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Microsoft Unhappy With HP's iTunes Decision
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Jan 12, 2004 09:46 PM
from the limiting-choices-incorporated dept.
from the limiting-choices-incorporated dept.
rbrandis writes "The general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products. In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said, 'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'"
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i do have a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:i do have a choice (Score:5, Funny)
Does anyone else cringe when you see/hear the words "choice" and "Microsoft" in the same sentence?
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Bad for consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bad for consumers? (Score:5, Funny)
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NEWS FLASH! (Score:5, Interesting)
Why don't they sue Apple ? Hell, iTunes is bundled with OS X! Because they'll bundle a music store with media player soon enough... and try to kill iTunes completely.
People may hate Windows Media Player... (Score:5, Informative)
Terribly, terribly grateful (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Terribly, terribly grateful (Score:5, Funny)
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What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
"According to the New York Times, Dell also suggests HP is making a mistake. A Dell spokesman said: "We expect competition and it's good for customers. Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.''"
I am no English expert, but it sure sounds like they are tryin to say that WMA should be the only game in town, and are at the same time trying to play it off that they 'want' competition.
Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Interesting)
"The next big thing isn't the next gizmo or killer app or hot box. Customers want all this to work together and they want a seamless approach. We're very much going to make sure that the Microsoft and Apple worlds work together. That's part of the power we bring to this thing."
meaning HP is treating Microsoft as just another supplier, where Dell can't.
So, IMHO, because HPs CEO has more balls
Yay competition!
Soko
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Doubletalk is doubleplus good!
Its a sentence constructed in a way that is meant to make its readers come off with a feeling that 1) Dell wants what's best for them, 2) Dell made industry choices based on what is best for the costumer (damned lie), 3) Dell's choice will become a standard, and therefore: if you buy a different standard than what Dell is selling you will be buying something that will be nonstandard in the future (ooooh, bad!).
In other words: FUD.
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Re:What confuses me is Dell's response.... (Score:5, Insightful)
AND btw, AAC *is* an industry standard. It's just not the one Microsoft wants. WMA, on the other hand, is *proprietary*, and is not a "standard" at all. Just like all the other Windows stuff, the like to call it "the standard" simply because it's popular, and because they get away with it. Another example of doublespeak!
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HP kills DRM (yay Carly) (Score:5, Funny)
Anybody who has installed any kind of media player on Windows knows what I'm talking about... it's almost impossible to assign specific file types to Window's Media Player, QuickTime, RealPlayer, Winamp, etc., without all of these applications trying to steal the right to handle these file types out from one another. Now the same thing is going to happen, but with DRM in the mix?
It's going to be a zoo. Nobody is going to stand still for this, especially when people start losing the right to access content they've already payed for.
And just wait till this shit starts happening to everybody's porn collection. People will be running amok in the streets.
Wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
She is no ones friend save for herself and her fellow exec. She thinks nothing of the employers/users/shareholder of HP.
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MS = Choice = BAH! (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is ALL about cornering you into using MS products...
PRIME example is their damn Movie Maker 2... quite nice program to use (I haven't used iMovie, so I can't compare), but then try and save... "Hmmm, I'd like to save to an open format that pretty much anyone can play... VCD or SVCD, or perhaps just plain MPEG would be nice." "Hmmm, I seem to ONLY be able to save to MS formats unless I have a few gig free to save out to a straight DV dump and then use someone else's program to convert to a more user friendly format, so really I'm forcing anyone who wants to watch movies I've made to have an MS compatible player"
"Hmmm, MS can blow me, and blow me hard"
Re:MS = Choice = BAH! (Score:5, Informative)
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Betamax vs. VHS (Score:5, Interesting)
Sony had a superior quality format for videotape (betamax), but wouldn't share with anyone. Meanwhile, Panasonic, Philips, and others all got together and agreed on VHS format. Competition brought lower priced machines, and eventually VHS killed betamax for home use.
Microsoft is half-right: it is about choice-- but it must ALL be available for choice: the hardware, the OS, the apps, the data format. Only true, open standards under a GPL, LGPL, or other similar "free to evolve independent of any single vendor"-type license will work in the long run.
Honest Question (Score:5, Interesting)
AppleTurns (Score:5, Insightful)
Check it out, this was the best a company spokesperson could muster to undercut the announcement: "Windows is all about choice... we believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services." Translation: "Use any service you want as long as it sells Windows Media, buy any player out there as long as it plays Windows Media-- but for heaven's sake, don't buy one of those wretched iPod thingies or we'll be completely boned with our whole plan to monopolize digital media commerce and then we might actually have to start innovating for our paychecks for a change." Or, to put it a little more succinctly, "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black."
iPod vs Dell DJ (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a 5gb 1st Gen iPod, and I now have a Dell DJ (Dell gave me the credit, Apple wouldn't).
I prefer the iPod.
The DJ works ok, but the user experience isn't as good.
There's no way to stop a playing song. Only pause it.
Syncing music is not intutitive.
Navigating through the tracks on the DJ takes FOREVER.
It's just not as well thought out as iTunes and the iPod are.
I'm thinking of selling my Dell DJ on eBay, and buying an iPod or an iPod mini.
Choice? Oh, that's rich. (Score:5, Insightful)
HP made a choice, as the market seems to be doing as well.
Let's see how well Microsoft lives with this.
Oh, and to all of you who say "Watch how high the price of Windows goes for HP", Microsoft won't dare do anything of the sort. Having both IBM and HP actively looking to kill Windows is not something Microsoft shareholders would appreciate.
Soko
If Microsoft's so pro-choice... (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, there has never been a more monopolistic, closed technology advocate than Microsoft. If someone comes up with something original, or something that's superior to anything Microsoft can engineer, then they'll be driven into the ground by the full force of the Microsoft machine.
I use Microsoft products (eg, Windows 2000, Office) and I also use non-Microsoft products that compete directly with the company's offerings (eg, Opera, Winamp). I'm not pro- or anti-Microsoft. What I am is pro-choice. And, frankly, that's one thing Microsoft can accurately never claim to be.
After all . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember, kiddies, that Microsoft is never about competing. Otherwise, they'd still be working on IE for Mac OS X, instead of complaining that another browser beat them.
Take your toys and go home, I say. We don't want you here.
this and that (Score:5, Funny)
Also,
Slavery is Freedom
and
War is Peace
If I remember my Orwell right.
Apple Choice vs. Microsoft "Choice" (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple wants to provide the "choice" of a Non-Windows platform and non-Microsoft technology. And Apple, for all their ills as far as co-opting technology in ways distressingly similar to Microsoft, has never been known to utterly decimate the competition or actively belittle or disparage them. What Apple does when they add new features to the OS is to simply set the bar higher for 3rd party developers.
Apple bothers me in some things, but when it comes right down to it, I don't see Apple trying dirty tricks in the background to drive anyone away from creating music services for the Mac platform. Microsoft would just -love- to push vendors into a MS Music Store lock in.
The first thing Carly has said that I like... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is probably the only remotely interesting initiative HP has embarked on since Carly took over.
Let's hope it's more successful than most of them have been.
Lots if iTunes-compatible players (Score:5, Insightful)
What these other players do NOT support is AAC-DRM files like those sold by the iTMS. I'm sure Apple would be happy to license their DRM scheme to a third-party mp3 player if they wanted to do so and the price were right. Money talks.
every zealot's wet dream! (Score:5, Funny)
If microsoft did this once a month, IT productivity would go up 10%.
WHO is David Fester? (Score:5, Interesting)
Internet Explorer Bug Makes a Return Visit [wired.com]
In 1998 he was the management flunky most directly responsible for all those MSIE bugs.
"On the one hand, they say they're pursuing standards, but they're implementing and pushing proprietary technology with their development community," Microsoft product manager David Fester said. "Microsoft has pledged 100 percent standards support for some time. The truth is in the pudding and the products."
Pot, Kettle Black (netscape, microsoft , standards, name-calling) [com.com]
Wednesday's Windows Media announcements are specific to XP, said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows Digital Media division. "These are companies that are doing things specifically around XP," he said. "As you know, our Windows Media effort is broader than just XP."
Windows Media announced for MAC/Linux/Solaris (not) [com.com]
"This is unprecedented, but we realized we need to work together [with Netscape] for the common good. We decided we should not propose separate standards for privacy software." David Fester, Microsoft, June 97
More Outright Lies from David Fester [tprc.org]
Tell me again why I want to listen to *anything* this man has to say.
Re:choice (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:choice (Score:5, Informative)
iTunes doesn't require you to have an iPod. It works fine on your computer. And it's the only solution that allows you to take the files you buy from it, unprotect them, and turn them into whatever format you want.
I know, you'll call me an Apple apologist. Whatever. I guess I could call you a Microsoft apologist and it would make as much sense.
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Re:choice (Score:5, Informative)
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And in this instance, you're wrong. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:....just out of curiosity (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:....just out of curiosity (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:....just out of curiosity (Score:5, Informative)
Jon of DeCSS fame has already done this [slashdot.org].
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Re:Isn't he right? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Isn't he right? (Score:5, Informative)
iTunes itself allows you to create unprotected MP3 and unprotected AAC from your own music collection and do whatever you want with them.
I do not believe Microsoft's Windows Media Player for the Mac allows listening to protected WMA files, so in that regard the WMA format is more locked in than AAC (currently).
Also if you look at Buy.com's music store you'll see that instead of Apple's flat and mild DRM policy (same policy all songs), music company's can restrict you to how often you can copy music to your player and how many times you can play a song and if you can burn it to CD (the ability to do this may be in AAC files, i'm not sure, but it has not been enabled)
so no, currently the itunes is not as restrictive as Windows Media Player, but the protected AAC's can only be played on iPod players (if Apple gains a large enough share of the online music world -- say 90%, there may be an anti-trust law suit against them for not allowing the songs to be played on non-Apple devices)
Kevin
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Re:Isn't he right? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can play DRM-encoded AAC iTunes content on iPods, other iTunes equipped Macs and PCs, burn the content to CD, and stream your AAC library to other Macs/PCs on the local network.
However, it doesn't matter. You could turn your argument on it's head and state that you can only listen to DRM-WMA content on DRM-WMA devices (and exactly how many WMA devices currently support DRM-locked WMA files?), whereas you can listen to DRM-encoded AAC files on any iPod/HP Music Player/Mini iPod or iTunes equipped Mac or PC.
Both would still pale in comparison to the number of devices that can support MP3s. Microsoft is pissed because the choices that HP is offering doesn't include their brand of proprietary lock, weakening the chances that WMA will become the new
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Re:Isn't he right? (Score:5, Informative)
OK, Let's see if I can clear this up for you.
iTunes can handle several different audio codecs. Most of my files are MP3s, but some are AIFFs and some are AAC. That being said, I can sync and listen to ALL my MP3s and AIFF files on ANY player that can understand them. You don't need an iPod to listen to MP3s from iTunes - almost any MP3 player will do.
iTunes Music Store on the other hand only provides AAC encoded content. You must have a device capable of playing AAC files to play this content - or, you can make a playlist, hit "burn" (you don't even need a CD - there is software that can make a "virtual" CD") and you now have all your purchased content in 128 Bit MP3 format. Yes, one extra step, but easy to do and it's then DRM-Free. I do this so that I can play my purchased music on my MP3-enabled CD player in the car or in my office at work. So the long and short of it is, iTunes content isn't only AAC DRM'd Files.
Hope that clears it up. Don't listen to the FUD put out by those who seem to feel threatened by it. iTunes is an excellent player/organizer in it's own right and doesn't need an iPod to work.
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Somebody has to say this too... (Score:5, Funny)
- Henry Ford
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naked FUD? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:choice? (Score:5, Funny)
- Your free web-based e-mail account can end in either msn.com or hotmail.com... your choice!
- You can browse the web with either Internet Explorer or MSN Explorer... your choice!
- You can read your e-mail with Outlook Express or Outlook... your choice!
- You can use Windows XP Home or Windows XP Pro... your choice!
- You can use WMA files with any music player that has paid the appropriate fees to Microsoft, plenty of choices available in the market!
- You can get WMA files from any music service that has paid the appropriate fees to Microsoft, plenty of choices available in the market!
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Re:choice? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:choice? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's completely moronic when people blame a company that's doing something that other companies never tried (a better codec, less restricting DRM, seamless integration) all while people are rooting against them. If you're going to blame someone, blame the other companies for not supporting AAC in their players, Apple is already working on Windows Media for iPod.
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Re:choice? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called MP3.
So much for vendor lock-in. 'Course, if you really want to use AAC, you could use iPod or this from Nokia [mphone.co.uk] and while we're talking about Nokia, what about that cool new N-Gage [cellular.co.za] . Then again there's this new model from O2 [theregister.co.uk]. And of course, it won't be long before you can buy HP's iPod clone.
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