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Thursday Release Party 62

Posted by pudge from the aaallll-day-long dept.
taktile writes "I started the project about a week and a half ago after learning about Apple's ASCIIMoviePlayer. QuickASCII is an Open Source project to add improvements to Apple's player." Another user writes, "There is a small group collaboration program called iStorm that is out. It anyone gets tired of severely delayed collaboration over the Internet, maybe he should try an almost telepathic experience with this program." ludeyork writes "I just saw that BBEdit 7.0 has been released and it's got great new features." It's very cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet. The CVS integration is worth the upgrade for me. yuck72 writes "Apple has just released version 5.2 of its WebObjects application server. Improvements include better J2EE integration, easy tools for building SOAP-based web services and Java Webstart support. Applications can be deployed on any machine with a Java 1.3.1 compliant JVM. Apple's 'best-kept secret' really deserves more attention than it currently gets considering that it plays in the same league as Websphere and Weblogic." Oops, maybe I should have given it its own story.
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Thursday Release Party More

Thursday Release Party

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  • Happy times are here again... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @12:34PM (#4668954) Homepage
    ...how nice to hear a passel of good news, satisified customers, etc. -- and in the computer industry! OMG.

    Thanks for the good vibes. All this carping about Microsoft and the evil spying government gives us indigestion. (It's merely a question of proportions in the "omelette [slashdot.org].")

  • All are missing the one thing I need (Mac OS X) (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BoomerSooner ( 308737 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @12:36PM (#4668969) Homepage Journal
    SFTP access. I use dreamweaver and golive and both cannot connect to a CVS or SFTP based server.

    I know there are third party tools but I want the whole thing integrated.

    If BB has it i'm dropping Dreamweaver and GoLive, if it doesn't it's wait as usual. Since I didn't see it I guess I'll keep waiting.
    • Interarchy 6.0 has SFTP. Interarchy has some BBEdit integration (you can "edit" a file from Interarchy to BBEdit, and saving a file in BBEdit will upload the new version via Interarchy, etc.).

      • Re:All are missing the one thing I need (Mac OS X) (Score:5, Informative)

        by Jean-Pierre ( 81373 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @01:02PM (#4669211)
        forget interarchy [interarchy.com] for sftp, check out panic's transmit [panic.com]. it is a very well constructed cocoa application and is $25 USD rather than interarchy's $45, but if cost is really an issue you can look into fugu [umich.edu] a free sftp cocoa app written by the university of michigan coding cowboys...

        couldn't the user above tunnel their connections though?
        • The point was integration with BBEdit, though, and Transit and fugu don't do that, as best I can tell.
          • The point was integration with BBEdit, though, and Transit and fugu don't do that, as best I can tell.
            Wrong. Transit does have BBEdit integration. It's not one application (as the poster requests) but you can select a file in Transit, pres Edit in BBEdit (or any other arbitrary app for that matter). It will open in BBEdit and once you save it, it is FTPed back to the server.
            • No, I was right. I said "as best I can tell," and as best as I could tell at the time, Transit could not do that. It just so happens that my best was not good enough, but that doesn't make my statement wrong!
              • You are right, sorry about possibly being harsh. English is only my second language, so it might happen I do not pick up the exact weight of certain words. Your post was probably right, but what you could tell at that time was wrong. :) Is this something we can agree upon?
                • Eh, I was just screwing around. When I thought what I thought, I was wrong. Transit can do what I thought it could not. I should go moderate myself as a Troll.
        • I use WinSCP in windows and Putty and they work great. The command line ssh/sftp works fine in os x but like I said i'm looking for all GUI, preferably integrated with my coding environment.

          However these look like good alternatives so I'll try them out. The frustrating thing is after buying MX Studio and the design collection (came with golive 6) it's sad they don't include this one small piece of functionality when they have so much shitty bloat in their applications.
    • You can possibly set up an ssh tunnel and use BBEdit's ftp support. This assumes that you have a shell on the destination server.
      • This works just fine -- I've been using this combination for weeks.

        I have a shell on all the servers I'm accessing, though, so YMMV.

        I haven't used Dreamweaver for ages, but you used to be able to specify BBEdit as your text editor. If you can still do that, then you should be good to go.

        The following is taken from the release notes:

        "Additions

        The following major features have been added in BBEdit 7.0:

        Integrated access to CVS (Concurrent Versions System) allows you to transparently work with source files from multiple repositories. [Mac OS X]"

        I would also recommend taking a look at BBEdit's command-line integration. There's a whole section on it in the BBEdit User Manual.

    • Check the new version of BBedit. they claim CVS support.

    • Re:All are missing the one thing I need (Mac OS X) (Score:5, Informative)

      by daeley ( 126313 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @02:23PM (#4670096) Homepage
      The new version (2.1) of Transmit [panic.com] by Panic Software (great guys) has both SFTP support and basic integration with BBEdit out of the box. Check it out!

    • I know you don't want to use third party tools, but for ssh is already installed and it's very easy to setup port forwarding. Heck, it's two lines of code in your ~/.ssh/config file (per host) and then tell Dreamweaver and GoLive to connect to localhost on whatever port ssh is listening. I'd say twenty seconds max to set it up. This is a very integrated solution that many people use for many things, it's not hacky at all.

    • Check out the excellent MacSFTP [wanadoo.fr] or Transmit [panic.com]. With either you can make an SFTP connect and then open text files in BBEdit. Very easy, reliable, secure, and all works together seamlessly (as if they were one program).

      I live in MacSFTP and BBEdit all day.
    • Shouldn't you be using WebDAV if you need it to be encrypted?
  • if webobjects apps can run on J2EE servers... is WebObjects an application framework and development environment for J2EE applications?

    • Re:so what is webobjects? (Score:5, Funny)

      by mattkime ( 8466 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @03:12PM (#4670677)
      yes

    • Ok, you can use WO in collaboration with the J2EE way of doing things. They have built in support for tomcat etc. I haven't used it, and you shouldn't either, though.

      You see, WebObjects predates the web by a couple years-- it started out as EOF and enterirpise object foundation that allows you to deal with any RDMS as objects. When the web came about they added a webfrontend, and really did it right (The WOF).

      Here's an example. I could create all of the functionality of slashdot, from scratch, including users, moderation, friend/foe, story posting, etc. in about 3 weeks. FROM SCRATCH. Oh, and it would have a hell of a lot better performance and scalability than slasdot has now.

      When you want to list the comments on a story, that is merely a query on the DB passed to a repeating object, which has a template in HTML, and thus you have story comments- 20 minutes of work. The query handles ranking, the links are automagically generated, etc.

      It simply is the easiest, most effective, and best product ever put out by Apple or anyone in the web applications / database backed website space.

      It looses, just like the Mac did, because its competition is very difficult to implement, requires consultants, and the sell the $5 million with consultants included solution, and so everybody tries to sell that cause they get a huge markup. (And the companies that uses htese products never can get their sites updated in time, and thus we had part of what caused the dot-com crash.)

      If you're doing any kind of a dynamic or DB backed website, you should learn WO-- at $700 its cheaper than anything that's not free, and if you include your time, its still a LOT cheaper than the free stuff.

      It really is the best kept secret in apple's product line.

      • Here's an example. I could create all of the functionality of slashdot, from scratch, including users, moderation, friend/foe, story posting, etc. in about 3 weeks. FROM SCRATCH. Oh, and it would have a hell of a lot better performance and scalability than slasdot has now.

        That's a big fucking boast. WO is the bomb, but I'm not so sure you could write slash in 3 weeks, and I'm CERTAIN it would not have the same performance/scalability in that time.
        The biggest problems (for WOSlash) that I can think of: memory & updates. Sure you could scale it up onto a few machines easily, but the instaneous updates between sessions on multiple machines is a tough act. I don't know slash code, but I think they fetch almost everything from the db almost all the time, and WO simply isn't really good at that. The fact that you can't easily use more than one DB connection from one app is gonna kill you, I think.

        Slash is probably one of the heaviest used sites in the world, and it holds up really well. Consider: /. doesn't get /.'ed, but Apple does.


        • No, WO does handle this. EOF can handle it, and it can distribute updates between the caches across many machines.

          If /. were written in WO (And running on the same number of machines it runs on now, etc.) it would be better performing.

          Course, its easier to start a site like this in perl or whatever, and grow it like crazy-- it would take 6 months to learn WO first if you didn't already know WO.

          But once you did, you could do it. (I'm not taking into account time to create art, and content, just the code.)
          • No, WO does handle this.

            Pronoun trouble: if by 'this' you mean updating objects between sessions, then ... well, you can do it, but it's not graceful out of the box - unless you're using a big shared editing context, which is possible, I suppose.
            If by 'this' you mean multiple connections to the DB from the same app, then no, WO does not do this out of the box.
            Which isn't to say that it can't be done - I've seen it done at a previous job, but it wasn't pretty, and it wasn't clean, and it probaly didn't help them. ... and it can distribute updates between the caches across many machines.

            Yes, it can, but it does not out of the box. What's more, with the number of updates /. sees, I'd have to think it'd be a fair performance hit to keep them all in sync under WO.

            If /. were written in WO (And running on the same number of machines it runs on now, etc.) it would be better performing.

            I just don't believe that, as much as I'd like to. PERL is damn fast, and damn light. I gotta think that Java and WO add plenty of overhead just because it's OO. Which is great for dev and most applications, but generally means you do take a performance hit. Not a big one, but some.

            But once you did, you could do it. (I'm not taking into account time to create art, and content, just the code.)

            Are you also taking into account all the /. that normal users don't see? All the admin crap, etc?
        • When the hell has Apple's site ever been Slashdotted? They serve most of the movie trailers (Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, Attack of the Clones) that Slashdot links to and have no problems. I can't remember any section of the Apple site being Slashdotted.
      • It simply is the easiest, most effective, and best product ever put out by Apple or anyone in the web applications / database backed website space.

        OK, I aggree with kwerle -- I think all that WO has gone to your head ;)

        I will say that the OSS world would do well to quit copying M$ for a while and take a look around at all of the great, relatively hidden, proprietary software out there. Every time I see JSP and Jakarta Struts, I think fondly about my short time as a WO programmer. If all you know is VB and ASP, maybe that stuff looks good, but anyone who's had time to get to know WO knows better ;)

        Now, WO isn't *that* great -- EOF is the real diamond there, and even it could use improvements.

        The great part is that this technology is so transparent, so clean, that I imagine it should be fairly simple to re-implement as OSS. Perhaps this is what the Tapestry project is trying to do...

        And yes, WO is cheap, but remember that free as in pretzels isn't the point. OSS means being able to develop a community that is committed and resillient. A lot of people have been burned by NextStep's demise and business decisions (to a certain extent justifiable) by Apple that have restricted software development for one reason or another.

        Well, maybe with all of these hackers messing with OSX, the ideas in WO will finally make it into mainstream middleware...

  • BBEmacs?? (Score:5, Funny)

    by seanmeister ( 156224 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @01:34PM (#4669564)
    Looking at the extensive feature list [barebones.com] of BBEdit, it's kinda ironic that it's produced by Bare Bones Software...
    • Well, they did go pretty skimpy on their screengrabs! I mean, not *one* screengrab of BBEdit 7? I know it's a text editor, but still, it's cool enough to deserve at least one darn screengrab.

      /vjl/

    • I'm using 6.5.3 on OS X for all my web and text editor needs and it ROCKS. It was the one reason I didn't stay with linuxppc a few years ago, before OS X (and before mac-on-linux was all that mature). I had debian and yellowdog running on 3 different machines (not to mention slackware on a pentium), but I could never get the hang of emacs. Everyone (except vi users, of course) told me how great it was and how I could make it do everything bbedit did if I wanted but I never learned enough to figure out how to make that work for me. With OS X I feel like I have the best of both worlds, everything I wanted from UNIX plus the easy (for me) to understand interface of the Mac. The bbedit command line tools are a great addition that it looks like are vastly improved in BBEdit 7.

      Damn; that sounded like a switch commercial, sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I never had emacs go BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP....

      • forgot to add (Score:3, Informative)

        by commodoresloat ( 172735 )
        My one beef with BBEdit is it doesn't support hypertext internally. That was a cool feature of Alpha, which will soon be out for os x [mq.edu.au]. I am waiting for alphaX so I can play with that feature. I work with large quantities of text documents (not always HTML but easily converted) and it would be great to have an easy way to navigate them in a primitive web browser like lynx or whatever but internal to bbedit so I don't have to switch to mozilla every time. Which of course doesn't word-wrap when you're looking at text files which is annoying if you actually want to read them rather than just edit code.

        But on the brighter side, back when I first ordered bbedit (version 3 I think it was, something like $50 at educational pricing) they sent me a free "Software That Doesn't Suck" T-shirt.
      • Damn; that sounded like a switch commercial, sorry. If it makes you feel any better, I never had emacs go BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP....

        The same, however, can not be said of vi

  • hmm (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Hadlock ( 143607 )
    i'll probably get flamed for this, but i'm running

    quickascii entrapment.mov

    from the quickascii directory, with entrapment.mov in the same directory, and getting the following error - "quickascii: Command not found."

    help?
    • I don't have quickascii and know nothing about it so this is just a wild guess. Try put a ./ infront of quickascii thus: ./quickascii entrapment.mov

      Why? Quickascii (and './') may not be in your path, so you must put ./ to give you shell the path to the program.

    • ./ indeed (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      welcome to the command line :-)

      And to think, all it took to get you using the command line was a movie player for a terminal. Maybe you're just meant to be a GUI kind of guy?

      Hey, will quickascii find it's way into emacs like 50% of the rest of the code in the known universe?

    • Re:hmm (Score:3, Informative)

      by Lizard_King ( 149713 )
      pulled from macosxhints: [macosxhints.com]

      There's a much easier way to do this:
      "Don't use open, just make sure the file is in a directory on your path, then drag the file 'ASCIIMoviePlayer' to your terminal.app, next pull the movie you want to see onto the terminal and press return.

      Tip: use a movie that is not too large, or reduce your terminal font very small.
      Also, you get the best results by changing the Terminal window settings to white on black. "

      Credit this trinket to: sao
      http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php? s=&th readid=7095

      • Those are good tips, but QuickASCII has been configured to run by default best for the default settings for Terminal.app, i.e. it prints out 80 x 24, black-on-white, etc, unlike the original Apple player.

  • iStorm: interesting, but... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Soulfader ( 527299 ) <sigspace.gmail@com> on Thursday November 14, 2002 @02:16PM (#4670025) Journal
    ...what I really need is a program that allows my boss and I to collaborate on user support documentation. For this to happen, I need to be able to set it to display whatever "improvements" he makes on his screen, but somehow fail to apply those changes to the actual document. I'd pay a lot for such a bug. =)
    • Sorry, pet peeve.

      Although my mom made a big deal out of it, I've never really cared much when someone uses "me" where he should have used "I." On the other hand, for some reason (probably because I'm insane*), it is much more annoying when someone uses "I" where she should have used "me." A person is consciously making an extra effort to speak or write properly, and the effort is actually counterproductive. I am so incredibly lazy that I hate wasted effort, even when it is somebody else's wasted effort. :^)

      The real rule (or close enough for me, since I'm not an English major) is that "I" is used for the subject and "me" is used as an object. But since most confusion comes in plural situations, the following rule of thumb usually is enough to get by:

      Remove the other person/thing/entity from the sentence, and the correct word will usually become obvious.

      In the case above, get rid of the boss for a second. "What I really need is a program that allows [my boss and] I to do such and such..."

      "I need a program that allows I to do such and such."
      OR
      "I need a program that allows me to do such and such."

      Sorry for the rant.

      * I've come to terms with my insanity. Why can't you?
      ---
      If you must know, anal-retentive IS spelled with a hyphen.
    • The trick is to write the first draft in a way that anticipates the sort of changes he'll make, so that his changes turn it into the document you wanted in the first place. You have to really know your boss well to pull this off, and usually by then you get so disgusted you've moved on (unless your name is "Dilbert" -- why he stays in that job is beyond me).

  • BBEdit 7.0 First Look (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Slur ( 61510 ) on Thursday November 14, 2002 @07:03PM (#4672932) Homepage Journal
    For web development my tools are BBEdit, MacCVS Pro 2.7b2, and Transmit 1.7b2. It goes without saying that BBEdit is by far the best editor in any class for making dynamic web sites involving PHP, perl, shell scripts, and SQL. The way I usually work is to maintain my local repository with MacCVS, edit with BBEdit, and use Transmit to FTP files to the remote development servers for testing.

    I've been using BBEdit 7 for about a day, especially testing out the CVS integration. It's really good, but there are some things I miss about MacCVS Pro.

    - BBEdit lacks tag, edit, and watch commands.

    - Although you can do some CVS operations in the BBEdit File Browser (and File Groups) you can't do certain operations when multiple files are selected (including "commit file" oddly).

    - BBEdit doesn't show the status of files in the file browser, file groups, or in window headers. The only way to get revision information is to "Get CVS Status" and read a modal dialog. ...And then dismiss the modal dialog.

    - BBEdit's CVS operations tend to be slower than MacCVS, or seem so, because MacCVS is robustly threaded. BBEdit puts up modal "wait" dialogs every single time it has to contact the remote CVS server.

    - If you're going to do secure CVS BBEdit requires you to set up one of SSH's auto-authentication methods (The whole "ssh-keygen -t dsa" rigamarole). Once the authentication is set up BBEdit's CVS integration is compatible with MacCVS, and the combination is much better than either one by itself.

    - On the positive side, BBEdit's diff function was meant to be integrated with CVS. (BBEdit does the diff itself without using CVS's diff command.)

    The geeks at BareBones have done a great job so far. They're doing the right thing by adding new features gradually, releasing just what works. Obviously they don't want to turn their editor into bloatware. Being able to checkin or diff without leaving BBEdit is a great bonus. If they are able to make BBEdit more threaded and add CVS features to the File Browser (and make it hierarchical for goodness sake!) I might finally be able to give up MacCVS Pro.

    But not yet.
  • BBEdit 7.0 is $180. You can download BBEdit Lite and be eligible for the $120 "crossover" purchase, but still... Would you rather pay $120 or finally learn how to use emacs? I guess it depends on how much you make per hour.
    • Or pay $80 for the educational discount.

      I've been a fan of BBEdit since I first touched BBEdit Lite in...what was it...1997? Even when I stopped using Macs for awhile (because I couldn't stand OS 8/9 and I wanted games) the one thing I really missed about MacOS was BBEdit, and version 6.5 was the first piece of software I bought when I got my iBook with OS X. I use BBEdit for everything text related, rom coding to word processing (I so much prefer it to MS Office). Nothing else compares. Emacs is a overly complicated, bloated, ugly piece of crap. vi is nice enough, but only if strictly necessary, and it doesn't have all the little features that BBEdit has. Pico is actually my preferred console text editor because it's nice and simple, and doesn't require a manual to learn how to use. But none of them stand up to BBEdit in my humble view. More than worth the money I paid for it. Worth double what I paid for it. Hell, I like BBEdit so much, I bought Mailsmith so I could use a BBEdit style interface for e-mail.

      BBEdit. It (Still) Doesn't Suck.

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