Doing the Math On the New MacBook

Technologizer writes "Apple's new MacBook is a significantly different machine than its predecessor — a slicker laptop at a higher price point. But does it carry a large price premium over similar Windows PCs? I did a painstaking spec-by-spec comparison versus three roughly comparably-configured Windows machines, and came to the conclusion that the value it offers for price paid is not out of whack with the Windows world." The article uses the phrase "Mac tax," which one commenter points out is a recent Microsoft marketing canard.

Well, someone paid a tax

I don't know who paid it, but someone did:

The challenge of the thumbscoop was to create a crisply machined scoop that was still comfortable to use. The designers at Apple worked on hundreds of versions of the thumbscoop -- even examining them under an electron microscope -- to get it right.

If anyone can read that last part without laughing...

Re:Well, someone paid a tax

Nonsense. Everybody who's anybody knows the real tax you pay with a Mac is the pain of being hipper than all of your friends.

Re:Well, someone paid a tax

It's all relative. For the average slashdotter to be hipper than all his friends he can do any of the following:

1. Walk up to a girl and say "hi".
2. Move out of his parents basement.
3. Shower.
4. Stop reading /.
5. Stop quoting The Simpsons/Star Wars/Monty Python/etc.
6. Beat the Cheetos and Mountain Dew addiction.
7. You know what - screw this list. I'm way too hip for this.

Re:Well, someone paid a tax

You forgot ... profit!

I also like this

From Apple's Macbook mini-site:

All engineered to standards that don't even exist yet.

So there you have it. If Apple is funding the development of technology to send their designers into the future, where they must then spend years infiltrating futuristic IEEE meetings before returning to the present to design laptops, then of course their machines will be a little more expensive.

But just think of the money you'll save when you can browse the Omninet using remote mind-control in 3245AD while those Dell suckers are stuck with forking out for Dell's by-then outdated brain-implant technology.

One big difference: discounts.

There's one major difference this analysis doesn't cover. If you're patient, you can get a dell for up to 40% off, and although it's not quite as drastic with Lenovo, the same is true. This macbook will ALWAYS be expensive.

Another big difference: competition.

You will also get some brands of Windows laptop much cheaper by shopping around. In fact, Dell is one of the only companies who don't fall into this category.

Not to mention that the review picks Lenovo and Sony, two of the most expensive brands. Where is Asus, for instance?

Re:One big difference: discounts.

Moreover, the Dell that was pointed out as being equivalent to the Apple laptop in the comparison is already 400$ cheaper.

And yet the fanboys want to pass the Apple laptops as not being overpriced. Go figure.

Re:One big difference: discounts.

I got my macbook pro for 33% off from the refurb site. I saw a macbook air there for 42% off the other day.

Design items...

Macs are design items. Some people don't mind paying a higher price for something which appeals to them.

Price is what you pay, value is what you get. If you subjectively feel that the value of the product matches the price paid then an objective comparison is not significant.

Re:Design items...

Many of you? With all due respect there are not a huge number of things that really honestly require a Mac these days. I've done desktop publishing, graphics work, sound recording and design, video editing all on Windows. It works quite well with the right software these days. Granted, if you _have_ to have some particular OS X only software a Mac is the only option. But that's a clear minority these days.

So no, not that many.

But I never said that everyone buys Macs for the nice design. I said that an objective price comparison is irrelevant to someone who did. Don't jump to generalizations just because I managed to irritate you when you didn't bother to read my post thoroughly.

"Mac Tax"

The article uses the phrase "Mac tax," which one commenter points out is a recent Microsoft marketing canard.

Did that commenter also point out that "Mac tax" is (the first time) both written in quotation marks to imply that it's not their phrase and link to an article that was called "Are Macs More Expensive? Definitely - Just Ask Microsoft!"? The whole point of the article is that the phrase has been coined and they're investigating whether Macs are more expensive for the specs than comparable PCs.

Not that I'm saying Macs are cheap - I'd rather custom build/upgrade and slap Linux on it - but it's not as if it's an unbalanced comparison article.

Fingerprint items

Here is one of the items of comparison:

Fingerprint Scanner
The Dell and Sony have one. ADVANTAGE: DELL AND SONY

It makes me laugh every time: Hmmmm a finger print reader......where would I be able to find fingerprints of someone who has used this laptop that I have just stolen? Sure hope they don't always use gloves when they type.....

I mean, where can you think of a more cool-but-useless feature? And it is sooo cool.......

Groundhog Day:

1) MacBook (Beginning of 2006):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

2) MacBook (End of 2006):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

3) MacBook (Mid 2007):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

4) MacBook (End of 2007):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

5) MacBook (Beginning of 2008):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

And now - totally surprising:

5) MacBook (End of 2008):
"AAAAH, EXPENSIVE"
"See, i did the math, it's comparable!"

Who would have thought!

Depends where you buy it

In Europe (UK at least) Apple computers are taxed more, I've heard the stories of people flying to america to buy their Macs there, even with the plane tickets it still works out less than buying at a local shop! WTF?

Im a big Mac guy, but even I felt bad for my friend who wanted to switch, he wanted to rebuy his computer again (long story), his $1500 NZD PC (some media centre thing with tv tuner card etc) was roughly equal in specs to the $3000 NZD iMac he ended up getting, once the warranty on the Mac was brought up to 3 years as well as rebuying Office for Mac. It was painful, and he misses the TV Tuner, ones I've seen that plug in cost HUNDREDS! Ouch.

Maybe in America, but I think in many parts of the world, Macs are very sadly more expensive than PCs. I compare my Macs to computers a friend has built for himself, and theres a big difference in price. I would still take the Mac for design and OSX, but they are not cheap here in New Zealand :)

Actual Conclusion: the Mac Tax = 70%

Long story short, the least expensive Windows laptop he found comparable to the $1400 MacBook was an $820 Dell, making the Mac Tax a whole 70% on top of the price-conscious buyer's choice in the Windows world.

However, he did succeed in finding two similarly overpriced models to the Mac from Sony and Lenovo, demonstrating that bad choices are also available in the PC world, if you look hard enough.

Screen resolutions are a deal breaker for me.

One reason I dislike current laptops are their (generally) crappy LCD resolutions. Over the past 7-8 years I've only used laptops with 14.1in SXGA+ LCDs, including the T60p I'm typing this from. I actually prefer the 14.1in SXGA+ LCDs, but I know it's a losing battle. A very limited number of T61p were released with them, and I'm pretty sure they'll be the last in history.

I'm not unreasonable, and I understand that movies look better if they fill the widescreen. Although with all the variations in widescreen ratios, I'm yet to see a movie without any black borders. You can also display two documents side by side, even though 90% of people I've seen only show a single maximized instance of MS Word with a single document open. Widescreens do take less room in cramped spaces, allow for more keyboard space and even numpads, etc. However I use my laptop for typing, and screen height is far more important than width. I'm a minority though, so I'll adapt.

Now assuming I'd be looking for a replacement laptop tomorrow (hopefully my T60p will last a while), moving to Apple would mean going "down" to a 15.4in WSXGA (loss of 150pixel height) on the Macbook Pros or 13.3in WXGA (loss of 250pixel height and 200pixel width) on the Macbooks. THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS.

On the other hand I just checked out Lenovo's site. Their T500 laptop is offered with a 15.4in WSXGA or WSGA+ resolution. The WSXGA+ is only a $75 upgrade, and it offers the same height and much more width than my SXGA+. The rest of the specs are very close to the Macbook Pro, but at first glance it's about $200 cheaper.

Beyond their arguably sleek design, the absolutely only reason any rational person would even consider a Macbook or Macbook Pro is OS X. I used it briefly, and I really liked it. Unfortunately given my laptop use, the OS alone is not incentive enough to put up with the limited and (slightly) more expensive hardware.

Re:the big diff

And thank goodness for that!

(Mod me down, it was worth it)

Re:the big diff

Which is exactly why I'm a PC guy

Seriously, I'm just going to install and use Linux anyway - I want the best hardware for the lowest price.

Re:the big diff

Interesting. Does Apple offer a refund for OS X to make itself competitive in this regard?

Re:the big diff

There's more than that. What I don't get on other notebooks is:

1. True multi-touch trackpad (not just scrolling). You can go on ebay and try for a fingerworks trackpad when they are available at ebay but they go for big money and are for desktops (but nice software, too bad company was bought by apple).

2. Economizing ports. I like a lack of ports, it always irks me when I see something as antiquated as a serial port on my notebook. Don't ask me why, but it's rather like seeing a floppy drive on a notebook.

3. Stylish elegance. THe unibody construction is really nice. It may be silly, but even the upper end notebooks from competitors seem like hunks of ugly black plastic, and if not, they still get a lot of little things wrong. The little things like their crappy bezels/logos on the back or just the obvious overpacking of ports to fill out a bureacratic checklist. It's like they try to a certain extent, and then promptly give up once they have to invest in something that costs more money than usual.

Yes, Apple owns me completely, I guess I'm their whore in this direction. But since a notebook is a tool I work with all day (has replace my desktop as well), I might as well get something I like, even if it costs a bit more.

I honestly don't get the debate. Either buy it or don't. But this issue/whining comes so frequently, I have to wonder if its from people who want to get one but can't afford it, can't talk their boss/SO into it, or just too cheap. I never hear people obsess over Alienware's prices as much. Even the new Macbook, lacking firewire, may be called the new 13 inch Mac Book Pro for all intents and purposes and considering some of the upgrade, the rise in price was probably warranted (more RAM in both offerings by default is called for though).

Instead, it seems like they are constantly trying to make others feel bad for their purchase. Lighten up, it's just a notebook. I would got with an MSI Wind|EEEpc + cheap desktop if I couldn't afford the Mac right now. Not a big deal.

Re:the big diff

To add:

4. Backlit keyboard. Really nice in dim rooms.

If there are other differentiations, I either don't know about them or not that important to me.

In fact

To reply to my own post, knocking the 13" Macbook up to the same specs as the Lenovo in terms of RAM, HDD, and video out increases the price to $1,457.00, or $150-200 more than the Lenovo depending on whether we go by the "sale price" or the list price.

So in summary: yes, there is a "Mac tax" (which incidentally is a phrase which was in use long before MS adopted it).

Re:Is Apple trying to kill their own tech?

I think Apple's thought process is that if they get rid of the firewire from the low end laptops, people who need it are going to upgrade to Macbook Pros. Which probably isn't that far off. If you require firewire for your work and you're accustomed to FCP, then chances are you're not going to get a Win laptop and Hackintosh it, you're just gonna put in the money to get the one with firewire.

Re:From artickle

"The differences between OS X and Windows are far more significant than any spec I discuss in this article.

Oh, but it's very simple. Unix (4 legs) good, not Unix (2 legs) bad.