Intel Flaunts Mac mini Knock-off 1092
Rollie Hawk writes "Remember how the Mac mini was designed by Apple to steal PC customers? Now Intel wants to steal them back. Adopting a shockingly similar lunch box shape and light-weight design, Intel's upcoming Mini PC features all the sleekness and portability (physical, that is) of the Mac mini with none of the Mac benefits. Well, at least it will probably have a faster processor. Now if only someone would make a Cobalt Qube knock-off for me."
i is for innovation (Score:5, Funny)
Now I remember why I buy AMD.
Re:i is for innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
I dont want XP anymore for my home/family computer.
Linux isn't ready yet when compared to OSX.
Intel just doesn't get it. I'm not surprised...
Intel, its Microsoft that is going to kill you!
Re:i is for innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
it's an empty case (Score:5, Informative)
they haven't done anything but stick a clock on the face of an empty stylish plastic box yet.
apple is shipping....
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like what you'll find a lot of at a CES. Seriously, there was something called The Brick ages ago, so this still isn't anything new. And what about all this Mini ITX stuff which has been around for years? Next...
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Interesting)
This intel mockup is an empty plastic box with a wristwatch glued to the front. while Kevin could not fit in an optical drive, he got a lot farther than Intel did.
on top of that the Mac Mini has some extra room and an unused internal firewire connection that this week sparked speculation of possible future revision, or that the rumored built in iPod dock was in the plans at some point.
http://www.kevinrose.com/index.php/weblog/comment
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Interesting)
dont a lot of the mac desktops have internal firewire ports? Im pretty sure the G4 towers did although I am not sure about the G5. I wonder how much the presence of one really indicates that they intended to use it for an iPod doc.
you do have to wonder why they would put one in the mini though. there is no hope of adding an internal firewire device.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Insightful)
As the article said, this was just to "spur creativity" in the community. "Spend a few years and a few million and you might come up with something that looks almost this good".
Also clearly apparent, the cooling in such a small case would simply not work for a useful speed of processor in the PC world. They'd have to put a "mobile" grade processor in the box which would really cramp the user's style.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it so hard to make a decent-looking case that doesn't look like someone riced it up with stupid lights or clear plastic? I just ordered the parts to build a PC, and the hardest part was finding a case that didn't look like crap. I wasn't successful.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
This is really interesting. Since I've seen (and eventually bought
Same with desktops. Why can't somebody come up with a decent design? And why are the Apple guys able to just get it right? And not just once, but most of their stuff looks really amazing. It's not like there aren't any designers out there
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
How much money for design? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to some news sources, Apple plans to sell around a million of the things. The cost of the design comes out to two bucks a unit.
Supposing I'm off by an order of magnitude, we're still talking about $20 per unit paid to the designers. So I really don't think that it's the design driving the price of the units.
I think that the price of Apple computers is generally driven by basic economics: how much are people willing to pay for them? If that number is greater than the cost to manufacture (including the $2 to $20 for the fancy design), then they do it; otherwise, they don't. The manufacturing cost only sets a lower limit on the price, but it doesn't set it.
People are willing to pay more for Apples, because they like the design and reliability. Some of that comes from spending more on designers; some comes from more expensive components (Apple for years insisted on using pricey SCSI before finally joining the rest of the world in IDE, for example).
A lot of it comes from the price of alternatives; Apple almost certainly looks at the price of a Dell marketed to the same audience and adds 20% or so. People are willing to pay a premium because they're getting a better piece of equipment. Apple has a tendency to tell people that they want a better computer than the one Dell is marketing to them.
Dell will happily sell you the cheapest machine they think you'll buy; Apple would rather sell you a computer that would make you happy. That gives them only a portion of the market, but it's a very cheerful market segment.
Design is the reason they can charge more, but it's not to pay the designers. Designers are cheap compared to the rest of the process. There might be some room for a competitor to Dell to arise with the same philosophy in the Wintel platform, but they'll be stuck with the same small market share Apple gets from seeking the high end, and they'll still be stuck with Windows as the OS, which will limit how much users like the product no matter how spiffy the physical design.
Re:How much money for design? (Score:4, Insightful)
Obviously I failed.
Re:How much money for design? (Score:5, Insightful)
Salaries (Score:5, Interesting)
But custom as opposed to commodity parts cost quite a bit of coin. Of course, not the amount that would make up for a large cost diference, perhaps fifty bucks per. I remember going to the plant that produced the NeXT cube and well as Linn tonearms, and the mold was pretty amazing. The final piece also required custom finishing, as molds have seams, and Steve wanted a seamless design. The stuff is more costly than you think. Which is exactly why so few companies invest in the processes, people, and long term commitments to producing excellent design.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Funny)
499$ ?
What do you want? Porsche for the Proletariat?
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
I never said that *I* think Macs are too expensive. I think you get exactly what you pay for - a superior machine both in design and execution.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you'd have to also consider usability, security, size, noise, longevity, style, included software, included hardware
Macs usually lose on the included hardware aspect, whilst winning on everything else. However most people seem to judge a computer solely by the included hardware, and those people are fucking retards because of it.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Informative)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Informative)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Insightful)
Get back to us when you can do that for under $500.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Insightful)
Then you need to make sure they're all compatible, and that it all works with your OS. Apple does all this for you.
Then you need to install the OS, and all the drivers. Find if you're a nerd, but not for everyone else. Apple does all this for you.
Then if something goes wrong you need to work out which actual component is broken, send it back to the manufacturer at your own expense, then hope they actually send you back a replacement. This is if you know how to work out which part is broken, and how to remove it and replace it. Apple does all this for you.
Then factor in that the Mac is probably quieter, smaller and better looking.
The PC might have better individual parts, but the whole of the Mac is more than the sum of the parts.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
And here's why normal people don't claim a win after the first basket:
You spec'd out XP Home, an intentionally limited "discount" and "lite" version of the OS. So, let's just replace that with the real version of the OS: XP Pro, $153.95 from New Egg. $60 more, and you've already lost, 'cause you're over $500 now.
But, I'll continue.
Good find on the CD-RW drive. Now, what do you do when you want to play a DVD?
Right, the Mac Mini comes with a combo drive. The cheapest one on New Egg (a Rosewill? Who the hell are they?) is $31, so add another 8 dollars.
Nice giant case, too. Look at the comments in the reviews on New Egg - they say it would be nice if it could be quieter... and that's with the 1 fan in the side. You really think that one fan, plus the one on the power supply, is gonna keep that AMD 64 cool? So, toss in $20 for some more fans, plus another $20-50 for sound dampeners, fan controllers, etc. to try to get it down to the 22 dBA of the Mac Mini. And then fail to do so.
So, now that you've got all that, what are you going to run on this system of yours? Notepad? Solitare?
So, add in a copy of Office to compete with Appleworks ($250), a copy of Acid to compete with Garageband ($100), a licensed copy of Acrobat Distiller so that you can create PDFs (it's built in on the Mac), a copy of Adobe Premiere Express to compete with iMovie ($200), a copy of something that can handle full-screen video conferencing (any ideas?), plus a copy of Quicken for your taxes ($30). Oh, and 'cause you're running a Windows box, don't forget the Anti-virus software ($20).
So, for over $1000, you've got a box that's 10 times larger, 10 times noisier, has discount components (that combo drive) with questionable lifespans, and yes, has a 64-bit processor in it.
Now you just have to wait for a 64-bit version of Windows.
-T
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:4, Informative)
Um. That's fine and all, but what happens when you actually want to use that computer to do something other that, you know, sorting numbers?
It's entirely possible that, if you're willing to completely discount the cost of your own labor, you might be able to build an ass-ugly computer for a few hundred bucks. But it won't have any software. How much is the software going to cost you? And don't say "it's free," because we're talking about a Mac here. You can't buy a PC equivalent of iLife at any price, but you can at least get kinda-sorta close by buying various pieces of off-the-shelf software. You can't even get that close using freeware.
So for your investment of X hundred dollars and countless hours of your own time, you've succeeded in building an empty computer that you then have to spend hundreds or even thousands filling with software.
Dumb idea.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Informative)
I didn't call Macs outrageously expensive, I said that the style argument should be brought up when others do. Which happens quite often around here.
Someone has to pay the designers who created those computers, who made them look better than all the others. Consumers do when they pay more for a Mac. That is my entire point.
Why don't you go find a real troll and bother them?
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Informative)
WOW. You must lack the capacity for logic.
Maybe you should learn to remember what you said 60 minutes ago.
Maybe you should learn to use the full quote, in context
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Funny)
vprMatrix (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Informative)
Try Lian-Li [lian-li.com]
But I agree with you, most stock PC cases are crap, and are too flashy without elegance. I love the Lian-li cases, they're clean and don't look tacky if you decide to put a few quad-LED fans in there. All sharp corners are lined with a plastic to avoid cuts, the cases are easy to take apart, and most models have slide out motherboard trays. However, these cases do cost a premium.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I start valueing good design and thought put into things. I also value the fact that my computers now are almost perfectly silent - I don't want to sit next to an open case with whirring harddisks and fans anymore. A silent and well-designed computer serves me much better than one that has 100 times the power - that I'm not using anyway.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Funny)
Not sure it qualifies as a "good idea" that's been done, but it has been done [vinteropbevaring.dk]...
(For extra fun, make sure you've got a mouth full of your favorite beverage before clicking that link.)
So what else is new? (Score:5, Insightful)
As any Apple-watcher will tell you, this has been SOP with the Wintel world for decades now.
The only thing dumber than the folks surprised at Intel's shameless copycat effort are the ones who mistake that empty plastic box for a fully-functional, shipping, ready-to-go-on-your-desk computer. [apple.com]
Re:it's an empty case (Score:3, Informative)
I hope you can return whatever ugly case you bought, because there are some pretty nice looking ones out there... you just have to look really really hard.
Cases:
Silverstone LC09 [silverstonetek.com] (Mini-ITX)
Ahanix D4 [ahanix.com]
Soldam Alphia [soldam.net]
Barebones:
Shuttle SB86i [shuttle.com]
Complete PC:
Hush [hush-technologies.com]
Most of these are not as cool looking as my Mac Mini, but then, you wouldn't be limited to 1.43GHz G4 and laptop hard drives.
Re:it's an empty case (Score:5, Funny)
Intel Flaunts Empty Plastic Case
In a stunning show of shamelessness in the face of a total lack of innovation, Intel today unveiled to a gaggle of gullible corporate lackeys and ass-kissing note-takers their newest product: an empty plastic box. An Intel spokesperson said they hope that some day, someone will build a computer to put in the box. At that point, they hope to load it down with the deeply flawed and customer-hostile Microsoft Windows operating system, thereby releasing misery from the confines of dens and offices and into family rooms worldwide.
Interesting. (Score:3, Interesting)
...so long as it can pull its weight doing the media junk in the house.
Re:Wait until someone trys to market one... (Score:3, Interesting)
Likewise, a computer the size of a Mac Mini is hardly original - people have imagined stuff like that for years. Apple is just the first company to pull it off on such a large scale.
Re:Wait until someone trys to market one... (Score:3, Informative)
My Macintosh SE/30 [lowendmac.com] says they did, and its ancestors agree, starting from the original Mac 128k. Well, maybe Apple didn't invent the form factor entirely, but they definitely were the first to deploy it on a large scale.
Yes. This form factor was rather pop
Not "Upcoming"! (Score:5, Informative)
From the second paragraph of the article: " It's unlikely that Intel itself would build such a device."
Then, the article clearly goes on to say that this is a empty plastic shell, designed merely to inspire Intel's partners, not an example of any upcoming Intel product. I guess that doesn't sound as exciting and inflamatory, though.
What's funny about this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Who, exactly, is the target market for the x86 Mini? PC's are already dirt cheap, and we know that shrinking down the form factor like that will only raise the price over existing desktop PC's. They aren't going to convert Mac users, because Mac users a) don't buy on price alone, and b) already have a Mac option in that category, so they will buy the Mac Mini.
Logically, for Intel to compete against the Mac Mini, they need to develop an iPod killer, not another desktop system.
I'm going to switch (Score:5, Interesting)
Sam
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:3, Informative)
though sometimes right after the new OS ships they will take existing stock of hardware and give you a boxed version of the OS for free. sometimes........
10.4 will be shipping well before the Mini gets revised, unless some major software issues come up.
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's my bias: I've used PCs since I was a young pup and have recently had to use some Macs for school work and presentations.
Please note, the following is an opinion, based on personal experience. The usual Mac egotistic reply is not going to change my opinion, so please be insightful if you are going to reply. People always
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:3, Funny)
I'm too stupid to figure out how to use a Mac, therefore I don't think anyone else should switch.
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:5, Insightful)
Translation:
I'm a dick who insults the intelligence of anyone who "thinks different" than I do.
I use linux, but I have seriously been considering buying a Mac for a while. At least, I was considering it until I actually tried using one. I used it for a whole summer, and learned to hate it. Nothing worked like I expected.
I have no problems with Macs in general. I still might buy a MiniMac as a "family room" computer. But there is no way that I could use one as my personal computer. They are designed for a different type of computer user than me.
So why do you insist that someone is a idiot because they don't like the OSX interface? Do you seriously believe that every intelligent person has the exact same view you do about it?
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:4, Insightful)
Preferring one UI over the other has nothing to do with it. Assuming the different UI doesn't work because it's not identical to Windows shows that you're either unwilling or unable to learn anything new.
Someone who's able to switch between Windows, Linux, and a Mac and use them all is not an idiot, even if he or she strongly prefers one over the others.
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:5, Informative)
A few comments make me think you have missed the point:
Finder is like "Explorer" for Windows - it allows you to navigate a file system, go in and out of folders, etc.
"Docking Station" (the Dock) is NOT like the Start menu in windows and NOT like the task bar ar the bottom either. It is a place where you can put applications you often run, so they are easily accessed, as well as applications that are running, to easily switch between, as well as open or closed documents you may be working on and even file folders and finally, the trash can. That's why they call it the Dock, you can just "dock" things there.
Another issue I think is confounding things is that to install an application in OS X, 9 times out of 10, you just copy one file from the CD to the hard drive. It can live in just about any directory and when you click it, it launches. This is WAY different than windows, but very nice because you don't end up with dozens of files everywhere for a single program (makes uninstalling clean too!) But I digress - you may find it helpful to drag your "Applications" folder to the dock (right side of the divider bar, near the trash can is where documents and folders go). When you want to launch an application, simply hold down your mouse click on that folder for about a second and the contents will pop up, allowing you to launch an application from there.
As for the keyboard shortcut things, I am surprised how much you feel they are necessary. I don't believe, but admit I could be wrong, there is anything that cannot be done with just the mouse that can with a keyboard shortcut.
I have two recommendations - if you are really worried about the way the OS works, go to a local Apple store or even CompUSA/other Apple retailer and ASK SOMEONE TO SHOW YOU AROUND IT. Yeah, it is a different experience, but I argue it would be easier to learn than Windows, had someone no experience with either OS. SECONDLY, there are great books at Amazon/etc for switching to OS X from XP. Here [amazon.com] is just one.
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you kidding? Your Linux/Windows gurus must be dumb as bricks. I don't use OS X much (basically just as a jukebox at work) and have never added a user before, but just did it now in about 15 seconds.
System Preferences (its in the dock by default) - Accounts - Hit the + icon. DONE.
I suggest you fire these "gurus" you speak of.
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I'm going to switch (Score:5, Insightful)
To me, your rant sounds like you were looking for an imitation of Windows on the Mac.
The reason I like the Mac so much is because they did _not_ imitate Windows! Instead, they designed the OS from (almost) the ground and created something that was created with usability in mind, instead of creating something that need to be backwards compatible with MS-DOS.
For the past four weeks, I haven't booted in Windows once at home, and I now find Windows a pain to use at work.
My $0.02
Just an empty shell (Score:3, Informative)
Still Misses The Point (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel can make whatever shaped/sized box they want, but it's still going to ship with Windows for Joe Consumer. A box that can get easily 0wned is what people are growing weary of. Mac Mini targets those folks as well as iPod users (not necessarily separate groups there). This knock-off once again misses the point.
What makes this interesting is how well it runs Linux. Otherwise.... pfffft!
Re:Still Misses The Point (Score:3, Insightful)
certainly true. however, let us not forget that osx is not perfect either. nor, thou it saddens me to admit it, is linux. as marketshare shifts toward these from windows, which i sincerely hope it continues to do, they will also be targeted for all manner of exploits. the point of comparison is how well they deal with being targeted. i think it would be difficult to react in a worse way than microsoft.
on a side note, i don't understand the
Re:Still Misses The Point (Score:5, Insightful)
Didn't people learn w/ the iMac? (Score:5, Interesting)
Uh... (Score:5, Funny)
Way to go there, Intel. Suprisingly, it's about as functional as any XP machine once it's been let onto the Internet(s).
pathetic attempt (Score:5, Insightful)
their design is superior, the only thing special about ours....we use a x86 cpu!!
Reminds me of Creative Zen looking awfully similar to the iPod mini, but much uglier colors.
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:5, Insightful)
Two months ago, you had your choice of hundreds of different mini itx systems. Now everybody thinks the Mac Mini is a new idea, and that anybody making a small computer is a copycat.
I see the same thing happen when talking about the iPod as well. A hard drive in a portable music player was an evolutionary idea (notice the E at the beginning), and the logical next step. Hard drive players existed before first gen iPods shipped, but Apple's image as being different and hip advertised their product as if it was the only hard drive mp3 player you could buy.
I like Apple products, and they make quality hardware, but the examples you used were not revolutionary. They were next step, no surprises, and not even Apple's idea.
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:5, Insightful)
Look past the components and look at the design. You are absolutely right that Apple didn't invent the idea of a hard-drive in a portable music player. But you are absolutely wrong if you think the iPod wasn't revolutionary. Look at the form of the iPod. Look at how small, sleek and pretty it is. Now consider its user interface. Take in the simplicity of its menu system, its scrollwheel and button layout and overall ease of use. Now consider how easily and effectively it interfaces with iTunes, how trivial it is to create playlists and fille your iPod with music.
Now compare that experience (that of the revision 1 iPod) with the hard drive players available at the time. Is there a difference? Is that difference major? I think so.
I've given an iPod to people utterly unfamiliar with gadgetry of any kind and they were up and using the iPod in under a minute (after they got over how cool it looked). THAT is the Apple difference and why they sell products. They lead in a way that is foreign to many PC users: design.
Taft
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:3, Insightful)
Really?
I watched an newbie explore an iPod Mini only last week. His first question was "how do I turn it off?" (and was incredulous at the two answers: "hold down play", and "you don't need to"). Then I challenged him to find the volume control, which he was unable to do.
(Admitted
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they didn't do much different technically but if the effect they had was quadrupling (or more - no idea, I'm just arguing principles here) a market, then surely that's a revolution of some kind?
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:pathetic attempt (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, the cappuccino is small, but its design is bulky and clumsy compared to the Mini. As Apple has consistently proved, its not all about size and speed. Design, user experience and beauty are important, too.
Now look at the pics of Intel's concept mini-PC from the original article--forgetting for a second that it doesn't even exist yet. (Its not even a prototype, just a case with some lights on it.) Now try to tell me Intel isn't following Apple's l
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
only if Intel says it's okay... (Score:5, Funny)
Apple creates something beautiful again, and everybody says "Wow, it's perfect, but it's an Apple".
Then within a few months {"Intel", "Dell", "Microsoft", "Compaq"} tells the rest of the world "it's alright, go ahead and start copying Apple".
So everybody does, and tells {"Intel", "Dell", "Microsoft", "Compaq"} how great they are.
again.
But where's all the software goodness? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention the splendor of no Adware or a major risk of viruses.
Re:But where's all the software goodness? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention the splendor of no Adware or a major risk of viruses.
I think the whole point of the Mac Mini is to offer a cheap Mac to pursuade users to move from Windows / Intel to Macintosh / Apple.. But I'll argue a
Refinement? (Score:3, Insightful)
Compare iMovie to MS Movie Maker and iPhoto to MS Photo Editor and you'll see that Apple has already done a lot of this "refinement" you speak of.
Personally I love the Mac Mini, but I know it's not for me. What I really want is a single processor G5 cube with graphics on an AGP or PCI-E card. I'd p
Intel Repairs Segmentation Fault ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft will doubtless resist the move: if it's not a "PC" then clients might not want "Windows", that clunky 19th century command center for a steam-powered computing box. Dell etc will also resist, because clients might get into the nasty habit of upgrading their CPUs only; even worse, some might dump laptops in favor of just taking their company "mini desktop" home in the backpack.
Summary - the Mac mini has broken Apple's hi-price policy, but it has also broken many of the unwritten laws of the PC cartel. Clearly, a form factor who's time has come !
It's the operating system, stupid! (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have NEVER bought a mac had they not released the mini because I was not about to pay a premium for hardware when I don't do any graphic design work or play many games. So all these companies that are trying to release a Mac Mini killer are barking up the wrong tree when they just release a traditional pc with a small footprint. It's the operating system, stupid! I don't have an answer for them because I just don't think linux is ready for prime time yet, but I am evidence that people are ready for an alternative, but it has nothing to do with the fact that our computers are too big now. If apple had released a $499 machine that was the size of a G5 tower, I would have bought that as well.
So, it's the... (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft + DRM integration talked about as well! (Score:5, Informative)
That seems to be more disturbing than Intel trying to get manufacturers to compete with a mini-esque PC.
Inspiration and Innovation (Score:5, Interesting)
At one time, Compaq, Dell, and even Microsoft could be expected to innovate. Just look at the original Armada. Visual Basic 3.0. the Pre-inspiron laptops. Ya, they weren't the best products ever, but they were very innovative, industry-changing ideas at the time.
Now they're just a slow evolution of an old idea. For people who don't like the press that Apple gets, and would like to see others garner some press time - well, what the hell has ANYONE in the industry done in the past 5 years?
Intel does not need to inspire the industry with a Mac clone. The industry has seen it - and is merely betting that people won't switch.
That's a good bet, but it shows me how much the PC industry has totally lost it's spark of innovation, despite loads of inspiration from a non-competitor.
The Aztec (Score:5, Informative)
Not Mini Knockoff...That Was Intel's New Heatsink! (Score:4, Funny)
Intersting (Score:5, Interesting)
2) Its not the power brick, powering this unit. But the cooling tower you also need to hang off of it! With the earplugs included in the box!
3) Intel been doing this "odd shape case thing" for years and no one has coppied them yet. Remember the Aztec pyrimid? Uggly shape and colors.
4) But Microsoft want to go to the "Teddybear" form factor case!
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=545
5) The "low heat" and also "low power" micro/Pico-ITX form factor MB are not made by Intel but are being driven by VIA CPU's and chipset!
6) And is this from the same Intel that was hyping so much bleeding edge stuff, over the last few years. That after X months usually said we can't do it?
Newsflash: (Score:3, Funny)
Huh? A Prescott would melt any box that size. (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel would be a lot more inspirational if they showed up with a circuit board prototype for a small form factor that comes in with a reasonable dollar cost and heat envelope.
A hunk of plastic when intel doesn't really offer a solution that fits in the plastic seems kind of pointless. Does intel offer any explanation of What processor/chipset would power their partners? A prescot would melt anything that size unless that was the heatsink.
Only really leaves Dothan solutions, which intel doesn't really sanction or price for desktop usage.
The only PC form factors close to this are micro-itx (non intel but shipping/working) and nano-itx (also non intel and maybe non shipping).
Maybe Intel is inspiring it's partners to think about using Via Epia solutions.
Microsoft has a head start (Score:4, Insightful)
why so negative? (Score:3, Insightful)
cheap PC hardware isn't the point (Score:3, Interesting)
Getting another cheap piece of commodity PC hardware out into the markey isn't the point. The point is that this is a small, cheap multi-media piece of hardware.
FTA: Intel on Wednesday showed off its living room PC of the future--and it looks a lot like the Mac Mini.
This can easily play DVDs, mp3s, record TV (think tivo or myth for that matter). How long until either Apple releases the software for running your own Tivo, or importing TV directly into iMovie. This is meant to be the digital jukebox that you use when you're not "working", but instead enjoying life.
apple and others (Score:3, Insightful)
As if someone would proudly show a concept car of a new Mini or Smart, almost ten years after the fact...
This lack of imagination is almost insulting to PC brands that try to do entertainment designs or small form factors. I'm generally totally unimpressed by PC design, but one has to acknowledge the fact that there is already enough on the market to surpass Intel's revolutionary concept.
Never mind Apple, I don't think Intel can do anything design-wise to insult them. Apple's actual products are way above and beyond these concepts.
Re:What Benifit? (Score:3, Interesting)
My favorite computer is my PS2 and my second favorite is my Cheap-n-crappy DVD player.
Re:What Benifit? (Score:3)
Define "good software". Are you referring to business and graphic design software? Or, are you just worried about the most recent FPS?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wow, Deja Vu (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a world of original ideas in the universe, but the PC world repeatedly chooses to steal Apple's designs.
The only reason there's PC cases in colors other than beige is because Apple created the iMac. The only reason there's a Windows "XP" is because there was a Mac OS "X". The only reason you can import and organize music with Windows Media Player is because Apple created iTunes. The only reason there's
Re:Wow, Deja Vu (Score:3, Interesting)
The only reason there's PC cases in colors other than beige is because Apple created the iMac.
Sorry, I was buying non beige PC cases way back in 1996.
The only reason there's a Windows "XP" is because there was a Mac OS "X".
If thats true, what about the AthlonXP?
The only reason you can import and organize music with Windows Media Player is because Apple created iTunes.
You do realise iTunes origionally started out as a third party player that Apple bought?
The only reason there's a Windows
Re:Fabulous (Score:3, Insightful)
It's only functionality is a clock. That's all it can do. There's no CPU, no motherboard, nothing. It's a mockup of a PC designed to compete with the Mac mini.
Re:Fabulous (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Jeebus (Score:5, Insightful)
What happened was that people got fed up with big ugly boxes that used a lot of power to make a lot of noise and heat. Especially since few people apart from gamers need the processing power of new machines. Being small, unobtrusive, less energy hungry, cool and quiet are also features you know, stuff that a lot of people are obviously willing to pay for. Hardly marketing spin.
Re:Jeebus (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's shifting towards adequetly powered machines with features that actually work all of the time.
computer is a tool, not a toy, when did we see a shift from functionality to marketing spin?
As soon as Joe Consumer wanted one in the living room instead of just the home office. Why is this a bad thing? Miniaturization will just increase the pervasiveness of computer hardware in general. There *needs* to be a paradigm shift in the PC industry. These things need to go from tempremental monsters that need more attention than my two year old, to appliances on par with my Tivo. To an extent, Mac is successfully in this transition state already. (no - I'm no fanboy, don't even own one, but I think they're well made)
Re:Jeebus (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually this is a shift to functionality. The Mac Mini comes with everything the average person needs. FireWire for dumping video and hooking up your iPod. Ethernet for networking. A good but not great video card. USB for hooking up mice, keyboards, scanners, memory drives and game controllers. You can add an airport to the Mini as an option. The only thing I see missing from the Mac Mini is a video in.
As a tool these new computers are complete and simple. They are more functional for most people.
You see I have been in computers a long time. I can remeber when you had many players in the market each one very different. Back in the 8 bit days you had Commodore. Atari, Tandy, Ti, Apple, and Sinclair. Each had it's own OS if you want to call it an OS. You had many different types of CPUs z80, 6502, 6809, and the TI chip. Even fast forward to the late 80s and you had Amiga, Atari ST, and Mac pushing to innovate. The PC you have now SUCKED compared to the Amiga, Atari ST, and Mac. The PC only won because of marketing spin. Look at a PC from 85 and look at the Amiga. The Amiga was cheaper, had better graphics, stereo sound, would multi task, could have a hard drive partition bigger then 33 megs and access more than 640k of ram with out doing all sorts of strangeness. A pc at the time was a 286 running at maybe 16 mhz and ran DOS 3.3, maybe windows 1 but no one really used that. The idea that PC industry has gone from technically driven to marketing drive just now is very very funny. It has been all marketing for the last 20+years.
Re:I still don't understand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mini ITX boards have been around for years; Mac minis are 1/3 the volume and 1/2 the size. Nano ITX has been announced many months before the Mac mini, but hasn't shipped yet, while the mini has. Even still, when someone took a prototype nano-itx board and tried to fit it into a Mac mini, it was discovered it didn't fit; they hat to saw down the heatsink AND they had to remove the optical drive, so the Mac mini is STILL smaller than nano-itx.
There's nothing revolutionary about the mini, other than it's size AND price; the only similar PC is the Cappuccino PCs, which are slightly smaller, but nearly twice as expensive. Even Shuttle based boxes, which can hold almost 3 Mac minis inside them, cost more.
Re:I still don't understand... (Score:5, Insightful)
All of a sudden, an entry level Mac is now truly entry level on price. And a lot of people have said that price was the biggest thing that PC's had over Macs.
The empty box from intel is interesting just because it's so obviously inspired (copied) from Apple. It really looks like they just painted over the apple logo, put a couple lines across it, and glued a little digital clock to it. It's amusing for the same reason that the early imac knockoffs were. There's hundreds of ways to make an all-in-one machine, and using curvy, translucent, brightly colored plastic isn't the most obvious one. I'm all for sharing and the progression of knowledge, but there's a difference between building upon what came before, and just throwing out a me-too product.
Re:I still don't understand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, it was "announced", but it's still not available! have you seen one for sale? Anywhere? Not to mention that their performance sucks when compared to Mac Mini. And their price is more or less the same as the Mini. And you can't run OS X on one
The Mini is interesting and newsworthy because it does the same thing Mini-ITX and the like do, only better. And because it's the cheapest Mac there is.
Have you compared the mini to the shuttle? (Score:3)
So, yeah, when Intel announces that they are pulling the power supply and removing the PCI slots, and puts it in a chrome box about the size of a CD drive - they're ripping off Apple's design.