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Technology (Apple) Businesses Apple Technology

Recent Macs Have Built-in USB 2.0 86

Posted by pudge from the taking-your-word-for-it dept.
RalphBNumbers writes "According to a forum thread at CreateMac, a Korean Mac community, the newer MDD 1.25 and 1.42 GHz dual G4s actually use a NEC PD720101 USB 2.0 controller for their built-in USB. Apple's drivers only support USB 1.x, but you can apparently enable USB 2.0 functionality by using the drivers for a USB 2.0 card from Orange Micro that uses the same NEC controller. YMMV." Is there a translation of any of this, somewhere?
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Recent Macs Have Built-in USB 2.0 More

Recent Macs Have Built-in USB 2.0

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  • It's about time the Macs support USB 2.0. Both my external 200 GB hard drive and my external DVD+RW use USB 2.0 and I have been putting off getting a Mac because of it. Now that I know I can hook these up to a Mac, maybe I'll think about it....

    • Re:About time... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Um. Duh. Take the 200 GB drive out of its case and put it inside the Mac. You've got four internal ATA slots.

      And use the DVD-RW in the Power Mac instead of a POS external DVD+RW.

      Excuses, excuses.

    • Re:About time... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by myov ( 177946 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @06:21PM (#5765997)
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the device fall back to USB 1 speeds in that case?

      • Re:About time... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by galaxy300 ( 111408 )
        I don't think that would work very well for burning DVDs, and moving large files around would be just painful. I actually like the USB 2.0 card I've put in my laptop -- I know moving to firewire would be nice, but I'm just not crazy about the upgrade expense...

        • Re:About time... (Score:3, Informative)

          by myov ( 177946 )
          Yeah, I should have mentioned that in my comment. I find even firewire hard drives slow, so USB1 must be painful. A USB 1 dvd burner? Forget it. My usb1 cd burner takes 15 min to burn, and that's only for 640MB, not a 4 Gig disc.

          But IIRC, the entire USB tree drops down to USB1 speeds if even a single USB1 device is used. So you may not be getting the speed you expect either.
          • Probably true -- just like the old SCSI days...

            Luckily, I only have 2 USB 2.0 devices, and they're both plugged directly into my 2.0 card. All of my USB 1.1 devices (printer, mouse, card reader) are plugged into an old USB hub that's plugged into the USB 1.1 port on my laptop. I can't wait until the day when all of those peripherals are all running on bluetooth or some other wireless protocol...
      • USB 2.0 works fine, except all devices downstream from a hub have to work at the same speed. This means: You need to buy a hub to put your keyboard, mouse, printer, digital camera, memory card readers, etc on so that your other devices can take advantage of USB 2.0's speed, and then only half of it, if I recall the spec.
    • Interesting. All my external stuff is firewire, in fact, I purchased a Sound Blast Audigy so I could use them with my PC.

      As far as I am concerned USB is for mice, keyboards, and the like. Firewire is for hard drives, burners, etc.

      • Re:About time... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by galaxy300 ( 111408 )
        Thinking back to a year ago, I wish I had bought a firewire ext. hard drive, but it seemed like the PC Cards for USB 2.0 were cheaper. I have a laptop and my options for expansion were fairly limited -- I think I liked the fact that I could just bring my hard drive to work and plug it in to my USB port and pull everything off of it. Now I have an iPod and I have all the firewire ports so a firewire drive would have made sense...

        All of my USB 2.0 devices have worked great, though and at a pretty decent sp

  • Translation (Score:2, Informative)

    by The J Kid ( 266953 )
    Here's a translation..[clicky] [ttp].

    But there isn't really much text anyway....

    Rejoice Rejoice ! One time where you don't have to RTFA ! WooHoo!

  • Translation fun (Score:5, Funny)

    by yomegaman ( 516565 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:35PM (#5765774)
    I used BabelFish to translate it and here is how the title came out:

    Power in Mac the up-to-date USB 2.0 internal organs?

    It's alive!

  • USB Secrecy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:42PM (#5765806) Homepage Journal
    A lot of manufacturers, including Apple, seem pretty pretty close-mouthed on the 1.1/2.0 issue. I don't recall ever seeing an ad for a complete system that specified which version of USB the system supports. I guess everbody has an inventory of motherboards with built-in USB 1.1 that they need to use up. Not that big a deal if you've got an extra PCI slot for a $20 USB 2.0 card. But what if you have an iMac or some other system with no "legacy" ports or slots?

    • Re:USB Secrecy (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A lot of manufacturers, including Apple, seem pretty pretty close-mouthed on the 1.1/2.0 issue

      No.

      Apple has always stated that you get USB 1.1 performance from their USB ports. If you want higher-speed, you use Firewire.

      The fact that newer machines "may" have a 2.0 compatible controller is likely due more to that's what's easily available from the semiconductor manufacturers. Apple has not been selling those as 2.0 compatible, so the drivers do not support using them in 2.0 mode. It's that simple

    • Re:USB Secrecy (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you cared about having slots, you wouldn't have bought an iMac. That's like asking what you do if you have a PS2 and want to get USB 2.0 for it.

  • My guess is apple don't support usb 2 because it would kill firewire 800, a standard that doesn't seem to be adopted by many manufacturer yet.

    • Re:USB 2 Treat Firewire 800 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Wesley Felter ( 138342 ) <wesley@felter.org> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @06:30PM (#5766021) Homepage
      Since FireWire 800 is twice as fast as USB 2.0, it's hard to see a threat there.
      • Since Beta is so much better than VHS, it's hard to see a threat there.

  • USB 2.0 controller and Macs (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tycho ( 11893 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @09:18PM (#5766773)
    Those Macs do have a USB 2.0 controller, but it doesn't really matter. I read the technical documentation for the NEC uPD7020101, which is the controller used in those Macs. The USB 2.0 portion of the controller is trivial to disable and yet still leave the USB 1.1 portion functional. It is also possible to make the USB 2.0 portion permanently disabled in hardware or disabled in hardware, but possible to enable with a hardware hack. Or for that matter disabled, but possible to enable with a new system BIOS or a new driver. Any of these are possible. Anyone care to guess which one is the case? Knowing Apple any could be the case.
    • Apple's KeyLargo south bridge already has several USB 1.1 controllers, so why would Apple use the NEC chip and permanently disable the 2.0 functionality?

      Honestly, none of the possibilities make much sense to me.

      • Re:USB 2.0 controller and Macs (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        It's likely that they used the IC because they are going to adopt USB 2.0 at some point, most likely in another revision of the current. It's not being used to its full advantage in the current models, but a later model might take advantage of it...since the later model might use a similar motherboard, they've designed 2.0 into the motherboard ahead of time?

    • OT look at kill (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by davesag ( 140186 )
      As a US citizen I want the same rights as Iraqi citizens have now. Like the right to loot or to kill who I please.

      If you want to go to Iraq I believe you'll find your govt does grant you those 'additonal rights'. You are simply discouraged from doing it at home. Of course your govt also reserves the right to kill you - at home or abroad. Lucky you eh.

      • This sig was pointed more at the people who were claiming after the fall of Baghdad that now Iraqi citizens had the rights that people in the US have. To me at least most Iraqis currently don't have access to basic human needs like the right to safety or access clean water. Things will certainly become better as time passes. But that is a ways off for the Iraqi people.
    • I read the technical documentation for the NEC uPD7020101

      Yeah, but you forgot to read the article summary. :)

      Anyone care to guess which one is the case?

      Yes, it's fully functional - you can turn USB 2 on with the Orange Micro drivers.

      • Re:USB 2.0 controller and Macs (Score:4, Informative)

        by Tycho ( 11893 ) on Sunday April 20, 2003 @06:53PM (#5770421)
        Yes, but have never heard of any direct quote from anyone who speaks english that these drivers work. The only links to that I have seen are to a Korean forum that have been translated by babelfish. The accuracy of the translation is not perfect so it cannot be relied on. The only direct quotes from english speakers that I have seen say that these drivers do not work.
    • As a US citizen I want the same rights as Iraqi citizens have now. Like the right to loot or to kill who I please.

      All these buildings are yours-- except the Ministry of Oil. Attempt no lootings there.

  • I'm getting a bit tired of this (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hprotagonist0 ( 312387 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @09:35PM (#5766823)
    My Powerbook's got a DVD-R drive that apparently could be a 2X writer and support DVD-RW, but Apple's drivers only support 1X writing and no RW whatsoever. Now this. Why does Apple deliberately cripple its hardware?
    • Why not be happy with one of the best looking and best performing laptops that has a DVD burner?

      The optical drive is connected to the IDE bus anyway, so whether the PB had USB 2.0 or not, it wouldn't affect the DVD-R.

    • Re:I'm getting a bit tired of this (Score:4, Interesting)

      by snuffdiddy23 ( 620624 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @10:21PM (#5766988)
      the powermacs got an update to increase their speed performance to allow for the new higher speed media, and they may follow suit with that with the powerbooks as well.

      i would also say that you should not expect much of an optical drive in a laptop. i imagine that it would be pretty system intensive to burn a dvd at 2x on a powerbook and would get mighty hot anyway.

      apple really does not cripple their hardware so much as not allow for poor support of it. no dvd support at all until 10.1, so why expect them to have support that they feel is satisfactory on a relatively new concept? apple does a great deal of tech support and i think that they are best to not release anything unstable to save their already busy support people when it can all be avoided by quality products.
      • Actually, the firmware update was to correct an issue with the dvd drives, that would cause them to break when a higher rated media (4x) was put in the drive, it still only burns at 2x, it just won't implode on itself when you put a 4x blank in it.
      • "allow for the new higher speed media" apparently everyone was sleeping when Pioneer released this update for their DVR-10x series (the superdrive is just a dvr-104/a04). 4x media would potentially damage the drive, it doesnt speed the drive up and it shouldnt even be considered an "improvement", it's a bug fix, and a rather nasty bug it was.
    • Err....all the SuperDrives have supported DVD-RW...just pop in a disc and it appears on the desktop! The only thing is that iDVD doesn't support DVD-RW; but DVD Studio Pro does! So if you want DVD-RW Video support, purchase DVD Studio Pro.
    • I'm not sure about the speed issue on the PowerBook, but the RW is no problem. Sure you cannot use RWs from OS directly, but you can use them with Toast. Of course you have to buy one, but compared to the price of the laptop...

      I fount this to be true with my desktop (with the Pioneer DVD-RW). I'm not sure about the DVD burning speed, as I don't burn DVDs that often that it would make any real difference.

      Anyway I wouldn't complain, you got a beautiful piece of engineering on your lap...

  • Not true (Score:5, Informative)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @11:10PM (#5767182)
    ...the 2.0 chip isn't wired. Apple, like other OEM'simply bought boards with dual capability, since 1.0 only boards are no longer available in the quantities that Apple needs at this time. It takes another step to enable 2.0 circuitry, and that step has not been taken by Apple at this time.

    The 2.0 drivers are already in the OS, so anyone that thinks they can buy a new Mac, add drivers, and have 2.0 is a bit of a chump.

  • Driver available (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Halo1 ( 136547 ) on Sunday April 20, 2003 @05:30AM (#5768069)
    MacNN's got a story [macnn.com] with a link to unofficial drivers that enable the USB 2.0 functionality. Some comments there indicate they really work, though I can't verify this myself (I have neither an MDD G4 nor any USB2 devices)
  • Now, mind you, I've seen some pretty bad translations from babelfish, but read this one poster's thoughts: ccep ~ Only one day inquiry possibility 1,000 times it goes over, ni the imagining outside it won and the bedspread which is not the minute when bay anyone it does as a favor the answer writing... Right ing ~ nem it does, the bedspreads ~~~ I honestly had tears in my eyes from laughter for a good five minutes. But maybe that's just me.

  • The Orange Drivers Do *NOT* Activate USB 2.0 (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 20, 2003 @11:45PM (#5771476)
    At least the drivers didn't work any magic in my hands. I installed the Orange 3.1 drivers for Jaguar, rebooted, and tested the read rate on a dual fireware400/usb2 drive connected to a PM1.42 GHz running 10.2.5. The drive is peppy over firewire (30 MB/sec) but a regular slug over USB (830 KB/sec).
  • Another thing that is bugging me on migrating over to OS X from a PC environment is the lack of decent scanners for the Mac. Most Firewire based scanners are $399 and up. HP doesn't make any of their decent consumer grade scanners with Firewire ports. It ceases to amaze me since a good majority of HP consumer PC's have Firewire ports. Instead, they just offer USB 2.0. I don't want to use USB 2.0; USB is too processor-intense. I'm not even asking for Firewire800 support, just plain-and-simple IEEE1394a

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