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Next iChat version to include Jabber support
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Sep 14, 2004 08:06 AM
from the behind-the-firewall dept.
from the behind-the-firewall dept.
SeaFox writes "A couple of stories about new features in the next version of Mac OS X have revealed that the new iChat 3.0 will include support for Jabber. With businesses able to host their own messaging servers behind the firewall and use it with Apple's included IM client, will this effect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?"
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What we really need (Score:3, Insightful)
Is there an IM client that supports ICQ functions like server hosted friends lists? Preferrably one that is available under linux and windows.
Re:What we really need (Score:5, Informative)
http://gaim.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
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Re:What we really need (Score:5, Informative)
While GAIM might have a very good coverage, as far as IM networks are concerned, I can't say that I enjoy running it in the situations when I have to -- e.g. when I am on my BSD box.
When it comes to MacOS X, there are several worthy contenders: Fire [sf.net], Adium [adiumx.com] to name a few. All of them are Cocoa apps and you do not need to run X11 to use them.
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Re:What we really need (Score:5, Informative)
- it's cross-plattform (Windows, OSX, Linux)
- it supports server hosted friends list
- it starts up quickly
- it supports a lot of different protocols
- it's free as in speech
I, for one, run ICQ, Jabber and MSN with gaim, and had no problems with it so far.
Parent
If you're really geeky... (Score:5, Informative)
- Cross Platform
- It supports server hosted friends list
- Starts up quickly
- Supports AIM, MSN, ICQ, YIM, Jabber, RSS, Gadu-Gadu, IRC, and LiveJournal
- It's free as in speech (GNU)
AND
It can be put into a screen [mediacollege.com] on a server, you can detach, then simply ssh into the server from a different location and reconnect to your screen as though you never left. I do this all the time.
FYI, if this interests you, contact me for a shell account.
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Re:What we really need (Score:3, Informative)
ATTN ALL UTILITY SOFTWARE AUTHORS: Microsoft/Apple/X.org is much, much better than you are at writing fast, responsiv
Re:What we really need (Score:4, Insightful)
I personally would like apple not to allow transports at this stage. This would give Jabber the injection in need for further development.
Given that the jabber 2.0 author is out of the picture until further notice and may not come back and v1.4.3 is lacking for many people (though an awesome product). Perhaps apple can pickup the check for a developer or two and bring jabber2.0 into production.
Transports are politically charged will come quickly if the server side stuff is more robust.
The two JEP's for avatars are also been declined. I wonder what iChat3 uses. I cannot wait.
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Makes sense... (Score:5, Informative)
This is good news (Score:5, Interesting)
For example, instead of having some random, and unknown, jabber file proxy to enter in, why can't the server offer hints? Someone sets up a jabber server, they are likely to understand how to setup the file proxy needed for it, so have that in the config file as a hint of which proxy to use.
Don't get me wrong, I love jabber, it's just not ready for "prime time", as it were. Although it's more than adequate for local lans where you dont want chat data going out over the internet.
ah yes well (Score:3, Informative)
more importantly, will it a ffect Jabber's overall share of the IM market?
Re:ah yes well (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:ah yes well (Score:3, Insightful)
Jabber server as well (Score:5, Informative)
For those unaware, iChat has always used the Jabber protocols for its local (Rendezvous-initiated) messaging. This just dusts off and reveals full-fledged support for Jabber.
Why Jabber [jabber.org]? Because Jabber is a completely open IM standard. The IETF has accepted the core Jabber protocols and has standardized them as XMPP [xmpp.org], an open IM protocol [jabber.org].
Connectivity to other IM services, too (Score:5, Informative)
While an open IM application can be useful in a defined group or organization for messaging, obviously, a standalone IM application is of limited utility on its own if you're already communicating with people on other IM networks.
This is why Jabber supports "transports" [jabber.org], server components that allow seamless connectivity with AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN, SMS services, and even IRC..
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Re:Jabber server as well (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Jabber server as well (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Jabber server as well (Score:4, Informative)
Interopability. Future-proofing. Apple's contributions to the standard. Are you saying companies shouldn't be applauded for using standards? I'll applaud every time a company chooses an open standard over a proprietary model.
As far as I can tell, they've given back every time they've taken. That's more than I can say for myself.
So the apps are closed? OK, they're not totally 'Free.' Granted. But the ical format is open. You can write a better iCal and not have to do a damn thing to get the data in. Webcore can be used by open-source developers as well as proprietary developers. It's based on khtml (from KDE). They've given back. WebCore is Open [wms-network.de] (LGPL).
iTunes protocol? Do you mean DAAP [sourceforge.net]? Yes the app is closed but the tools are there to re-implement as you see fit. Even the iTunes Library is accessible as XML.
So go ahead write your own drivers [apple.com].
Did you miss what this post was about?
Parent
jabber (Score:5, Informative)
Yet another reason I love Apple... (Score:5, Insightful)
The question would be... (Score:5, Interesting)
I would say it might have an effect on Jabber. Eventhough Apple has a small marketshare, it has a higher percent of that marketshare that are online.
But.... Mac to PC? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
This was annouced at WWDC 2004... (Score:5, Informative)
Additionally:
So, yes, we've known since WWDC that iChat will be able to speak to standard Jabber servers, mostly because Apple will be shipping a Jabber server with Tiger Server.
There's a lot of cool stuff in Tiger Server, and that page is with checking out.
GPG support (Score:5, Insightful)
Well... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Interesting)
SSL gives you client-server privacy, but the owner of the server can still see what is going on, and if the other party isn't using SSL then the messages will be going to them over plain text anyway. However, with GPG, then you have security between clients. The server owner can't read your messages.
So SSL is good, but only half way there, adding GPG support is necessary for more complete privacy.
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mmm, Open goodness (Score:5, Informative)
Nice thing about Jabber is that it's decentralized and has so much room to be elaborated into some nifty applications that go way beyond text messaging. I was annoyed at Apple for nailing iChat so firmly to AIM, and now it looks like they're fulfilling some of the promise behind having a default chat client that isn't tied to an Apple network.
Jabber market share (Score:3, Interesting)
What I'd like to see, though, is a Google branded instant messenger service -- based on Jabber. This would really kick IM up to the next level, and maybe even pressure the other big three to make their systems interoperable, like Internet technologies are supposed to be.
Maybe Apple can make the damn thing configurable. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds easy right? Obviously you've never used Jabber!
The obvious place for support would appear to be http://jabber.org. But there's no support on that site. Well, maybe jabber.com! Nope, that's a corporate commercial Jabber site. Hmmm, maybe jabberstudio.org! After all, that's where the server software is hosted! Nope, not there either. They have a mailing list where 4-6 different people have asked for help on the same problem . . . and in true Open Source fashion, no one helped them, other than to say, "Well, I've setup a nifty Perl hack to fix that problem . . you just need these 4 libraries and then write your own XML commands.".
Hopefully Apple will put their spit and polish on it and make it usable. In it's current state, Jabber's a pain in the ass to try and configure with absolutely zero documentation to help.
I second that motion (Score:3, Insightful)
too nasty to use in a work situation. For work we don't need kitchen sink software just simple messaging. The whole jabber protocol is cool but if tools for managing it in a sane way do not exist it just becomes a nightmare.
nice clients (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Maybe Apple can make the damn thing configurabl (Score:5, Informative)
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Planned for some time? (Score:3, Interesting)
Nonetheless, this sounds great, and is probably going to give Jabber a significant usage boost. It's sure nice to see Apple support more open technologies.
Helix (Score:4, Interesting)
Mac + Business = share? (Score:4, Insightful)
You assume that ther are enough "mac" computers in business to affect market share? Some companies are hip enough to use Macs in business. Many many many are not.
If MozillaFireFoxBird had built-in support [mozillazine.org] for Jabber instead of having to download a special client, Jabber might find its way into more homes and businesses. Like the US economy, Mozilla is starting to gain some traction [slashdot.org].
Re:Mac + Business = share? (Score:3, Insightful)
No Effect (Score:4, Informative)
Since Jabber already has market share, this move by Apple will not Effect (verb: to create) a share for Jabber. However, including Jabber in iChat may Affect (verb: to influence) the market that already exists.
OTOH - The Effect (noun: influence) of the ignorant substitution of inappropriate words Affects (verb: to influence) your ability to write clearly. Learn to the difference between english vowels, or you'll be condemned to confuse a cat with a cot (or Al with an eel)
Learn to the difference between english vowels???? (Score:4, Funny)
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Encrypted memory! (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow, that's paranoia!
Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:3, Informative)
Apple has a way of moving technologies from the geek realm to the "average joe" realm in a very short period of time. I would also suggest that you applaud Apple for using yet another standard vs. creating their own in hous
Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:5, Insightful)
significance to or impact on the market is not directly related to market share. apple has had a significantly disproportionate impact on the industry relative to its market share because, unlike most PC hardware or software companies, they represent consistent innovation. their hardware drives other companies to keep up (talking total system design here, not CPUs, although that might still be true). look at the push for adoption of firewire and USB. or the slow decline of the floppy. or A/V IM.
apple applied the same history of innovation they've had in the computer world to digital music - innovation wasn't new to them. the reason they've been so much more successful there than in the computer market (using the limited definition of success == market share) is because there was a dramatically smaller installed base; the innovation was more apparent, and the cost to conversion wasn't really an issue, as it is when trying to convince someone to switch from an existing product/service.
now compare this with the situation with IM. i used to work a lot with high school and jr. high kids in the states, and nearly all of them have AIM (not just IM - AIM). it's a crucial social tool, and the fact that all the AIM stuff is interoperable is critical for them. apple's not going to have any more success in this market (using the same limited definition of success) than they have in the computer market, unless they can work out a cross-connecting deal with AOL (which isn't out of the question; note that the @mac.com addresses are the only reserved domain handed out in the AIM address space). but in business... that's a whole other story. we use AIM at work pretty heavily, especially between our US and GB offices. but when i mention this to friends and colleagues in other companies, it's nearly unheard of. many companies have explicit restrictions against using it... and often for exactly the reasons that a in-house server would resolve.
i'm not making any predictions for what impact this will have, but do keep in mind that 1) impact != market share, 2) the world != teenagers, 3) network effects are more powerful than the effect of an isolated change, and 4) just because something doesn't solve a problem you have doesn't mean it doesn't solve a problem somebody else (like businesses) has.
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Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Walking around on campus you see a LOT more apple laptops than you used to. The recent public awareness of how grossly insecure Windows is has helped that a lot since I know a quite a few people who went to Apple to escape the monthly system rebuild that was required when they got infected with spyware, viruses, or Trojans. While Windows certainly CAN be secure it is much easier for a non computer geek to keep an OS X box secure. I would say that Apple is poised to possibly invade the corporate world from the ground up as more graduates have expertise in OS X.
This is just my observations though, no marketing data to back that up.
Finkployd
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Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yea, like that USB thing, Firewire, ditching the floppy, colorful computers, photo management software, digital music players, WiFi, bluetooth, video editing, dvd burning. Apple made the first jump on all of those and look where it got them! Nothing! Ha! Nobody will ever try to follow Apple's lead! Bunch of losers!
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Re:Are you kidding me ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey, whippersnapper, you forgot something... or you're just too young to remember what a huge jolt true cheap WYSIWYG publishing was. THAT was apple's killer app... took MS years... no, decades to catch up on that one.
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Jabber's strengths (Score:3, Insightful)
What's being touted here is that Jabber can function as groupware for intranet messaging, and that it is a viable option for IM in the enterprise. But even for Internet messaging, it has a very attractive feature: encryption.
Trillian Pro offers 128-bit Blowfish encryption for ICQ, but that requires both parties to use Trillian Pro (a non-free Wind
Re:Affect, not effect (Score:3, Funny)
However, his simplistic view of "one is a noun, the other a verb" effects no useful change in people's English understanding, as it prevents them from understanding the way an effective use of the verb "to effect" can affect an English sentence.
You dig?
Except that... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Business users? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Old news... (Score:5, Informative)
iChat Server. Host your own private and secure inside-the-firewall iChat server that uses your own namespace and works with both Tiger's iChat AV and popular Jabber clients available on Windows, Linux and PDAs.
and:
Your Very Own iChat and Blog Servers
You can now host your own iChat server. Instant Messaging serves as a vital means of communication for organizations of all sizes, so it's useful to deploy and run your own private and secure IM server. Based on the open source Jabber project, the new iChat server in Tiger Server lets your company protect its internal communications by defining its own namespace, and use SSL/TLS encryption to ensure privacy. The iChat server works with both the iChat client in Mac OS X Tiger and popular open source clients available for Windows, Linux and even PDAs.
This isn't a secret, and you don't have to be an "Apple Insider" to know about it, you just have to (carefully) read the language on their own website.
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