NBC Universal Drops iTunes 691
An anonymous reader writes "NBC Universal has cancelled its iTunes contract and will withdraw the television shows it currently offers through the service in December, when the current contract expires. This is a huge blow for the service, as NBC is the controlling interest in Apple customer-friendly intellectual properties like The Office, Battlestar Galactica, My Name is Earl and Heroes. From the article: 'The decision to withdraw the content follows disagreements between the two firms. Apple is thought to have rejected NBC's demands for more restrictive DRM and the introduction of flexible pricing. Apple was informed of NBC Universal's decision late last night. The report states that neither Apple nor NBC Universal would comment on the matter, but said they continue to talk, "free of acrimony".'" Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, watching it for free over-the-air?
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In other news man who can not watch a TV show does NOT die of cancer.....
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Interesting)
What about the rest of the NBC lineup?
The option everyone's forgetting (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course there are, but they all revolve around NBC wanting more money and more control over how, where and when you can watch their shows.
I bought every season available of Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, The Office, and My Name is Earl on iTunes. I like the shows, but apparently, that's not good enough. Apparently, NBC wants me to be so desperate to watch the shows that I would support their outright greed.
Well I for one am not a slave to my television. Unless NBC shapes up and gives me the opportunity to pay a reasonable price for seeing their shows in a timely manner and in a fashion that I wish, I guess I won't be watching them any more. Oh well, I guess that frees up more time that I can use for other interesting things.
These networks and media companies just kill me. They act like if they only provide one expensive and inconvenient legal avenue for me to watch their shows, I'll just have to suck it up because they say so. Then you have the people like the submitter who imply that they'll just resort to illegal avenues to watch the show.
Everyone seems to be forgetting option number three, the option I'll be choosing should NBC keep this silliness up: Simply don't watch the shows. Frankly, it looks to me like that is NBC's ultimate goal, and if that's the case, I'm happy to oblige.
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"Apparently, NBC wants me to be so desperate to watch the shows that I would support their outright greed."
I'm judging you never watched the movie Wall Street... greed is good.
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This is wrong. NBC gets essentially 100% of their money from advertisers. Broadcasting stuff for free over the airwaves simply does not spontaneously generate money.
NBC attempts to make shows that people want to watch for pride/personal reasons, and by having popular shows, they can then charge extra for advertising on those shows.
I would assume that the iTunes downlo
Re:The option everyone's forgetting (Score:4, Insightful)
1. They want it freakin' now, no waiting, not even for a few days (rules out DVD)
2. No ads killing the flow/suspense/illusion of the show (fuck you TV!)
3. Straight to their TV (AppleTV, xBox, WMC, HTPC, MythTV, etc)
iTunes is 2.5/3 (because of the DRM), DVD 1/3, TV 1/3...
Look what iTunes did to music, maybe it could do the same to TV series. I'd love for a production company to release their TV series directly to iTunes, no TV... (blu-ray/HD-DVD would be nice though, for rewatching it
aw screw it, rant off!
AMEN! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:The option everyone's forgetting (Score:5, Insightful)
Half hour show - 8 minutes of commercials - 4.8 million dollars. We'll double that for the hour shows.
2 million geeks...$1.99 each...even if they only get half of that they're increasing their revenue by 10 or 20%. The only way this could be bad for them is if their advertising revenue goes down at the same time (due to lower ratings).
Anyway, the most likely explanation of all of this isn't that it isn't worthwhile, it's that they've got their own distribution system coming down the pipe.
Re:The option everyone's forgetting (Score:5, Funny)
I bought every season available of Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, The Office, and My Name is Earl on iTunes.
Well I for one am not a slave to my television.
Ummm....
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Retail price would increase to $4.99 per episode (Score:5, Informative)
According to Ars [arstechnica.com], the issue is that they want you to pay more. A LOT more. To quote, "Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99."
So how does $5 a pop sound? At that rate, a typical series would cost over $100 purchased digitally, as opposed to buying the DVDs for $30-$50.
One thing's for sure, if hulu has this kind of idiotic pricing structure, then it's just SURE to be a success...
Re:The option everyone's forgetting (Score:4, Informative)
Can't wait to see NBC's online sales dry up.
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iTunes doesn't have commercials.
Odd that some think Apple monopolies are OK (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me offer a variation on that. Buy them legally from a different online store. Why is it that only Apple can offer such products, why is a defacto monopoly by Apple OK? If NBC doesn't like Apple's terms they should backout, contract with a competitor who they can come to terms with, or start their own.
Personally I see history repeating itself. Apple pioneers something, validates the product or business model, develops
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Change this from a TV show to a software package released under the GPL, would we be as self righteous about violating the licensing.
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Sorry, no. The GPL's terms are binding because there's LICENSE file in the download telling you what your rights are WTG redistribution. I've neve
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My suburban HOA won't allow for an antenna that can tune in your signal well enough.
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There are other businesses to support with your attention. That's my point. But breaking the US law (no matter how unfair the law is, and assuming you're in the US) shouldn't be the alternative. It isn't working. It's not a form of civil disobedience that seems to have the effect we need in order to call attention to unfair/unjust law.
W
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
We are AMERICANS, not sheep.
I get the show "legitmately". I still like to download it due to the fact that DirectTV over compresses it's network channels.
In the end, it boils down to wanting to arrest people for eating their egg from the wrong end.
When eggs run out, eat bacon! (Score:3, Funny)
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Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact our society is becoming more and more fascist. Everybody breaks laws all the time, it simply cannot be avoided. Having citizens always subject to arrest for some reason or other is one of the tools of a fascist regime.
This country would be a much sadder place if everybody who found laws offensive just sucked it up. From the founding fathers to slavery, prohibition, equal rights - I feel I owe a debt of gratitude to countless people courageous enough to break unfair laws.
I don't mean to glamorize copyright battles by comparing them to obviously greater things, but I guess now that our basic rights have been established (not that we can be complacent, fascism is not far away) we can shift our fights to luxuries.
You can obey our media overlords and bought-and-sold legislature all you want, but please don't claim a moral high ground over someone who does not.
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In your reply to someone who advocated simply ignoring unjust laws you said
You then proceed to compare these ideas to a child molesters.
This certainly seems like you are placing yourself on a pedestal and judgin
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Why not? It's not exactly murder or rape, now is it? There are so, so many laws on the books bought and paid for by the rich, for the benefit of the rich. I just don't feel compelled to obey them.
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Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Replace "get to" with "have to". As the GP pointed out, we are all being systematically criminalized. You need to think for yourself now... try it.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, that's worked real well for the proponents of marijuana legalization. AFAIK, I have one life --- one. I'm not going to waste it in vain trying to change laws drawn up by millionaires. I actually don't have a problem with copyright. I do have a problem with it being extended until past the end of time, and with DRM and the DMCA, etc. These sons of bitches go too far. And who benefits? The citizenry? Of course not. Now, the ultimate seat of authority in the U.S. is we the people not we the handful of privileged wealthy with access to the higher levels of lawmaking machinery. It would appear that we the people want some changes.
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Now where the hell do you get that idea? From the shrill minority who populate Slashdot, the relatively small group that supports the Electronic Frontier Foundation or the huge number of people who pay $100/month for cable and buy DVDs every other week?
I'd like to think that people are up in arms over the fact that "Steamboat Willie" is still covered by copyright, but the truth is that most people don't care, or even know, about the situation. If "we
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the problem with marijuana is that not only do a large proportion of people in this country not have any problem with attempting to enforce their stunted versions of morality upon the general population, but that those nanny-state proponents generally do not have the mental capacity to understand the actual issues involved, whether those issues are corporate welfare/pork sponsorship of Cannabis criminalization, the costs to our society for attempting the subsequent "War On Drugs", the incredible loss of revenue and resources due to our inability to legally grow Cannabis sativa, or other problems that result from these misguided policies, such as the suffering inflicted upon those whose use of marijuana (and while we're at it, we may as well include Papaver somniferum) whose greatly reduce the physical pains of dealing with chronic disease. I would hesitate to place marijuana in the same category as copyright infringment.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see NBC come crawling back to iTunes. NBC will miss the money they were making on iTunes. People don't schedule their lives around TV any more.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Informative)
They can't do that [fcc.gov]:
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Informative)
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I'm an engineer, not an IT person. Maybe you didn't realize it, but there's a lot of engineers here on Slashdot. It's not just IT geeks who run servers all day. Engineers don't work at banks or insurance companies, period. They work at tech companies. Places like Intel, Motorola, Cisco, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, NASA, etc. They generally do design work, or some other type of engineering work: validation, applications, etc. There's al
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
How is it that your HOA can restrict your means of obtaining this content for free, and you're OK with that, but NBC pulls one venue for obtaining this content for a fee, and you feel violated?
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a battle between how studios want to deliver their content and how consumers want to receive it. Before the web, there weren't options. Now there are, and the studios have to realize that this is a battle they will eventually lose. They could offer cheap, protected, legal access to their content, but instead they're daring users to circumvent the law. Aquinas noted centuries ago that human law cannot compel the obedience of conscience. It's not like they don't know they're going to lose--they just don't want to realize it. Screw 'em.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean like offering the shows for viewing on their website? Oh wait, they do that already. But people like Zonk have decided that that's not good enough for him, so instead he'll resort to pirating it. I seriously doubt Zonk was purchasing the show from iTMS when it was available anyways.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Interesting)
By the way, do you know Zonk personally, that you're in a position to call him a liar? Or are you just being a knee-jerk stuffed shirt DRM apologist and going on the attack?
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can not get television, cable or satellite TV where my house is situated in Alaska. I can barely get 1 Mb/s DSL. I have chosen to go the route of purchasing my shows off iTunes and watching them on my AppleTV. I do NOT want to watch the shows in a fucking browser window, in Flash or stutter-streamed, on my laptop! Those shows that I am interested in that I can't get legally from iTunes, I choose to get "illegally" from Bittorrent or from friends/coworkers who are able to record the shows. I put illegally in quotes because in this case it's truly a victimless crime. I want to pay for it, but they won't let me so I'm not taking revenue away from them. I am also not re-sharing it (any more than I can help since I don't seed with bittorrent) so I'm not keeping anyone else from buying it.
If the greedy fucks at NBC don't want my $2 per episode for Heroes and the Office, etc., I'll be glad to pirate them and won't feel the least bit guilty about it. I know that I don't have a "right" to watch the show, but if it's a show that interests me and everyone else is talking about it at work, I want to watch it - close to the time they watch it, not a season later when it comes out on DVD. The only reason I won't be able to watch it now is that they want to charge me more for content that is more restricted/broken than before and Apple is rightfully calling bullshit. Since I only download the shows to my iPod and AppleTV, restrictions aren't a big deal for me (it's the principal of the thing!), but I am not willing/can't afford to pay more than $2 for an episode and if they bundle crap I don't want, I won't buy it at all - I *will* pirate it. Sue me!
They are just proving over and over again that pirated goods are far superior to their DRM'd crap anyway. It's cheaper, often available sooner, in better quality and gives me the freedom to use it as I see fit. They are driving *me*, a grown adult and professional, their paying customer, away to piracy. I say good riddance to them. Stick to your guns Apple! I want to buy shows a-la-cart if I want and I am not willing to pay more! I will reward those studios that see the light. The rest can take their chances with draconian DRM, end-to-end Vista-like content controlled crap and the like. The deserve what they will get!
Any one have a contact email for these pricks?
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope you're lying about the work thing and are only ten years old, because to call your attitude "adolescent" does a disservice to normal teenagers.
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I have to assume here that you didn't move to, or remain in, Alaska because of the excellent quality of the communications services, so I have to wonder why it is that you're so pissed off about this. I can think of any number of advantages to living in Alaska that make good TV service pale in comparison, and I'm sure if you put your mind to it, that you can, too.
But seriously, you're going to t
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It doesn't matter how entitled you feel to the entertainment. The constitution grants the copyright holder the right to make the distribution decisions. No matter how much you want that entertainment, circumventing that right is an infringement.
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I make things for a living
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have any faith that this will get better because most people have cable (including me) and there really -isn't- another choice. (Satellite and cable are the same thing by different methods.)
In reality, the other options are:
A) Wait for it on DVD.
B) Watch it streamed from the site in a little 2" by 2" box.
C) Download it illegally and without commercials and in full quality, watchable wherever and whenever I like.
Gee... Wonder which most people would pick? If it wasn't for the waiting part, I'd cancel my cable service and buy the DVDs instead. I figure it'll cost the same per year (I only like a few shows) and it'll be better quality and more reliable. I just don't want to wait 6 months or a year and then try to talk to my friends about the eps... It doesn't work.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably watching it on DVD. Plenty of us realize that by pirating our entertainment, we essentially have cut out the ability for them to make more. Beyond that, lots of us also realize we aren't entitled to free entertainment, and frankly, it's not so important as to be a requirement.
In my opinion (here's where I become an asshole) it takes a particularly immature mind to believe that downloading commercially sold entertainment in an illegal fashion is somehow the morally superior alternative.
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But in all fairness, the way I read it he wasn't even claiming it to be the morally superior method of watching, just the most convenient.
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)
That makes no fucking sense whatsoever, especially for shows on NBC. I could see if you were talking about cable network shows like Rescue Me or Monk but you're talking about free OTA shows here. If "pirating" NBC shows is somehow affecting their sponsors, then DVR users are also pirates in your eyes or is that somehow different?
I have no sympathy for the networks losing money on this. They need to come up with less expensive shows (no one should be paid $1+ million an episode for ANY TV show).
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:4, Funny)
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Look, if I pay for something, I expect to own it and I expect that it will do whatever I tell it to do within its functionality range. Any produ
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D) Get an antenna and view NBC via OTA hi-def?
There are options here, and they aren't that tough if you are really don't want cable, yet you want to watch Heroes.
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Uh, watching it for free over-the-air?
Try and get on NBCUs and News Corps http://www.hulu.com/ [hulu.com] if you want to watch ad supported network shows online .
HULU is one of the biggest reasons NBC are dropping iTunes like a stone and they also don't want iIunes and Steve Jobs dominating the online video space .
Re:Your only alternative? (Score:4, Informative)
Record it (Score:3)
I watch NBC quite a bit, but not for any of the shows mentioned in this story. Last season I purchased a USB tuner stick and a copy of EyeTV. Forget watching low-res iTunes versions of the shows. I recorded them and watched them in full HD quality. Granted, each show after trimming out commercials to bring it down to about 44 minutes will barely fit on one single-layer DVD but my god they look gorgeous on a cinema display.
If I happened to miss recording one I could always either wait for it to rerun o
Nice editorializing (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nothing to see here (Score:2, Funny)
Well, I don't know about other shows (Score:3, Informative)
Use an Antenna (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Use an Antenna. It's called broadcast TV.
2) Go to a friends house. You do have friends right?
3) Go out to a public place that has Heroes on their TV.
4) Wait to buy the DVD's.
Most of these options don't even involve paying NBC.
Yes, a little hyperbole in my reply, but no more than "Guess what my only alternative will be".
Another alternative is to drop 'em alltogether. (Score:2)
Re:Use an Antenna (Score:5, Insightful)
2. I think your friends will get a little ticked off with the weekly vists.
3. HUH????
4. So I need to wait until the end of the season.
I think NBC is makeing a huge mistake.
1. More DRM on iTunes? People you BROADCAST IT OVER THE AIR. I make DRM free recordings of your shows on my computer NOW! They Torrents are out NOW. They are not coming from iTunes.
2. Flexible pricing? You mean jack up the pricing. Oh well. As I said I can get it for free now. I guess I will start recording more shows with my computer and buy less with iTunes.
Dumb...
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You have pretty shitty friends if they can't handle you for one hour a week. Or you're a pretty shitty friend. Either way.
Existing purchases... (Score:2, Interesting)
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I would hope that Apple is operating in a manner that ensures that their customers are able to make use of their purchases as long as the Apple service related to media distribution continues. I was under the impression that the issues with Google where that they were dismantling the infrastructure that supported their media offering and were therefore unable to honour their agreements with both their customers and the media producers. I would say that this shows that
don't worry - you will have your chance to PAY (Score:2, Interesting)
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Digital Rights Cancellation?
Draconian Restrictions (against our) Customers?
Derideo (mei) Rectum Carmen (-- I know its a poor attempt)
Risky (Score:2, Insightful)
Only option? I think not. (Score:2)
Too many middle-men (Score:2)
Only Alternative (Score:3, Insightful)
Buy DVD's?
Rent from NetFlix?
Watch it on your Xbox 360?
Or use that crazy thing called an "antenna"?
Yet another option (Score:5, Funny)
Failing that, at least spend more time surfing for porn.
Universal are smart and this is all they could do. (Score:5, Interesting)
Universal are in a losing situation by having their content in only one marketplace.
As much as I love Apple and their ethics, it was overdue. The only way that Universal can lose is if they fail to market the new service they have selling the content.
OP is a bit naive thinking he won't be able to buy Universal content any more!!
Rejection (Score:2)
Now, assuming I bothered to buy these things and not just do without or wait until they are out on DVD, those are some mixed offerings.
More restrictive DRM would have been bad and caused more issues for legitimate customers (but this is Slashdot and we know that already).
Flexible pricing could have been a good thing, though, assuming it wasn't "we want the ability to flex the price so most episo
Your only OTHER alternative (Score:2)
Still, if that's what it takes to see your favourite shows, that's what commitment is all about.
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Yes, it's so terrible to pay a little over £100 per year to be able to watch Heroes and other good quality TV without adverts or interruptions (because Heroes in the UK is on BBC and our license fees fund the BBC and their no-adverts content, in case people didn't know).
Now if only BBC could get the Formula 1 back on so we didn't have ad breaks in the middle
Alternative legal routes for BSG? (Score:2)
In a similar veign, with BSG going into its final year, what are us cable/satellite-free BSG fans to do?
Err, try again? (Score:4, Insightful)
Getting cable.
I'm broke, and I have CHOSEN to not get a job, so my only alternative is to steal? Rubbish.
I paid for iTunes because it gave me what I wanted (Score:5, Insightful)
1) I paid for a ton of NBC shows on itunes the last few seasons, literally spending hundreds of dollars. I did this because I liked having them in reasonably high def, commercial free, reasonably close to the time of initial broadcast and using a program I already was comfortable with little or no work on my part past the initial purchase.
2) I had planned to do it again.
3) Now I probably will either not watch the shows at all. The next most likely solution is to download a torrent.
Its not that there arn't other ways to watch it. Its that none of the other ways to watch it provide the right mix of convienence, quality and lack of interruption. Having the shows on itunes didn't give me exactly what I wanted, but it gave me enough that I was willing to pay for it. If I have to install another program(and its associated additional drm and god knows what else), or put up with ads, or put up with low quality broadcasts, or put up with having to watch it at a specific time, or put up with a cable provider/dvr, or wait 6-18 months for a DVD or any of that other stuff, then its just not worth the time or the money.
I want it on my computer, when its released, with minimal hassle and no interruption. For that service, I'm willing to pay. Otherwise, its not worth it.
No low-cost option left (Score:3, Insightful)
Watch it free on NBC's website? No, they filter IPs and only allow americans.
Buy it on the iTunes Store? Nope, we still don't have movies and TV shows in the Canadian store.
My only other options are either cable or satellite, and both are forcing us to pay for "packages" that include 200 channels we don't want to get the 10 channels we want.
Guess what's my other alternative?
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NOT WATCHING IT.
God damn I'm tired of these replies, last time I checked there wasn't an inalienable right to get every single TV show you wanted whenever you want it when you want it. So you can get it where you live? Well then consider $TVSHOW an opportunity cost for living where you do.
Buck up and stop whining about it.
Doctor Evil said it best (Score:5, Funny)
more restrictive DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
If Universal would win that battle, then WE ALL lose out. Remember, this is the same network that f*cked with its time schedule so shows ended at 8:31 and such to try and f*ck Tivo owners. That shows you just what they think about the viewer. I'm sure the new DRM ideas would have us in mind, as in how can we make this experience more painful for the content viewer.
This will just make it more likely that I won't watch NBC shows. I am personally tired of networks dictating what time and where I should be watching their content. That's so last century thinking. Yeah, you can go to NBC.com, if you don't mind being tethered to streaming content, which sucks if you're not on the net when you have time/want to watch a show.
Accuracy (Score:5, Informative)
In other words, this article can be summarized as "NBC, looking for some leverage in ongoing negotiations with Apple over iTunes, has called reporters to float the idea of pulling out of iTunes altogether."
Holy mealy-mouthed buzzwords (Score:4, Insightful)
Addiction much? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Seriously it's a TV show and that's it. It's a sad state to be in when missing a TV show causes such issues (I have seen it so much in real life, I missed this show or this sports event and people get VERY angry).
The bigger question is why are you so addicted to a show? Folks it's only a TV show
What's on NBC anyway? (Score:2)
Meh... (Score:3, Funny)
Hey, Apple, I'm in the UK and buying Heroes or BSG (assuming they were available on UKiTunes) as low-res, DRM-infested downloads would cost about the same as getting the shiny DVDs from Amazon - better quality (and only the DRM equivalent of a wet paper bag that is CSS).
If a series is worth paying money for, its worth waiting for the DVDs (and you'd probably want a whole season) so I don't really give a stuff.
Where iTunes might come in is if you have missed an episode but that doesn't really figure if you're not following it on broadcast anyway.
Does This Make Apple The Hero? (Score:3, Interesting)
I personally don't want to resort to means of dubious legality to watch the shows I like, so I simply won't be watching if seeing what I want becomes an unpalatable experience. I remember a number of years ago having a problem with my cable service, but once I threatened to cancel the service altogether, they quickly came around and fixed the problem. I suppose NBC Universal will have to learn this the hard way.
Here's what Apple says (Score:4, Informative)
"Apple® today announced that it will not be selling NBC television shows for the upcoming television season on its online iTunes® Store (www.itunes.com). The move follows NBC's decision to not renew its agreement with iTunes after Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99. ABC, CBS, FOX and The CW, along with more than 50 cable networks, are signed up to sell TV shows from their upcoming season on iTunes at $1.99 per episode."
Apple Drops NBC Universal (Score:3, Informative)
From Apple press release. [apple.com]
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How can you "steal" something the owner is already giving away for free en masse?
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re: iTunes/QT for Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I know iTunes and Windows Vista had some issues - but that's not really shocking, considering how many other things aren't quite Vista compatible.
Overall though, geez... Quicktime player has been used in Windows since version 3.1, as a de-facto standard for playing multimedia files off CD. It's not exactly something Apple just "slapped together to say they had a Windows version".
Safari for Windows? Nothing special there, but it's also a very first attempt at doing it for the platform, and it's FREE software too. As others pointed out, it's probably relased right now mainly to allow easier development for the iPhone from a Windows box, plus giving people the option to use the same browser they have on their Mac, if they so desire. Apple's not auto-deleting your copies of Firefox and IE 7 just because you installed it or anything, so why the big fuss?