Steve Jobs' Grand Vision 522
ejungle writes "The Toronto Star has an excellent article on Steve Jobs and his increasingly interesting role as head of both Apple Computer and Pixar Animation Studios. The article goes into the market pressures surrounding both companies, and goes a long way to explain their recent moves."
Call me sick to death of the media... (Score:5, Funny)
"The late Walt Disney built his empire with a mouse. The same can be said about Steve Jobs"
Dial a cliche...
Oldie but goodie... (Score:5, Funny)
Judge: Let me get this straight Mickey, you want a divorce from Minnie because you say she is crazy.
Mickey: No, I never said Minnie was crazy, I said she was fucking Goofy!
Re:Call me sick to death of the media... (Score:5, Funny)
The difference being Mickey traditionally had two buttons on him... [ludus.info]
Re:Call me sick to death of the media... (Score:5, Funny)
How dare that reporter call Steve Wozniak a mouse!!!
Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
And then it gets modded up??? Puh-Leeese
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:4, Insightful)
i think we have seen that with the Xserve G5s and such. The man is unquestionably smart.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Informative)
Now wait just a gosh-darn second here! Who you callin "overheating"??
PowerPC chips use MUCH less power than Xeon [osnews.com]. Tons less. In fact, that's what the PPC architecture was designed for was embedded applications.
Overheating G4's????
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Zilla, NeXT renderman and new apple Pixlet codec (Score:5, Insightful)
Second back when I had my NeXT it came with Renderman which was I beleive the Pixar developed shader for 3-d rendering. It was very slick and blow-your-socks off fast on a 486 computer.
NeXT also came with Zilla, the predecessor to all grid computing that let the Zilla project steal unused cycles on all volunteer NeXT computers in the world. Among its feats was part of the four-color-map theorem proof (an exhaustive proof), and the early CGI movie rendering.
So the convergence of Jobs computer platforms and Pixar in not a new thing. The fact that its running on Intel hardware is also no suprise since NeXTstep and Renderman ran on INTEL hardware.
but it seems that with pixlet, Xgrid, Xraid, and the new rackmount G5 all the peices are in place to go back to an all apple platform if he chooses too. But circumstantially they probably will wait till their next movie is done. But presumably with Pixlet, and finalcut pro they can do all the desktop work on apples now.
Where is the Pixlet codec??? (Score:4, Interesting)
Pixlet, the first studio-grade codec for filmmakers that was developed in conjunction with Pixar to deliver breathtaking HD-quality video on the Mac that is free from visual artifacts.
"High-end Video Codec
Pixlet is the first studio-grade codec for filmmakers. Pixlet provides 20-25:1 compression, allowing a 75MB/sec series of frames to be delivered in a 3MB/sec movie, similar to DV data rates. Or a series of frames that are over 6GB in size can be contained within a 250MB movie. Pixlet lets high-end digital film frames play in real time with any 1GHz G4 or faster Panther Mac, without investing in costly, proprietary hardware."
You may recall Jobs demoed it in october. He showed in particular how you could use the scrubber to move through the film in faster than real time to any place and the codec kept up with the presentation. And the quality was near DVD. very impressive.
So where is it? it vanished off Apple's main web pages though you can find it in their archives. It vanished about the same time as "home-on-ipod" vanished. I assume panther, ilife and ipod ate its brain share. Perhaps its going to be held back as a premium product to differentiate final cut pro. any guesses
Re:Where is the Pixlet codec??? (Score:4, Informative)
I bet it is far better than DVD, otherwise it wouldn't be a studio-grade codec for filmmakers. DVD quality is inacceptable for professional editing work.
Re:Where is the Pixlet codec??? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Where is the Pixlet codec??? (Score:4, Informative)
Unless I'm going crazy, it's on:-
http://www.apple.com/macosx/ [apple.com]
good business sense (Score:5, Insightful)
And why should he have to explain it? The fact that most of that software comes straight from the NeXT days should be "explanation" enough on the techie front. But go ahead and raise your fist for Linux dominance
It's only very recent that Apple's making serious servers and raid solutions, and while they're very cool and cost effective, an established business will wait just a bit longer and see where it goes before switching the most processor-intensive part of their work to G5's.
OTOH, when there's a proven advantage and a clear cut in cost, you'll see them switch in no time, especially now that Linux and Windows Server have been certified to run on the Xservers.
I'd never expect a serious CEO to have to think about that in other terms than cost-reduction, productivity and quality.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Informative)
Plus options.
And a jet.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Interesting)
https://renderman.pixar.com/products/techspecs/
AFAIK, many artists do their modeling using Maya then offloading the rendering to the server, and since Maya is available on the Mac also, it should be possible to do the whole production on a Mac as it is.
-B
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Pixar modeling/rendering software ran on MacOS X, then there'd be an army of Joe Sixpacks out there competing with Pixar, with a few thousand dollars worth of computers.
I read statements like this with a bit of bemusement. Here's a clue to all you movie makers of the future: it isn't about which software have, or which computer you are running. Movie making is hard because most people don't tell very interesting stories.Let's look at it this way: Steve Jobs runs both Apple and Pixar Animation Studios. One could imagine that if a move to MacOS X allowed such a dramatic reduction in costs for movie development that perhaps Pixar would go ahead and take advantage of it themselves. Or perhaps you think Pixar works hard to spend millions of dollars on salaries and equipment when it cut expenses and expand profits by the simple process of porting software?
Get real.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
I read statements like this with a bit of bemusement. Here's a clue to all you movie makers of the future: it isn't about which software have, or which computer you are running. Movie making is hard because most people don't tell very interesting stories.
As one who had a Mac and a LaserWriter but failed to takeover the world of publishing, then a Mac and Dreamweaver but failed to become a DotAnything, and now a Mac and iMovie and am totally non-threatening tp Spielberg, I concur. Anyone can buy equipment but it takes a talented person to use it. Michelangelo (artist, not turtle) didn't even have a Wacom tablet!
Talent is innate, but it ain't in me.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Hold your horses there cowboy bebop. It would take a lot more than Pixar's software to turn Joe Sixpack into the next "Finding Nemo" creator.
All the software in the world cant get around the CPU cycle requirements for this type of rendering. Perhaps if Joe Sixpack had a raised floor room in his basement with about 2000 Xserve G5's (Ok, so it's a big basement) then maybe the release of this software on OSX would be a threat.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Steve JObs wants to keep this business obscure enough to keep the bar raised to where Pixar offers a unique and valuable service.
yeah, sure. It's not the machines, it's not the software. It's the talented people who know what to do with the software, and know how to work around all the things that it can't do.
and the talented people who can write a good script, design good characters, and act. Without them, the people who know how to push the buttons don't have anything to do.
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pixar's Linux Render Farm (Score:5, Insightful)
anyone who would say Linux is a better Desktop system than OS X are crack heads....and this is coming from a Linux desktop user.
Only One Steve Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
It's up to the reader to decide which is which.
Re:Only One Steve Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only One Steve Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
The silly humans will never believe in one of our kind... er... um...
look at how that apple logo lights up on the PowerBook, isn't that shiny. Yes, look at the shiny.
Re:$1 dollar salary. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they aren't. His stock options allow him to purchase Apple shares for $43.56. AAPL is currently at around $20.00. Right now, Steve Jobs stock options are worth exactly nada point null. And frankly, in the foreseable future they will rather keep this value. Jobs even once offered a journalist who was estimating their worth at some millions to buy them at half the estimated price. Obviously, the journalist declined. Even if Jobs was half-joking then, he had a valid point - it will take ages for AAPL to break through the $40.00 level and actually it's not even likely for it to ever happen.
Of course, the company pay for his semi-private jet and his powerbook. But even that is not exactly his own salary - if he quits from Apple, another CEO will fly "his" gulfstream jet.
1.7 Billion (Score:5, Insightful)
What does Steve Jobs not wanting to do an interview for the San Francisco Chronicle have to do with how much money he is worth?
Re:1.7 Billion (Score:5, Funny)
Hell, me and my $1.7 hundred (U.S.), according to my most recent bank statement, would decline an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle.
It's a writer acting like a script kiddie (Score:5, Insightful)
It has been ages since I worried about this stuff (6th grade, I think). I think these are called subordinate clauses, and are supposed to clarify the rest of the sentence. Thus if he had said "Jobs, who made his money interviewing famous people, routinely declines interviews requests" or "Jobs, who is worth $1.7 billion, said he cannot afford to finance movies himself" -- either one would have been legitimate.
Now I hope I've cleared up SOMETHING, for Ifni's sake!
Re:1.7 Billion (Score:5, Insightful)
Jobs going overboard? (Score:3, Insightful)
Jobs went so far as to declare that Pixar had surpassed Disney as "the most powerful and trusted brand in animation."
seems a little fishy to me. While Pixar is amazing at what it does, it's no Disney. Nobody wants to take thier kids to Pixarland, and you don't get the Pixar channel at home, and I'd say it'll be quite a while before either of those happens. They are by no means trusted to the level of Disney in a family atmosphere.
They have a good thing going, but IMHO they are far from the top still.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:4, Interesting)
-B
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:4, Funny)
My god, the thought of a themepark run by Steve Jobs is frightening. First it'd cost you several hundred dollars to get in, everything would be stark white with accents of brushed steel and a few aqua bubbles.
There would only be 3 rides, and they'd be the really old ones "ported" from Magic Mountain, and before you entered the park, there'd be a little tutorial demonstrating how powerful and intuitive everything is.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Funny)
Then there is always the Linus Torvalds theme park, but not many people go there. Although the rides are rock solid, they are a lot less fun and harder to figure out.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Funny)
Then Darl would come by and scream at the top of his lungs that he owns the entire thing because roller coasters make him puke, just like the paint he sniffs, so they must be one and the same.
Pixarland (Score:5, Interesting)
So you've been to Epcot?
The Innovation buildings are SO EXCITING. Their "future" of computer hardware is stuff most Slashdotters already have.
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Given Steve Job's ability to create great usable interfaces, Pixarland may be the first themepark that would not require a map to find your way. It would keep the lines down to 10 minutes even on weekends. It might cost "several hundred dollars", but you would spend all the times on rides rather than waiting in line. At that price, your fast-food concessions can be buffet-style, eliminating the overhead of cashiers inside the park. The justification is that if you are eating, you are not making the lines for rides longer.
Would you pay twice the ticket price for the Magic Kingdom if the lines were half as long? You could see every attraction in fewer days so you could keep the trip shorter and save on hotel nights. And remove the boredom of standing on line for an hour for a 2-minute ride.
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Pixarland will not happen soon. Since all the past and current movie releases were for Disney, Pixar will have to wait untill it has a few hits on its own. Then buy land. Design rides to fit the land and the movies. Build the rides. Hire people to run everything. Safety tests. Usability testing. Fix anything confusing. Repeat until anybody from 5 to 95 can understand the layout. Finally we mortals are allowed to enter.
I guess they need 5 great movies (at one movie per year) before even starting. Another 5 years to design, build and test the first 10 rides. (I am assuming one adult and one child per movie.) So Pixarland opens in 2015. The grand opening will do well, and adding a few rides each year to match the latest movies would keep people going back.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Pixar doesn't have to beat any of these to be *more* successful than Disney : It merely has to have better ROI, better employee retention, more creative output, and freedom to break the Disney Oversight in all things they do publicly. This is what they suffered from.
Jobs is a smart man to break out now. The crowds will show up for 2 movies past a crap release (proof: Matrix) and Pixar has released blockbusters so far. The Point: Pixar is now a Name Brand.
No need to have foam-headed characters dance around a plaster castle giving out happy meals to sell this stuff; it's good all on its own.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, in animation, I would put at least Studio Ghibli right up there with Pixar as well.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
While Pixar is amazing at what it does, it's no Disney
Wall Street is beginning to take the same view. People have come to the conclusion that animation has to be 3D to sell, but try telling that to Fox (Simpsons, King of the Hill.) Don't forget Southpark, or all of the anime stuff, either. The key to most entertainment is the story.
Another question to ponder is what happens to Apple if Jobs if occupied doing other things? Can he really run Pixar and Apple for a long time, and not have both worse off for it? So far Apple has a bad track record when left on its own, and Wall Street doesn't see that Jobs has done much about succession. No question, Jobs is brilliant at popularizing technology. But has he built anything that will last once he's no longer involved? Pixar probably has a better chance, since it was around before Jobs was on the scene.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
My wife and I had a conversation about this a few weeks ago. Our verdict was that Pixar has a better track record than Disney has recently. I would be willing to see a Pixar movie without knowing anything else about it. I can't say the same about Disney.
Re:Jobs going overboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm. And I don't want the Disney Channel, ABC, ABC Family Channel, or ESPN on my cable bill, but for some reason I have to have them according to Comcast. And after Comcast acquires Disney, I'm sure us customers will be treated to even more dreck from the *Mouse House.* I do not trust Disney one bit. They were a big supporter of the DIVX DVD format too, remember?
Closing ranks on rebels? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Closing ranks on rebels? (Score:3, Insightful)
-B
Re:Closing ranks on rebels? (Score:4, Insightful)
This was clearly shown in the 60's and 70's when Hollywood was in severe financial trouble (after the Hollywood "Golden Age"), and what saved the industry was an injection of brand new talents (with regards to cinematography, directing, writing, and technology).
-B
Re:Jobs is a hypocrite (Score:5, Insightful)
That means what to the point a made?
As a side note, i don't watch TV either or drink "sickly sodas", they are both detrimental to the human condition, looks like Jobs is being a reponsible father, I would do the same.
Besides its not like he could do the rest of the population the sam favour is it? Big money and power comes from feeding kids crap foodstuffs and having them watch TV all day long.
Steve Jobs has vision (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Steve Jobs has vision (Score:5, Insightful)
Mahatma Gandhi was rich?
"But then again we are talking about Apple ppl here who must have more money than God in order to afford an Apple computer."
I own 4 of `em, and I certainly don't consider myself "rich" by any stretch of the imagination. I use my machines to make money on the side and I use the tools that will make me more productive. It might cost me more initially, but if I can complete a job faster, with the least amount of hassle, then the machines have paid for themselves.
Re:Steve Jobs has vision (Score:5, Insightful)
You can get an eMac (1GHz G4, 17" CRT, DVD-ROM/CD-RW), or last year's iBook (800MHz G3, 12" LCD, CD-ROM), for $799. Financing available. If God can't afford that, no wonder He has so many of His followers on TV asking for money.
Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact Disney has begun to fail more often than succeed. Pixar may produce a lesser film than any so far, but they would have to sink a long way in order to reach the currest state of Disney offerings. Or any other American company's for that matter.
You are falling for the same drivel that Hollywood believes - that it's only a "hit" business.
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Animated
2. A hit
3. Not made by Pixar
Their only non Pixar movie in the last couple fo years that was considered major and not a pixar film was that Sinbad one that tanked at the box office. Unless the future of Disney Animations is making cheesy home videos, they're going to have to do a lot of work to get anywhere near where Pixar and who ever they ally with will be.
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:5, Informative)
Spirited Away wasn't Disney either, TYVM. It was written, animated, and directed by Studio Ghibli, possibly the best animation company on the planet. Disney just took it, attached a half-hearted dub, dutifully shoved it in theaters for a few days to honor their contractual obligations, and then crossed their fingers and hoped it wouldn't overshadow their carefully-chosen "hit" movies.
Unfortunately for them, it did.
Looks like Disney hasn't had any hits in years. They've just been selling other people's. Guess all those copyright extensions they pushed for haven't helped their creative output much at all, have they?
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:5, Interesting)
But Pixar still receives a percentage of that revenue stream. That revenue could be enough to keep Pixar afloat in the lean times between hit movies.
4. To trade away the Toy Story/Nemo/Monsters franchise in order to bet that Pixar will continue to make hit movies is a bad bet. Nobody stays on top forever in this business.
A few years ago people were saying "Pixar is taking a huge risk to move away from the Toy Story franchise and make Monsters Inc." and then more recently "Pixar is taking a huge risk to move away from the Toy Story/Monsters inc. franchises and make a movie about fish."
They probably are sitting on more than a few movie scripts that are complete gold, we don't know. But I am willing to bet that Jobs knows what he is doing here and the split from Disney will be a success.
Not entirely. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Disney came out ahead on Pixar deal! (Score:3, Interesting)
My take is that Pixar wanted more than Disney was willing to part with. I have to agree with others--Pixar without Disney will do better than Disney will without Pixar. True, it's not just the animation and technology, it's writing and stuff to. But, Disney is not automatically golden--have you seen Disney's recent non-Pixar stuff? It ranges from mediocre to horrible.
Re: points 3 and 4, "you can't predict..." and "nobody stays on top forev
Jobs and the Disney/Comcast Merger (Score:5, Interesting)
Jobs buys Disney...actually a good idea. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, oh Anonymously Cowardly one, this is actually a damn good idea and one that makes complete sense. Remember when it looked like Apple or Pixar or both were going to buy Universal Music? I remember mentioning that it made more sense for Apple and Pixar to buy Universal Pictures for a guaranteed advantageous home base to release Pixar movies. I believe that Jobs can marshal enough money to beat the Comcast offer, and would be looked upon very kindly as a "white knight" versus Comcast's hostile bid.
Apple, Pixar, Disney, ABC TV (USA) and Disney Cable Networks? A match made in heaven. Do it, Steve. Do it.
Re:Jobs buys Disney...actually a good idea. (Score:5, Interesting)
Does anyone else remember this:
Apple buys Next in order to have a source for its next generation operating system. Steve Jobs gets a bunch of stock options. Some months later, when the stock isn't doing so well, he suddenly dumps them with a comment about how he doesn't think the company is ever going to come back -- coincidentally driving the stock down even more. Soon after, the CEO of Apple is out and, oh look, Steve is in.
Compare with: Disney partners with Pixar for a number of successful films. Some years later, the stock isn't doing so well and a major shareholder starts a campaign to get rid of the CEO. Suddenly, Steve Jobs ends negotiations to continue the relationship.
Think it's a coincidence that this gave the CEO a bunch of trouble at a time when he didn't need it? That it was just as annual reports and proxy cards were going to shareholders?
Think Steve would allow Pixar to be merged with Disney if he replaced Eisner? Me too.
TSG
Forgot the consumer, uh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly not. People want to see Pixar movies and that is guaranteed money. I can see Hollywood closing its rank to rebels when it comes to cash. Right.
interesting little nugget (Score:5, Interesting)
[Lucas] sold [Pixar] to Jobs for a bargain because Lucas needed cash for a divorce settlement."
is that really true?
Re:interesting little nugget (Score:5, Informative)
Alex.
Re:interesting little nugget (Score:4, Informative)
Did Eisner drop Pixar to avoid Comcast? (Score:3, Interesting)
Given the failed discussions that Disney had with Comcast, and the subsequent hostile takeover offer, dropping Pixar through being unable to reach agreement, may make a lot of sense.
If the big bad cable company trying to take you over wants content, killing value by dropping an agreement with a major content provider (Pixar) might just be the way to go.
Anyone else think Eisner would do that to fend off Comcast and keep the keys to the Kingdom to himself?
Re:Did Eisner drop Pixar to avoid Comcast? (Score:5, Interesting)
If the big bad cable company trying to take you over wants content, killing value by dropping an agreement with a major content provider (Pixar) might just be the way to go.
Anyone else think Eisner would do that to fend off Comcast and keep the keys to the Kingdom to himself?
No, if anything I think it was done by Steve to force Eisner out. Disney loses Pixar, Roy Disney is up in arms about Eisner ruining Disney ( savedisney.com ), and an election of the CEO coming up. Roy says that Eisner is killing Disney and Pixar leaves then board votes. With two films left to go, it seems early for a splitting of the ways (perhaps not as I don't know what they have planned or how long it takes to put it out). We'll see if Eisner gets the boot by shareholders and if Disney and Pixar kiss and make up afterwards.
What are Steve's plans for Apple? I think he's stickign with the killer app theory and moving into various nitches. He doesn't have to be the best computer all round. he simply has to be the best computer for graphics and video. IF apple puts out the best, that's what people will buy. An extra thousand or so really doesn't matter when it can save you ten thousand in time. Combined with the video apps that Apple has bought and is now making, this seems a the way it's going. The Xserve seems made from day one for cheap render farms. It doesn't matter what Apple's market share is because if Apple can just maintain these two markets, there's plenty of money to keep a computer company afloat.
From there, it's just a matter of picking another niche and moving into it. They've got some with the ease of use home segment using OS X as a killer app and at the same time sucking in *nix people in the laptops.
Music seems the next killer app they're moving into. They've bought and are producing apps for music production. They bought Emagic and Logic and have put out music apps from Garageband on up. Eventually they'll be the standard in music as they are in video (and already are depending on who you ask).
What will Apple do next? Who knows. Look to see what Apple buys next because the problem hasn't been that Apple didn't license out clones but that Apple stopped publishing their own apps. People will use what ever computer does the job. What computer does the job is dependant on the Killer App. From now on, I expect Apple to make both the computer and the Killer App.
Why did Pixar split with Disney? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple + Pixar = ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hardware [check]
Software [check]
Content [check]
Mindshare [check]
Market [check$]
In the great race to revolutionize previous services, CableTV, Telephone and Audio are all taking new forms. Seems to me that the Pixar acquisition after iTunes means Job's only needs a portable device with a large enough screen to make the portable, secure, wireless future happen.
Pixar will produce its own content, and those who seek to distribute their movies through that 'channel' will join in the success. Filling out the market footprint for Jobs' in 2005.
M$ may suffer from being more than we need with their next release.
If at the same time indie Musicians and Filmakers could get the gear they could offer great alternatives, but Apple and Pixar are a collossus.
Here's to the crazy ones. (Score:5, Offtopic)
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They're not fond of rules.
And they have no respect for the status quo.
You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them,
disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can't do is ignore them.
Because they change things.
They invent. They imagine. They heal.
They explore. They create. They inspire.
They push the human race forward.
Maybe they have to be crazy.
How else can you stare at an empty canvas and see a work of art?
Or sit in silence and hear a song that's never been written?
Or gaze at a red planet and see a laboratory on wheels?
We make tools for these kinds of people.
While some see them as the crazy ones,
we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think
they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
And NeXT was fucking fantastic, it amazed me that even in '99 the rest of the computing world hadn't caught up to how far along NeXTSTEP was when it came to providing a useful, coherent, sane computing environment.
Installed base is a much more useful number than market share, unless you really think real computing advancement comes from the hundreds of mid to low end machines typically deployed in corporations (hint: it doesn't). Emacs don't cost near 2k, iMacs do and they are poor sellers because of it. The G5 machines are priced well if you do a serious comparison of what you get for the money... and more importantly they are priced great since Apple sells them as fast they make them (the single 1.6 excluded).
I realize you are doing the anti-popular opinion troll for mod points but unfortunately for me I can't help but reply.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
I realize these are anecedotes, but going on what I've seen, I think Apple is slowly creeping back.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Since you asked so nice, and aren't AC
1) Apple makes systems with a tight verticle integration. The same reasoning behind AIX, RS/6000 and Shark storage holds for a G4/G5. It is designed and optimized like a console, but allows for upgrades. (The whitebox upgrades are even supported by the warranty. I can add RAM or vid myself under warranty. Can I do that with a Dell?)
2) Apple really understands the customers. It has a really good idea of what people expect from Apple Computers, and usually does a pretty good job of delivering that.
3) Apple has a three year warranty that is only the price of a low-end vid card. It is around 150, if I remember correctly.
4) Apple support is composed of some of the nicest people I have ever talked to, and I even have some friends now who work there. They are willing to patiently explain that something a user did was dumb, and explain how to fix it. Without making even a grandmother (who WASHED her mac) feel stupid. My wife even likes talking to them.
5) Apple has really top-notch driver integration. I have only installed one driver on a Mac. Ever. Dozens of hardware add-ons and accessories, and I only had to install a driver for an ancient Wacom tablet. Everything else was perfect plug and play. It just doesn't happen with Windows. REALLY doesn't happen on Linux.
6) Full media ships with the computer. No crippled OS versions. It is the whole enchilada.
7) Safe system restore. Fix the problem in about 15 minutes, without losing a single byte of your data. It rocks! I've only had to use it once, but it was amazing.
8) Well-laid out keyboards. Personal preference.
9) Fantastic engineering. Again, personal preference. I happen to like a 6 lb 1" laptop with the power and battery life of something much larger. And a DVD burner. And the ability to run 2 external screens at the same time as the internal screen. I frequently use mine in dual screen mode at work.
10) iLife. A simple suite of cheap/free apps that really cover the bases. They work together nicely, too.
11) Safari. Really nice, fully integrated mostly STANDARDS COMPLIANT browser.
12)
13) Free dev environment. Full on IDE that is actually pretty nice. Works for Java, Perl, AppleScript, and C/C++/ObjC.
14) Finder. Finder is a very smooth way to navigate a computer. It has some issues, and I will certainly bitch about them.
15) Unix based. I like this. I've been on Unix since the mid 80's, and I love it. I'm glad Apple went that way.
Now, as for what I like about Jobs? He's a really charismatic person who is willing to tell people to go fly a kite. He goes in really weird directions, does really weird things, and they even sometimes work. What I really like, though, is that Apple seems to suck without him.
There you have it. Feel free to complain or flame, but understand that I really couldn't care less. I love my Macs, and I am not a PC Gamer. I play NWN on them. I do not buy computers to be game consoles, so I couldn't care less if $game supports it. I probably wouldn't own that game for windows, if I owned it.
Of course, there is also no guarantee that my next 4 computers will be Macs like my last 4. It is highly likely, though.
-WS
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
17) Apple gets that while functional is good, functional and stylish is better.
18) Apple made a computer that I'm proud to bring with me.
Example: The other night I was at a screening of a foreign movie on some sort of esoteric VCD format that the language lab computer (running XP pro) couldn't play under RealOne, WMP9 or the other DVD software installed. Soooo, just as the professor was about to send everyone home, I offered to try it out on my ibook.
I put in the disc, "DVD Player" started up, the movie started, I plugged in the projector cable, the controller faded away subtly and seemlessly and we watched the movie. I sat back with a grin, as if it was me who did something right... As if I was the one who fixed the movie player with my Apple.
So what's my point again?
Apple is great because it makes my life easier, my computer does the work I want it to when I want it to and I'm proud when it does so.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Consumer's aren't choosing Linux, enterprises are choosing Linux for desktops. Mom and Pop aren't formatting their hard drives and installing Linux distros on their 'box' at home. If anything, Microsoft has to worry about the loss of enterprise desktop share, not Apple, who's not in enterprise.
Enterprise takes what's cheap and what works. That's why they buy thousands of identical, feature-less Dell boxes. And that's why they'll install Linux on those boxes instead of Windows XP Pro if Linux does what they need it to do. I mean seriously, why would you install XP in the enterprise? The reasons keep diminishing.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
but a lot of really bad ones.In the meantime, the Mac's marketshare fell below 2% and has been overtaken by Linux Desktop's share.
That's not Jobs' fault. That's Sculley's, and that's the dispute that caused Steve to leave Apple. Steve and Steve started Apple to make computers For the Rest of Us. Computers that people could use; not room-size boxes hidden away in an industrial building.
Sculley had a vision of using Apple's superior technology to make products with high margins and turn Apple into a billion dollar company. And he did. And he gave up marketshare for that.
Lots of people agree that the real reason of the Mac slow but sure descent into Hell is Job's elitist vision and its results, overpriced hardware, rumor cult(ure) at Apple, etc.
Lots of people are uninformed, but that doesn't make them right. Macs aren't overpriced; they're worth every penny you spend on them, the only problem is that you don't have the choice to spend less for things you don't want because Apple doesn't offer those products (like an iMac without the flat panel display and built-in Bluetooth but in an ATX case).
On the same token, Apple can't charge the same prices that Dell does in order to gain market share; they need to fund their R & D divisions. Dell makes money on volume (quanitity). People buy Macs for quality. Apple has to make higher priced units that will yeild larger profits due to the price, not because of a markup. The reason that Apple can't make money on quantity is Sculley's fault, not Jobs. Apple computers were affordable before Jobs left.
Steve's company brought the first personal computer (that could plug into a TV screen, with colour graphics and sound) to the masses. Also the first consumer floppy drive (tapes were the thing before that). The first computer with a GUI, and the first laser printers (along with Canon). And again, when Jobs came back, he brought the iMac, the iPod, and the entire iLife suite to the masses (iDVD, iMovie, etc). Those things wouldn't exist without Jobs; the PC industry was declared dead with no future until Jobs announced the iMac and the digital hub.
Why do so many people worship this one guy?
He's one of the very few people in the consumer-oriented computer industry that moves it forward. Enterprise computing has their own heros (Oracle and Sun come to mind).
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you read, I wrote:
Apple's no longer in a position to afford profiting by quantity. The first step is to make the public want Macs. In 1997, the public didn't care. In 2004, finally, Apple is associated with Cool. The public wants Macs.
The thing I find is, whenever I tell someone how much an entry level iMac costs, they're always shocked because it's less than they expected. Step 2 is to make the public decide to buy Macs. That's what the Apple stores and the iPods are for.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do so many people worship this one guy?
I think this statement is a tad off -- while Jobs has a fair chunk of admirers, he's not worshipped by the vast majority of geeks out there.
Still, it can't be denied that the guy has two strong points in his favor:
1. He is a charismatic speaker and promoter 2. He has a vision of where he wants technology to go, and how people use it.
Say what you want about Jobs, he's not a guy whose only goal is to sell you a shiny new box, like Mike Dell does. Beneath the s
It's the vision thing (Score:4, Interesting)
As for the drop in market share, that is not SJ's fault, it was John Sculley's, and the cluless mob that followed after him. Apple was about to go tits up when SJ returned and used his vision to put the company back on track. In fact, SJ's biggest error was bringing Sculley over, then making an enemy of him. One can only wonder at the shape of the industry today if that had not happened. I'm sure one Bill Gates would have far less influence, power and money, that's for sure.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
1) He helped popularize the personal computer;
2) He helped popularize the user interface that the majority of those computers now use;
3) He helped revolutionize the computer, industrial and product design industries with the iMac (and made USB truly "universal");
4) He helped revolutionize the way people acquire, manipulate and experience music (and stopped Microsoft's bid for domination dead in its tracks);
5) He heads an animation studio that is the undisputed leader of what is becoming a new "Golden Age" in animation;
6) He financed the most successful television commercial ever produced;
7) He brought Apple back from the brink of extinction...
And each of the organizations he heads is obsessed with producing the best quality products possible. There's a lot of crowing here in Slashdot and elsewhere when Apple slips, but the people there put more time, effort, intelligence and care into what they do than just about any organization you could name.
And, yes, I worked there.
Re:Why? Rebuttal. (Score:5, Informative)
Yes! He has the balls to do what some people dream of. He's a guy who will go ALL IN on a 4-5 off-suit because he KNOWS that he'll make a straight on the flop. (Yes, i'm a Hold-em fan). He can push USB and FireWire and make it mainstream. He can push a UNIX-based OS and have people use it.
Since 1984 he has done some good things (NeXT, the first iMac, OS X), but a lot of really bad ones.
Thanks for making my job easier and naming the good things, but you failed to mention the bad things! Like what, killing the Newton? The Cube was a technological marvel, but was overpriced... Name a few more! C'mon!
In the meantime, the Mac's marketshare fell below 2% and has been overtaken by Linux Desktop's share.
MARKET SHARE is not the same as INSTALLED BASE. Market Share is a percentage of computers sold in a quarter / year. i.e. of every 100 computers sold, 2 are Macs. Installed Base is just that, how many computers are Macs? The numbers float around 11-13 percent.
As for Linux overtaking the Mac, you word it in such a way that Linux users are switching from Mac, whereas Linux and the Mac are about even when it comes to market share. The word "overtaking" is deceptive. Just because I "overtake" you in traffic doesn't mean you're driving slower than you already were. It just means i'm driving faster. Just because Linux has a larger market share, it doesn't mean the Mac is losing ground to Linux.
Lots of people agree that the real reason of the Mac slow but sure descent into Hell is Job's elitist vision and its results, overpriced hardware, rumor cult(ure) at Apple, etc.
Let me take a minute and digest what you said....wait..not done...okay.
What people? If anything Jobs' vision has made the Mac what it is today (compared to 3, 5, even 7 years ago). Think of it this way. You're not paying for overpriced hardware. You're paying up-front for some incredible software that is already pre-loaded onto the Mac (Simple, junk-filtering threaded eMail, pop-up blocking Safari, vCal-reading iCal, System-wide Address Book, iLife++)
Today the guy seems more interested in selling online muzak than selling less-than-$2000 computers. iMac's and eMac 's used to be nice
He's selling music to sell iPods! There's no money in selling music online.
As for your comment about $2000 computers, Apple currently has 5 product lines, and a total of 16 "stock" machines within those lines. Of those 16, *5* are over $2,000 (7 if you count the ones at $1,999).
Only ONE consumer-based product is over $2,000: the 20" iMac. ALL iBooks and eMacs are under $1,500. Hell the eMacs START AT $800.
Wow. That was fun. My first troll-rebuttal!
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the negative tales about Jobs probably have some grounding in truth -- it was almost amusing watching him berate the stage people before a show for glitches in the prop moving systems: "What the hell is this??? Did you guys pick up these parts at Home Depot???". However, he did always listen when I was talking about a technical issue, even when I was saying something that didn't sit with his current understanding of graphics cards / APIs / gaming.
When I was considering setting up to demo Doom 3 at macworld, all of the Apple people were going on about how we needed to sanitize it because "Steve won't let there be any blood or killing". I finally went to him directly, and he replied "If you think you can make it great, then let's do it. I trust you, so you'll have to decide." Not quite the overbearing micromanager he is sometimes portrayed as.
I'm not a regular mac user, but I'm glad Steve Jobs is still around.
John Carmack
Woz Invented the Apple, not the Mac (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I wouldn't mind Apple if it wasn't for ... (Score:5, Insightful)
2) And yet for all of that, no one did anything like it until Apple did it.
3) No matter where you go, there will be fan boys
4) It's not that the single button itself is better, it's the philosophy that you should be able to do everything with a single mouse button. Just for fun, try to create a new folder on your desktop of your windows machine with only the left click.
That and when you really think about it. If you're hard set in teh 2 button ways, you already own a 2 button mouse, so just plug it into your mac and be done with it.
Counterpoint (Score:4, Interesting)
I would agree that Wozniac is the greater technical genius. I have not been that impressed with Jobs in the past, but to discount what he has done over the last few years is to fail to recognize real talent. You cannot deny he has brought Apple a huge amount of mindshare and given them a great technical direction over the last few years
2. a futuristic vision that only about 40 years out of date. Take the ipod - it looks like it came straight out of the movie '2001', which was released in 1968
Related to the aforementioned skill of product design above is knowing when retro will sell, and when to move away from it. You'll note that they don't sell candy-colored computers anymore (though they are starting to sell colored iPods).
3. rabid myopic fanboys. Yes, I am aware of the irony of posting this on Slashdot.
They exist for any platform.
4. product deficiencies that are actually features. For a great example of this, bring up the single mouse button thing to a bunch on Mac fanatics. You will be informed that a single button is better, that you can compensate by doing this and that and this, and that you don't really need more than a single button anyway.
I've never heard anyone argue that. I use a three (or more) button mouse for an external mouse, but I do have to say that I personally prefer a single button on a laptop as I am always accidentally hitting the right one on most PC laptops. Since my hands are on the keys all the time anyway I find chording to work better on laptops and two buttons to be very inefficient.
Re:I wouldn't mind Apple if it wasn't for ... (Score:5, Insightful)
What, exactly, do you mean by "Real?"
There is more than one kind of genius, and all kinds are very real. There is genius in mathemeticians who focus only on esoteric theories, there is genius in engineers who only solve real problems they can feel, and there is genius in Ella Fitzgerald's singing.
The genius of Dali's art is very different in kind from the genius of a certain Finnish student coming up with the right code for the world, but who would say that Linus Torvalds is no genius?
Not all genius is necessarily what you might consider to be good. There is a genius in Bill Gates' domination of markets, in George W. Bush's political mastery, in Osama Bin Laden's sheer survival skills and leadership abilities.
Both Wozniak and Jobs are geniuses, in their own way. Wozniak is the engineering genius, and Jobs is the marketing and management genius.
And neither one is really less of a genius than the other.
Re:steve jobs vision needs glasses! (Score:5, Insightful)
MS, on the other hand, has slavishly followed and usually dis-improved. Or been way late to the party. For example, Apple added Quartz Extreme a couple of years ago: use OpenGL and the today's opwerful graphics cards to improve and accelerate the Mac UI. MS will bring this to Longhorn in a couple of years.
Heck, MS so copies Apple that they even use the same color schemes and desktop patterns for their advanced UI previews. They can't even come up with their own.
And THAT is the difference between Jobs and Gates.
Not that Gates hasn't innovated. He has. But in the business/marketing realm, not design or technology. Most of us geeks admire tech/design innovators over marketing innovators.
Re:Malibu Stacy touched my junk (Score:4, Insightful)
Although I agree with the article's point of view, you're dead-on about the submitter's bias. Of course, the submitter's bias is probably why the submitter noticed the article in the first place, and if the submitter didn't like the article, he/she probably wouldn't have submitted it.
This is clearly an opinion piece, not so much a report.