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iPod Mini Design Flaw?
Posted by
michael
on Sun Apr 11, 2004 05:40 PM
from the caveat-lector dept.
from the caveat-lector dept.
terradyn writes "Over at iPodlounge they've discovered that the iPod mini's have a major issue with their headphone jacks. It looks like the jacks connection to the main system board is extremely poorly engineered and so normal use will wear it out and cause lots of static after around 35-40 days... If any pressure on your iPod Mini results in crackling and static, you should return your iPod immediately to an Apple store for a free replacement. They're also theorizing over in the forums that the iPod Mini shortage may be a cover for this problem..." Update: 04/12 01:08 GMT by T : billybob writes "Someone in the forum thread originally linked to has posted pictures of the iPod taken apart, demonstrating the problem."
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Finally! An excuse... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Finally! An excuse... (Score:4, Funny)
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That's what you get... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That's what you get... (Score:5, Informative)
If you want a 15 GB iPod in color, check these guys out. [colorwarepc.com] They'll even paint your existing iPod if you're willing to send it in.
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Re:That's what you get... (Score:5, Informative)
Way cheaper than a custom paint job...and less troublesome if you drop it!
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Re:That's what you get... (Score:5, Informative)
Also cool: ipodmods.com [ipodmods.com]
They'll replace your LEDs or change the LCD backlight color...
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There is another flaw (Score:5, Informative)
Re:There is another flaw (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:There is another flaw (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:There is another flaw (Score:4, Funny)
Da-dum-crash!!!!
Seriously folks, I'll be here all week.
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plug the analog hole (Score:5, Funny)
Re:plug the analog hole (Score:5, Funny)
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oh the conspiracies.... (Score:5, Funny)
not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Informative)
The good news is that this is usually easily fixable, opening the device and re-heating the joints that connect the socket to the board, maybe also applying a little epoxy to reinforce the socket, as a little movement can agrivate the problem.
The bad news is that if the soldering is not up to spec, the entire device could suffer from long term unreliability, especially in a device that will see constant movement and vibration, such as this..
Possibly they have used a surface mount socket with only the solder connections to retain it, and it really needed some form of positive retention because the case is not strong enough to provide the rest - this would make it a little harder to fix by resoldering, but the theory is the same.
After all, it's not really a DIFFICULT problem in engineering, if this problem is happening a lot then someone has REALLY dropped the ball here.
Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand why manufacturers continue to attach jacks to the main boards with just solder. There is no way around it, they will crack. It could be after a year or so, or as these owners have found, just over a month. If they'd just put a bit of epoxy under the jack, so that is what actually holds it to the board, and the solder is there to conduct the electricity, like it was designed to, the problem would be solved.
As a matter of fact, that is how I usually solve the problem on my devices that break. When I'd just touch up the solder joints the problem would always return. But after I took to totally desolding the jack, adding a little epoxy under it, then resolding, they don't break again.
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Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Informative)
Second, you can't just introduce extra assembly stages in a mass-produced design without incurring significant cost. So that's why jacks, switches, and so on are usually soldered to a circuit board.
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Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Plus I burn myself easy and my brother says he can't cover for me anymore, he's got his own life and doesn't have time to wire up all my broken stuff for me anymore.
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Re:Yeah, Archos Jukebox 6000 had it too. (Score:5, Funny)
BLASPHEMY!!
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Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:not an uncommon problem.. (Score:5, Informative)
People sell stuff that they no longer need because of upgrades. I sold a Rio300SE because I bought a newer MP3 Player thatt had more capacity and connected via USB instead of Parallel. It was still a great device though.
Other people sell stuff because they need some money and ebay is better than a pawn shop. I picked up a Sharp Zaurus sl5500, cheap. I love it. My unit is a little scratched up, so the previous owner must have used it quite a bit. Then again one man's trash...
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The Cause (Score:5, Informative)
Repeated stress on the case, then, puts stress on the headphone jack and eventually it may lead to the audio problems expressed at iPodlounge.
This should be an extremely easy fix for future IPM revisions, and I'd imagine Apple will be taking care of their customers.
As a sidenote, I had an iBook's logic board fail out of warranty due to a manufacturing flaw and I called Apple on I heard that Apple the flaw- they sent me a box, postage prepaid, in which to send my iBook back, repaired it, and sent it back to me. No money out of my pocket. Very cool.
Re:The Cause (Score:5, Interesting)
I had an Airport base station die on me last summer because of a design flaw in the power supply. The thing was almost three years out of warranty. Called Apple, and they Airborne Expressed me a refurb'd replacement the next day, and told me to use the box it came in to ship the old one back to them, at no cost to me. Way cool.
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Apple is not unique in this problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
Everything from an original Sony Walkman, to discount store AM/FM radios, to expensive Sony and Phillips CD players have suffered from this annoying loose headphone jack disease. Some may suffer earlier than others, but none have survived without a little home soldering work more than a year.
Re:Apple is not unique in this problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
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iPod engineering (Score:5, Interesting)
The battery-life meters on the 3rd-generation iPods are nothing short of random, and now this. For what they're charging for these things, why doesn't the battery indicator work as well as the one on my two-year-old $49 cell phone?
Re:iPod engineering (Score:5, Informative)
For 3G iPods with the latest firmware, this will cause the default battery meter to be replaced with a digital voltage display, in 1/10th volts. So a fully charged iPod might display 500 (5.00V), while a nearly dead iPod will be under 200 (2.00V).
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Thank God! (Score:5, Funny)
That's why it's called the bleeding edge... (Score:5, Informative)
Nearly every Apple product that I've seen come out in the past five years, I've known someone that has to return a Revision A product because Apple just dropped the ball on one thing or another. Don't get me wrong, their products are quite amazing and I'm envious of all my Apple fanatic friends that have everything, but if you're going to be on the bleeding edge and pre-order things before Apple's even done making them, of course you're going to see something wrong with the first batch. If you think otherwise, then why don't you try to release an idiot-proof product to people that want their mp3s automagically synced from their work desktop to their iPod to their car to their laptop to their servers to their friend's computers in the UK. ("it's on my
...but I ramble...
Re:That's why it's called the bleeding edge... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:That's why it's called the bleeding edge... (Score:5, Funny)
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Mini shortage and Apple Awareness (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, how does an issue like this get addressed for international customers? I'm guessing Apple has the policy of free shipping, etc only for US-based customers.
Usage problem with 1st Gen iPod (Score:5, Interesting)
Mechanical Problems (Score:5, Interesting)
Dry joints can be repaired "while-U-wait" in any suitably-equipped workshop -- or at home, but it's fiddly and I'd be reluctant to open up such an expensive precision instrument {and anyway, 30-40 days is well within the 12 month statutory guarantee period}.
I'm guessing that the PCB would be double-side surface mounted, reflow soldering both sides. The long-term solution is going to require a PCB redesign and new solder paste masks -- either too much solder or too little solder can cause poor joints; and maybe they should spec a socket with a plastic lug on the underside passing through a hole in the board, which would give it a bit more stability. Using a traditional socket with through-hole pins would be even more secure, especially if dummy pins were added for mechanical support, but would require an additional operation to hand-solder it in place.
It's understandable that Apple is using delaying tactics, as it will probably require a long round of accelerated testing to determine exactly what the problem is and how best to fix it. {I used to work in the R&D department of a company which designed and made electronic control modules, by the way}.
Similar experience (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing holding the surface mount jack onto the board was the solder connections, and it seemed to me that the solder was unusually soft. You could push it around pretty easily with a pair of sharp tweezers.
I can't say that I was impressed with the design and execution.
Warranty? (Score:4, Informative)
Hah! Apple rips off Sony! (Score:5, Funny)
Sony has for many years been the leader in crappy minijack technology. Just ask anyone who has used a microphone with one of their minidisc recorders!
Re:Testing (Score:5, Insightful)
You can do a lot of testing and still overlook a problem if you're not looking for it.
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Re:Testing (Score:4, Funny)
i was a beta tester, and while I told her it was a mini ipod in my pocket it really wasn't...
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Re:Do the... (Score:4, Funny)
No problems yet. I love it.
Best $500 that I should have put towards tuition I ever spent.
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Re:Do the... (Score:5, Funny)
Better then the $500 I spent last month on booze?
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Re:Do the... (Score:5, Interesting)
I tried to repair it through Apple. Apple Europe refused to repair it for free, saying that the part does not break for itself even though my iPod was still covered by warranty.
I was bitten by faulty iBook (went to service three times and every time Apple refused to cover the cost by warranty. I don't even feel like contacting them for that iBook motherboard paying back program), too, and wonder why I still have faith in Apple, especially the European branch. (Apple Japan was prompt and helpful repairing my iBook when I was visiting Japan.) They have a huge issue in their QC. They should stop manufacturing their goods in Taiwan.
People like to liken Apple products to BMW or Mercedes, but maybe it's more like Ferrari. Expensive, looking cool, but requires a lot of maintenance...
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Yeah. (Score:5, Funny)
That and better reflexes. You're like 10th.
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Re:Summary (Score:5, Funny)
Don't people even read the title of the article anymore? It's a mini design flaw.
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Re:Summary (Score:4, Informative)
The small part with the headphone jack attaches via screws to the aluminium case, but does not screw to the main board. Because of this any pressure on the case, dock connector, or simply plugging in and out headphones, creates tension between the small part and the main board. Since only the black connector sits between these two parts, it quickly wears out.
With regular use, contacts get loose and slightest pressure on iPod creates static sounds
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Re:Summary (Score:5, Funny)
Will Microsoft replace my copy of Windows with one that works well? For Free?
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Re:In my opinion (Score:4, Insightful)
I tell you why. It's because you, sir, are a dumbass. Let me count the ways:
1. It's a 4GB miniature hard drive. Not a CF.
2. It also contains a microprocessor and related hardware which: talk to the hard drive over the ATA bus; parse the filesystem; keep track of the songs in a (relatively) intelligent and rational way; feed data to an MP3 decoder chip; manage to keep said MP3 decoder chip fed properly, i.e. not too much and not too little, but just enough, Goldilocks; interpret your input and figure out what it is that you want it to do; and talk to the aforementioned LCD screen. Not just "making the scroll wheel work", thank you.
3. The actual cost of the silicon I've described - not counting the hard drive - is relatively insignificant, it's true. Especially in the large quantities Apple are purchasing. So? Design, assembly, testing, etc. are not insignificant costs for such a device. I've been there; I know. At NO point have we discussed the software design, the UI design, or the industrial/mechanical design. These are also significant.
I challenge you - you, personally! - to develop a design of similar quality and capabilities for even as little as twice the cost, at twice the size and half the battery life. It's a pretty safe bet that you can't. When you figure in the cost of the hard drive (it's a Toshiba; look it up), there's no way you can come close. The only thing you've said that's even remotely correct is that it's barely worth $250. That's kinda cool, really. If it was worth more, it would cost more. I personally like it when stuff is worth what I paid for it.
Frankly, until you know something about designing a consumer device this complicated, your opinion about how good a job Apple did isn't worth squat. But who knows? Give Apple a call. Tell them you read on some website how bad a job they did, and tell 'em you can do it better. Be sure to have a tape recorder ready to preserve the sound of hysterical laughter.
Sheesh.
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Re:In my opinion (Score:4, Informative)
I suppose it's possible that grandparent poster knew that it was a hard drive. My apologies if he did.
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Re:now it makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
I opened up my guitar and pushed the prong that makes the connection at the end of the cable plug inward toward the centre in order to "tighten" the connection when it was plugged in. That fixed it.
I was back to using it as a pre-emptive birth control device in no time.
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Re:now it makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
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