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Ballmer Says iPod Users are Thieves
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Oct 04, 2004 08:16 AM
from the hurting-my-feelings dept.
from the hurting-my-feelings dept.
A 'music thief' (apparently) writes "According to Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft: "The most common format of music on an iPod is 'stolen'."
He appears convinced Microsoft will lead the way in Digital Rights Management and also believes Microsoft will steal a march on Apple in making the digital home a reality because Apple "doesn't have the volumes".
"There is no way that you can get there with Apple. The critical mass has to come from the PC, or a next-generation video device," he said."
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Filty thieves (Score:5, Funny)
Quickie Slashdot Poll... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Roughly what percent of your music collection is unauthorized files from P2P like Kazaa, FTP, etc.?
2) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from sources like iTunes Music Store, eMusic, etc?
3) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from shareable sources like Creative Commons-licensed music?
4) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from rips of your own CDs?
5) Roughly what percent of your music collection comes from rips of friends' CDs?
(and what am I missing?)
Parent
Re:Quickie Slashdot Poll... (Score:5, Informative)
2) 0% (iTunes store only just opened in Germany)
3) 1% (The OpenBSD songs, + RMS Free Software Song)
4) 95% (most of it classic and Jazz)
5) 4% (note that this is legal in Germany, and AFAIK, Canada)
Parent
Re:Quickie Slashdot Poll... (Score:5, Interesting)
For me, about 90%.
Parent
Re:Quickie Slashdot Poll... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, Ballmer conceded it isn't going to be an easy battle to win. "Most people still steal music," he said.
Most people steal music? This informal poll might suggest a different story.
I'd love to know what numbers he's using to arrive at his assertation that "most people" still steal music. I seem to remember reading that many people have stopped downloading music from P2P sources [technewsworld.com] - they don't "still steal music," do they?
I don't know, it sounds like he's making a blanket statement to support his position without telling us how he intends to back his statement up. Perhaps he doesn't intend to?
Parent
Pot... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Pot... (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially when you consider the fact that most iPod owners are Windows users, and the music they've uploaded was previously on their PC.
Part of the reason people steal music is money, but some of it is that the DRM stuff out there has not been that easy to use.
Found this quote interesting, does it really state that people want to use DRM to copy music at home, but can't quite figure out how to use it?
Parent
Re:Pot... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess that will be done by developers, developers, developers, developers...
Parent
He's got a keen business sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He's got a keen business sense (Score:5, Insightful)
His target "customers" are people like the music industry which he is not alienating. He knows that users are stupid for the most part and will buy what's cheaper and more popular so he doesn't mid alienating them.
Parent
He's got the wrong business sense (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the higher-ups at Microsoft have completely lost the sense of how to do business in a healthy market.
That's why everything Microsoft does fails or produces massive losses when not being pushed by the PC domination.
Just look at Hailstorm. Or XBox. Or Windows/Alpha.
Parent
But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait for longhorn (Score:5, Funny)
Well, yeah right now most iPod users have pcs. Of course when Longhorn arrives, there will be a little problem uploading your music, and every now and then the entire iPod memory will be wiped.
You know that MS will be working hard for a solution...
From MS marketing, 2006:
"It's probably due to Apple's implementation of some standard."
"You could get a solution quicker if you switch to our new win-Pod(TM) that implements Microsoft standards. It uses a new version of Embedded Windows Media Player(TM). Here's a coupon for %75 off your purchase price, and we have a $20.oo rebate as well."
"But we'll keep working on that i-pod 'fix', don't you worry. When the 'fix' is in, you'll know it!"
Microsoft, The job isn't done until Lotus, Novell, Netscape, iPod won't run
Parent
Too late in the game (Score:5, Insightful)
Mad? (Score:5, Funny)
He really seems to love his [mac.com]...
All I have on my iPod... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:All I have on my iPod... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Must come from where? (Score:5, Funny)
I think he means: 'the critical mass has to come from windows'. Why? No technical reason, it's just because people at MS will have a temper tamtrum if this doesn't go their way.
Volumes/Next Generation (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me that Apple is a lot more successful in pushing large volumes of next generation devices than MS.
Re:Volumes/Next Generation (Score:5, Insightful)
I've not see anything exciting come from Microsoft in a very long time. I don't believe people are all that interested in the sort of "Digital Home" Microsoft seem to envision, either.
Parent
Taken out of context... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Taken out of context... (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't about music piracy. This is about Ballmer taking a shot at Apple because they have a product which is user focused, whereas MS have a product which is RIAA focused.
Else, he would have just said that "more digital music is pirated than not". But he didn't, did he?
-- james
Parent
I'm either being synical (Score:5, Insightful)
Mp3s -> Mp3 Players -> ???? -> Profit ?
I may not be speaking for the masses, but the key thing about having my music in my player of choice (Archos AV340) is the fact that I can take the music from *any* source, and because I choose to download the mp3s rather than re-recording from original Vinyl, ripping from CD, remastering from cassette, 8track etc Is purely a matter of my taste and value of my time.
Prevent people from using music easily that they ALREADY LEGAL OWN in one format or another, and see that format/player go the way of the BETAMAX.
Owning an iPod I find I buy more (Score:5, Insightful)
Unreal. (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article:
"We've had DRM in Windows for years. The most common format of music on an iPod is 'stolen'."
Because everybody knows windows is all about security. If you put a pirated mp3 on a windows box, the drm system won't allow you to access it. All the windows boxes running eMule and Kaaza are merely figments of your imagination. They're iPods. Honest.
He doesn't get it (Score:5, Interesting)
FUD and nothing more (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because someone COULD steal something doesn't mean they will, and doesn't automatically make the something stolen.
The most common format of music... (Score:5, Insightful)
Balmer, "iPod" can easily be replaced with "Windows" in your preceding statement. MP3 has been the de facto standard for music files for 7-8 years now, maybe longer. Were iPods around 7-8 years ago? No. What were they played on? Windows, under Winamp. The masses have understood how to rip their own (un-DRM'd) CDs since the turn of the millenium. Napster, Limewire, Kazaa, eDonkey and many more of flourished (til legal proceedings crush each) with trading of these files. I don't recall using my iPod to access any of these services. Oh yes, that's right. I used my Windows-running PC.
I know it's FUD, but this is just plain lousy FUD. Anyone with half a brain can see right through his attempt to link Windows with anti-piracy.
Nice quote... (Score:5, Funny)
"My 12-year-old at home doesn't want to hear that he can't put all the music that he wants in all of the places that he would like it," he joked.
Translation:
"When I tried to use my kid's iPod on a recent family trip, my son told me to shove my Barry Manilow CD up my ass."
What's his f'ing point? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhh, yeah... And the most common format of music on a Windows PC iiiiiissss...........? Uhh huh, yeah.
So, if ANY company is accountable for music theft -- OBVIOUSLY it's Microsoft - they have the 'volumes,' right?
Bah!
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
And then again
Yeah, and? (Score:5, Insightful)
Music is a commodity these days. It isn't special like it was in the 50's. People expect music at all hours, but it isn't priced right to meet the current usage of music, so people download the extra music they need to fill in the gap.
I don't see how Microsoft can claim any kind of moral superiority over Apple. Apple at least had the decency to offer reasonably priced legal music quite some time ago. Per-song pricing allows you to take a small risk to discover new music, or just get the 2 good songs on a modern pop album that are any good. MSN Music is a lot more recent.
I can only assume that Microsoft will be designing Media Software that will not play non-MS-approved content. Otherwise how can it tell whether a song you are playing is something you ripped yourself, or downloaded? Surely you could burn a CD and re-rip if Microsoft enforced that type of requirement?
These big companies are only pissed off because online music sharing allows people to discover new music that isn't on the big labels, and then spend money on that music instead of HypedTrash. Most studies show that music purchasing hasn't dropped since file sharing started, at the worst it fluctuated in line with the economy, at best it has actually soared over what it should have been.
Consumers want too much (Score:5, Interesting)
... according to Ballmer.
"My 12-year-old at home doesn't want to hear that he can't put all the music that he wants in all of the places that he would like it,"
I don't want to hear that either.
The most common format of music on my WinXP box... (Score:5, Interesting)
So what if "[you've] had DRM in Windows for years" Microsoft? Windows did anything but halt the 13.6 million Napster users [wikipedia.org] "stealing" music, et cetera.
Steve Ballmer is a Douchebag (Score:5, Interesting)
So Steve, STFU and GTFO. The reflected light from your forehead is blinding us.
Apple beat them to it (Score:5, Insightful)
The thought that Microsoft can compete with "better" DRM is laughable. Show me a user that will switch to another DRM system, because, you know - it's better at limitting your freedom better, so you should switch to it, you filthy thief, right?
My thoughts for Ballmer: good luck in alienating your potential customers!
Ha (Score:5, Interesting)
My roommate is a die-hard Microsoft fan. I don't just mean he uses Windows over Linux, either. I mean he will get compromised because of a failed update, have to reformat and reinstall, and he *still* favors MS. Why? Because of usability. Linux does not cater towards him and it certainly doesn't offer the gameplay. Mozilla/Firefox, despite what I try to tell him about security, is laughable. After all, why should he use a browser that takes 4 seconds to load a 2 second page?
Now, despite all of that, he uses iTunes. Why? Because where other "free software" fails, Apple does not. They provide a method for him to get what he needs when he needs it. And not only that, but he pays money hand over fist for services/music through iTunes.
So my question to Ballmer would have to be: If you've lost even your fanbois to Apple, who also has DRM, how exactly do you intend to actually gain a foothold in this market?
On a perfectly safe side note, the percentage of my "stolen" music collection used to be 100% MP3, now it's 80% MP3. Any MS representative want to take a guess as to what the other format is for my stolen music?
The biggest threat to MS (Score:5, Insightful)
Ballmer's appointment marked a switch from customer focus and innovation (all the GNU type people should go off and hate me quietly in a corner at this point) to concept focus and buzzwords. It's amazing to think that there was a time (early-mid 90's) when if I wanted a vendor who'd actually listen and do stuff, I wanted MS. Now, they literally can't make a single statement without chanting a mantra -- 'developers! xml! digital nervous system! drm!' and getting actual action from them is like blood from a stone. Actual development units remain largely unchanged -- but they simply aren't running the show now.
It's a tragedy of classic proportions, with Microsoft as the protagonist and Ballmer as the hubris that drives him to his fatal excesses -- and maybe IBM/Linux as the nemesis waiting around the corner.
I am _so_ not looking forward to everything being run by IBM again
hahahah (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess its a good thing that Windows users are responsible and would never do something like steal music and put it on an iPod... even though Windows makes up around 90% of the installed user base.
This makes no sense. (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I'm tired... (Score:5, Interesting)
Dang, what makes them believe that they are entitled to millions and care-free lives by making a couple of template "songs" about fucks and drugs?
Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
But that logic doesn't follow, because iPod's "paid" format ("Protected AAC") contains DRM (though in Apple's implementation is probably more forgiving and transparent than some alternatives). The "stolen" format he must be referring to is, therefore, MP3, a format that is also supported by all portable music players that support Windows Media!
Since Apple's music store - which only works with iPod - has by far the largest market share of all online music stores, there is actually more legitimately purchased downloaded music (to say nothing of legally purchased CDs that have then been ripped) in use on iPods than on players that support Windows Media. If there are "stolen" MP3s in use on iPod, then there are stolen MP3s in use on ANY player that supports MP3 in the same proportions. And even if we concede that there might be physically more stolen music on iPods, in numbers of songs, it's only because iPods so ridiculously vastly outnumber any competitive player...not because iPods somehow magically enable more easy theft, when it's MP3 - not the iPod's "scary different non-Windows Media format", which IS DRM'ed - that constitutes the "theft", which is possible on ANY other player! [1]
So, to sum up: nuthin' but FUD.
[1] Except perhaps Sony's.
Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Informative)
Which means that corporate America (ex. the music industry) should start helping MS gain more market share in that market.
Parent
Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Interesting)
it has to do with the fact that the RIAA wants DRM, and the user doesn't. so Ballmer's looking after the corporate interests ahead of the user interests.
What's funny is that he doesn't realise that new entertainment formats are mostly demand driven. People don't like div-x (the old one, where you had to "connect" to get movies), people don't use it. Same with DVD-A and SACD. Invariably, formats with draconian restrictions on them don't work. And although he wants to label people thieves, there's a very good reason why the iPod is popular, and MS's DRM isn't. The irony is Ballmer himself points it out in the article - "My 12-year-old at home doesn't want to hear that he can't put all the music that he wants in all of the places that he would like it". This isn't about stealing, it's about fair use. 12 year olds just want to do whatever they want to do with their music - like the rest of us. If stolen, free music is the only way we can get there, then so be it. Why pay for restrictions, when freedom is quite literally free?
It makes me laugh, the 12-y-o son of the man running the most powerful IT company in the world gets it, but Ballmer himself doesn't.
Which oddly enough is a theme repeated in the second article - his vision for the digital home - which involves "converged devices that integrate video, audio and computer technology". He's pretty much ripped off Steve Jobs' digital hub strategy [macworld.com] from two years ago... and then he goes on to say: "There is no way that you can get there with Apple."
Sorry Steve, the only organisation you can be guaranteed to not get there with is Microsoft. It makes poor copies of good products, labels consumers who want freedom "thieves", and calls out organisations who innovate as not being good enough.
-- james
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Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Informative)
2) Any new computer purchased from Gateway
3) Any new computer purchased from HP
4) Any new computer purchased from Compaq
5) Any new computer purchased from the company I work for
6) Any new computer purchased from GlobalComputer/TigerDirect under the "SysteMax" name
I really could go on and on. You sir, are in idot in the worst way; Or a troll. One of the two.
(Now, the above isn't to say that the users of said brand new computers won't 'borrow' some software from friends/family, but makes it a far cry less than "%100 stolded" as you had suggested. Rare indeed.)
Parent
Re:Ballmer and FUD? Who would have thought?! (Score:5, Funny)
A single red cent, no. Many thousands of red cents, yes.
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Re:Jobs Says Windows users are Dorks (Score:5, Insightful)
And unlike Ballmer in everything he's said in those two articles, Jobs would be damned right.
-- james
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Re:Probably true (Score:5, Insightful)
And what does this prove? I could level the exact same claim at Windows users - most home copies of Windows are pirated (unless OEM) - and anyway, how does the music get onto the iPod?
Hmm, maybe via a computer. And Windows users are using the iPods too!
What MS embraces is less important than what consumers embrace, and they have a habit of not embracing restrictive formats. Like DIV-X (the old version, where you had to connect to get permission to play your movie); and DVD-A / SACD.
Jobs has said that he will open up AAC playback if the iPod market share drops below #1. Similarly, he will consider putting WMA playback on the iPod if the iTMS falls below #1.
But right now, despite the absolute lack of competition, the cheaper songs/players elsewhere - the iPod is #1, and so is the iTMS. Every time a consumer chooses either, they create a barrier for themselves to using another service. Who wants to change all their music formats, etc over?
Yeah, or Microsoft procrastinating in the OS market. Your analogy is flawed. Apple have created this market with one product - the product has defined the market. People don't want a music player, they want an iPod. And which music store is the only one to work with an iPod when they want to try legal downloaded music?
You guessed it.
Your point being? I think Ballmer's way off, and it is reflected by Microsoft's market share in this market. Consumers don't want MS DRM, and Apple has a better product all round.
-- james
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