    Looks like all the systems are beefing up the Video Cards to support the latest and the best from Tiger (i.e. at least 64Mb and programmable GPU required to support core image).

    As much as I like my Mac mini, I am torn apart wishing they would either#:
    a) upgrade their video cars to something like an ATI 9600 with 64 Mb of Ram
    b) don't change anything so I won't feel the *URGE* to upgrade to a Higher Spec Mac Mini.

    ARgg, Apple has embraced drug dealer like methods; I am now hooked and I won't be able to quench my thirst until something else hits my desk!
  • by J Barnes ( 838165 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:28PM (#12234828) Homepage

    iDrool.
  • by Fox_1 ( 128616 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:31PM (#12234872)
    Two eMac models, code-named Q86J
    I remember reading about different techniques to track leaks of top secret documents from the CIA, one method was to use synonyms of different words in each copy of the document and see if the leaks used the same synonyms in their materials. While I doubt the code-name is an example of this, I wonder in Apple's quest to track it's leaks what kind of internal tracking/security features it's using for documents about new products.
    • by jcuffe ( 873322 ) <jared@edifies.us> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:43PM (#12235018) Homepage
      The canary trap IIRC. Tom Clancy made a big deal about that with his main character throughout most of his novels. Apparently the way it works was to make many different copies of the documents, using a program to vary the punctuation and word choice. It's a remarkably elegant solution, and if Apple isn't doing this now, I don't know what the hell their problem is.
  • Micro ATX G5, BYOKDM (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:32PM (#12234879)
    The exclusion of keyboard, display and mouse makes the Mac Mini a great value, and the forced repurchase of KD&M makes the iMac a bad value. Customers accept it with laptops for the sake of compactness, but not desktops. Apple should bring out a Micro ATX desktop with the same specs of the iMac G5, but it should be as easy to open and swap the components as a Shuttle PC, and let you BYOKDM. Apple could probably sell it for $900, making it a great machine to go between the Mac Mini and Power Mac.
    • by WombatControl ( 74685 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:58PM (#12235248)

      The reason we're not seeing a Mac mini G5 or a PowerBook G5 is because the G5 chip has some severe thermal issues. You could have either, but in both cases you'd need a massive fan to keep the chip cool. The iMac is about the limit of how tightly you can cram a G5 into a case without worrying about the thing overheating and turning your machine into a desktop hibachi.

      You're really not gaining much with 64-bit quite yet. Even with Tiger, the Cocoa and Carbon libraries are still 32-bit, meaning that unless you have someone writing a 64-bit backend that interfaces with the 32-bit UI, most apps won't take advantage of the extra address space. In fact, for some applications, 64-bit addressing actually slows things down - why allocate a pointer that's 64-bits wide unless you need to do so?

  • iMac G5 (Score:4, Informative)

    by NEOtaku17 ( 679902 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:32PM (#12234883) Homepage
    Good day fot iMac G5 buyers. They have finally put in a graphics card that can play modern games(Radeon 9600 with 128MB of video RAM)
  • This is good (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darien ( 180561 ) <darien @ g m a i l . com> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:41PM (#12234989)
    It's got to be good for Apple's marketing that their MHz ratings are properly competing with modern PCs nowadays. The whole "MHz myth" argument always sounded a bit weak, even though I knew intellectually that it was a fair point.
    • Re:This is good (Score:3, Insightful)

      by HoserHead ( 599 )
      It's not just a "fair point," it's completely true. The clock rate of a processor means NOTHING with regard to speed comparisons. Absolutely nothing.

      The only time you can compare clock rate is when you're comparing two processors of the same architecture. That means Pentium 4 vs Pentium 4, PowerPC 970 vs PowerPC 970. Everything else is completely and utterly meaningless.

      (I've speculated that I could probably spec out a (super, super, superscalar) processor that ran at 10 MHz that outperformed the latest 3 G

  • by Zapraki ( 737378 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:50PM (#12235123)
    Checking out these specs, one thing I noticed were the hard drives:

    Power Mac G5s
    Dual-2GHz: 160GB
    Dual-2.3GHz, Dual-2.7GHz: 250GB

    iMac G5s
    1.8GHz: 160GB
    2.0 GHz: 160GB or 250GB

    eMacs
    Combo Drive: 80GB
    SuperDrive: 160GB

    If I am not mistaken, these are all with one single hard drive.

    Imho, it seems like a generally better practice to have, say, two separate 100GB hard drives than one 200GB one - even if it's more expensive.

    Granted, I'm a non-Mac person so I'm not very familiar with the ins-and-outs of MacOS file management. But for Windows/Linux I like having actual separate hard drives, not just partitions. One smallish drive for OSes (or 2+, one for each), one massive drive for multimedia (^_^), and another drive for all the other stuff, like work/school/programming or whathaveyou. Or, depending, maybe just partitions on one drive for all that data (only so many slots).

    But anyhow, my main point, isn't there a reliability issue with having only one (relatively) massive harddrive? Wouldn't you be better off having multiple, smaller harddrives? Or would you just backup all your data on separate, external mediums anyways?

    I'm interested to know what Mac users think.

    • by micron ( 164661 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @01:54PM (#12236011)
      If you look at it statistically, you have better MTBF on a single drive, than you do on two...

      for example, 1 drive = 500,000 hrs mtbf

      1/500,000 + 1/500,000 = 2/500,000 or 1/250,000

      so two drives give your a MTBF or 250,000 hrs for your drive subsystem.

      Also given, MTBF is more useful for calculating the amount of failures that you will see over a large population of drives as opposed to your single machine experience.

      Using things such as RAID does not put a dent in your drive MTBF, but it does make a huge difference in your data preservation!
      • Just to perfectly clear for everyone, a hard drive's tested Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN REALITY!!

        For the end user, purchasing a hard drive with an MTBF of 500,000 hours indicates that you have a 50% chance of disk drive failure in under 500k hours, and a 50% chance of drive failure after 500k hours. In other words, if a hard drive sells 1,000 units, and half of the drives die in an hour, while the other half last 1 million hours, the MBTF is 500,000 hours. Useful, eh?
        • by micron ( 164661 )
          You are not entirely correct here.

          I will agree that for the average user, MTBF does not mean a whole lot. No single drive is going to last 100+ years!

          There are some of us that run server farms of 20,000 drives or more. When you calculate the MTBF across the farm, and then compare how many drives you fail in a week, the numbers are pretty close.

          This factors in for how many techs I am going to need to keep up with drive replacements.

          So saying that MTBF has absolutely nothing to do with reality is in itsel
    • As a general rule, I use at least two drives. I have three in my G4 PowerMac at the moment. What I love about multiple drives on the Mac is that you can install a system on more than one and boot to it if one drive fails. Yes, this can be done on a PC, but not without fussing with the boot.ini file and the like, IIRC. On a Mac it is quite easy to boot into a different system; either through the control panel, or by having it search available drives for bootable systems!
  • New Mac iBook (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kiriwas ( 627289 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @12:55PM (#12235203) Homepage
    I've had my new Mac iBook (my first Apple purchase) for a little over a month now. My old compaq (750 MHz) laptop died finally from the compaq white screen of death and I needed a replacement. I'm still at University so money is tight; I wanted the PowerMac but the iMac was much more in my range (1300). The one thing I've noticed about it is that you never really notice lag from the processor... BUT... if you don't have like a gig of ram, you can get a lot of lag while multitasking (think all 4 Office apps, firefox, X11 and a couple terminals). Fortunately, adding ram is easier than I thought, and aftermarket ram for them is pretty cheap. Overall, I will probably be saving up for a new G5 desktop whenever I can afford it. I'm hooked!
  • by tyler083 ( 775626 ) <<ten.crelyt> <ta> <relyt>> on Thursday April 14, 2005 @01:33PM (#12235720) Homepage
    the best thing about this has to be the default amount of RAM. currently the iMac's only come with 256. And Apple is damn'd expensive with upgrading this (yes, I know you can buy 3rd party and install it yourself). Think Secret is reporting that the entire iMac line will start with 512... i can only hope it is one dimm
    • Think Secret is reporting that the entire iMac line will start with 512... i can only hope it is one dimm

      If this is true, it's the best business decision at Apple since the iPod. I sincerely hope it's true, and if it is, I won't care how they do it. Making a G5 look slow due to disk swapping is just pathetic, and they can't be saving that much money by going with 256MB anymore. Two 256MB would be fine with me, though it probably won't be how they do it. I mean, what's the price difference between one 256MB

  • by Enrique1218 ( 603187 ) on Thursday April 14, 2005 @02:26PM (#12236479) Journal
    I am in the market for a new market for a new Macintosh. However, since I am poor, I would like Apple to put dual cores or dual processors in every damn system they make. Don't hold back. Just think of it, dual processor eMac. See Dell top that!!! Have mercy on me please, I can't afford a PowerMac in this economy!!! Rant done, I crawl back to my shanty.

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