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Space Shifting DVDs to Cost Extra?

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wednesday December 05, @01:04PM
from the digital-restrictions-monkeybusiness dept.
Depending on who you listen to Steve Jobs has supposedly been pitching the idea of selling "premium" DVDs that would include an extra fee for the privilege of transferring your legally-purchased DVD to a different device. "The courts have held that "space-shifting" your CDs to a portable music device is a fair use. So you can legally import your CD collection to your iPod, or any other device, without paying a penny. But Steve Jobs apparently wants to charge you $4 for the privilege of doing the same with your DVDs."
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  • No way... (Score:4, Funny)

    by hax0r_this (1073148) on Wednesday December 05, @01:06PM (#21587535)
    Are you trying to tell me that Steve Jobs wants to make money off of consumers?
    • Re:No way... by CaptainZapp (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @01:08PM
      • Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by OECD (639690) on Wednesday December 05, @01:45PM (#21588103) Journal

        I don't think that the issue is if Mr. Jobs wants to make money of Consumers the question is how.

        The thing is, I don't think that Apple is going to make much money off of this. They traditionally don't make much on content.

        I have to wonder if this isn't a way to advertise "ripping" your movies as a feature of their hardware. Remember that the original slogan for the iPod was something like "Rip, Mix, Burn" but they had to stop that lest they be accused of encouraging infringement. This way, it's all DMCA friendly.

        • Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by araemo (603185) on Wednesday December 05, @02:03PM (#21588369)

          The thing is, I don't think that Apple is going to make much money off of this. They traditionally don't make much on content.
          The thing is.. Disney/Pixar DOES make a lot of money off of content.

          And Steve Jobs is on the Disney board of directors.
          • Re:No way... by DittoBox (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @03:58PM
          • Re:No way... by j0nb0y (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @09:08PM
          • Re:No way... by Lars T. (Score:1) Thursday December 06, @01:50AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No way... by aonaran (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:33PM
        • Re:No way... by oahazmatt (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @03:02PM
        • Re:No way... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by TheRaven64 (641858) on Wednesday December 05, @09:20PM (#21592707) Homepage Journal

          The thing is, I don't think that Apple is going to make much money off of this
          I have a 3G iPod (20GB). I have ripped every CD I own, and it's not quite full. In the four years since I got it, my music collection has grown by about 3GB (and I've been buying a lot more music recently than I used to since I started listening to Radio Paradise). In the same time, the iPod in the same market segment has increased in capacity by 60GB. When I can get a 24 or 32GB flash version, I will probably upgrade (moving parts are so 20th century). After that, I probably won't buy a portable music player for a very long time.

          On the other hand, I have around 50-100 DVDs (not sure exactly how many, some are seasons of TV shows in boxed sets with multiple disks). Assuming around 7GB per DVD, that's 350-700GB. Even reencoding as H.264, that's a few more generations of iPod before I have enough space. More to the point, you don't need to buy too many DVDs a year to make your current storage device obsolete.

          If iTunes let you rip DVDs in the same zero-click way it lets you rip CDs, I would probably have ripped a lot of my disks already, and would be a lot more interested in an iPod with video out (especially one that had support for 5.1 sound out via an external splitter). For $4, I'm not interested though. I suspect the aim of this is to get the functionality shipping in iTunes and then lose a class action lawsuit objecting to them charging.

          • Re:No way... by Per Wigren (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @10:55AM
            • Re:No way... by TheRaven64 (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @11:12AM
          • Re:No way... by jaw1959 (Score:1) Friday December 07, @08:21AM
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      • Re:No way... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by dc29A (636871) * on Wednesday December 05, @02:41PM (#21588905)
        I would pay 4$ extra for a DVD that would include the following bonuses:

        - One iPod and PSP version video of the movie along with one version in a standard codec.
        - One iPod and PSP version video of each episode (if it's something like a Futurama season DVD) along with one version in a standard codec.
        - Flac/Wav/lossless version of the songs, if it's a concert DVD.
        - No DRM on the ripped stuff.

        I am sick of installing 10 gazillion CD/DVD rippers and encoders just so I can watch my DVDs on my PSP and my DSM-320. 4$ for me would be no big deal to pay for that service.
        • Re:No way... by beemishboy (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @03:45PM
          • Re:No way... by DECS (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @05:02PM
            • Re:No way... by arminw (Score:3) Thursday December 06, @07:23AM
          • Re:No way... (Score:4, Informative)

            by norminator (784674) on Wednesday December 05, @05:09PM (#21590645)

            What happens with iPhone/iPod Touch resolutions versus iPod Classic/Nano? What happens if the form factor changes to accommodate different resolutions? What about my AppleTV that's hooked up to my high-def tv? What about audio options?

            All iPods [apple.com] have the same [apple.com] specs [apple.com] for the video they play... Presumably the iPod version of the video from the DVD would conform to the same standards as videos from the iTunes store. Your questions about various iPods and the AppleTV apply just as much to the iTunes video store as they would to these hypothetical DVDs, so I wouldn't think that your questions really pose a problem for this concept. Of course, the AppleTV is supposed to be HD-capable, so that could represent a good question here, but Apple doesn't give you a way to get HD content for it, other than some sample podcasts, at least that's all I've heard about it.

            Personally, I think it's dumb that they would sell this for a 20% price increase to "let" you have a "legal" way to get videos to your iPod. I use HandBrake all the time (which the author of TFA incorrectly identifies as violating the DMCA... it doesn't violate it because it doesn't have any way on its own to handle CSS decryption... you need an external program/driver/library for that), and in a decent world, it would be perfectly easy for anyone to use it to put their movies on their portable players. But these companies step in and act like they're freaking awesome, because they've given us a legal way to do this.

            If someone wants to pay $4 to make it easier to copy their DVDs, and they think the hassle is worth the price, then good for them. But I would hate to see people paying that extortion money because the content providers are pretending that it's the only way to get it legally.
        • Re:No way... by bartle (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:07PM
          • Re:No way... by TheRaven64 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @09:23PM
          • Re:No way... by Lars T. (Score:3) Thursday December 06, @02:08AM
        • Re:No way... by His Shadow (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @04:18PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No way... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @04:19PM
        • Re:No way... by sootman (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @05:03PM
          • Re:No way... by TheRaven64 (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @09:30PM
            • Re:No way... by sootman (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @09:45PM
              • Re:No way... by TheRaven64 (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @10:16AM
          • Re:No way... by Inoshiro (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @03:55AM
        • Re:No way... by noc007 (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @05:32PM
          • Re:No way... by Damarkus13 (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @08:00PM
        • Re:No way... by jedidiah (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @05:39PM
        • Re:No way... by Mazin07 (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @09:09PM
        • Re:No way... by noidentity (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @10:08PM
        • Use Handbrake by Dog135 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @10:47PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:No way... by Quiet_Desperation (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @02:44PM
        • Re:No way... by timmarhy (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @04:15PM
          • Re:No way... by Quiet_Desperation (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @11:15AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by purpledinoz (573045) on Wednesday December 05, @01:11PM (#21587623) Homepage
      It's saying Steve Jobs is trying to make customers pay more for the right to do something that's already a right.
      • But, you're missing something... by marklark (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @01:23PM
        • Re:But, you're missing something... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by gnasher719 (869701) on Wednesday December 05, @01:42PM (#21588065)

          Yes, customers have rights. Exercising them is up to the customer. I don't have to help them/you. If my help is desired, ask nicely. Payment would help.

          Apple is (apparently) offering to help. They would expect payment - natch.
          I still have about a hundred LPs. I have the right to record them on my Mac and turn them into AAC files. It's just an awful lot of work. If Apple sold the AAC files to me for $3 to $4 per LP, I would buy them immediately even though I legally don't need these files. (I spent 14.99 yesterday for a 320KBit MP3 download of two LPs that I own from the new Deutsche Grammophon shop).

          Now with DVDs and Handbrake it is slightly different; i wouldn't pay $3 to $4 to save me the work of turning a DVD into h.264 format, but some people would. I would probably willingly pay some lesser amount. What people need to realize is that even though it is your right, it is still work.
        • Re:But, you're missing something... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by empaler (130732) on Wednesday December 05, @01:56PM (#21588261) Journal
          It's more like a racket - they're suggesting they'll stop making it harder for you if you pay extra.
        • Re:But, you're missing something... by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:08PM
        • Yes, customers have rights. Exercising them is up to the customer. I don't have to help them/you. If my help is desired, ask nicely. Payment would help.

          Apple is (apparently) offering to help. They would expect payment - natch.


          Generally I agree with you, although it's slightly more complicated than that because of the DMCA.

          To use your 2nd amendment analogy (my thoughts on that subject being an entirely different story, but I'll go with it for the purposes of illustration), it would be like saying you have the right to bear arms, but then saying it's illegal to actually open the box that the weapon comes in because the copyright is owned by the box maker and they don't want you opening it. So then Apple comes in and says they have a legal box-opener that's sanctioned by the box maker, and only they can sell it to you.

          That would be pretty ridiculous, right? You can buy the weapon, you can legally use it, but you have to buy the means to open the package separately from some third party? That's what's going on here.

          I do agree completely that those offering a service should be compensated for it. I just bought an "MVI" DVD, for example, that includes the band in question's full audio CD, plus pre-ripped mp3's of the entire CD (and yes, real mp3's, on a Warner Music disc), plus 5 bonus tracks, plus about seven videos, plus extra junk like wallpaper, buddy icons, etc. I paid $2 extra over the standard audio CD for all that and I was happy to do it. I probably would have paid $2 extra just for the officially-ripped mp3's by themselves (only because I figure they've gotta have some better quality system to do it with than my LAME... although I'm probably wrong). Point being, it's an extra thing that I don't have to do, and I'm pretty tech savvy - I could do it myself pretty easily - but a lot of people couldn't, they don't even know how to import a CD in iTunes. So for them, they're paying for something that they wouldn't otherwise have at all.

          But to pay for the right to do something that you otherwise should have anyway is the problem here.
        • Re:But, you're missing something... by sm62704 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @03:15PM
        • Re:But, you're missing something... by SeaFox (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @03:47PM
      • Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by bfizzle (836992) on Wednesday December 05, @01:34PM (#21587963)
        Apple isn't trying to make money from the DVD sales. Their goal is to enable you to buy a DVD and move the content to their devices (iPod, iPhone, Apple TV). The MPAA has shut down every application that allows their users to do this, so Apple is trying a different approach. Going directly to the distributors and trying to find a way to allow Apple's customers to legal and easily (Applely) get content on to Apple's devices.

        If Apple is able to pull in a few extra fees for developing and licensing the technology then good for them I suppose. They are in the business of selling hardware remember. I'm sure they would sell more hardware if there was an easy and legal way to transfer content from original media, but there is not and Apple is dealing with it in a way they are good at.
        • Re:No way... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Froboz23 (690392) on Wednesday December 05, @01:51PM (#21588189)
          So their real motivation is helping the customer. The extra 4 dollars that Apple and the movie studios get is just a side-effect.

          I worry about this as a precedent. If we keep going down this route, eventually media purchases will be tied to a single device, using digital hardware IDs. I could see a day when you buy a movie, and only have "rights" to play it on one specific DVD player. You would have to provide the hardware ID of that DVD player at the time of purchase. It's no secret that content providers want you to repurchase the same movie a dozen times. One for home use, one for in your car, one for your portable player, one for your PSP, etc. DMCA makes this consumer nightmare possible.
          • Re:No way... by Jasin Natael (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @01:58PM
            • Re:No way... by Froboz23 (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @07:31PM
          • Re:No way... by Creepy (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @03:09PM
            • Re:No way... by bfizzle (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:43PM
            • Re:No way... by Froboz23 (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @05:01PM
          • Re:No way... by rastoboy29 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @05:44PM
          • Re:No way... by HumanEmulator (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @07:10PM
            • Re:No way... by Neffirithion (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @10:49PM
          • Re:No way... by m2943 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @07:22PM
          • Re:No way... by mjwx (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @08:33PM
          • Re:No way... by TheRaven64 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @09:39PM
            • Re:No way... by squidsuk (Score:1) Thursday December 06, @07:41AM
          • Re:No way... by LKM (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @08:54AM
          • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No way... by Bearhouse (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:12PM
        • Re:No way... by sterno (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:42PM
        • Re:No way... by Tom90deg (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @03:39PM
        • Re:No way... by TheVelvetFlamebait (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:33PM
        • Re:No way... by bfizzle (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:26PM
          • Re:No way... by jedidiah (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @05:49PM
            • Re:No way... by Hal_Porter (Score:1) Sunday December 16, @08:37AM
          • Re:No way... by arminw (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @08:19AM
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      • Re:No way... by yo_tuco (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @01:42PM
      • Re:No way... (Score:4, Funny)

        by RDW (41497) on Wednesday December 05, @01:54PM (#21588223)
        'It's saying Steve Jobs is trying to make customers pay more for the right to do something that's already a right.'

        And the concept is old news - it's really just an extension of this program:

        http://www.theonion.com/content/news/itunes_to_sell_your_home_videos [theonion.com]
      • Re:No way... by nasor (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @03:16PM
        • Re:No way... by Dillon2112 (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @03:32PM
        • Re:No way... by jedidiah (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @05:51PM
          • Re:No way... by nasor (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @09:21PM
            • Re:No way... by jedidiah (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @11:45AM
              • Re:No way... by nasor (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @12:52PM
      • Re:No way... by sorak (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @03:50PM
        • Re:No way... by sorak (Score:2) Friday December 07, @06:59AM
          • Re:No way... by sorak (Score:2) Sunday December 09, @09:22AM
            • Re:No way... by sorak (Score:2) Wednesday December 12, @11:47AM
              • Re:No way... by Hal_Porter (Score:1) Sunday December 16, @09:09AM
                • Re:No way... by sorak (Score:2) Monday December 17, @10:57AM
                  • Re:No way... by Hal_Porter (Score:1) Monday December 17, @12:01PM
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          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:No way... by Watts Martin (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @07:21PM
      • Not analogous to CDs by unassimilatible (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @03:35AM
      • Re:No way... by OneSeventeen (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @10:59AM
        • Re:No way... by rjstanford (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @05:16PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:No way... by McFortner (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:07PM
    • Re:No way... by timmarhy (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @04:11PM
    • Re:No way... by ThunkDifferent.com (Score:1) Thursday December 06, @03:17PM
  • Steve Jobs or the MPAA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Midnight Thunder (17205) on Wednesday December 05, @01:07PM (#21587551) Homepage Journal
    Is this Steve Jobs wanting to charge you or the MPAA? I suspect the latter.

    Luckily iTunes is not the only tool in town.
    • Re:Steve Jobs or the MPAA by morgan_greywolf (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @01:54PM
    • Re:Steve Jobs or the MPAA by fermion (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:32PM
    • Re:Steve Jobs or the MPAA by samkass (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @11:11PM
    • Re:Steve Jobs or the MPAA (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hedwards (940851) on Wednesday December 05, @01:25PM (#21587833)
      I may have misunderstood the article, but I thought that Steve was the one pitch the idea of putting the copy on the DVD. The encryption is going to be there whether or not anybody outside the MPAA likes it. I believe that Steve was mostly pushing the idea of putting an itunes compatible file on the disc as well.

      Even that sucks though, limiting the file to just an Apple format and charging far more for the file than it is reasonably worth it. And at that point, either the file is locked to one device or it renders the DRM on the disc completely useless. In either case it doesn't seem to benefit consumers much, if at all.

      Shouldn't the courts acknowledge that DRM isn't a protection measure if most people can break it easily. I mean at that point, what's the real difference between DRM and exotic file format?
    • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • For that price... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Wednesday December 05, @01:08PM (#21587575) Homepage

    I tell you, I *might* be persuaded to pay that price if it was some sort of continuous license w/unlimited downloads. For example, if I could take a DVD from my current collection, get it so if I lose the file I can always re-download from Apple, and if they release an HD version I get it for free, then that might be worth $4. Otherwise, screw you, I'll rip the DVD myself.

  • DVDs are encrypted (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Albanach (527650) on Wednesday December 05, @01:09PM (#21587577) Homepage
    While it may still be fair use to copy your DVD to another storage device, the trouble is the disk is normally encrypted. So if you live somewhere covered by the DMCA you may be entitled to move your movie to another format, but only if you have permission to circumvent the encryption for that purpose, hence Jobs can make $$$ selling you what is already yours.

    I guess if you don't like it, you shouldn't blame Jobs who's trying to exploit a commercial opportunity, but rather contact your lawmaker and explain in layman's terms why this is messed up.
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday December 05, @01:25PM (#21587823)
      I doubt very much Jobs is going to get any of the money. Look at it this way, is it to Steve's benefit for you to be able to rip your DVDs (which you cannot do legally or Joe Blow easily right now) to an iPod, or is it not?

      Clearly Steve ONLY makes money off you if you CAN rip your DVD to an iPod. So I suspect what he's saying is hey MPAA, if we pay you a small extra fee will you let us turn off your encryption so my customers can put your movies on my iPods?
      • Re:DVDs are encrypted (Score:5, Insightful)

        by adminstring (608310) on Wednesday December 05, @01:42PM (#21588069)
        I agree with you that Jobs probably isn't going to directly end up with the money. He will instead benefit from market lock-in.

        The way I read it, what he's saying is "hey MPAA, if our mutual customers pay you a small extra fee will you re-encrypt your movies in an iPod-compatible format so our mutual customers can put the movies on their iPods, but not on other devices which may not be compatible (and which are not sold by Apple.)

        The ideal situation for the consumer would be no DRM and no DMCA... too bad consumers (aka "we the people") don't have any influence in Washington or we wouldn't be in this situation.
      • Re:DVDs are encrypted by squiggleslash (Score:2) Thursday December 06, @08:08AM
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    • No, no, no by Overzeetop (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @01:30PM
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted by Nos. (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @01:41PM
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted by pknoll (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:24PM
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted by eeek77 (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @02:25PM
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted by Dan667 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @02:26PM
    • Re:DVDs are encrypted by oliphaunt (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @07:58PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by psydeshow (154300) on Wednesday December 05, @01:09PM (#21587585) Homepage
    This might explain why there is a "Deauthorize Media" option in the Features menu of Leopard's DVD Player.

  • by SailorSpork (1080153) on Wednesday December 05, @01:10PM (#21587599) Homepage
    What the /. post seems to miss is that most if not all DVD ripping programs use some form of deCSS, thus violating the DMCA. So if you can do the same to DVD as CD's without breaking the DMCA, you don't need Steve Job's premium DVD's.
  • But how much to watch on an AppleTV? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Alzheimers (467217) on Wednesday December 05, @01:11PM (#21587621)
    Seriously, aren't they just giving that thing away now? I guess Apple's push into the entertainment center hasn't been as strong as he'd hoped, so now it's time to poison the well by making the plastic disc industry suffer.

    They really need to make up their mind. Either they're selling us a license to their content (in which case the media should be irrelevant) OR they should be charging us for a physical product, in which case we can do whatever we want with that product including turning it into something we can use in ways they didn't expect.

    If I buy some boards and a nails from Home Depot, they don't get a piece of the action if I try to sell the cabinet I made.
  • Let's do it! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Aladrin (926209) on Wednesday December 05, @01:12PM (#21587641)
    I'm all for it, if they change the rules a bit:

    Charge me the extra $3-4 and leave off ALL DRM. That includes that macrovision crap and all of it. Don't require special software or hardware. Just don't put the DRM in place.
  • IMHO (Score:5, Insightful)

    by inimcus (554859) on Wednesday December 05, @01:18PM (#21587731)
    I really doubt that Jobs gives a crap about which way you view content, as long as Apple made the device your viewing it on. It's more likely a carrot to the studios to get them to let you watch normally purchased dvds on your *pod / *mac. I imagine that if it were up to him, and the rest of us, there wouldn't be any premium.
    • Re:IMHO by ceoyoyo (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @01:28PM
      • Re:IMHO by HTH NE1 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:30PM
    • Jobs has content by snuf23 (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @09:59PM
  • This reminds me.... (Score:4, Informative)

    by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Wednesday December 05, @01:21PM (#21587777)
    ... I need to buy Slysoft's ripping software: http://www.slysoft.com/ [slysoft.com]. Y'all can take your premium DVDs and shove it. I'd rather pay someone more for tools to protect my property than pay less in extortion money.
  • Um.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by grasshoppa (657393) <skennedy.tpno-co@org> on Wednesday December 05, @01:22PM (#21587789) Homepage
    Who wants to tell them we've been doing this for years already?

    MythDVD
    • Re:Um.... by His Shadow (Score:1) Wednesday December 05, @01:41PM
      • Re:Um.... by Steve525 (Score:3) Wednesday December 05, @02:21PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • A Non-Starter (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Apple Acolyte (517892) on Wednesday December 05, @01:26PM (#21587835)
    Jobs usually gets things right, but if this report is true Jobs is pursuing a nonstarter. He wants to make it easier for people to put their DVD collections in iTunes, but there are so many problems with this proposed solution it's doomed to failure. 1) Anyone who wants to time-shift their DVD collection already does it, albeit to the chagrin of the MPAA; 2) The MPAA would never go for any format that is devoid of some copy protection; 3) The MPAA doesn't want to strengthen Apple any more than it currently is; 4) This compromise would only really mean something if it were applied to HD-DVD and Blu-ray, which we know will never happen.
  • What do you Want to Pay? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Greyfox (87712) on Wednesday December 05, @01:30PM (#21587897) Homepage
    You could learn how to use the various Open Source utilities to re-encode the DVD to the format the iPod uses. This process is not trivial if you've never done it before but once you get it all figured out it flows pretty smoothly. I think most fairly technical people could probably figure it all out and get it scripted within a day or two. There is some additional processing overhead involved, but if you want to do it for free it's most likely do-able.

    Or you could pay someone to figure it all for you (Buy purchasing commercial software that has a nice GUI)

    Or you could watch DvDs on your TV and not your iPod.

    Which of these things is worth less than the $4 it takes to Steve Jobs every time? For most people I'm thinking option 3 will be the only one. A smaller group might opt for the commercial software that does the same thing. Very few people will make the effort to get it all set up with open source tools or to wait the length of time it takes to reencode all the mpeg files. I think that most people (who don't read slashdot) will be happy to pay Steve Jobs the $4. I think Steve knows that, too.

  • "supposedly", "apparently" (Score:5, Insightful)

    Steve Jobs has supposedly been pitching the idea
    Steve Jobs apparently

    I know this might be a radical departure for Slashdot editors, but have you ever considered only linking to articles that have, I don't know, actual facts? Instead of rumor and innuendo to drive Apple bashing for Page Hits.

    Also, did you hear that rumor about ScuttleMonkey? Supposedly he likes to have sex with washing machines. Apparently it's something he does quite a lot...

  • Reasoning (Score:2)

    by mkiwi (585287) on Wednesday December 05, @01:30PM (#21587905)
    Steve probably wants to be able to let users who purchase iTunes videos to put them on DVD's for viewing on TV.
    That seems like a better argument than releasing an iTunes compatible version on their DVD's- a thing that would take up more space (the movies are not tiny) on the DVD. This would diminish the amount of content movie studios could add on their own.
    Simply put, it's in Jobs' best interest to pry away at the DRM that disables the functionality he wants.
  • by Sockatume (732728) on Wednesday December 05, @01:35PM (#21587977) Homepage
    If I buy a CD, in my view as a customer, I'm buying that disc and therefore I can use its contents any way I choose which does not infringe upon the publisher's copyright. I don't see an EULA stuck on the front of the case, so I'm clearly not being licenced the non-exclusive transferrable right to listen to the disk in up to three (3) CD players or whatever. When I buy a DVD, I expect that I should be able to stick the contents on a portable video player that doesn't have a DVD drive. I don't want to pay again for the ability to play the same damn thing on a different device, be it through iTunes or as a premium on the disc. However all the usage restrictions (which pirates so effortlessly bypass) mean I have to go and download the show off bittorrent to do that. The result? I've just uploaded copies of the video to people who are just pirating the film. So all that's been achieved is that they've caused a legitimate customer to become a small-scale pirate. Sorry, this is a bit of a rant. I appear to have a head cold.
  • Hey, buddy! (Score:3, Funny)

    by operagost (62405) on Wednesday December 05, @01:39PM (#21588037) Homepage Journal
    Those black turtlenecks aren't free, you know!
  • Thaks Steve! (Score:2)

    by rindeee (530084) on Wednesday December 05, @01:46PM (#21588109)
    But I think I'll just keep using Handbrake. It won't just let me rip my DVDs to my iPod, but also to my PSP, my computer, my , etc. I'm quite happy with it and needn't pay anyone $4.
  • by KC7GR (473279) on Wednesday December 05, @01:47PM (#21588125) Homepage Journal
    SlySoft. [slysoft.com]

    And I will add that a few of my studio-pressed and paid-for DVDs are beginning to show signs of deterioration. I'm not paying for another copy when I can recover the original disc's file, repair it in the process, and re-burn it (as I should be able to do under Fair Use) to a replacement disc.

    Keep the peace(es).

  • Or is this just a example of how poorly implemented Firehose is? There is not one bit of information that could be factually backed up in the linked article. They wont even say Jobs is outright doing it (saying apparently or suspected)

    Given Jobs recent letters to the media, I highly doubt this is true at all, and strongly suspect this is a bullshit article made to play right into the fears people have here. There are a number of media entities who dont like Jobs, and I would not be shocked that the same groups suing grandmothers, would also like to see Jobs tarnished for making them look like fools to the public.

    Until I see Jobs outright say it, this is bullshit, and anyone who is taking this to be fact is a gullible fool. There is not one shred of factual basis anywhere in the blurb.

  • Which Steve? (Score:2)

    by gEvil (beta) (945888) on Wednesday December 05, @01:49PM (#21588155) Homepage
    So which Steve is this? Is it Apple Steve Jobs, or Disney/Pixar Steve Jobs?
  • Reality check? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rueger (210566) on Wednesday December 05, @01:58PM (#21588291) Homepage
    Lord, oh Lord, the Apple apologists are out in force. Surely Jesus Jobs would never do anything that would lower his saintly profile to less than those of Mother Teresa and Ghandi!

    Get real folks. If Apple pulls another $4 out of your pocket of course they're taking a cut. What are we? School children?

    And Poor Saint Jobs, forced by the big bad media companies into doing this? C'mon! Jobs sat down with them and together they cut a deal that will hopefully see both of them make bigger profits. It's highly unlikely that Jobs is giving away the farm with no benefit to Apple shareholders. To suggest otherwise is incredibly naïve.
  • Maybe I'll pay (Score:2, Informative)

    by anneha (1051480) on Wednesday December 05, @02:01PM (#21588333)
    But only if they change that retarded name - "Space-shifting"? Back in the day, we used to call it "moving files".
  • Apple miscalculation (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DysenteryInTheRanks (902824) on Wednesday December 05, @02:01PM (#21588337) Homepage
    Apple makes some wonderful products, but people forget the company has a string of failures alongside its string of successes. Not that there's anything wrong with this, you have to fail to succeed, even if you're Steve Jobs, but iTunes video is best understood in the context of failure, IMHO.

    There's just very little reason to buy video from Apple at this time. DVD players are overwhelmingly cheap, and DVDs are cheap and easy to buy OR RENT. Netflix, Blockbuster, Wal Mart, Target etc etc are all too happy to put DVDs in your hands. They are making loads of money on them, as are the studios, the only people not cashing in are the writers (see: WGA strike).

    The primitive state of broadband means downloads are not pressuring the industry, there is piracy but it's just not like it was for music in the Napster days. At that time you could literally get virtually any song on your hard drive within a few minutes. For video, you need to figure out BitTorrent, then wait wait wait for the download. Or you need to set up iTunes and then wait wait wait for the download.

    THEN you have to get your TV hooked up to your computer, and then tolerate visibly worse quality. This was not the case with MP3s, they sounded just as good as CDs to most people, despite the specs, and people already had headphones to plug in to their computers, or a miniplug to hook up to the stereo cost $5 at Radio Shack.

    Amid this backdrop, Apple is trying to make a market for video downloads. But the effort is futile until broadband speeds get up closer to FTTP (fiber) levels. Even then, the studios probably won't hand Apple a new market to dominate like they did last time. Wired recently quoted one studio head who said he gave in to Jobs on iTunes because Jobs pointed out that Mac's 5 percent market share mitigated the risk -- if the studio's worst nightmares came true, the impact would still be minor. No one is going to be fooled this time around into thinking Jobs just wants to make an innocent little side service for Mac users. You can bet a Google or Netflix is going to get licensing parity (which did not happen with iTunes).
  • Whats the problem (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 05, @02:20PM (#21588615)
    The DVD's that I buy or hire from netflix work fine in the DVD player in the bedroom, the DVD player in the kiving room, the one downstairs, and both of our PC's, If we had a portable DVD player or one in the back of the car I'm sure they would work there too.

    I don't want to watch movies on a cellphone - the screen is too small.
  • by toledobythesea (887789) on Wednesday December 05, @02:20PM (#21588619)
    I bought a Virgin cellphone, thought it might be useful to get the more expensive one that has a camera. Apparently, I have to pay fifty cents to upload MY photo that I took with MY camera-phone to MY computer using MY wireless connection. Can't return it now, hoping the police will pay my uploading charges if I ever capture a bank robbery in progress.
  • by Telephone Sanitizer (989116) on Wednesday December 05, @02:21PM (#21588637)
    In basic economics classes, they teach that when two items are bundled the price of the two will tend to average toward the price most suited to the item of greater demand.

    So, slap a $4 dollar download code onto a $12 dollar DVD and while you might get away with a $16 dollar price for a brief time with strong advertising, it won't be long before the thing sells for $12 dollars again.

    Nobody bundles a strongly-demanded product with another strongly-demanded product. If both were strongly-demanded then they'd be sold separately to maximize profit. Consumers see the raised price as nothing more than a price hike on the one item that they would have bought, won't pay the increased price and retailers will have to lower the price to move the bundle off their shelves.

    Steve Jobs is not a fool. He has people around to remind him of these things. If Jobs is pushing bundled downloads, it's as a promotional bonus and not a premium.
  • by foxtrot (14140) on Wednesday December 05, @02:24PM (#21588687)
    I'm sorry, I know, you'd think I'd know better by now, but I read the article.

    And it basically says Jobs likes the idea of a company selling a "premium" version of a DVD that includes an iTunes download of the same movie. And so TechDirt spins it as "the DMCA at work"-- which is a reasonable explanation, given that technically a tool like Handbrake _is_ illegal.

    (Funny, of course, that nobody wants to take the folks who make Handbrake to court yet...)

    It would've been so easy for Apple to spin it the other way-- heck, spin's what they're good at. "You can pop the disc in your computer and let it grind for a few hours, or you can buy the premium version that comes with the iTunes download of the thing for you. We've handled all the details for you, so you don't have to know what an h.264 is or what resolution your iPod can handle"

  • Won't be an issue (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ToasterTester (95180) on Wednesday December 05, @02:34PM (#21588811)
    This wouldn't be an issue or topic if people actually just did space-shifting or only made a copy a couple actual friends. The record companies tolerate that. But people started giving copies out to the whole world, while acting all innocent as claiming they just want to space-shift or archive is why prices have never dropped, why so much music is formula crap, and so on. People like to point to record companies and scream they are greedy, but they are reacting to what the public is doing to them. It's a vicious circle.

    I would say all this has led to people wanting quantities of music and not quality music. In past when everyone paid for music you listened hard to who you were going to spend your money on. Record companies had to try their best to put out good music so get your money. Now a days people just want to say "I have 10,000 downloads of stuff". How much of that do you actually listen to versus just occupies space on a hard drive and is all that really stuff worth listening to??? I only bring this up because the war between the downloaders and RIAA has many bad side effects and a boatload of crap music is one of those side effects.
  • No thanks (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Alsee (515537) on Wednesday December 05, @02:55PM (#21589081) Homepage
    an extra fee for the privilege of transferring your legally-purchased DVD to a different device.

    No thanks. You can keep your offer and I can keep my "extra fee". I'll just decrypt my DVD myself thankyouverymuch.

    That is, I would... if I ever.... you know... bought a DVD in the first place. EVER. The fact that I don't own any DVDs might have something to do with the fact that.... you know... being annoyed that I would have to bother decrypting my DVD for it to be legitimate and properly usable.

    I've never needed to decrypt a VCR tape. I've never needed to decrypt cd. I've never needed to decrypt an audio cassette tape. I've never needed to decrypt a goddamn book or anything else. I don't think it's exactly me being the one doing something new and bizarre and unreasonable here. Someone wants to sell me encrypted crap? And after I bought it, they expect me not to decrypt it?
    Fuck. That.
    Fuck. You.
    Not. One. Mother. Fucking. Dollar.
    And if for some reason I do buy something from you, I'm fucking decrypting it.
    Want to imprison me under the DMCA? Well that would be interesting. And novel.
    After a decade of the DMCA, I would be the first person convicted under it. Ever.

    I offer a compromise. Yeah I know my suggestion is is a bit.... EXTREMIST here... but heay, just for shits and giggles I'm going to make my extremist suggestion anyway. And my radical extremist suggestion is... how about good old traditional copyright law. How about we don't criminalize noninfringing people. You know... good old copyright law before the DMCA crap criminalizing innocent noninfringing people, before the DMCA crap criminalizing legitimate valuable noninfringing products.

    Yeah, I know. That makes me freak. It makes me an anarchist. It means I want to destroy everything and let people run around murdering and raping each other in the streets. Because I suggested good old traditional copyright law like we've had for over 200 years. I know, extremist and insane. My bad here.

    I must repent my radical sins. I'll run out immediately and mail the movie studios each a big fat check... to make up for all of the DVD's that I never ever ever bought from them. I've been such a monster... it's so bad that I've completely lost count of how many DVD's I didn't buy.

    -
    • Re:No thanks by MoneyT (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @04:58PM
      • Re:No thanks by Alsee (Score:2) Wednesday December 05, @08:15PM
  • by CodeBuster (516420) on Wednesday December 05, @03:00PM (#21589143)
    This proposal illustrates clearly one of the main points that opponents of DRM have long made against DRM and that is that DRM allows the creators or owners of the work thus protected to seize extra rights for themselves or even those rights which have classically belonged to the consumer (i.e. fair use). Of course, the reason for doing this is so that the creator or owner can SELL that "privilege" back to the consumer when in fact that "privilege" is a right which belongs to the consumer and cannot be sold back to them because it was theirs in the first place.

    Now, it may be the case that through DRM they have made it difficult to exercise my rights without paying them (i.e. I have to break the DRM to enable my rights), but that brings up another problem with DRM and specifically the DMCA. It is unlawful (technically) to break the DRM (aka access protection mechanism) even if I break it for the purpose of re-enabling my rights to time or format shift or for fair use. As the law is currently written it is unlawful to break the DRM no matter what the intent and that is wrong. The DMCA needs to be changed so that safe harbors for breaking the access protection mechanism are created when the consumer is re-enabling RIGHTS that the creator or owner has seized improperly via DRM (aka the access protection mechanism).
  • Steve Jobs (Score:2)

    by Andrewkov (140579) on Wednesday December 05, @03:09PM (#21589239)
    That Steve Jobs! Charging a premium for what most consider "normal". Kinda sounds like the whole Apple philosophy! :)
  • The only mentions of Jobs or Apple in the NYT article are: "Disney, of which Steve Jobs is a director and large shareholder, sells movies through the iTunes Store, and the other major studios don't. The issue has been that the studios want to charge more money for downloads than Mr. Jobs thinks they are worth." and "Apple has relented and has agreed to a higher wholesale price for movies."

    The following paragraph continues, "More interestingly perhaps, the studios are hoping to create "premium" versions of DVDs that include a copy of the movie that can easily be put on an iPod (and presumably a laptop with iTunes or an Apple TV). Fox has tried this already, with a version of "Die Hard 4 that includes a digital copy. Mr. Greenfield writes that this version costs $3 or $4 more than an ordinary DVD."

    This paragraph doesn't refer to Jobs at all, but rather to a DVD that Fox released.

    I'm missing the connection between Apple and Fox that Tim Lee's seeing. Can someone explain where this is hiding?
  • An analogy. (Score:2, Funny)

    by jsiren (886858) on Wednesday December 05, @03:21PM (#21589371)
    (The following is satire, a form of humor. No actual persons have been or will be punched as a result of this post.)

    I heard the law says you have the right not to be punched. So if you pay me $4, I won't punch you. If you want me not to punch you again, it's another $4.

    Extortion? What's that?

  • by Trintech (1137007) on Wednesday December 05, @03:26PM (#21589433)
    Let me say first that I am an Apple fanboy and stockholder but I don't have any problem bashing apple when they deserve it.

    What I see in this move by Apple is trying to further get rid of DRM. Remember when they let EMI charge more for songs on iTunes if they were DRM free? I think they are trying to do the same thing with the movie industry now. Yes, everyone has their theories about Apple liking fairplay because it ties the music in their store to the iPod exclusively but I think fairplay causes just as many headaches for Apple as it does consumers because they have to keep track of all these keys, # of times burned, etc.

    Yes, consumers have the right to copy dvds but obviously there is still some legal issue with it because DVDShrink has been pummeled out of public existence. If Apple can make DRM DVDs free for an extra price, its just one more step towards removing DRM, Macrovision, etc from all DVDs. Just take a look at whats happening to online music right now. The new online stores (such as Amazon) will only sell DRM free MP3s.

    I think this just the first step towards the same change in the movie industry and it just happened to be Apple who took it, which really makes sense. The more crap we can put on iPods easily, the more we will want/use them.
  • Flip4Mac DriveIn (Score:2)

    by aftk2 (556992) on Wednesday December 05, @03:33PM (#21589521) Homepage Journal
    Why wouldn't they license something like this, and include it in iTunes?

    Flip4Mac DriveIn [flip4mac.com]

    "Drive-in is an innovative application that allows you to store your personal DVD movie library on your Mac. It is now available as a public beta.

    Using Drive-in you can create an image of a DVD disc on your laptop or home entertainment system. The image preserves the quality, navigation and special features of the original DVD and can be played using Apple's DVD Player or Front Row."
  • levy (Score:2)

    by grumpyman (849537) on Wednesday December 05, @03:33PM (#21589523)
    They already did that in Canada with the government charging the media levy.
  • by monkey_dongle (1002300) on Wednesday December 05, @03:46PM (#21589643)
    This sounds strikingly familar to Apple's recent obnoxious attempt to charge people for ringtones from music they alreay purchased.

    DRM=bad for consumers
    DMCA=really bad for consumers
    Blu-Ray/Sony/Fox/Apple=super-duper bad for consumers
  • apple fanboys ho! (Score:1)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Wednesday December 05, @04:09PM (#21589927)
    Quickly, some has used facts to discredit apple, use some of your patented apple style logic to defend steve's honor!

    seriously though, why the hell is he going in this direction after introducing unlocked itunes?

  • $4 discount (Score:2)

    by mattwarden (699984) on Wednesday December 05, @05:16PM (#21590741) Homepage
    Actually, he is offering a $4 discount on DVDs if you are willing to give up this fair use right.

    Oh, right, that's the same thing.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by Bones3D_mac (324952) on Wednesday December 05, @07:48PM (#21592037)
    Considering NBC just scored a huge blow against Apple by removing their content from iTunes to an iPod-proof system, it would not surprise me if Apple is looking into such an option to ensure Macintosh/iPod compatibility remains available for this kind of content.

    By proposing such a system and pioneering it themselves, Apple could become the first computer manufacturer to offer a user-friendly, MPAA-blessed dvd ripping solution that functions almost identically to the CD ripping tools in iTunes. Also, by creating a product designed specifically for ripping by the end user, it puts the "fair use" argument for ripping traditional dvds into question, as users shouldn't need to play shadow games to move protected video to an alternate device, when a readily-available, legally-rippable source is already available for purchase by the end user.
  • Handbrake (Score:1)

    by bamcclus (920020) on Wednesday December 05, @08:03PM (#21592165)
    Why not just use Handbrake? An awesome DVD to MPEG-4 converter for Mac, Windows, and Linux. http://handbrake.m0k.org/ [m0k.org] Watch him put the Apple logo on this open source software.
  • by lowerlogic (978369) on Wednesday December 05, @08:10PM (#21592207)
    Imagine if books had the same restrictions, and you had to repurchase the book for every different place you wanted to read it in. The DRM on DVDs is akin to saying the reader is only allowed to read the book while sitting on one of their approved chairs in an approved room with approved lighting conditions wearing their approved reading glasses, and anything else is a violation of the DMCA.
  • but the DMCA outlaws the removal of DRM.

    I believe that removing DRM to exercise your fair rights *is* a Right.

    The Supreme Court has yet to weigh in on the issue.
  • Free Idea (Score:1)

    by DJDuck (1172519) on Wednesday December 05, @10:17PM (#21593135)
    Rather than do something extra for Steve hows this for an idea.

    Content providers just provide a licence to Apple and others to allow their space shifting software to rip the content to the proprietry device? It can be a one off licence for each disc. So I pay $1 to Steve and Co, which they pass on to the content provider (taking a small cut to cover costs), and then iTunes or other software allows me to decode a device specific copy of the content from the original disc.

    Saves content providers modifying manufacturing
    No lock in to Apple etc
    No requiement for massive bandwidth etc (even work on dial up)
    Still requires purchase of original so the "artist" is being paid
    Would provide a easy way to do this for Joe Sixpack as the software would be provided by the hardware vendor and thus be an integrated process.

    Take it, use it, but don't Patent it as I have prior art here.
  • For Apple, this is about hardware (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LKM (227954) on Thursday December 06, @08:47AM (#21596121) Homepage
    The iPod was successfull because it's legal for Apple to offer a way to move CDs on an iPod. The same is not the case with movies, but now that iPods, iPhones and the AppleTV support movies, Apple needs to find a way to make it legal.

    This is probably the only way they can get the content providers to agree: Show them the money carrot. Make it legal for your customers to move movies to different media, and you'll get money. I think it's not so bad; everyone wins:

    1. People who buy DVDs get an easy, legal way to move their movies to their iPhones, iPods and whatnot (and no, handbrake does not fit that bill)
    2. Media owners get more money
    3. Apple gets a market for the AppleTV, which was a failure so far, and a way for users to fill their movie-capable players
  • Good Discussion (Score:2)

    by Swift2001 (874553) on Thursday December 06, @03:05PM (#21602147)
    I think that some people here have used the opportunity given to us by the usual Apple-bashing rumormongers -- is Steve Jobs REALLY acting in a way to make profits for Apple, Inc.? The bastard! -- to consider what should become of video releases of movies in the digital age. Right now, if you want a DVD, you buy a DVD. It is copy-protected. You can download a Windows-only DRMed version, but why bother? You're not buying the DVD. Instead, how about this model? An H.264 "low-def" file to play on your device, or your computer, or streaming from your computer to your TV. What if you could then upgrade that copy to DVD resolution, with extras and so on, for $4.00, and then legally burn that overnight download to your DVD? Not a bad model, possibly.

    If you start at the other end, of course, and buy a full-priced DVD, then I believe you should have the same right to rip and transcode that you have with a CD. If I was a smart studio head, and I'm not sure there are any of those, I'd sell my DVDs with a pre-ripped, optimized h.264 version right on the disk, saving the consumer the time of doing it himself.
  • by Tyrannosaurs (1148605) on Friday December 07, @08:51AM (#21611461)
    Don't like it, don't buy it...

    And you're done.

    Like copy protection on CDs and DRM on iTunes if it sucks that bad the market will kill it.

    I'm not saying the market is perfect but it works well enough to cut the knackers off the real dumb stuff.
  • this is stupid (Score:1)

    by rice_burners_suck (243660) on Monday December 10, @02:26AM (#21638965) Journal
    There should be a law that not only forbids the bullshit that makes it inconvenient to copy DVDs, but furthermore there should be a law that anyone who copies a movie for any reason is entitled, by filling out a simple web form on the web, to have the MPAA, RIAA, and Microsoft pay Steve Jobs (personally) triple the cost of the DVD media onto which they copy the movie. There should be no need for proof. Whatever people fill in on the honor system will be considered prima facie evidence in a court of law. In other words, you could simply log onto the website and fill in that you copied a trillion movies last night, at a cost of a billion dollars per DVD disc, and the MPAA, RIAA, and Microsoft would instantly, by law, each owe Steve Jobs whatever three times a trillion times a billion equals (which would appear on a sheet of paper as a three with a whole shitload of zeroes after it) in United States dollars. Furthermore, the law would call for all of Darl's possessions to be confiscated and offered as a reward to the "pirst-foster" who enters a number larger than a googolplex on this website. The law should furthermore state that the debt is collectable immediately upon the data being entered into the system, with no grace period allowed between the instant the "submit" button is clicked and the moment payment must reach Jobs' bank account, and that failure by any of the three organizations to pay in full and on time shall constitute breach of the law by all three organizations and that said breach entitles RMS to confiscate everything those three organizations have and donate it all to Linus, whereupon Linus would be required by law to accept this donation and apply it towards the technical improvement of Linux. What? Didn't you read the subject line? It said this is stupid. But no, you didn't believe it, you stupid idiot. You had to read the whole thing and see that it's totally, completely, and in all other ways retarded beyond description. And so are you, because obviously you have nothing better to do than read this shit. (I, on the other hand, have MUCH better things to do than write this shit, but we'll ignore that for now and just keep insulting you.)
  • Either provide a link to some actual document connecting Apple to this scheme of FOX's, or take out the speculation (based on nothing but other speculation) about a connection between Jobs and FOX.
  • Re:convenience (Score:2)

    by 0123456 (636235) on Wednesday December 05, @01:28PM (#21587889)
    "Having an iPod-optimized version of the movie available on the DVD is an added value."

    Not when it's wasting a gigabyte of space that is of no use to anyone who doesn't have an iPod. I'd rather have better picture quality with all those extra bits, or more extras.

    In any case, DVD 'copy protection' is history; why charge people more for something they can already do for free?
  • Re:convenience (Score:2)

    by Steve525 (236741) on Wednesday December 05, @01:50PM (#21588165)
    It's not always a trivial matter to rip a DVD and transcode it efficiently for an iPod.

    If it wasn't for DMCA there would be plenty of commercial software out there that would do this, (just like there are plenty of polished products for ripping CDs). Because DVD ripping software is effectively illegal, no company is going to invest $$ into writing a polished piece of software. The best we get are home-brew solutions, and half-assed products both of which get sued out of existence (or at least out of the US) if they begin to look halfway decent.

    The market for the $4 iPod version of movie only exists because the DMCA prevents a competing product from existing.

    If it wasn't for Jobs (and Apple) being in bed with the movie industry, I'd hope that they would take Hollywood on and make such a piece of software. Most people are comfortable with the idea that you can copy a CD to portable device, so it would take quite a PR job for Hollywood to convince people that DVDs should somehow be different.
  • by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Wednesday December 05, @03:11PM (#21589261)

    I can't see how Steve's interests and my consumer interests don't align on this one.

    I can. He wants to charge you extra for a right you already have. That's not aligning with my own personal interests.

  • Re:convenience (Score:1)

    by Worminater (600129) <`ude.orobnide' `ta' `m788291c'> on Wednesday December 05, @03:22PM (#21589387)
    It's a Bose Wave radio, of course it's going to have shitty sound.
  • Re:convenience (Score:1)

    by LostCauz (121686) on Wednesday December 05, @03:43PM (#21589615)
    It's more like buying any good music and playing it on a Bose Wave Radio...but that might be what you meant. Not sure.
  • it's in Steve's interest to do away with DMCA restrictions on DVDs, as it only makes iPods look better to consumers as the realm of movies available for them increases.

    ummm. apple sells content too. it's in their interest to drive you to the apple store to purchase your content, not buy it somewhere else and rip it onto your ipod. as long as you can get it from iTMS apple is happy.

    the ipod is not successful because it is the best, most full featured player out there. rather, it's the superb integration with iTMS and iTunes.
  • 16 replies beneath your current threshold.