Environmental DVD Wrecks Apple Drives

FST777 writes "The British Mail on Sunday published its latest DVD giveaway on the EcoDisc, a thin and bendable DVD format that is supposed to be more environmentally-friendly than regular DVDs. Despite the clear warning against using them in Apple slot drives, some Mac users decided to give it a go. The result? A brisk trade for repair shops in the UK. 'The EcoDisc's manufacturer, ODS, insists the disc won't break drives. "We've produced over ten million of these discs — we've had less than a dozen phone calls," says managing director, Ray Wheeler. "There are ways to get the discs out." Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum." He claims the EcoDisc should work in other types of slot-loading drive, although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3.'"

Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[Bryansix (761547)]

Just throw the whole computer out and buy a new one!

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[ShieldW0lf (601553)]

Simple Fixes for Simple People.

Who takes an unknown disc that they find in a newspaper and sticks it into their machine without so much as reading the cover? It says right on the thing, don't use it in a Mac. Then they want to complain?

Bunch of Flakes.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[snowraver1 (1052510)]

I don't know if you have noticed or not, but many CDs that are distributed today do not contain the "Compact Disk" logo. Back when DRM started, manufacturers started putting blank sectors and other stuff to try to thwart copying. Poeople started complaining about this as those disks no longer conformed to the "Compact Disk" Specification.

The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo, going under the assumtion that if is was the same size as a CD and had a shiny bottom, that people would put it in thier CD players, and people did just that.

To most people a CD is defined as "something that is about 5 inches across and has a shiny bottom. If I put it in my computer something happens."

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[ShieldW0lf (601553)]

As a matter of fact, that pretty much is the definition of a Compact Disc(c). Compact Disk does include such things as discs with SecuROM and other DRM. But for the most part the standard is only what the disc is physically, not what's on it. The main reason people stopped with the Compact Disc(c) logo, is they had to shovel off a couple pennies to Sony each time they printed it, and that wasn't worth it.

Compact Discs have to adhere to a standard that allows them to be read with standard equipment, otherwise, I could take this record and trim it with scissors and call it a compact disc. DRM is not a part of the compact disc standard, therefore, if some circular disc of metal and plastic has DRM, it's not a compact disc, and won't work like a compact disc, and isn't permitted to be sold as a compact disc.

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[Idarubicin (579475)]

Who takes an unknown disc that they find in a newspaper and sticks it into their machine without so much as reading the cover? It says right on the thing, don't use it in a Mac. Then they want to complain?

You're right. Someone saw something that looked like a DVD, and treated it like a DVD. The fools. (The warning on the disc was, apparently, the entirely clear and obvious phrase "NO APPLE SLOT IN DRIVE" in the bottom corner of the label. You did look at the article, right?)

Tomorrow I'm going to leave a platter of poisoned brownies in the lunchroom at work, along with a big sign saying "BROWNIES". It's all on the up-and-up as long as I leave a "NO MOUTH FOOD" label in the bottom corner of the sign, right? I can't wait to see how many suckers I can catch. Ha ha!

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!"

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

Seriously, even Apple users I know rant about their slot loading Macs (you can pry my tray loading Imac G3 from my cold, dead fingers). Both ideas were stupid.

Actually, the Apple slot-loading drive was a response to durability problems experienced by students when they used Mac laptops. Apparently kids were liable to snap the DVD tray right off the laptop. (Not good.) So it wasn't a stupid idea. More like an attempt to balance out a variety of needs.

That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive. ;-)

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!"

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

Indeed. Remind me, what was the point of that?

Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!"

[drsmithy (35869)]

I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.

Of course, back then the complaint was perfectly valid because Apple didn't replace it with anything.

Had the iMac shipped with a CDRW drive, they would have actually been "innovative", rather than "cheap".

"I've heard the opposite..."

[tlambert (566799)]

"I've heard the opposite- that slot-load drives are bad for schools because kids like to stick things in them."

And I've heard that what they stick in the slots is pieces of the trays they snap off from other machines that have (had?) tray loading drives.

-- Terry

Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix

[MobileTatsu-NJG (946591)]

Why did you feel the need to qualify your ownership of an iPod, when you posted as an anonymous coward anyway?

Maybe because he's just telling the truth. Frankly, if I were criticizing Apple, no matter how legitimate the complaint is, I'd post anonymously too. Case in point: The guy says Apple doesn't abide by standards, your reply is an unrelated nitpick about his post.

I'll bet his post has a -1 by the end of the day.

Problem Solved!

[goatpunch (668594)]

Apple has solved this problem by releasing the MacBook Air without a DVD drive built in- it's much easier to throw away and replace a USB accessory.

Who is out of specs again?

[Stormwatch (703920)]

Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum."

So the drives are out of specs. Yet the DVD Forum's specs allow for thin and bendable discs? Doubt it.

Re:Who is out of specs again?

[timster (32400)]

I think it's more like this: Product A isn't compliant to standard X, but works with all products conforming to standard X. Product B also works with all products conforming to standard X, but is also noncompliant itself. And now it so happens that Product A and Product B don't work together, and the makers of Product B are blaming the makers of Product A.

No

[Rix (54095)]

They've specifically said they wouldn't support Apple's non compliant hardware, which Apple dishonestly marketed as compliant.

Yes

[Rix (54095)]

Calling them DVD drives certainly does that, and really, not coming clean with the fact that they're *not* is enough.

environmental friendliness

[fred fleenblat (463628)]

The environmentally friendly thing to do would be to have NO disc at all. Just point people at a download site and let them get the disk image from the tubes using zero plastics, chemicals, landfill, or other resources in the process.

Re:environmental friendliness

[pclminion (145572)]

Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?

I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much?

Not a CLEAR warning!

[Lord Byron II (671689)]

The warning was:

"no Apple slot in drive"

Re:Not a CLEAR warning!

[teslatug (543527)]

Clear the warning was...if yoda you were

This worked for me

[jlherren (1025754)]

A friend once put such a disk in his MacBook and then called me after he couldn't get it out. I tried several things, including opening the Mac, with no luck. After some searching I found a solution on the net: Reboot the MacBook holding it upside down... the disk properly ejected right on booting. I don't know why and I don't know if it's reproducable, as I didn't want to try to put it in again. (btw, reading the disc while it was in worked fine.)

Re:Now don't forget

[snowraver1 (1052510)]

We in the industry call that a "feature".

Re:pot, meet kettle

[Pluvius (734915)]

Discs don't have ejection systems, so no.

Rob

Re:pot, meet kettle

[Sen.NullProcPntr (855073)]

A little more info from OSD's [ods.com] ecodisk PDF:

"Some Matshita Computer Slot-in drives (used in Apple computers) do not follow the DVD forum specifications (by omitting the guide shafts) and thus it might happen that the EcoDisc will not be ejected at first trial, or has to be removed manually"

Nothing in the document says that the disk meets any standard.
But it does state that "ODS has applied for 4 patents up to now" so it must be good(TM).

Re:Well...

[DingerX (847589)]

Yes, non-Macintoshes have them, I suppose. But what about what happens when you put a regular bad CD into the drive? On a Mac, you can always eject the disk by going to the Disk Manager (whatever that thing is called). Unless, of course, the CD is bad, then the disk manager won't necessarily load. No problem, just hold down one of those funky keys while selecting "restart." That will work, provided the disk isn't bad.

Well, you can always boot the machine into console and issue a direct "eject disk" command.

But then, of course, you'd say it was the user's fault for not knowing the disk was bad before inserting it.

This will be fun: Non-standard DVD player and an unusual DVD. Does the DVD adhere to appropriate standards, in which case, we can all gloat that the stylish and disposable Mac du jour falls victim to its own preciousness, or is this a matter of shared liability?

Re:apple slot loader

[emag (4640)]

/how 'bout them apples?

Haven't you been reading? They don't work in them apples either...